Pros and Cons of Automatic Cars

KERSPLAT!

OK so ive been looking for a car for couple weeks now. Kinda set on a Mondeo '01-'03, Today I was offered, a '02 2.0 Petrol with NCT 02/12, she didnt know the mileage but said it was low, Im guessing under 80/90k (calling later for exact spec) for €1300, only problem is its an automatic... Ive never driven one before and was just asking peoples opinions on them?

To me, €1300 is a steel if the car is in good condition!! But if autos are crap id rather pay the extra as I was offered a '01, 2.0 TDCi for €1850 with 3 months warrenty

All advice welcome

Forest Master

Autos are great. Pretentious "real" drivers will try to claim otherwise without any actual evidence other than the usual "gears make me feel more in contact with the road" and "I like to be in control" and "manual cars have better acceleration". blah blah.
I refute those claims: I have an XKR and it's an Auto - trust me - I feel contact with the road when I floor it - the grip is unreal, as is the acceleration. And I am in control - that's what the accelerator & brake are for.

Remember that you drive on Irish roads with speed limits that are enforced with points - not a racetrack. And any time you're in traffic, autos are much better than constantly changing gears. I prefer to drink coffee with my left hand instead of faffing around with a knob.

Padraig Mor

Forest Master wrote: »

I prefer to drink coffee with my left hand instead of faffing around with a knob.

There's a time and place for everything.......;)

Eoin

My last car was an auto, and I loved driving it. But it was a good match for the engine, and a very good 'box overall. A bad auto can be a really crap experience though; so don't just be convinced by people who have an auto 540 or the likes. Make sure you get lots of info about the specific car itself.

Forest Master wrote: »

I prefer to drink coffee with my left hand instead of faffing around with a knob.

*snigger*

Yep, I'm so mature.

KERSPLAT!

So they arent sluggish taking off? Thats my main concern, Im not a race driver but I like to be able to take off quiet fast.

Suppose test drive will put it to rest...

Is there any difference in fuel consumption or anythin else? (Prob a stupid question but I dont know much about cars )

edit: So anyone any idea about the Mondeo autos? Im guessing your talking bout the shift?

Eoin

Fuel economy is normally not as good in an auto.

So they arent sluggish taking off?

Again, it depends on the car. A good auto is probably as quick as it takes to change gears manually for a lot of drivers. If I planted the foot, mine didn't upshift too soon (plus it had sport mode as well).

keithclancy

IPAM wrote: »

So they arent sluggish taking off? Thats my main concern, Im not a race driver but I like to be able to take off quiet fast.

Suppose test drive will put it to rest...

Is there any difference in fuel consumption or anythin else? (Prob a stupid question but I dont know much about cars )

edit: So anyone any idea about the Mondeo autos? Im guessing your talking bout the shift?

An Auto in most cases will be faster than a manual as its more efficient at changing gears.

Use a bit more fuel also.

Wouldnt touch a 4 speed auto, drive one and see.

Forest Master

Padraig Mor wrote: »

There's a time and place for everything.......;)

Exactly - that's why I drive an auto! People who crap on about manuals must just enjoy gripping onto a phallic knob all day.

KERSPLAT!

keithclancy wrote: »

An Auto in most cases will be faster than a manual as its more efficient at changing gears.

Use a bit more fuel also.

Wouldnt touch a 4 speed auto, drive one and see.

Is 4 speed the norm? and can ya just tell me, wont bother if its a good reason :P

Forest Master

IPAM wrote: »

So they arent sluggish taking off?

Not at all - the gear changes are dictated by the precision engineering of the automatic gearbox. 99% of drivers can't be that accurate if they tried, despite how 'savage' some people on here think they are at driving. It's all computerised now too, so you have the worlds top car engineers calculating the gear changes in these engines with almost no lag or downtime between gear shifts.

colm_mcm

keithclancy wrote: »

An Auto in most cases will be faster than a manual as its more efficient at changing gears.

Use a bit more fuel also.

Wouldnt touch a 4 speed auto, drive one and see.

Ah come on, that's just not true unless you're talking about a dsg

Stevie Dakota

I had an auto in a previous 5 series, it was brilliant and suited the car perfectly, I now have a Focus and the manual suits it perfectly.

