Six Questions for Secular Voters

Michael Nugent

Atheist Ireland is writing to all election candidates asking their views on six questions that are central to building a rational, ethical society with a secular State that does not support any religion. We will publish the candidates’ replies before the election.

We also ask voters to ask their local candidates these six questions. Most of us will vote based on economic policies or party allegiance. If several candidates share your views on these issues, please choose the candidate that most supports a rational, ethical, secular Ireland. Ask them:

1. Will you work to reform the education system so that all children in your constituency can access publicly-funded schools which have no religious ethos?
2. Would you support a referendum to remove religious references from the Constitution, including the religious oath for the President and Judges?
3. Do you believe that blasphemy should be a criminal offence?
4. Would you support legislation to prevent state-funded hospitals from having a religious ethos that makes medical decisions based on religious beliefs?
5. Would you vote to ensure that religious bodies are treated the same as other organisations under equality and employment legislation?
6. Do you believe that religions, like other organisations, should have to pay their fair share of tax on income that is not used to fund charitable activities?

In the last Census, over a quarter of a million people either ticked the ‘No Religion’ box (186,000), or didn’t answer the question (70,000), or wrote in an answer that isn’t a religion (over 2,000). With the dramatic changes in Irish society since the last Census, we believe the figure today is much higher.

We also hope that many religious Irish people will want to practice their faith without seeking support from the State that discriminates against other citizens. Please vote to support a secular Ireland, where every citizen has the right to their religious beliefs, and where the State remains neutral on these beliefs.

Dan133269

I think the Labour Party would be the most secular of the parliamentary parties we have in this country.

Michael Nugent wrote: »

, or wrote in an answer that isn’t a religion (over 2,000).

What did people write? Have people put down Star Wars in the past or am I getting mixed up?

Dev 17

Dan133269 wrote: »

What did people write? Have people put down Star Wars in the past or am I getting mixed up?

There are a small number of people who insist on writing "atheist/atheism/agnosticism" in the other religion box.

Dades

What is the expected rate of reply?

It's very difficult to get an answer from a politician at the best of times, nevermind when there's a chance they might alienate a large segment of their public. It's a noble idea, and I really hope you get a good response, though given the opt-out nature of the question I doubt it.

Will await with interest.

Michael Nugent

You may be right, Dades - there may be a low rate of reply. We will see.

That increases the importance of people also asking the questions to their own candidates in their own constituencies, either when the candidate calls to the door or else by constituents proactively contacting the candidates and asking them the questions.

dcmraad

Michael Nugent wrote: »

Atheist Ireland is writing to all election candidates asking their views on six questions that are central to building a rational, ethical society with a secular State that does not support any religion. We will publish the candidates’ replies before the election.

We also ask voters to ask their local candidates these six questions. Most of us will vote based on economic policies or party allegiance. If several candidates share your views on these issues, please choose the candidate that most supports a rational, ethical, secular Ireland. Ask them:

1. Will you work to reform the education system so that all children in your constituency can access publicly-funded schools which have no religious ethos?
2. Would you support a referendum to remove religious references from the Constitution, including the religious oath for the President and Judges?
3. Do you believe that blasphemy should be a criminal offence?
4. Would you support legislation to prevent state-funded hospitals from having a religious ethos that makes medical decisions based on religious beliefs?
5. Would you vote to ensure that religious bodies are treated the same as other organisations under equality and employment legislation?
6. Do you believe that religions, like other organisations, should have to pay their fair share of tax on income that is not used to fund charitable activities?

In the last Census, over a quarter of a million people either ticked the ‘No Religion’ box (186,000), or didn’t answer the question (70,000), or wrote in an answer that isn’t a religion (over 2,000). With the dramatic changes in Irish society since the last Census, we believe the figure today is much higher.

We also hope that many religious Irish people will want to practice their faith without seeking support from the State that discriminates against other citizens. Please vote to support a secular Ireland, where every citizen has the right to their religious beliefs, and where the State remains neutral on these beliefs.

I think it is a good idea, I would like to see the politics and irish economy forum do a similar list relevant to their issues.

