The Frontline

Headshot

Anyone watching it. Interesting show but it does amaze me these idiots that will still vote ff. 'Brian Cowed is an honest man" l fell off my chair when I heard that.

Poccington

Headshot wrote: »

Anyone watching it. Interesting show but it does amaze me these idiots that will still vote ff. 'Brian Cowed is an honest man" l fell off my chair when I heard that.

Honestly couldn't believe it when he said that, the FG lad in the crowd nearly had a heart attack when he heard it.

Another man saying he'd vote based on local issue's. Exactly what's wrong with our political system.

the groutch

and as soon as somebody challenged Biffo's honesty, Pat quickly changed the subject, typicises the bias of RTE

ilovesleep

There should be a FAS course on politics for everyone to do and pass before they are allowed to vote.

ilovesleep

Poccington wrote: »

Honestly couldn't believe it when he said that, the FG lad in the crowd nearly had a heart attack when he heard it.

Another man saying he'd vote based on local issue's. Exactly what's wrong with our political system.

Someone here was saying last week that people are planted in that audience. Everyone should stop paying their tv license in protest.

Min

Labour lost out there, they scored an own goal by allowing the finance bill to be passed later this week/early next week.
People can see the political stunt for what it is.

Min

There is no evidence to suggest Brian Cowen isn't an honest man. He has been a poor leader but being a poor leader does not mean one is dishonest.

johngalway

Yer man is right about the politic speak. If someone calls to my door and says I'd like to make the point, and I think it's important... or any other of their crap sayings I'll need to muster all my will power not to punch them.

the groutch

pearse doherty gave another strong showing, the sooner they make him party leader the better imo

Headshot

Min wrote: »

There is no evidence to suggest Brian Cowen isn't an honest man. He has been a poor leader but being a poor leader does not mean one is dishonest.

Anglo Irish comes to mind

Minister Boyce

confused..is this a double thread???

JonathanAnon

Headshot wrote: »

'Brian Cowed is an honest man" l fell off my chair when I heard that.

I actually think he's an honest guy, but he was a moral coward in not making the tough decisions when Minister For Finance (when he could have cooled the property boom).. there's also a level of incompetence/inexperience involved in his whole handling of the banking .. and has showed an unwillingness to change his style of leadership to bring the Irish people with him..

I think I would have preferred if he had been taking bungs but had been on top of his brief as both Minister For Finance and Taoiseach..

the groutch wrote: »

pearse doherty gave another strong showing, the sooner they make him party leader the better imo

Yeah he was straight in to finance after literally only a week in the Dáil, taking over from Arthur Morgan.. he's a very impressive speaker.. him and Mary Lou and could be the first generation to push the party forward without the legacy of the links to the violent past..

LeixlipRed

I don't know any honest people. Everyone lies about certain things. Now for someone to rise all the way to the top of the FF ladder, how many times do you reckon they have to lie/cheat/steal/beg on the way to do that? Anyway who can honestly say they believe Brian Cowen has never lied to the Irish public is so naive that they really deserve the gombeens that FF/FG and Labour produce.

hallelujajordan

Headshot wrote: »

Anyone watching it. Interesting show but it does amaze me these idiots that will still vote ff. 'Brian Cowed is an honest man" l fell off my chair when I heard that.

Honestly, Fianna Fail are the largest party in the history of the state. . They are polling at around 10% (depending on which poll you read) and this number will almost certainly grow following the new leadership election and you fall off your chair when 1 man out of 150 or so indicates that he will vote Fianna Fail ??

Grow up !

Headshot

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Honestly, Fianna Fail are the largest party in the history of the state. . They are polling at around 10% (depending on which poll you read) and this number will almost certainly grow following the new leadership election and you fall off your chair when 1 man out of 150 or so indicates that he will vote Fianna Fail ??

Grow up !

those 10% are the biggest idiots of the state then. if I didn't know better I think your that sad fool who was in the audience who's going to vote ff again. People like him shouldn't be allowed to vote

KerranJast

Min wrote: »

Labour lost out there, they scored an own goal by allowing the finance bill to be passed later this week/early next week.
People can see the political stunt for what it is.

They've only themselves to blame for not properly informing the public. The reality is the Labour MoNC would probably fail as the Greens have stated they want the Finance Bill passed first. Labour people have royally screwed up their PR on that line today.

