Micheal Martin's Front Bench

outandabout

This will be the first tough decision facing Martin as he tries to rebuild Fianna Fail.

I suspect he'll want a mix of old and new with Eamonn O' Cuiv, Brian Lenihan, Conor Lenihan John Curran and Mary Hanafin surviving from the old guard.

New blood on the front bench in senior positions could include Darragh Calleary, Michael Kennedy and Niall Blaney.

The selection will be crucial as it could be the difference between TDs winning and losing seats.

The Volt

I suspect that the wider electorate doesn't give a rats. I hope they all perish in the next election and that the subsequent government holds an enquiry to uncover the mass wrongdoings of that horrible organization.

gimme5minutes

outandabout wrote: »

This will be the first tough decision facing Martin as he tries to rebuild Fianna Fail.

I suspect he'll want a mix of old and new with Eamonn O' Cuiv, Brian Lenihan, Conor Lenihan John Curran and Mary Hanafin surviving from the old guard.

New blood on the front bench in senior positions could include Darragh Calleary, Michael Kennedy and Niall Blaney.

The selection will be crucial as it could be the difference between TDs winning and losing seats.

Who gives a **** what the front bench of this useless, corrupt and incompetent organization is anymore. They will be irrelevant after the election.

outandabout

Fianna Fail, whether you like them or loathe them, won't go away.

They will be in opposition but if a Labour/Fine Gael government falls apart, Fianna Fail could be back in power sooner rather than later.

scientific1982

Its irrelevant. They wont be in power and no one cares.

ednwireland

heres hoping that they havent enough td's to form a front bench

Sir Oxman

Never mind their front bench, the fact they are on the verge of electing a leader who has collective cabinet responsibility for the destruction of the country speaks volumes.

Martin and Hanafin never said stop once during Ahern, Cowen, McCreevey and Harney's misrule at cabinet level.

Hans Christian Lenihan is the frontman of the biggest heist in world history and O Cuiv is the man who rallied the troops in DonegalSW by saying FF were on the hitlist after the Catholic church were 'targetted', a bumbling idiot yearning for his grandfathers dream of comely maidens dancing at the crossroads.

The Volt

Fianna Fáil elect a failed Minister who supported disastrous financial policies at cabinet and in the Dáil. Politics as usual so

91011

outandabout wrote: »

Fianna Fail, whether you like them or loathe them, won't go away.

They will be in opposition but if a Labour/Fine Gael government falls apart, Fianna Fail could be back in power sooner rather than later.

Should that not read "When"

With the way they've squabbled over the past few weeks, I'd give them 18 months max.

And I think the final shalke up will be a lot different to current thinking.

FG will probably get about 65 - 70 seats (possibly north of 70 ona good day)
FF will get 46 - 50 (assuming a new leader bounce)
Lab will get 30 - 35 (possibly less if there's no substance to their shouting)
SF will get a lot less than they think at less than 10
Greens 3/4
Independents 10ish

There may yet be a Green / Independents / FG outcome. - IMO, that would be far better than Lab / FG.

Sir Oxman

Voltwad wrote: »

Fianna Fáil elect a failed Minister who supported disastrous financial policies at cabinet and in the Dáil. Politics as usual so

When quizzed over his achievments in 13yrs? of cabinet participation at a press conference last week, Martin stuttered about the smoking ban.
Says it all.
However, if you want to look like your doing something but keep an arms length from any issue, Martin's the man - Minister for Commissioning Reports.

Balmed Out

impossible to guess as there will no doubt be a few high profile names who wont get re-elected. Ive always been a fine gael voter but i do hope fianna fail get their ass in gear to make sure they are a bigger voice on the opposition then sinn fein otherwise our international reputation will take another big hit.

Balmed Out

Agree with 91011 in relation to a fine gael / independants / greens been better and far more stable then with labour. A labour fine gael coalition always strikes me as wrong when they come from such different ideologies. One would hope they could work together as theyve had a long time to think about it but you would have to worry about them imploding.

raymon

91011 wrote: »

Should that not read "When"

With the way they've squabbled over the past few weeks, I'd give them 18 months max.

