How to open your own cafe/bistro.

JajaD

Hi,

I am interested in opening my own cafe/bistro type place. Would only rent the premises. But i want to know what exactly i need to do?

What health and safety certs do i need?
What insurance will i need? Or is that covered with the rent?
What are the legal procedures?


any help would be GREATLY appreciated!

Corsendonk

JajaD wrote: »

Hi,

I am interested in opening my own cafe/bistro type place. Would only rent the premises. But i want to know what exactly i need to do?

What health and safety certs do i need?
What insurance will i need? Or is that covered with the rent?
What are the legal procedures?


any help would be GREATLY appreciated!

Food Safety? Or have you done what most people do and confused Health and Safety with Food Safety. Heard a cafe chain owner the other day on the news do the same thing. Scary!!

http://www.fsai.ie/food_businesses.html

JajaD

Corsendonk wrote: »

Food Safety? Or have you done what most people do and confused Health and Safety with Food Safety. Heard a cafe chain owner the other day on the news do the same thing. Scary!!

http://www.fsai.ie/food_businesses.html

Jesus, why does everyone on here always have a smart answer. I am not a cafe chain owner either! I am someone who loves to cook and LOOKING INTO running a cafe. Obviously food safety is essential. Any dimwit knows that. Im talking about fire safety, inspectors, insurance etc... DUH!

andydrew

Hi there !
I think this may help ! Firstly you overview the premises with the health inspector they will help you set up your HACCAP. When its set up they give you the certification concerned... You contact the local Fire Brigade and they ll set up your "Fire policy and standards" they will than give you certification. You then contact an Insurance company who quote you "Public Liability Insurance" Then you take all above certification to the Solicitor ( Assuming no drink licience, you will have Company registration, Tax clearence cert, and your leace agreement ) . The soliciter will apply to the courts for your traders licence and as long as no one complaines your in business !!! A little tip when your with your solicitor make sure your very clear about how to disolve the company/ business !!! trust me you ll sleep better !!!

andydrew

I repled with an answer but it did nt seem to come up !!! sorry I m new to this ! I just wanted to say, don t let people put you off all the red tape is somthing you can learn but the love and passion for cooking and food you can t and if its good enough people will buy it... Brilliant time to open !!! trust me I know... customer is KING !!!

Corsendonk

JajaD wrote: »

Jesus, why does everyone on here always have a smart answer. I am not a cafe chain owner either! I am someone who loves to cook and LOOKING INTO running a cafe. Obviously food safety is essential. Any dimwit knows that. Im talking about fire safety, inspectors, insurance etc... DUH!

Hi, not a smart answer, the smart answer would be to tell you to post in the business forum as all your insurance, lease, H & S questions would be covered off there. This is the Food Forum DUH! And you be surprised how many dimwits run foul of HSE by leaving Food Safety considerations to last.

Mr Magnolia

Moved from F&D. Best of luck with your venture JajaD.

thebooxttt

If your renting an existing cafe/restaurant it should have planning granted as a food outlet & a fire cert on the premises, you will also have to make sure their are no trading restrictions. If its a retail (clothing etc.) unit you may have to apply for planning change of use, plus a a fire cert. As far as I know, planning change of use is fairly cheap but fire certs can be costly, this may be negotiable with the landlord. Also if you are going into an existing premises beware of key money, just make sure your getting value for your money.

That done, you need to register with your local HSE as proprietor of your food premises. It may be best to run any kitchen/layout plans past health inspector first as they will point out any potential & costly issues, plus it looks good to get them on board from the start and they can't come in on week two & tell you to move the dishwasher if they have agreed the plan.

Check if any insurance is covered on the rent agreement but you will need your own cover on public liability (should anyone get severe food poisoning & I'm not suggesting they may!), employers liability & food cover (include frozen & fresh/cold room cover). But most insurance brokers will advise on standard policies for food establishments...just shop around!

Legally you will need your tax clearance cert, might have to register for VAT & PRSI depending on the size of the operation, you will need to form a company or go sole trader/partnership...baically talk to your accountant & solicitor & they should have all the info you need in that department. Plus get the lease agreement checked fully.

Just make sure your happy with what your getting for your money with regard to rent & what services, if any, are covered. Water, electricity, refuse & council rates can rack up huge runnng costs.

Get it all in writting & have fun!

And hey, don't forget it's your business so make money for yourself & don't work just to pay the bills & others wages!