If the car suited it I would take an auto everytime.

As said a bad auto is really bad so you really should drive the car in question and see what you think. If you run into problems with an auto though €1000k seems to be the magic number for any repair.

Mr Benevolent

IPAM wrote: »

Is 4 speed the norm? and can ya just tell me, wont bother if its a good reason :P

Yep, it's normal for a lot of cars. Almost all new autos will be 5 speed or more - unless they're CVT, that is. Smaller cars will all be 4 speed generally.

KERSPLAT!

OK so in peoples opinions... Mondeo 2002 2.0, Manual or Auto?

btkm8unsl0w5r4

I think it depends on the auto box and the engine. Auto are perfect for bigger engine with (oh jesus I am about to say it amint I) low end torque.

An auto in a small low power car never get the best out of the car. It constantly changes its mind. I have driven 1.8 mazada 6's with auto and its horrible. Slow to change down, changing gear mid corner, and gave me the feeling of seasickness etc.

A big engine an auto is perfect. Your in a more economical gear more of the time (not on some Co2 test computer but the real world where we leave cars in 5th instead of shifting etc.). You will accelelerate well 100% of the time, a manual may be quicker but in the average drivers hands its will not be on average. Its less stressful to be in traffic and allows you to concentrate on driving well as opposed to making noise with the gears.

The geatest auto I ever drove was a 525d new model BMW. 7 speed auto. Its like one constant gear, no perception of changing just smooth constant acceleration. Of course a dual clutch box is the best of both worlds.

RobAMerc

I love auto but I still think it depends on

1. The engine - more power = better for auto. A smaller power band is also better in an auto as you'd be stirring the stick a lot in a manual. i.e. diesel
2. who made it - some manufacturers do better than others
3. the driver - you can make an auto behave exactly as you wish or sit back and let the boffins at the car company do it. I still maintain they'll do a better job than most drivers left to their own devices.

lastly - in a true sports car I drove down back roads or on a track I'd want manual - I don't have one though so I'll stick with auto thanks.

Anan1

keithclancy wrote: »

Wouldnt touch a 4 speed auto, drive one and see.

That all depends on the engine in front of it. For the likes of a modern BMW turbodiesel i'd agree, but a large petrol engine with a broad spread of power can work very well with four forward gears. Remember too that we're talking about ten year old cars here.

iphone4g

Forest Master wrote: »

Not at all - the gear changes are dictated by the precision engineering of the automatic gearbox. 99% of drivers can't be that accurate if they tried, despite how 'savage' some people on here think they are at driving. It's all computerised now too, so you have the worlds top car engineers calculating the gear changes in these engines with almost no lag or downtime between gear shifts.

Do you believe all the bull**** you read and spout?

As far as I know the Mondeo auto of that era use the same 5 speed auto that's in my ZT. Not too bad a unit but not great, no tiptronic feature but the Sports mode really makes a huge difference, in sports mode it will still drop to 2nd at 50+ mph and go to the redline in all gears. They need a fluid change at 90K ish miles and this should not be neglected.

I had an auto Prelude before as well as 7 or 8 manuals. For and against both, to be honest I wouldn't imagine you regretting getting the auto but likewise if you get a manual you won't wish you went auto either.

Defo will be heavier on petrol than the manual version.

Eoin

iphone4g wrote: »

Do you believe all the bull**** you read and spout?

how many warnings does one person need? take a week off.

kerten

As a late auto lover,

auto boxes have advantages and disadvantages depends on technology they have and engine that comes with them.

As everyone agrees, smalller engine(<1.8 lt) with auto boxes(torque converter ones especially) may be so slow during accelaration and start.

For 2.0 lt mondeo it is a torque converter type auto with 4 or 5 speed(not sure if it is 5 speed before pre-facelift) and it should be ok to drive.

advantages
- more comfortable to drive and to be passenger in
- Better performance when you push it unless you are professional drag racer with perfect gear shift timing for manual box. It is slower than manual version on the paper of course.
- if your girlfriend/spouse drives it, she will smile at you:D

disadvantages
- it will be more thirsty during acceleration in slow traffic than manual version. Expect 10-15% more petrol consumption in comparing to manual version in general
- if it is a 4 gear box, it may be revving higher than manual at motorway speeds

I didn't see anyone who drives a big enough engine+proper autobox wants go back to manual for similar cars.