And I think the final shalke up will be a lot different to current thinking.

FG will probably get about 65 - 70 seats (possibly north of 70 ona good day)
FF will get 46 - 50 (assuming a new leader bounce)
Lab will get 30 - 35 (possibly less if there's no substance to their shouting)
SF will get a lot less than they think at less than 10
Greens 3/4
Independents 10ish

There may yet be a Green / Independents / FG outcome. - IMO, that would be far better than Lab / FG.

I don't think.your numbers add up . FF are on 8-12% depending on which poll you believe. Even the shinners are more popular. Where are you getting 46 -50 seats from. I really hope FF crawl under a rock and hide this one out.

Dymo

raymon wrote: »

I don't think.your numbers add up . FF are on 8-12% depending on which poll you believe. Even the shinners are more popular. Where are you getting 46 -50 seats from. I really hope FF crawl under a rock and hide this one out.

I don't read much into the polls results, TD's are elected by there constituencys, in Kilkenny are FF are poling at 30%.And there are guaranteed at least 2 FF TD'd will get in out of there now 3. I'd like to see FF get the hammering they deserve but I just can't see it happening and the 45-50 seats is more realistic

Balmed Out

A majority of elderly people that have always voted ff will still do so. Well of the ones Ive talked to anyhow.

Lapin

Regardless of who he picks for his front bench, Micheál Martin will have the distinction of being the first leader of Fianna Fáil never to serve as Taoiseach.

bhovaspack

91011 wrote: »

There may yet be a Green / Independents / FG outcome. - IMO, that would be far better than Lab / FG.

Yes please! First time I've heard mention of this possibility, probably due to anger at the idea of failed greens getting back onto their ministerial thrones. But it would be eminently preferable to the alternative.

T runner

Voltwad wrote: »

Fianna Fáil elect a failed Minister who supported disastrous financial policies at cabinet and in the Dáil. Politics as usual so

Remember the leader of Fine Gael supported very similar policies in their 2007 manisfesto, predicting a 4.5 % growth rate which could only be sustained by the property boom. FF will be punished. Make sure the others are asked the hard questions too.

Oh_Noes

bhovaspack wrote: »

Yes please! First time I've heard mention of this possibility, probably due to anger at the idea of failed greens getting back onto their ministerial thrones. But it would be eminently preferable to the alternative.

FF/LAB/SF would be better than watching big brother.

Mr.Micro

RTE virtual blanket coverage of FF leadership as if it is the only party in the country. Sneery gets the nod. I hope the voters remember come the election that he is just as culpable as Biffo and Lenny for the mess we are in, sitting at the cabinet table all these years. Snake in the grass Lenny got a kick back, too bad he called it wrong last week just as he has with all his decisions at the DoF.

hallelujajordan

raymon wrote: »

I don't think.your numbers add up . FF are on 8-12% depending on which poll you believe. Even the shinners are more popular. Where are you getting 46 -50 seats from. I really hope FF crawl under a rock and hide this one out.

His numbers dont add up if a) the election is were held last weekend and b) the poll numbers were accurate. .

I presume he believes (as do I) that FF will bounce back ahead of election day when the real debates begin and when the left wings lack of realistic policies are exposed.

Back on-topic . . I would like to see Lenihan remain on in the Finance portfolio . . I see Hanafin as deputy leader, but other than those two, I would do a complete clear out and bring in some fresh new blood.

Mr.Micro

hallelujajordan wrote: »

His numbers dont add up if a) the election is were held last weekend and b) the poll numbers were accurate. .

I presume he believes (as do I) that FF will bounce back ahead of election day when the real debates begin and when the left wings lack of realistic policies are exposed.

Back on-topic . . I would like to see Lenihan remain on in the Finance portfolio . . I see Hanafin as deputy leader, but other than those two, I would do a complete clear out and bring in some fresh new blood.