The Volt

KerranJast wrote: »

They've only themselves to blame for not properly informing the public. The reality is the Labour MoNC would probably fail as the Greens have stated they want the Finance Bill passed first. Labour people have royally screwed up their PR on that line today.

Joan Burton is explaining the stance pretty clearly on Vincent Browne at the moment.

Min

Headshot wrote: »

Anglo Irish comes to mind

What lie?

Liam Byrne

Headshot wrote: »

those 10% are the biggest idiots of the state then. if I didn't know better I think your that sad fool who was in the audience who's going to vote ff again.

Sorry, but I had to laugh at this......how do you "know better" ? You can't possibly know one way or the other, so the above is just posturing and adds nothing to the debate.

I think where Pat went wrong is that he didn't challenge the guy's view by asking why he would vote FF after everything that they've done. Now we'll never know, and it could be an interesting social / psychiatric study, be it family traditions, civil war crap, or Stockholm syndrome.

To be honest, I'd be more worried about the impact of people who'll refuse to admit it but will still vote for them come election day.

Headshot wrote: »

People like him shouldn't be allowed to vote

Again, I disagree, because who decides who can and can't vote ? Maybe he was saved a fortune by Cowen bailing out developers ? Maybe he was an Anglo board member dressed down ? Again, Pat screwed up by not introducing and challenging him properly.

Also, Pat seemed very interested in making the case for those on over €100,000 not being taxed more......while I couldn't bring myself to vote SF, Doherty did make a good point that there was no "economic impact study" on the effects of social welfare cuts or the sickening USC.

LeixlipRed

Min wrote: »

What lie?

You mean what has been proven that he has lied about not what is implied and 99% certain he did lie about. Brian Cowen publicly stated that he and Sean Fitzpatrick did not discuss (over 18 holes of golf, c.3-5 hours) anything to do with the bank guarantee which came soon after. Myself, as an intelligent person cannot believe that's even possibly true. If you believe it is then you deserve them

Min

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Also, Pat seemed very interested in making the case for those on over €100,000 not being taxed more......while I couldn't bring myself to vote SF, Doherty did make a good point that there was no "economic impact study" on the effects of social welfare cuts or the sickening USC.

All during that I was thinking of Pat Kenny...

Min

LeixlipRed wrote: »

You mean what has been proven that he has lied about not what is implied and 99% certain he did lie about. Brian Cowen publicly stated that he and Sean Fitzpatrick did not discuss (over 18 holes of golf, c.3-5 hours) anything to do with the bank guarantee which came soon after. Myself, as an intelligent person cannot believe that's even possibly true. If you believe it is then you deserve them

You can't assume one is dishonest based on assumptions.

LeixlipRed

You can't prove someone is dishonest based on assumptions you mean. You can assume what you want. Ok, do you believe him? As in my previous post, his statement, do you believe it?

hallelujajordan

Headshot wrote: »

those 10% are the biggest idiots of the state then. if I didn't know better I think your that sad fool who was in the audience who's going to vote ff again. People like him shouldn't be allowed to vote

Yeah, cos that's the kind of democracy we want. . .

KerranJast wrote: »

They've only themselves to blame for not properly informing the public. The reality is the Labour MoNC would probably fail as the Greens have stated they want the Finance Bill passed first. Labour people have royally screwed up their PR on that line today.

Unlikely . . Very difficult for the greens to vote confidence in a government they had just walked out of and even more difficult to vote confidence in a taoiseach who has just resigned as leader of FF having failed to pull a stunt on them. And that's assuming both Lowry and Jackie would support the govt (equally unlikely)

The reality is that Labour did a cosy deal to push through a finance bill that they want to see enacted but for which they don't want to take responsibility.

Liam Byrne

Min wrote: »

All during that I was thinking of Pat Kenny...

??? I was talking about Pat Kenny

Liam Byrne

Min wrote: »

What lie?

"The IMF aren't coming" would be one obvious one.

Min

Liam Byrne wrote: »

??? I was talking about Pat Kenny

Sorry, I should have been clearer, I was thinking watching the Frontline of Pat and his big pay.

Min

Liam Byrne wrote: »

"The IMF aren't coming" would be one obvious one.

Do you think it would be a good idea to say they were before it was agreed that it could be announced, all these things are choreographed.
A lie, but not a black one imo.

Lazare

Highlight of the frontline tonight for me was Pearse Doherty's comment to Sean Sherlock, 'Ye can get the sniff of the Merc's leather' lol

Doherty is fantastic entertainment, a great speaker and is surely going to be a huge draw for Sinn Fein next month.