However knowing that politicians are devious lying bastards, the only outcome here will be to delay them at your door, which in turn will delay their canvassing schedule.

We should organise boards members to ask specific questions from opposite ends of the spectrum, and then compare the answers given.

Dades

dcmraad wrote: »

We should organise boards members to ask specific questions from opposite ends of the spectrum, and then compare the answers given.

That would actually be a useful exercise.

I'm planning to ask my (economy related) questions in such as way as they can't tell which way I'm leaning - or even lead them astray.

Galvasean

I nominate Robin.

mewso

Dades wrote: »

I'm planning to ask my (economy related) questions in such as way as they can't tell which way I'm leaning - or even lead them astray.

I was toying with a trick question for them on the door:- "How important are local issues to you?". I'd give them say 60 seconds of waffle before telling them I think it's a disgrace that national representatives spend so much time sorting out pot-holes.

amacachi

Dades wrote: »

What is the expected rate of reply?

It's very difficult to get an answer from a politician at the best of times, nevermind when there's a chance they might alienate a large segment of their public. It's a noble idea, and I really hope you get a good response, though given the opt-out nature of the question I doubt it.

Will await with interest.

One of my local TDs replied to me under an hour after I emailed him, gave me a mobile number to call him directly if I wanted to discuss the matter further.

Pushtrak

amacachi wrote: »

One of my local TDs replied to me under an hour after I emailed him, gave me a mobile number to call him directly if I wanted to discuss the matter further.

You asked the questions from the opening post? Well, come on, then, what did he/she say? Was it an evasion?

amacachi

Pushtrak wrote: »

You asked the questions from the opening post? Well, come on, then, what did he/she say? Was it an evasion?

Sorry, I just meant generally they're quick to get back in contact etc. He was quite helpful in my case, though probably not how he intended to be so. :pac:

ChocolateSauce

I have sent those questions to each major candidate in my Dublin mid-west constituency. No reply yet, but it's only been 24 hours.

Pygmalion

Michael Nugent wrote: »

2. Would you support a referendum to remove religious references from the Constitution, including the religious oath for the President and Judges?
3. Do you believe that blasphemy should be a criminal offence?

Keep in mind that (3) isn't quite as straight-forward as it sounds, and more likely should be included in (2).
The constitution does require a law against blasphemy AFAIR, so as much as we can complain about the introduction of the law, it was actually necessary in a sense, and a referendum will be needed to remove it.

ShooterSF

Pygmalion wrote: »

Keep in mind that (3) isn't quite as straight-forward as it sounds, and more likely should be included in (2).
The constitution does require a law against blasphemy AFAIR, so as much as we can complain about the introduction of the law, it was actually necessary in a sense, and a referendum will be needed to remove it.

Technically you could support a referendum and think blasphemy should be criminal offence. It would require a fundementalistic belief along with an open mind to societal reform...

Michael Nugent

Bertie Ahern called canvassing today, and I asked him most of these questions...

Bertie Ahern says Catholic Church should be taxed on non-charitable income

eblistic

Michael Nugent wrote: »

Bertie Ahern called canvassing today, and I asked him most of these questions...

Bertie Ahern says Catholic Church should be taxed on non-charitable income

Don't suppose you brought up any of his previous remarks about aggressive secularists and the like?

panda100

Isn't it a bit of a waste asking these questions to wannabee TD's that are members of Fianna Fail and Fine Gael?
While TD's personal response may be different to the traditional party line, both parties have a strong Catholic heritage.
Fine Gael MEP's sit with the Christian democrats in the European Parliament, hardly a statement of progressive secularism. Fianna Fail's cosy relationship with the RC church doesn't seem to be changing anytime soon.

Labour, United Left Alliance and some independents really are the only options for secular voters as far as I can see.

Waking-Dreams

panda100 wrote: »

While TD's personal response may be different to the traditional party line, both parties have a strong Catholic heritage.