Anan1

kerten wrote: »

I didn't see anyone who drives a big enough engine+proper autobox wants go back to manual for similar cars.

And that about sums it up.:)

mike65

Engine/transmission parings are very particular so the OP really needs feedback from someone with the Mondeo 2.0 auto set up.

My own 2c is that the pros outweights any cons, mainly cos an auto is just much less stressful and tiring esp on a long day. Sure you'll pay a certain premium in fuel but if you end a journey not ready to either kick the cat or fall sleep then its probably worth it.

vincenzolorenzo

Performance-wise automatics are fine as long as you're plenty of grunt under the bonnet. If its underpowered then its not very pleasant at all.

Personally i find them incredibly boring to drive but thats just my preference. I know a good few people who think manuals are a pain in the arse, so it depends what people like themselves.

As regards driving them you'll get used to it very quickly, no worries on that front

KERSPLAT!

IPAM wrote: »

OK so in peoples opinions... Mondeo 2002 2.0, Manual or Auto?

So is the 2.0 petrol big enough?

Like I said, its a toss between a 2001 2.0 TDCi Manual @€;1850 or 2002 2.0 Petrol, Manual @€;1300, could prob get both down by couple €€€

Anan1

IPAM wrote: »

So is the 2.0 petrol big enough?

Like I said, its a toss between a 2001 2.0 TDCi Manual @€;1850 or 2002 2.0 Petrol, Manual @€;1300, could prob get both down by couple €€€

You'll need to drive it yourself, but i'd say it'll be fine. Remember, though, that you're looking at a ten year old Mondeo - good examples are quite thin on the ground at this stage. I'm guessing that 'she' is sales/reception in a back-street garage? If so, then the car is most likely a POS.

KERSPLAT!

Anan1 wrote: »

You'll need to drive it yourself, but i'd say it'll be fine. Remember, though, that you're looking at a ten year old Mondeo - good examples are quite thin on the ground at this stage. I'm guessing that 'she' is sales/reception in a back-street garage? If so, then the car is most likely a POS.

The Manual is from a small SIMI dealer, the auto is private. The auto was previously priced at €2200 a month ago but the woman said she just wants it out the drive way as she bought a new car. She sounds genuine... but everyone does when selling stuff

Anan1

Anan1 wrote: »

I'm guessing that 'she' is sales/reception in a back-street garage? If so, then the car is most likely a POS.

Or the car is sound and was taken as a trade in against a more modern yoke. No way of knowing really without checking it out.

firefly08

didn't see anyone who drives a big enough engine+proper autobox wants go back to manual for similar cars.

Here's one! I drive an Audi A6 2.8L V6 auto and would still prefer it in manual.

OP, what has been said so far about engine power is spot on - lower powered autos are fairly unpleasant to drive, and powerful ones are usually fine because you'll still have the power even while you're waiting for it to change gear. That said, there is a world of difference between good and bad auto boxes besides the power issue.

Autos might be fast to change, but for me, the "sluggishness" is just how it feels - the auto feels slow to change gear because you're waiting for it. In a manual, it might take a bit longer, but you're working the gears yourself and so it's more engaging and less boring. You don't put the hammer down till you've got the gear you want, so you never experience the disappointment of flooring it with no result.

One thing that really pisses me off about some autos is that you can't make it stay in a a low gear while you prepare to overtake - you can make it change down but once your speed stabilizes it just changes back up again. Luckily many of them allow you to select a lower gear and stay at or below that gear. Tip tronic is also handy for overtaking, a lot of new autos seem to have this these days (Not sure about the Mondeo though)

Elessar

Any experience of VWs DSG gearbox? I'm considering the purchase of a Golf 1.4 TSI (122bhp) with one. I haven't test driven yet so don't know if the engine suits it.

kerten

firefly08 wrote: »

Here's one! I drive an Audi A6 2.8L V6 auto and would still prefer it in manual.

