Hidden Cyclone

Colonel Sanders

Maybe I'm being a bit cheeky starting a thread about such a young, still inexperienced horse but here we go....

I'd heard from day one that connections thought an awful, awful lot of this horse and he hasn't let them down yet. Lands a well backed success in a Tipperary maiden then steps in class to win a reasonable Grade 3 at Navan. However the manner of victory was very impressive. Andrew Mac rode him like he knew he was on a good 'un and despite some very sloppy jumping won as he liked from a fair yardstick (pity Prima Vista didn't stand up as he'd been very well backed)

Ran over Xmas in a Grade 1. Never looked happy trying to make it but still ran a cracker to finish 3rd after more sloppy jumping, went right at more than a few and landed on all fours after the last.

But the best was yet to come. Yesterday's performance was very taking IMO. As the trainer had always suggested, seemed very well suited by the extra distance & jumped better this time but still seemed a bit keen. The turn of foot he showed after being sent for home after the 2nd last was impressive and he picked up again after messing up at the last (again!). Beat a well backed pair in 2nd & 3rd giving 3lbs & 6lbs respectively (Dessie Hughes had stated how much he thinks of the Gigginstown horse and Ballyhaunis was on a hat trick) and was probably idling in front and won with a fair bit in hand IMO

The thing about this horse is although he has already shown a high level of form the way he has shown keenness suggests to me you won't see the best of him til he runs in a good race with a decent sized field run at a very strong gallop (*cough* 2m 5 Neptune hurdle *cough*). I must admit to having a vested interest here as I've backed him at big prices for the race

Shark seemed reluctant to commit him to Cheltenham after the race. If you listen to the audio on the RP website he seems on one hand to want to wrap him in cotton wool this year but on the other hand maybe suspects that either the owner won't be able to resist running him or maybe he won't be able to resist. The interview is a bit ambiguous. Although a bit of give underfoot is essential

They seem adamant he won't be seen at his best until he tackles fences and having seen him for the first time in the flesh yesterday seems to have plenty of scope

Just wondering what other people think? I think (ground permitting) that the Neptune would suit him down to the ground and he looks like a horse that will have no problem coming up the hill. I haven't been this excited about a young horse since Aran Concerto, and while that didn't quite work out (in fairness the horse has injury problems) hopefully this lad can go to the very top. If any of you have a copy of Today's Racingpost to hand the superlatives are flowing non stop

UrbanSea

Think he might have won that race where he came third if the ground was better. He looked to me like he hated heavy ground,did look good yesterday though.

Colonel Sanders

UrbanSea wrote: »

did look good yesterday though.

The more I look at the race the more impressed I am

His jumping was far better too

Fingers crossed he realises his enormous potential

Colonel Sanders

UrbanSea wrote: »

Think he might have won that race where he came third if the ground was better. He looked to me like he hated heavy ground,did look good yesterday though.

Nick Mordin thinks a bit of him too

Anyone who doubts the idea that a race activates a horse's herd instinct should look at the video of the Grade 1 Future Champions Novice Hurdle at Leopardstown. The front running HIDDEN CYCLONE (38) jumped slightly right at a few of the jumps and the rest of the field all imitated him by taking the same skew path over the jumps, as if he was showing them the safest way to get across.

Hidden Cyclone is a tall, good bodied, chasing sort that's built for at least two and a half miles. So his rider probably would have done better to make this two mile race more of a stamina test. Though it's understandable he was cautious and set a modest early gallop because the ground was so heavy.

From five out Hidden Cyclone was asked to steadily wind the pace up and his jockey clearly fancied his chances just after jumping the second last because he stole a look back at his rivals. Unfortunately they were a little closer than he would have wished, and it turns out they had a bit more pace than Hidden Cyclone. He was still fighting for the lead though until he smashed through the last and lost momentum. He rallied back again on the run in despite being slightly tight for room down the inside, losing by under a length.

My feeling is that Hidden Cyclone will prove to be the best horse in this race. However I think he now needs to go up to two and a half miles if he's to win in Grade 1 company.

Hidden Cyclone didn't run anything like as green as he did in previous starts and I liked the way he rallied after that last flight mistake. It was a sign of real class. It could be that the ground will prove a little too fast for him at the Cheltenham Festival as he's rather a heavy topped sort, but if there's a bit of cut I'll fancy his chances in the Neptune.

UrbanSea

Do you think he'll stay the 2 mile 5 up the hill even if there's some soft ground?

bit of a bogey

Yeh although he looks a very good horse (was the only horse I backed the weekend) I dont think he would be up to the standard of a Neptune Investment hurdle.

I personally dont think it would be a good idea either as 2m 5f could be a bit too far for him at this stage in his carear. He looks to have plenty of scope which makes him an exciting prospect. But at the moment I'd bide my time and bring him on slowly. 2m5f at cheltenham could take it toll on him. I'd prefer to see him have a light campaign and see him come back after the summer a much stronger horse.

Colonel Sanders

UrbanSea wrote: »

Do you think he'll stay the 2 mile 5 up the hill even if there's some soft ground?

Yes. I personally think very very heavy may not suit 2m 5 around Cheltenham would suit on decent, safe ground IMO.

Trainer says he'll be a 3m chaser in time. He's also a 6yo so eventhough he's only had 5 races he has an extra year on the 5yos who he'd meet if he was to travel

bit of a bogey

UrbanSea wrote: »

Think he might have won that race where he came third if the ground was better..

He also made all which didnt suit the race that was in it.

Colonel Sanders

GROUND KEY TO CYCLONE FESTIVAL BID

Sunday's impressive Leopardstown winner Hidden Cyclone will only run at the Cheltenham Festival if the ground is soft.

Trainer Shark Hanlon is keen not to ask too much of the six-year-old this season as he views him as a potential Gold Cup candidate further down the line.