You talk of lack of policies from the left wing.......I presume FF had policies at the last election? Ruin the country the biggest. I am sure the electorate will be happy to trust FF again with our economy that is after it looks after the banks, developers, cronies etc oh did I mention the Party first. I think you may find many voters will vote any party but FF.


Keep Lenny who back stabbed Biffo, effected a leadership challenge then reneged, pretened he did nothing, just like all the terrible decisions he made at the DoF. He is a real asset.

goat2

i am glad they have elected their new leader, he is the best pick, listning to him this evening, he has made an impression on me, hope he keep his promises, if they get in

SB-08

I bet he will promote quite a number of young people like Dara Calerey and Michael McGrath to front bench. I also think Conor Lenihan will be promoted for his OTT attacks on Cowen during last week. Perhaps he will take over from his brother in Finance? On that subject it will be interesting Lenny stays and if Martin keeps him in Finance. Bet Hanifan becomes Deputy Leader to ensure she has a better chance of being re-elected in Dun L.

hallelujajordan

Mr.Micro wrote: »

You talk of lack of policies from the left wing.......I presume FF had policies at the last election? Ruin the country the biggest. I am sure the electorate will be happy to trust FF again with our economy that is after it looks after the banks, developers, cronies etc oh did I mention the Party first. I think you may find many voters will vote any party but FF.

. . and I think you may find you are wrong. . . i don't think the ABFF vote will manifest as strongly as you imagine when people take a closer look at the alternatives . . and if you want to talk 2007 policies, why dont you take out the manifestos from FG and FF and see if you can spot the difference . .

Keep Lenny who back stabbed Biffo, effected a leadership challenge then reneged, pretened he did nothing, just like all the terrible decisions he made at the DoF. He is a real asset.

I would keep Lenihan because he has spent the last three years in the heart of the countries problems. Whether or not you agree with his actions or policies, no-one will understand the economic situation better than he does. I also think that regardless of today's vote Lenihan will remain Martin's biggest rival . . Friends close, enemies closer !

later12

Dymo wrote: »

I don't read much into the polls results, TD's are elected by there constituencys, in Kilkenny are FF are poling at 30%.And there are guaranteed at least 2 FF TD'd will get in out of there now 3. I'd like to see FF get the hammering they deserve but I just can't see it happening and the 45-50 seats is more realistic

I think you're quite correct. FF pulled back from electoral annihilation last weekend and again today, Martin is a good choice. Lenihan would have been a better alternative twelve months ago, today he would be a much less attractive poster prospect for many TDs.

I still think you might be too optimistic with the 45-50 seats, but I don't think you're far off. Barring a huge upset between now and the election, it will be in the region of 40, certainly.

goat2

i do hope it will be on what they can do to improve our country, we need the best now to get things going

Mr.Micro

hallelujajordan wrote: »

. . and I think you may find you are wrong. . . i don't think the ABFF vote will manifest as strongly as you imagine when people take a closer look at the alternatives . . and if you want to talk 2007 policies, why dont you take out the manifestos from FG and FF and see if you can spot the difference . .



I would keep Lenihan because he has spent the last three years in the heart of the countries problems. Whether or not you agree with his actions or policies, no-one will understand the economic situation better than he does. I also think that regardless of today's vote Lenihan will remain Martin's biggest rival . . Friends close, enemies closer !

I think voters will settle for competency and economic stability, equality and reduction of debt and stop the forced emigration of our young people. None of the above possible from FF and after 13 years in power a change would be the best thing for the country instead of hellbent gambling with our country, and lost that is associated with FF.

CoalBucket

outandabout wrote: »

Fianna Fail, whether you like them or loathe them, won't go away.

They will be in opposition but if a Labour/Fine Gael government falls apart, Fianna Fail could be back in power sooner rather than later.

You left out the evil laugh after that statement. Muah haha haha

Mr.Micro

later10 wrote: »

Martin is a good choice.