I sense professional manual box user here

I have used audi/vw boxes(4 speed torque converter) in smaller engines(1.6-1.8) and they felt so sluggish but i am surprised with 2.8 V6. It is not a CVT box isn't it ?

Tiptronic is the solution for sluggish boxes like my current CVT. But even it is the worst performer from performance perspective, I find myself using manual gear selection 4-5 times per month.


DSG boxes are fine except early 7 speed ones that makes strange noises on rough surfaces. They are dual clutch boxes which is most efficient type in the market now. no extra fuel consumption or performance loss due to its technology. 1.4 tsi + dsg is a good and economical combination for a compact car.

Matt Simis

kerten wrote: »

I sense professional manual box user here
I have used audi/vw boxes(4 speed torque converter) in smaller engines(1.6-1.8) and they felt so sluggish but i am surprised with 2.8 V6. It is not a CVT box isn't it ?

My S8 is a 5speed Tiptronic Auto. Apart from the whole ticking time bomb that is an auto box on a high end car, it detracts from the energetic feeling you know is being muffled.
My 850CSi is manual and so so much more fun than the 840Ci Autos I test drove. My 530i Auto was competent but boring.

Autos are point and shoot driving, effective but dull.*

*except on diesels due to the ability to keep in the narrow powerband.

Anan1

IPAM wrote: »

the auto is private. The auto was previously priced at €2200 a month ago but the woman said she just wants it out the drive way as she bought a new car. She sounds genuine... but everyone does when selling stuff

That sounds worth a look, in fairness.

@ RoverJames - Everything's possible, but from what i've seen the backstreet dealers generally won't bid high enough for the really good older cars and their owners therefore end up selling them privately. You're right, though - you'd have to go look at it to be sure.

kerten

Matt Simis wrote: »

My S8 is a 5speed Tiptronic Auto. Apart from the whole ticking time bomb that is an auto box on a high end car, it detracts from the energetic feeling you know is being muffled.
My 850CSi is manual and so so much more fun than the 840Ci Autos I test drove. My 530i Auto was competent but boring.

Autos are point and shoot driving, effective but dull.*

*except on diesels due to the ability to keep in the narrow powerband.

I completely agree with you about that cars with that big engines for driving fun. But people who drives these kind of cars won't be mislead by my comments for ordinary commuters

Matt Simis

kerten wrote: »

I completely agree with you about that cars with that big engines for driving fun. But people who drives these kind of cars won't be mislead by my comments for ordinary commuters

True, if you just want to commute especially in heavy traffic, Autos are great.

Boskowski

Being an IT guy I simply call it an improved user interface.

That's really all there is to say about it.
Why would you want to fiddle with a third pedal and a stick when you don't have to? On a car being used for normal road traffic and not for motor sports/special purposes I can't see why anyone would.

RobAMerc

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Being an IT guy I call it a over engineering.

Why would you use something that uses more resources,costs more to install, replace and fix

Being an IT consultant - that's exactly what I'd do. The money is in the maintenance.

fletch

My Dad drives an '04 2.0 Mondeo auto and hates it....I hate driving it too. I'm not adverse to autos either (I've just bought a DSG), but I'd definitely be taking it for a spin first. He also finds it very thirsty.

Matt Simis

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Why would you use something that uses more resources,costs more to install, replace and fix

Dont forget the high probablity of a diminished User Experience!

n900guy

IPAM wrote: »

OK so ive been looking for a car for couple weeks now. Kinda set on a Mondeo '01-'03, Today I was offered, a '02 2.0 Petrol with NCT 02/12, she didnt know the mileage but said it was low, Im guessing under 80/90k (calling later for exact spec) for €1300, only problem is its an automatic... Ive never driven one before and was just asking peoples opinions on them?

To me, €1300 is a steel if the car is in good condition!! But if autos are crap id rather pay the extra as I was offered a '01, 2.0 TDCi for €1850 with 3 months warrenty

All advice welcome

for any of those cars, and in 99% of situations, an automatic is better in everyday driving.

Manuals are great for "real driving" assuming you want more control over your 911 Turbo , but mostly pointless on regular daily driving sedans, where an automatic is 100x better.

KERSPLAT!

