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Question Life cycle costing of a passive house?
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26-01-2011 4:18pm#1
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Sorry, whilst your €1300sq m price may be correct, the 'conventional' price one is not - more like €750 sq m. Passive House costs 15% - 20% more than conventional, anedcotally. Whereas I know an A2 can be built for €1000 sq m. That's 30% less than your PH figure.beyondpassive wrote: »Cost 2 scenarios, €1200 per square meter conventional build, €1300 passive, Turnkey, mid to high range finishes.
Yes, I can see that in math, on paper, the energy saving's can be very considerable. But if you cannot finance the step to build it, 'spend money to save money' effectively, then it's fairly moot. And the bank's aren't going to help.beyondpassive wrote: »Work out the energy use for the bog standard house and the passive.
Project the cost of energy at 2.5% increase per year. Workout the cost of finance at 4%.
Kitchen ?beyondpassive wrote: »Add the cost of maintainance per annum and replacement of parts and finishes . i.e new kitchen at 15 years,
Like for like, no matter what house you build, so to include that as a 'cost' in a passive equation is silly.
That won't happen, in real life. Don't take my word for it, read thisbeyondpassive wrote: »Subtract the annual savings due to passivhaus from the mortgage payments. Work out how much faster you clear your mortgage.
You'll have a much bigger mortgage, for a start. And, with banks not only not giving money out generally, and giving a lot less when they do, the higher costs involved in PH, coupled with increases in interest rates generally for years to come, Passive building may become an aspiration for most, and practical only for the lucky few.Ode To The Motorist
“And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road”
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If thats turnkey, with mid to high end finishes, I'll have 2 please. I think we're comparing apples and oranges.Sorry, whilst your €1300sq m price may be correct, the 'conventional' price one is not - more like €750 sq m. Passive House costs 15% - 20% more than conventional, anedcotally. Whereas I know an A2 can be built for €1000 sq m. That's 30% less than your PH figure.
Agree, it depends on your viewpoint on just how resiliant our supply chains are. We will have a fuel shocks in the next decae. We all know too our pensions are virtually worthless and where European and Amerian banks to value the assets on their balance sheets at current values thay would be bankrupt. Your building a shelter for the future that is most likely.Yes, I can see that in math, on paper, the energy saving's can be very considerable. But if you cannot finance the step to build it, 'spend money to save money' effectively, then it's fairly moot. And the bank's aren't going to help.
This isn't a comparison its life cycle costing, anything in the house that needs fueling, replacing or maintainance has to be included in costs. Simples.Kitchen ? Like for like, no matter what house you build, so to include that as a 'cost' in a passive equation is silly.That won't happen, in real life. Don't take my word for it, read this
You'll have a much bigger mortgage, for a start. And, with banks not only not giving money out generally, and giving a lot less when they do, the higher costs involved in PH, coupled with increases in interest rates generally for years to come, Passive building may become an aspiration for most, and practical only for the lucky few.
So design a house 10% smaller and use space cleverly. Do you really need a games room and 4 bathrooms.But agree, go as far as you can towards passive.0 -
No we're not. I included a QS-supplied link in that thread iirc, which a full breakdown of A2 building costs, which came out, iirc at 48kW, at €1059/m2, including 0.8 windows -including VAT. House was erected 2nd week Aug 2010, and moved into just before Christmas 2010. It was 350m2, North County Dublin. Please forward all Purchase Orders by PMbeyondpassive wrote: »If thats turnkey, with mid to high end finishes, I'll have 2 please. I think we're comparing apples and oranges.
It's actually more straightforward than that: we will have future energy price shocks. But that still won't help you build for it, now. Banks aren't going to advance a cent based on hypothetical energy prices, down the line.........especially if you're struggling to get approved on existing costs, in the first place. You can only work with what's in front of you - the old We Are Where We Are approach, to rob a phrase from Kildare Street.........beyondpassive wrote: »Agree, it depends on your viewpoint on just how resiliant our supply chains are. We will have a fuel shocks in the next decae. We all know too our pensions are virtually worthless and where European and Amerian banks to value the assets on their balance sheets at current values thay would be bankrupt. Your building a shelter for the future that is most likely.beyondpassive wrote: »This isn't a comparison its life cycle costing, anything in the house that needs fueling, replacing or maintainance has to be included in costs. Simples.
No it doesn't - if you're comparing two systems, the common items don't count, as they cancel each other out.
I agree, smaller, better utilised space is the way forward. We have (collectively - myself included)lost the run of ourselves in recent years.beyondpassive wrote: »So design a house 10% smaller and use space cleverly. Do you really need a games room and 4 bathrooms.But agree, go as far as you can towards passive.Ode To The Motorist
“And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road”
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