If he is so good it took 2 goes to get him as leader and he is associated with all that is wrong with FF. Best of a bad lot is the reality, it would have been Lenny but he shot himself in the foot trying to be too clever so vacuous Martin will head up the Fianna Failures.

goat2

Mr.Micro wrote: »

If he is so good it took 2 goes to get him as leader and he is associated with all that is wrong with FF. Best of a bad lot is the reality, it would have been Lenny but he shot himself in the foot trying to be too clever so vacuous Martin will head up the Fianna Failures.

he will only do good, he was not the minister for finance nor tiosach when our country was driven into the gutter, i do hope he goes after those who owe the banks big time, i would have trust in him, not a man to do underhanded, will not be bought i hope

Mr.Micro

goat2 wrote: »

he will only do good, he was not the minister for finance nor tiosach when our country was driven into the gutter, i do hope he goes after those who owe the banks big time, i would have trust in him, not a man to do underhanded, will not be bought i hope

He sat at the cabinet table all these years.....he is not dumb and deaf or did not see what was going on. The country needs a change fresh ideas and FF are not the ones to do it. A long spell in opposition is the best remedy for FF and more importantly the country.

kippy

Honestly, I do give a rats about this.
I am very worried that those who are here now knocking the crap outta FF and hoping that they "burn in hell" etc, will be on here this time next year saying the same about whatever government are in place at the time.
The very facts of matter are that whatever government gets formed will have some exceptionally difficult cuts/taxes/relative hardship to put on the people. People wont like this and its very plausible to think that, as an electorate we have short memories, we'll end up bringing down that government and what other choices do we have?
The reality is we have very limited choices right not of who/what we elect and the eventual powers of those elected.
Martins front bench I would think will compose of younger FF members and you will see a complete "rebranding" of FF in the next few months to a "younger" party - they dont have much choice I suppose.

Balmed Out

Mr.Micro wrote: »

If he is so good it took 2 goes to get him as leader and he is associated with all that is wrong with FF. Best of a bad lot is the reality, it would have been Lenny but he shot himself in the foot trying to be too clever so vacuous Martin will head up the Fianna Failures.

Just browsing internet and a lot of people seem to now predict somewhat of a bounce for fianna fail with the change of leader. Im sure lots of us would have predicted this to happen. Begs the question as to how stupid the decision was of the majority of fianna fail td's not to replace cowen last week.

thetonynator

Dymo wrote: »

I don't read much into the polls results, TD's are elected by there constituencys, in Kilkenny are FF are poling at 30%.And there are guaranteed at least 2 FF TD'd will get in out of there now 3. I'd like to see FF get the hammering they deserve but I just can't see it happening and the 45-50 seats is more realistic

24% actually going by the latest poll, in kilkenny/Carlow. Unfortunately it means we have one of the highest amount of brain dead people in kilkenny and carlow! One electoral area clocked in at over 40%. However, the 14% is a big drop from the 47% they got in 07, and they will struggle to hold on to 2 seats, definitely won't hold 3.

Ironic thing was, when some older people were asked what party they would give their 1st preference to, they said not ff. But when asked who they would give it to, they said john mcguinness or bobby aylward . .:rolleyes:

Leslie91

If/when those FF muthaeffers ever get back into Govt (hopefully many years away), I expect there will be a different leader nevermind a fresh bench. F the lot of em.

RI (no) P - Hanafin, Roche, Lenihans X 2, Cowen, Coughlan, Curran etc.

CoalBucket

Balmed Out wrote: »

Just browsing internet and a lot of people seem to now predict somewhat of a bounce for fianna fail with the change of leader. Im sure lots of us would have predicted this to happen. Begs the question as to how stupid the decision was of the majority of fianna fail td's not to replace cowen last week.

No it begs the question of how stupid the decision of the blind FF sheep are to vote for those shower again. He sat at the cabinet table and formed policy with Bertie, Cowan et al for years that led the country into the mess it's in at the moment.