Think I'll just stick with a manual

The 2001, 2.0 TDCi will hopefully save in fuel, last longer, 3 months warrenty from SIMI dealer and 2 years full NCT for €1850 (asking price should get that down ) and sounds like a decent deal

Thanks for everyones help

KERSPLAT!

Sorry to drag this back up but is there a difference in insurance prices? Or is it much the same?

Alanstrainor

IPAM wrote: »

Sorry to drag this back up but is there a difference in insurance prices? Or is it much the same?

I would've thought the prices would be much the same. Well they were for me when i was getting quotes.

IPAM

IPAM wrote: »

Sorry to drag this back up but is there a difference in insurance prices? Or is it much the same?

Only insurance companies who know your driving history, gender, age, occupation, licence status, penalty points situation, address, annual mileage etc can answer that one.

KERSPLAT!

RoverJames wrote: »

Only insurance companies who know your driving history, gender, age, occupation, licence status, penalty points situation, address, annual mileage etc can answer that one.

Was just a general question asking peoples opinions, obviously people here cant quote me considering they know nothing about me but they may have a general idea whether it is cheaper or more expensive to insure an automatic compared to a manual, but thanks for the info.

IPAM

IPAM wrote: »

or more expensive to insure an automatic compared to a manual, but thanks for the info.

If you are young with little driving experience a 2.0 petrol would be a good whack more than a 2.0 diesel
Auto or manual wouldn't be a huge issue.

KERSPLAT!

RoverJames wrote: »

If you are young with little driving experience a 2.0 petrol would be a good whack more than a 2.0 diesel
Auto or manual wouldn't be a huge issue.

I went to look at a 2.0 Diesel last night... was in bits but going to look at a '02 Mondeo, 2.0 petrol, Auto, €1300, on Saturday, for that price i'll be getting my mate to have a good luok, just cant believe a '02 for that price but the lady sounds genuine and said she just wants it out of the way since she got a new one... hope I dont end up with a banger

Im 24, driving 4 years with 4 years no claims BTW

Anan1

IPAM wrote: »

I went to look at a 2.0 Diesel last night... was in bits but going to look at a '02 Mondeo, 2.0 petrol, Auto, €1300, on Saturday, for that price i'll be getting my mate to have a good luok, just cant believe a '02 for that price but the lady sounds genuine and said she just wants it out of the way since she got a new one... hope I dont end up with a banger

Im 24, driving 4 years with 4 years no claims BTW

Find out how long they've owned it, has it a full service history, and what's been spent on it recently. It's potentially a very good car, but do all your checks. I'll wager there's no tax on it now, but see how long it was taxed for last time.

KERSPLAT!

Going to look at it on Saturday, havent many details yet as the lady was in work but its NCT till 02/12, no mention of tax or mileage but she said low mileage, (again she was in work so she didnt know) if its in good nick i'll snap it up for €1k or little more, wave some cash in her face if I dont like the auto I reakon I could sell it on for a small profit, most '01 goin for bout €2k, but thats why I need to get it checked out properly, dont want to end up with a dodgy motor

stephendevlin

Forest Master wrote: »

Autos are great. Pretentious "real" drivers

I own an auto.

I would sell it tomorrow for a manual.

More controll of the speed on "normal roads" where you shouldnt be drinking coffee. Ok if your on the motorway all the time.

They guzzle more petrol and emmit more emmissions.

They are sheite in the bad weather. (hence speed control) not always when going fast.

They are great for lazy people who couldnt be bothered to change gears.

Hard to get certain parts for

Just my 2 pence

stephendevlin

stephendevlin wrote: »

I own an auto.

I would sell it tomorrow for a manual.

More controll of the speed on "normal roads" where you shouldnt be drinking coffee. Ok if your on the motorway all the time.

They guzzle more petrol and emmit more emmissions.

They are sheite in the bad weather. (hence speed control) not always when going fast.

They are great for lazy people who couldnt be bothered to change gears.

Hard to get certain parts for

Just my 2 pence

I currently have an auto after 8 or 9 manuals and one other auto. I find it about 20% worse than the manual equivalent on fuel according to forum contributors (not this one obviously), I found it fantastic in the icey weather. Next car will probably be a manual though, auto suits me fine in this one though, love it.