That's a very scary thing, this upcoming election is sure to have the largest turnout of voters in history, and his clever populist bullsh1t is going to be hugely influential to angry new voters.

People want blood, he's claiming he can deliver it, people will stupidly believe him.

Scary times.

I admire Sinn Fein, but they need to be as far from decision making as is possible.

Liam Byrne

Min wrote: »

Do you think it would be a good idea to say they were before it was agreed that it could be announced, all these things are choreographed.

I value honesty and transparency. Something sadly lacking.

If they "might have" been coming, then he could have said "I can't comment on that".

Min wrote: »

A lie, but not a black one imo.

So you admit it was a lie, and yet you posted :

Min wrote: »

What lie?

Interesting stance. Defending and casting doubt on the facts even though you admit them.

LeixlipRed

Min wrote: »

Do you think it would be a good idea to say they were before it was agreed that it could be announced, all these things are choreographed.
A lie, but not a black one imo.

Oh ok, so now's he's gone from being honest to being a liar but not a really bad liar?

Liam Byrne

Lazare wrote: »

Highlight of the frontline tonight for me was Pearse Doherty's comment to Sean Sherlock, 'Ye can get the sniff of the Merc's leather' lol

To me, that was the most pathetic part of the whole show (well, that and the FF idiot in the audience).

Imagine Doherty's screaming if Sherlock had replied "Better than the sniff of cordite" ?

He'd have screamed blue murder that it wasn't a justified comment and was just mud-slinging.

It was a pathetic schoolboy-level debating cheap shot a la O'Donoghue's mud-slinging in the Dáil and something I had hoped we were gone beyond because of the seriousness of the crisis.

Liam Byrne

LeixlipRed wrote: »

Oh ok, so now's he's gone from being honest to being a liar but not a really bad liar?

But he is a really bad liar.........we didn't believe him re the IMF (or re "we have no other option" or a host of other things!

A good liar can convince you!

Lazare

Liam Byrne wrote: »

To me, that was the most pathetic part of the whole show (well, that and the FF idiot in the audience).

Imagine Doherty's screaming if Sherlock had replied "Better than the sniff of cordite" ?

He'd have screamed blue murder that it wasn't a justified comment and was just mud-slinging.

It was a pathetic schoolboy-level debating cheap shot a la O'Donoghue's mud-slinging in the Dáil and something I had hoped we were gone beyond because of the seriousness of the crisis.

I find cheap shot quick wit entertaining. I was entertained.

Liam Byrne

Lazare wrote: »

I find cheap shot quick wit entertaining. I was entertained.

If I want to be entertained I'll hire a comedian; if I want the country run properly I'll hire experts who can do the job.

Min

LeixlipRed wrote: »

Oh ok, so now's he's gone from being honest to being a liar but not a really bad liar?

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I value honesty and transparency. Something sadly lacking.

If they "might have" been coming, then he could have said "I can't comment on that".



So you admit it was a lie, and yet you posted :



Interesting stance. Defending and casting doubt on the facts even though you admit them.

I wanted to see what people thought was dishonest about him, Anglo Irish bank was mentioned, absolutely no evidence of dishonesty there, just assumptions.

I can't comment on that is an admission in itself. His ministers didn't know the IMF were coming, one can question how fast it all happened from denial to reality.
I don't believe it puts a question over his honesty.

Lazare

Liam Byrne wrote: »

If I want to be entertained I'll hire a comedian; if I want the country run properly I'll hire experts who can do the job.

Relax Liam, I'm not questioning your sense of humour.

btw, maybe read beyond the first line of my op

LeixlipRed

Min wrote: »

I wanted to see what people thought was dishonest about him, Anglo Irish bank was mentioned, absolutely no evidence of dishonesty there, just assumptions.

I can't comment on that is an admission in itself. His ministers didn't know the IMF were coming, one can question how fast it all happened from denial to reality.
I don't believe it puts a question over his honesty.

Right one more attempt to pin you down:

Do you believe that Brian Cowen and Sean Fitzpatrick did not discuss the bank guarantee when they played golf shortly before it was voted on?