This country has a strong Catholic heritage but that unquestionable “loyalty” is starting to significantly drop, innit? Political parties tend to get behind the issues that will get them elected and re-elected, right? So if there is a noticeable shift towards the desire for a more secular society from the electorate, any politician would be mad to ignore it because they could be potentially alienating themselves from the people who have the power to put them in office. I would conjecture they have previously supported the Catholic church in the past because, for a long time, the electorate was predominantly Catholic but don't think that politicians can't change their spots if they think it will win them seats.

panda100

Waking-Dreams wrote: »

This country has a strong Catholic heritage but that unquestionable “loyalty” is starting to significantly drop, innit? Political parties tend to get behind the issues that will get them elected and re-elected, right? So if there is a noticeable shift towards the desire for a more secular society from the electorate, any politician would be mad to ignore it because they could be potentially alienating themselves from the people who have the power to put them in office. I would conjecture they have previously supported the Catholic church in the past because, for a long time, the electorate was predominantly Catholic but don't think that politicians can't change their spots if they think it will win them seats.

That is one way of looking at it I guess.

As far as Im concerned though, FF and FG are two parties very content in keeping the statu quo and propping up the establishment. Neither have a strong tradition of challenging the hierarchy of the RC church and the dominance it has over education and health in this country. I will vote for politicians who stick to their principles and push for progression and change in Irish society, not those who wait and then make weak promises to appeal to the popular masses.

Michael Nugent

panda100 wrote: »

Isn't it a bit of a waste asking these questions to wannabee TD's that are members of Fianna Fail and Fine Gael?
While TD's personal response may be different to the traditional party line, both parties have a strong Catholic heritage.
Fine Gael MEP's sit with the Christian democrats in the European Parliament, hardly a statement of progressive secularism. Fianna Fail's cosy relationship with the RC church doesn't seem to be changing anytime soon.

Labour, United Left Alliance and some independents really are the only options for secular voters as far as I can see.

Realistically, I suspect that in this election most people will prioritise economic policies over secular policies, and that will shape the type of party or candidate they vote for. But even within this economic filter, voters will have a choice between candidates who are closer or further away from secular values. In the long run, having more secular TDs within FG and FF will be helpful.

Waking-Dreams

panda100 wrote: »

That is one way of looking at it I guess.

As far as Im concerned though, FF and FG are two parties very content in keeping the statu quo and propping up the establishment. Neither have a strong tradition of challenging the hierarchy of the RC church and the dominance it has over education and health in this country. I will vote for politicians who stick to their principles and push for progression and change in Irish society, not those who wait and then make weak promises to appeal to the popular masses.

I don't disagree but unfortunately, politics is often a game where appealing to the masses takes priority. But hey, the masses aren't always wrong either. Maybe the masses will one day want secular education (which doesn't discriminate agaisnt any religious beliefs, be they Muslim, Hindu, Catholic, Protestant, etc.), in which case, what are either party going to do, ignore them?

It's up to the electorate to speak up and tell their politicians what matters to them and for the politicians to then keep the electorate apprised of where they stand on said issues.

Michael Nugent

We're starting to get replies back from candidates now.

As we get them, we are publishing them on our website.

You can read the replies we have got so far here.

Dades

^^ In case anyone gets as confused as I did finding the answers...

Go to the main navigation at the top... hover over "Information", then over "2011 General Election", then over your constituency.

strobe

Michael Nugent wrote: »

We're starting to get replies back from candidates now.

As we get them, we are publishing them on our website.

You can read the replies we have got so far here.

Couple of suggestions Michael. Could you get someone to put the party affiliations (Labour, Green, Independant etc) beside the names. Had to google most of them to check it. Also it would be good if you could put up all the candidates names in the list, not just the ones who have answered and add a "yet to reply" thing beside the names of the ones that haven't responded yet. Would be good to know as it get's closer to the date which ones are simply dodging the questions.

==========================================================

It actually makes pretty good reading. It has it all. Well thought out and considered responses. Cringe worthy politician weaseling. And complete wtf? moments.

Thought Naoise Ó Muirí was gas. "I'm a believer." That's it. He wrote nothing else. Talk about playing it safe and obscure. There are religious secularists as well there Naoise. Just saying you are a believer (believer in what btw? the questions don't mention any particular religion or belief) is not an answer to any of the questions.

