Suggestion for when Fianna Fáil come canvassing ...

rozeboosje

I think it's pretty clear that one of the main problems with the way this country is being governed is that so much power is kept in the hands of what are, effectively, cabbals with loyalty divided along lines first drawn in the sand during the struggle for independence. That has now been shown to be not only completely anachronistic, but clearly to the detriment of the country as a whole. It really does take a special kind of "stupid" for any government to run the country into the ground as badly as the outgoing government has done. The circumstances in the international economy can only be blamed so much for what has happened here.

But if you look at the individuals who have run for FF in the past, and who have been elected to the Dáil in recent years, it's clear that many of them are decent enough people all the same or, if one wants to be cynical about such things, at least no worse than many other politicians; they may not all be bad. After all, as a politician, if you want to stand any chance of having a significant career in politics you need to align yourself with a political party that does play a significant role in the country, and sometimes that limits your options ...

That's why I'm suggesting that if you have a decent enough Fianna Fáil candiate running in your constituency, someone you would consider voting for if only he or she wasn't aligned with that party, well, tell them. Tell them that you will consider voting for them but ONLY if they publicly disassociate themselves from Fianna Fáil.

Just a thought

LeixlipRed

So they can immediately reassociate themselves following the election? The new Joe Behan, Mattie McGrath, Jackie Healy Rae, the list is endless.

rozeboosje

LeixlipRed wrote: »

So they can immediately reassociate themselves following the election? The new Joe Behan, Mattie McGrath, Jackie Healy Rae, the list is endless.

LOL - yeah, if you have *that* little trust in them as individuals I wouldn't even ask XD

Uriel.

Why though? You are essentially saying, "I'll vote for you if you are an independent" - therefore, you are voting for them on the basis of their personality likability and/or their work with/on local issues. Neither is a good reason to vote for someone.

I think this election, given what we have to choose from, people need to look at voting for parties rather than candidates. National issues should be the driving force for voters and not local bullcrap. Though I doubt until we get some political/governance reform that forces people to vote on a different (national) basis that this will change

d'Oracle

rozeboosje wrote: »

That's why I'm suggesting that if you have a decent enough Fianna Fáil candiate running in your constituency, someone you would consider voting for if only he or she wasn't aligned with that party, well, tell them. Tell them that you will consider voting for them but ONLY if they publicly disassociate themselves from Fianna Fáil.

Just a thought

I can't see what that would achieve.

May as well tell him he has to do the funky chicken on telly.
If you disagree with Fianna Fail, do not vote for them.

The reason they have had such continued success is cos of the candidate who you'd consider voting for. I had hoped that people would be looking a bit further above the door step by now.

rozeboosje

Uriel. wrote: »

Why though? You are essentially saying, "I'll vote for you if you are an independent" - therefore, you are voting for them on the basis of their personality likability and/or their work with/on local issues. Neither is a good reason to vote for someone.

I think this election, given what we have to choose from, people need to look at voting for parties rather than candidates. National issues should be the driving force for voters and not local bullcrap. Though I doubt until we get some political/governance reform that forces people to vote on a different (national) basis that this will change

I agree - a country cannot be run effectively by a gaggle of independents. But what if they re-aligned themselves with another political party?

rozeboosje

d'Oracle wrote: »

I can't see what that would achieve.

May as well tell him he has to do the funky chicken on telly.
If you disagree with Fianna Fail, do not vote for them.

The reason they have had such continued success is cos of the candidate who you'd consider voting for. I had hoped that people would be looking a bit further above the door step by now.

"do not vote for them."

Good advice, and I dare say in most constituencies there will be good alternative candidates from other parties anyway. I'm afraid I won't be voting at all. Not because I don't want to, but as a Dutch national I can't, even though I have been in Ireland since 1995.

Uriel.

rozeboosje wrote: »

I agree - a country cannot be run effectively by a gaggle of independents. But what if they re-aligned themselves with another political party?

After an election?

If a group of independents want to form a "party" then I think they need to act like any other party to be honest... announce their intention pre-election, announce their manifesto/policies and announce which candidates will form the group should they be elected.

Either do the above, run as true independents or else just align themselves with an existing party/movement (pre-election).

d'Oracle

rozeboosje wrote: »

"do not vote for them."

Good advice, and I dare say in most constituencies there will be good alternative candidates from other parties anyway. I'm afraid I won't be voting at all. Not because I don't want to, but as a Dutch national I can't, even though I have been in Ireland since 1995.

That is a shame.

rozeboosje

Uriel. wrote: »

Either do the above, run as true independents or else just align themselves with an existing party/movement (pre-election).

agreed

rozeboosje

d'Oracle wrote: »

That is a shame.

Yup.

Biggins

rozeboosje wrote: »

LOL - yeah, if you have *that* little trust in them as individuals I wouldn't even ask XD

I know of one person in Duleek, Co Meath that is a FF member.
As the person didn't get officially selected by the party for the area to run, that person is now going as an independent - but still a true party member.

There are various reasons why some FF members are hiding behind the "Independent" title - but it all revolves around tactics and to an extent, trying to fool the public till after election day.

Koyasan

rozeboosje wrote: »

agreed

+1
I'd worry about them playing "Bait and Switch" with party allegiance. In the end, I want some idea of who they would support as Taoiseach. I also want a national politician, not a local one, representing me in the Dail, so I may be a minority if Jackie Healy Rae types are to go by.

d'Oracle

Biggins wrote: »

There are various reasons why some FF members are hiding behind the "Independent" title - but it all revolves around tactics and to an extent, trying to fool the public till after election day.

I think we will see more of that tbh.
FF would be stupid to not notice the whole wave of sentiment for independants.

Capt'n Midnight

If you look at the caliber of people who left/were expelled from FF and than later rejoined or those in "Independent FF" who followed the party line you'll realise that leaving FF means NOTHING. You can get back in again anytime if you win a seat and aren't in a personnal vendetta with the current leader.

Disassociating from FF isn't burning your bridges in any way , in fact there are advantages like not having to share the free mailshot with a co-runner and keeping all of the €9,700 for getting a quarter of a quota or whateever it is.


TBH if they didn't stand and up and be counted before then they deserve to be still known as FFers, backbenchers have had many, many years to do this.

Unless they join another party (and even then it's doubtful) you have to consider them as guilty by association