Headshot

Lads sorry I can't respond because its a bitch to type on my phone but anyone watching Vincent show, Joanna burton is such a horrible bitch and would probably put me off voting for labour

The Volt

Headshot wrote: »

Lads sorry I can't respond because its a bitch to type on my phone but anyone watching Vincent show, Joanna burton is such a horrible bitch and would probably put me off voting for labour

She's been excellent on VB tonight I think. Higgins speaks utter nonsense.

Headshot

She has such double standards and vb taking her to town about it

ilovesleep

Headshot wrote: »

Lads sorry I can't respond because its a bitch to type on my phone but anyone watching Vincent show, Joanna burton is such a horrible bitch and would probably put me off voting for labour

Say what you will about her but she is not B.Lenihan.

LeixlipRed

Voltwad wrote: »

She's been excellent on VB tonight I think. Higgins speaks utter nonsense.

What exactly was nonsensical about what he said? That the bank bailout was morally wrong. Simon Coveney agreed with him on that even. The the ULA will present a strong opposition to a new government as opposed to a weakened and demoralised FF. What's incorrect about any of that?

Liam Byrne

Lazare wrote: »

Relax Liam, I'm not questioning your sense of humour.

btw, maybe read beyond the first line of my op

I'm perfectly relaxed, thank you very much.

I also didn't even consider that you were questioning my sense of humour (which is also fine, thanks)

All I was saying is that it's not up to politicians to entertain; they should be doing the job they're paid to do and not taking cheap shots, particularly ones that they'd object to themselves if the roles were reversed.

Lazare

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I'm perfectly relaxed, thank you very much.

I also didn't even consider that you were questioning my sense of humour (which is also fine, thanks)

All I was saying is that it's not up to politicians to entertain; they should be doing the job they're paid to do and not taking cheap shots, particularly ones that they'd object to themselves if the roles were reversed.

I'm not normally one for pointless arguments but I can't resist

My point was I found it entertaining regardless of whether it's 'up to' politicians to entertain or not and regardless of whether you or anyone else found it entertaining. I care little for what you regard as serious and what you deem entertaining, hence my comment re your sense of humour.

If you disagree fine, disagree, disagreement is wonderful, but don't begin to tell me what I should or should not find amusing.

Liam Byrne

Lazare wrote: »

If you disagree fine, disagree, disagreement is wonderful, but don't begin to tell me what I should or should not find amusing.

I didn't. I disagreed (fine) and said it wasn't their job.

ISAW

Lazare wrote: »

I'm not normally one for pointless arguments but I can't resist

My point was I found it entertaining regardless of whether it's 'up to' politicians to entertain or not and regardless of whether you or anyone else found it entertaining.

that fact that you comment on such personal snipes as entertaining means it has significance for you. Surely part of the problem with politics and the media is spin entertainment and image instead of honesty values and integrety. If news reporting has to entertain or interest you hen you are confusing "that in what the public is interested" with "in the public interest". One people find interesting, the other is out of the public purse.

Zynks

johngalway wrote: »

Yer man is right about the politic speak. If someone calls to my door and says I'd like to make the point, and I think it's important... or any other of their crap sayings I'll need to muster all my will power not to punch them.

Thanks

Pat D. Almighty

JonathanAnon wrote: »

I actually think he's an honest guy, but he was a moral coward in not making the tough decisions when Minister For Finance (when he could have cooled the property boom).. there's also a level of incompetence/inexperience involved in his whole handling of the banking .. and has showed an unwillingness to change his style of leadership to bring the Irish people with him..

I think I would have preferred if he had been taking bungs but had been on top of his brief as both Minister For Finance and Taoiseach..




Yeah he was straight in to finance after literally only a week in the Dáil, taking over from Arthur Morgan.. he's a very impressive speaker.. him and Mary Lou and could be the first generation to push the party forward without the legacy of the links to the violent past..

Mary Lou is probably Sinn Fein's biggest liability. She's a very nice woman and I've met her personally, but she's pretty robotic.

Birdnuts

Headshot wrote: »

those 10% are the biggest idiots of the state then. if I didn't know better I think your that sad fool who was in the audience who's going to vote ff again. People like him shouldn't be allowed to vote

Some kind of "stupidity" tax needs to leveled at these people:rolleyes:

femur61

Lazare wrote: »

Doherty is fantastic entertainment, a great speaker and is surely going to be a huge draw for Sinn Fein next month.

People want blood, he's claiming he can deliver it, people will stupidly believe him.

Scary times.

QUOTE]

I think Dorerty is going to draw a huge portion of the young electorate, yelp :eek:.