Some other good ones as well. Can't remember who said it but thought "even god says people should pay their taxes" was a good line. :pac:

ShooterSF

Not a single response for Meath West yet Says a lot about the candidates I have choice of. On the plus side canvassers should be fun...

Beruthiel

I'm in Kildare North and started a discussion on religion in our schools with Eric Doyle Higgins, an Independent in my area.
Think he was being particularly evasive.

Michael Nugent

strobe wrote: »

Couple of suggestions Michael. Could you get someone to put the party affiliations (Labour, Green, Independant etc) beside the names. Had to google most of them to check it. Also it would be good if you could put up all the candidates names in the list, not just the ones who have answered and add a "yet to reply" thing beside the names of the ones that haven't responded yet. Would be good to know as it get's closer to the date which ones are simply dodging the questions.

Okay, we'll have a look at those suggestions. It will probably take a few days to get around to it.

magicbastarder

Michael Nugent wrote: »

Bertie Ahern called canvassing today, and I asked him most of these questions...

you're very patient; i'd have just slammed the door in his face.

mewso

Bertie's replies were quite reasonable and are a positive reflection of his outlook. With that in mind I wouldn't publish them

Dave!

That makes for some interesting reading indeed Looks like Labour and the Greens are the least religious and most secular parties. Interesting. Socialist Party too, but...

Good work Michael! No responses from anyone in Dublin South West?

Saw Charlie O'Connor (local FF TD) hanging around the local church the other day

Really hope Pet Rabbite replies, but I doubt it, he's a busy man. Brian Hayes too.

eamo12

Michael Nugent wrote: »

Atheist Ireland is writing to all election candidates asking their views on six questions that are central to building a rational, ethical society with a secular State that does not support any religion. We will publish the candidates’ replies before the election.

We also ask voters to ask their local candidates these six questions. Most of us will vote based on economic policies or party allegiance. If several candidates share your views on these issues, please choose the candidate that most supports a rational, ethical, secular Ireland. Ask them:

1. Will you work to reform the education system so that all children in your constituency can access publicly-funded schools which have no religious ethos?
2. Would you support a referendum to remove religious references from the Constitution, including the religious oath for the President and Judges?
3. Do you believe that blasphemy should be a criminal offence?
4. Would you support legislation to prevent state-funded hospitals from having a religious ethos that makes medical decisions based on religious beliefs?
5. Would you vote to ensure that religious bodies are treated the same as other organisations under equality and employment legislation?
6. Do you believe that religions, like other organisations, should have to pay their fair share of tax on income that is not used to fund charitable activities?

In the last Census, over a quarter of a million people either ticked the ‘No Religion’ box (186,000), or didn’t answer the question (70,000), or wrote in an answer that isn’t a religion (over 2,000). With the dramatic changes in Irish society since the last Census, we believe the figure today is much higher.

We also hope that many religious Irish people will want to practice their faith without seeking support from the State that discriminates against other citizens. Please vote to support a secular Ireland, where every citizen has the right to their religious beliefs, and where the State remains neutral on these beliefs.

I guess you'll be voting greens ..... again.

Waking-Dreams

Good work AI.

Kildare's Paddy Kennedy may have brushed past the 3rd question given his other answers.

1. Will you work to reform the education system so that all children in your constituency can access publicly-funded schools which have no religious ethos? YES

2. Would you support a referendum to remove religious references from the Constitution? YES

3. Do you believe that blasphemy should be a criminal offence? YES

4. Would you support legislation to prevent hospitals from having a religious ethos? YES

5. If elected, would you vote to ensure that religious bodies are treated the same as other organisations under equality and employment legislation? YES

6. Do you believe that religions should have to pay their fair share of tax on income that does not come from charitable activities? YES

PeterIanStaker

Good list, very well phrased & pertinent questions.

PeterIanStaker

Waking-Dreams wrote: »

Good work AI.

Kildare's Paddy Kennedy may have brushed past the 3rd question given his other answers.

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He (or the Smithers type answering his mails) may have just ticked em all. On his site there, and he's an Ind. Damn I wish he was FF so I could kick them some more.