Martin taking over FF doesn't change the 450,000 people unemployed.
Martin taking over FF doesn't change the IMF/EU bailout.
Martin taking over FF doesn't change the bank bailout with tax payers money.
Martin taking over FF doesn't change the shambles of health system.
Martin taking over FF doesn't change the 100,000 people who have been and will be forced to emigrate.

The only bounce they will receive is from FF voters who probably wouldn't have turned up on election day.

For the rest of the country who don't vote in some kind of twisted party allegiance it won't matter.

MOC1972

ITS a pity me and all the other people who have left the country because of them may not be able to vote them under a rock or banish them altogether:D

DJCR

CoalBucket wrote: »

No it begs the question of how stupid the decision of the blind FF sheep are to vote for those shower again. He sat at the cabinet table and formed policy with Bertie, Cowan et al for years that led the country into the mess it's in at the moment.

Martin taking over FF doesn't change the 450,000 people unemployed.
Martin taking over FF doesn't change the IMF/EU bailout.
Martin taking over FF doesn't change the bank bailout with tax payers money.
Martin taking over FF doesn't change the shambles of health system.
Martin taking over FF doesn't change the 100,000 people who have been and will be forced to emigrate.

The only bounce they will receive is from FF voters who probably wouldn't have turned up on election day.

For the rest of the country who don't vote in some kind of twisted party allegiance it won't matter.

Well I think that lays it out nicely for Kenny and Co. .......... see you in 4 years time to discuss how he gets on !!!

ISAW

gimme5minutes wrote: »

Who gives a **** what the front bench of this useless, corrupt and incompetent organization is anymore. They will be irrelevant after the election.

I'm getting a bit fed up of off topic anti FF comments. the subject title is about a FF front bench. If you want to make anti FF comments start another thread.

I apply the same about FG leadership battles or Labour or anyone else. I "who cares" is a pointless comment to supply to a discussion!

imme

Michael Kennedy, 'new blood' you say OP, well hardly 'young blood' anyway.

Yeah I'm sure he'll go for a mix of former ministers and newer deputies.

sceptre

ISAW wrote: »

the subject title is about a FF front bench. If you want to make anti FF comments start another thread.

I apply the same about FG leadership battles or Labour or anyone else. I "who cares" is a pointless comment to supply to a discussion!

That's a pretty valid point. The thread title is pretty obvious, the opening post is pretty clear on where it's going. The question when adding a post to a discussion (any discussion) is "Does this post add anything useful?" While silly twitter-style oneliners are even below that when it comes to usefulness, if forum members want to contribute to a discussion, actually contribute. There's a thread on Feedback on matters like this which may be of interest to some, I suggest having a look.

(on-topic please folks - and posts as useful and pertinent as you can make them - don't continue this side-discussion here please)

CoalBucket

DJCR wrote: »

Well I think that lays it out nicely for Kenny and Co. .......... see you in 4 years time to discuss how he gets on !!!

FF have clearly shown they are incapable of running the country, no let me rephrase that, they have clearly shown they can destroy the country and the future of a generation.

The FF tactic of fear is out again. Don't trust those other lot, trust us.

How stupid do FF think people are. The only stupid people are those who fall for their bulls**t.

What kind of people do they think would actually vote for a party that took over the governance of a country that had a balanced budget and in 13 years surrender the economy and future of the country to the IMF and EU to bailout their galway tent developer cronies and bank bond holders.

Would it be the same kind of people who would vote for a party that went into government when the previous government was creating 1000 jobs a week and after 13 years had 450,000 people unemployed and had the nations children emigrating at a rate of 2000 a week.

Maybe we'll see how Enda and Co will get on with the trail of destruction left behind by the FF party. The fact that FF have destroyed the economy has hamstrung the next administration but that shouldn't prevent people from giving a new government a chance rather than voting for the corrupt and inept government who brought the country to this point.

Whatever government is voted in by the people I just hope it doesn't involve FF or Martin and his new bench of inept crownies.