JajaD its probably the worst time since the 80's to open cafe/bistro. Any venture like that right now is huge risk. You would want to be absolutely certain of your figures and people you need in the door to make it work.

Ten years ago when I was in college I worked in a cafe/bistro in Dunlaoghaire GTI - near the cinema, shops etc. Nice menu, premises, height of the boom, but was only full on saturdays and sundays which wasnt enough to keep the place open...

Now people have much less disposable income, there less people employed so less lunchtime trade, less 8euro sandwiches with crisps being bought. Less expensive coffees and teas (where the biggest margin is)
Im not usually a kiljoy but you want to be seriously careful with this one....

thebooxttt

El Rifle. With all due respect, if the cafe you worked in during he boom was doing the food & service plus good decor as you indicated, it woiuld have been doing the business! It seems to have been in a busy location with plenty of footfall but still couldn't fill their tables. Quite frankly if you cant turn over your tables in that position there must be some serious internal management issues.
Yes, there is alot at stake but if you do it right there is never a better time. Rent is lower, some counties are reducing rates, wages are down, suppliers to the trade are very competitive price wise (in 1999 I was paying £1.20 for a chicken fillet, now it's 90c...Irish chix) & there are plenty of good people out there looking & willing to work & work hard.
I recently closed a seasonal food premises (we stayed open till xmas) for the winter season & the biggest regret I had was letting the great staff go, I probably won't get hem back in April when we re-open but I know there are similar people out there.

The big issues are that spend is down, but people will always eat & drink. You just have to figure out how to make them eat & drink with you.
Biggest issue are the banks not lending or even looking at hospitality projects...but thats a whole different bucket of crap!

Question is...is the ever a right or wrong time? As long as you keep a good eye on the finances, don't be a busy fool, try new ideas to drum up business & don't be afraid to cut where & when you need to. I found that staff were willing to take reduced hours in line with business trends & were just happy to be working any hours necessary.

jajaD, put it all down on paper and if it does realistically stack up (no cheating) to you & you are genuinely happy with it & you truely believe in it ...go for it!

andydrew

I am so glad this thread has taken a more possitive slant ! Yes, there s no doubt that business has been hell. Everything in this country is measured against a base. That base was highly influenced by the construction trade. Thankfully sanity has returned !!! Land lords, oligopolly supliers Government officialls and the courts and insurance companies have had a fuse lit up their arses !!!In any open market system that has low barriers of entry only the fitest will survive!!! Yes the worm has turned and I FOR ONE SHALL CONDEM THOSE FACTORS TO A LIFE OF HELL FOR THEIR APATHY IN THE PAST ! I am a survivor! solvent and healthy ! I WILL NOT settle for " It was the company that made me / I HAD TO PROTECT MYSELF" ! To get a finger on my money my supliers will have to cower to my every whim and my every need . Just like i do with my customers... The King is dead !!! GOD SAVE THE KING !!!

JajaD

thebooxttt wrote: »

El Rifle. With all due respect, if the cafe you worked in during he boom was doing the food & service plus good decor as you indicated, it woiuld have been doing the business! It seems to have been in a busy location with plenty of footfall but still couldn't fill their tables. Quite frankly if you cant turn over your tables in that position there must be some serious internal management issues.
Yes, there is alot at stake but if you do it right there is never a better time. Rent is lower, some counties are reducing rates, wages are down, suppliers to the trade are very competitive price wise (in 1999 I was paying £1.20 for a chicken fillet, now it's 90c...Irish chix) & there are plenty of good people out there looking & willing to work & work hard.
I recently closed a seasonal food premises (we stayed open till xmas) for the winter season & the biggest regret I had was letting the great staff go, I probably won't get hem back in April when we re-open but I know there are similar people out there.

The big issues are that spend is down, but people will always eat & drink. You just have to figure out how to make them eat & drink with you.
Biggest issue are the banks not lending or even looking at hospitality projects...but thats a whole different bucket of crap!

Question is...is the ever a right or wrong time? As long as you keep a good eye on the finances, don't be a busy fool, try new ideas to drum up business & don't be afraid to cut where & when you need to. I found that staff were willing to take reduced hours in line with business trends & were just happy to be working any hours necessary.

jajaD, put it all down on paper and if it does realistically stack up (no cheating) to you & you are genuinely happy with it & you truely believe in it ...go for it!

I am in my mid twenties, with a good few years experience with food and customers, menus, coming up with ideas etc..