ShooterSF

So tho two big left wing parties have come out in almost full support of A.I's concerns.
Decisions decisions.

Why can't we have one liberal secular economically right wing party?

strobe

ShooterSF wrote: »

So tho two big left wing parties have come out in almost full support of A.I's concerns.
Decisions decisions.

Why can't we have one liberal secular economically right wing party?

No independents in your constituency?

panda100

ShooterSF wrote: »

Why can't we have one liberal secular economically right wing party?

We did, the progressive democrats.

IOfound Leo Varadkars answers the most telling really, as I always thought he was one of the most progressive members of FG, and it just proves that they will just be FF part deux.

4. Would you support legislation to prevent hospitals from having a religious ethos?
No. State-owned hospitals should be secular. But many voluntary hospitals such as the Mater are owned by a religious institution. I would not ban the Mater from having a religious ethos and it would an appalling use of the health budget to purchase or CPO the Mater and other religious-owned hospitals when the owners currently allow us to use them rent free

I worked and studied in the Mater hopsital, and my wages were paid by the state. How on earth is it a voluntary hopsital when so much goverment funding goes into it?

Do you know what I really believe is 'appalling' Leo, is that a rape victim cannot be prescribed the Morning after Pill in the state funded, and state paid, Mater Hospital, because it contravenes the hospitals Catholic ethos.


Also why is Marcus De Brun shouting at us though his response where my fave.I can't wait till we evil Atheists take over the world and finally ban childrens laughter for all eternity

6. Do you believe that religions should have to pay their fair share of tax on income that does not come from charitable activities?
NOBODY SHOULD PAY TAX IF THOSE TAXES ARE USED TOWARDS CORRUPT ENDS
7. If you wish to provide a brief general statements of your views on the future development of secularisation in Ireland, or to highlight any previous comments you have made on related issues, please do so.
If atheism is merley a repulsive reaction to the dogmatics and unsustainabilities of religious logic and authority I am no atheist. There is something beautiful beyond the brut materialism of the real, there is something mysterious in the very existence of matter and the evident fact that matter has been imbued with this thing we call life… if atheism seeks to discount that mystery, that beauty that is summarised in the laughter of a child, then I fear atheism as much as religion. If however atheism is the starting point for a meaningful philosophical discourse upon reality, the universe and the purpose (if any) of our existence, a discourse that abides by the principles of reason and logic rather than blind faith and dogma then I count myself as atheist as the best or the worst them

ShooterSF

strobe wrote: »

No independents in your constituency?

Yes, 1 but running on local issues as far as I can see. Something I really detest in a general election.

Michael Nugent

Fine Gael, the Labour Party and Sinn Fein have now provided party responses to the six questions, as have many individual candidates including independents.

panda100

I thought some on here may find this email that is circulating in Mary Hanafins constituency interesting:

Dear xxx

Minister Mary Hanafin is holding a meeting for pro-life supporters from the Dun Laoghaire Constituency in the Merrion Suite, Stillorgan Park Hotel, this coming Wednesday, 16th February from 6-7pm. Mary will discuss her re-election campaign and answer questions on the life issue.

I wish to extend a warm invitation to you to attend this meeting and please feel free to notify family and friends also.

All the indications suggest Mary will be fighting for the last seat in Dun Laoghaire, most likely against Senator Ivana Bacik of the Labour Party or Cllr Richard Boyd Barrett of United Left Alliance. Mary faces a very tough battle to secure that last seat, and every help will be needed to ensure that she does.

As you know, Mary has a strong record in defending the pro-life position over many years and it is of particular importance in this election that people like her be returned to Dáil Éireann.

Please do your best to try and make it along on Wednesday. We very much look forward to meeting you and your friends and family at this short get-together.

Best wishes

Louis

Louis J. Dockery BA DLS RTMA Dip. Ecomm
DOCKERY Solicitors

Link://www.mamanpoulet.com/mary-hanafins-pro-life-election-meeting/

ShooterSF

I'd love to show that letter to Ivana Bacik and ask her if she still supports a discriminatory quota of minimum women in the Dail.