EDIT: Altered to relate it to the title thread

southsiderosie

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Back on-topic . . I would like to see Lenihan remain on in the Finance portfolio . . I see Hanafin as deputy leader, but other than those two, I would do a complete clear out and bring in some fresh new blood.

hallelujajordan wrote: »

I would keep Lenihan because he has spent the last three years in the heart of the countries problems. Whether or not you agree with his actions or policies, no-one will understand the economic situation better than he does. I also think that regardless of today's vote Lenihan will remain Martin's biggest rival . . Friends close, enemies closer !

I have to say, I find this pretty shocking.

Lenihan's budgets were pure fiction. He was at the table when the bank guarantee was issued. He repeatedly tried to suggest that Ireland was turning a corner. He had the neck to tell the country that everything was fine even when he damn well knew that the IMF was on the way (that was particularly disgraceful - does he not realize that Irish people have access to non-Irish media)?

Brian Lenihan was voted the worst finance minister in Europe two years in a row. Given the finances of Latvia, Spain, Portugal, Italy and Greece, that is an amazing accomplishment.

Investors know he is full of ****.

Economists know he is full of ****.

The media knows he is full of ****.

Why do so many Irish voters not realize this?

I am not an Irish citizen and I will not be voting in the upcoming general election. But by any objective standards, Brian Lenihan should not be allowed anywhere near the Finance portfolio.

liammur

outandabout wrote: »

This will be the first tough decision facing Martin as he tries to rebuild Fianna Fail.

I suspect he'll want a mix of old and new with Eamonn O' Cuiv, Brian Lenihan, Conor Lenihan John Curran and Mary Hanafin surviving from the old guard.

New blood on the front bench in senior positions could include Darragh Calleary, Michael Kennedy and Niall Blaney.

The selection will be crucial as it could be the difference between TDs winning and losing seats.

My advice would be pick school kids from primary school. They can't be as incompetent as the names above.

ISAW

CoalBucket wrote: »

FF have clearly shown they are incapable of running the country, no let me rephrase that, they have clearly shown they can destroy the country and the future of a generation.

The FF tactic of fear is out again. Don't trust those other lot, trust us.

How stupid do FF think people are. The only stupid people are those who fall for their bulls**t.

What kind of people do they think would actually vote for a party that took over the governance of a country that had a balanced budget and in 13 years surrender the economy and future of the country to the IMF and EU to bailout their galway tent developer cronies and bank bond holders.

Would it be the same kind of people who would vote for a party that went into government when the previous government was creating 1000 jobs a week and after 13 years had 450,000 people unemployed and had the nations children emigrating at a rate of 2000 a week.

Maybe we'll see how Enda and Co will get on with the trail of destruction left behind by the FF party. The fact that FF have destroyed the economy has hamstrung the next administration but that shouldn't prevent people from giving a new government a chance rather than voting for the corrupt and inept government who brought the country to this point.

Whatever government is voted in by the people I just hope it doesn't involve FF or Martin and his new bench of inept crownies.



EDIT: Altered to relate it to the title thread

How is any of the above in any way relevant to the Michael Martin's selection of his front bench?

ISAW

MOC1972 wrote: »

ITS a pity me and all the other people who have left the country because of them may not be able to vote them under a rock or banish them altogether:D

Now is that relevant to Michael martins selection of his front bench?

ISAW

DJCR wrote: »

Well I think that lays it out nicely for Kenny and Co. .......... see you in 4 years time to discuss how he gets on !!!

How is what Kenny does in government in any way relevant to Michael martins selection of his front bench?

ISAW

liammur wrote: »

My advice would be pick school kids from primary school. They can't be as incompetent as the names above.

in what way are Darragh Calleary, Michael Kennedy and Niall Blaney incompetent?

deise go deo

ISAW wrote: »

in what way are Darragh Calleary, Michael Kennedy and Niall Blaney incompetent?

They joined FF;)

Noreen1

I suspect that Michael Martin will want to introduce as much new blood as possible, as an electioneering tactic.

Hopefully, the party faithful may be astute enough to see it for the cynical tactic that it would be, but I'm very much afraid that they might not!:(