I am finishing my degree in a few months and dont want to do anything only cook lovely food and make a living. I want to work hard, cook full time in it and hopefully with a good location, good menu, price etc I can do well. I have always been optimistic so I look at this with optimism also. As my grandfather used to say "Theres two things that people will always need and thats clothes and food". So even in recessionary times people still eat, people still cant refuse a good bargain. Thats something I hope to achieve. Food at a price that people cant resist. If the food and service is good, people will come back. I know a guy who runs a cafe/diner type of place and he is doing really! AND its located in an area in Dublin that wouldnt be known for wealth or luxury. The people there get good food at a good price.

How much money do you think I would need to start one up? Would 5,000 start me up (if the place i got already had a kitchen). Fortunately I can get free work done on the interior/exterior as all my family are tradesmen. I hope Im not coming across too naive. I am at the very earliest stages of this idea so my eagerness might be getting ahead of me!

91011

Corsendonk wrote: »

Food Safety? Or have you done what most people do and confused Health and Safety with Food Safety. Heard a cafe chain owner the other day on the news do the same thing. Scary!!

http://www.fsai.ie/food_businesses.html

A cafe will need its heath & safety certs long before they can bring any food onto the premises.

Health & Safety will cover everything from access for wheelchairs, size of entrance door, fire exits, ventillation, fire / smoke alarms, machine rating, fire extinguishers, quality of furnishings, customer toilet areas, waste water treatment etc.

THEN afetr you have that sorted, you get onto the food saftey areas, but anyone in the food business would already have plenty of knowledge of this, so the OP probably doesn't need advice in this area as this is where their expertise lies.

This link will get you started
http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Your_Industry/Catering_and_Hospitality/

JajaD

JajaD wrote: »

I am in my mid twenties, with a good few years experience with food and customers, menus, coming up with ideas etc..

I am finishing my degree in a few months and dont want to do anything only cook lovely food and make a living. I want to work hard, cook full time in it and hopefully with a good location, good menu, price etc I can do well. I have always been optimistic so I look at this with optimism also. As my grandfather used to say "Theres two things that people will always need and thats clothes and food". So even in recessionary times people still eat, people still cant refuse a good bargain. Thats something I hope to achieve. Food at a price that people cant resist. If the food and service is good, people will come back. I know a guy who runs a cafe/diner type of place and he is doing really! AND its located in an area in Dublin that wouldnt be known for wealth or luxury. The people there get good food at a good price.

How much money do you think I would need to start one up? Would 5,000 start me up (if the place i got already had a kitchen). Fortunately I can get free work done on the interior/exterior as all my family are tradesmen. I hope Im not coming across too naive. I am at the very earliest stages of this idea so my eagerness might be getting ahead of me!

You'll need to multiply that by 10 at least OP.
theboox, I can't agree with you when your say, whens a good time and whens a bad time when your cutting staff hours etc, surely thats a sign that its a bad time? Are Irish people not spending less today then in the last 20 years?

antoinolachtnai

Well, they are spending more than they were 10 or 12 years ago, say.

An actual place where you can cook food, you are not going to get anywhere for five grand, generally.

It is time to put aside your love of the idea of the lifestyle for a minute and use the skills you learned doing the degree to deeply analyse and think about how the restaurant/food business actually works.

It is worth spending a lot of time visiting restaurants and figuring out how the business works - i.e., how much foot traffic they get, how many covers they do, what the average revenue per cover is, what the gross margin is, what the staffing level, how much VAT they are accruing, what the PRSI bill is and so on. You could actually spend a grand or two on this exercise alone, just eating in various places, and it would be a good investment if you are really serious.

There is a book 'setting the table' by the NY restauranteur Danny Meyer. I think you should blow the 20 or 30 euros and buy it, or at least find it in a library.

http://www.amazon.com/Setting-Table-Transforming-Hospitality-Business/dp/0060742755

This tells the story about how Meyer, one of the best guys in the fine food business in the world, got into the game. (Potted summary: he spent a year or two travelling around the finest restaurants in France and Italy learning about good food.) He has a good philosophy about service and food, which I think translates well to many other service businesses. Before you read it, I warn you, this guy didn't do anything by halves. Even opening a lunchtime burger stand in the park (which he does and describes) is a deeply considered and carefully managed venture for him, and rightly so.

This might be interesting for you OP: http://www.independent.ie/education/features/can-restaurateurs-return-to-school-to-boost-their-profits-2510968.html

sedohre

This book might be of some interest to you

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Anyone-Can-Do-Building-Entrepreneurship/dp/1841127655/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1296822724&sr=1-2