If he does turn up at Prestbury Park it will be for the Neptune Investment Management Novices' Hurdle.

"What we've said is that if there was a good cut in the ground we'd probably go to Cheltenham, but if there isn't, he won't," said Hanlon.

"I think he's a very good horse but he's still a big baby and I don't want to ruin him as I'm hoping down the line he's a Gold Cup horse.

"If we go we'll go for the Neptune. If we don't go to Cheltenham we'll go for the Michael Purcell at Thurles (February 24) which I won last year with Western Leader.

"He'll be let off after that, either way, and be brought back early season to go novice chasing.

"He'll definitely go chasing next year and we'll look to start in September."

Must admit I find this strange

They will have to make a decision on the state of the ground 3 weeks in advance :eek: Surely the sensible thing would be to wait for Cheltenham and if the ground is unsuitable hold on for Fairyhouse?

Possibly not going to travel, he skipped it with Luska Lad in his novice year too and isn't going this year either

Slattsy

I've a feeling he wont run at Cheltenham. He's your typical Irish Horse, as in he'll love the soft (soft/heavy) ground but just lacks that extra gear to win the top Grade 1 races on the better ground.

He's a stayer for sure, didnt back him the other day, i dont really lump on short price favs anymore. It was the trip that beat him the time before.

Dont be surprised if JP owns him next year !!

UrbanSea

What makes you think JP would own him?

Slattsy

UrbanSea wrote: »

What makes you think JP would own him?

JP will always try to purchase any juvenile that appears to have a bright future.
Does it every year.

UrbanSea

Doesn't strike me as a JP horse really.

Colonel Sanders

Slattsy wrote: »

I've a feeling he wont run at Cheltenham. He's your typical Irish Horse, as in he'll love the soft (soft/heavy) ground but just lacks that extra gear to win the top Grade 1 races on the better ground.

A stayer, but a stayer with a sound turn of foot. The way he put the race to bed after the 2nd last was impressive. Probably needs some cut and I wouldn't hold it against connections if they decided not to run if the ground was unsuitable, but strange to almost rule it out now. Seeing as Backspin's eclipse yesterday blows the race wide open again I'd be very keen for him to run (ground permitting) if I owned him

Slattsy wrote: »

JP will always try to purchase any juvenile that appears to have a bright future.
Does it every year.

Eh, he's not a juvenile! From what I can gather the owner isn't short of a few bob either so no reason for him to be sold

Colonel Sanders

GOOD MOVE TO MISS CHELTENHAM WITH HIDDEN CYCLONE

I've suggested before that HIDDEN CYCLONE (37) might lack the experience needed to win at the Cheltenham Festival as he'd shown signs of greenness in his races. I thought he might be over that but he isn't quite judged by the way he won the Grade 2 novices hurdle at Leopardstown last Sunday.

In the early stages Hidden Cyclone pulled hard against the slow early pace. He looked more comfortable when allowed to stride on into the lead at a better pace from the fifth. But he got horribly disorganised after clattering through the last and had to be ridden along quite vigorously to beat rivals that are surely some way below his class.

I'm inclined to think trainer John Joseph Hanlon was right to suggest afterwards that Cheltenham might not be a good move for Hidden Cyclone. He apparently feels the horses real future lies over fences - something that's hard to disagree with, given his strapping physique.

The step up to two and a half miles clearly helped Hidden Cyclone here, and there's every reason to believe he'll get three over fences next term. He's yet to run better than a Grade 3 time, but he's a really good looking horse that seems a bit special. I can see him taking high rank over fences.

From Nick Mordin

Colonel Sanders

Runs tomorrow against Bishopsfurze

The trigger will be pulled, hopefully the chamber isn't empty

UrbanSea

Worthy favourite. Bishopsfurze's jumping has looked very dodgy.

UrbanSea

Wait,how in the world is Bishopsfurze favourite tomorrow

hucklebuck

That's true, will be back Cyclone or Skorcher myself.

UrbanSea

I backed Skorcher when he won his maiden. Cyclone is the bet of the race for me at 7/4,will finally test his jumping to the max.

hucklebuck

UrbanSea wrote: »

I backed Skorcher when he won his maiden. Cyclone is the bet of the race for me at 7/4,will finally test his jumping to the max.

Skorcher is 14/1, uber value as they say in Germany.

UrbanSea

I'll wait and see if I can get Hidden Cyclone at 2/1. Skorcher looks a nice horse,but he doesn't look up to the calibre of Hidden Cyclone. I don't think Bishopsfurze will even get near him tomorrow.

HigginsJ

Won by 2 1/2 lengths.

http://www.attheraces.com/card.aspx?raceid=314291&meetingid=44542&date=2011-02-24&ref=mainracenavigation&refsite=&nav=results

Colonel Sanders

Went in with both fists here at Powers early 7/4, although he was very weak at the off

UrbanSea wrote: »

Wait,how in the world is Bishopsfurze favourite tomorrow

Yeah I didn't get this either. He was stepping back in trip and his jumping had been appalling. Couldn't understand how the prices weren't the other way round when Powers open 11/10 Bishops 7/4 Hidden

Still looks incredibly green. Could go all the way over fences

UrbanSea

I somehow didn't put everything I had on him. Was 11/10 when I looked. If I had known he'd drift again would have gone in.

Colonel Sanders

Another very taking performance today, this time over 2m 7

Travelled unbelievably well and settled well too considering the gallop was no more than modest. Best round of jumping he's put in too

This lad could go to the very top over fences, I'll be looking for an RSA quote for him straight after this year's festival

Doesn't run again this season apparently

Slattsy

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

Another very taking performance today, this time over 2m 7

Travelled unbelievably well and settled well too considering the gallop was no more than modest. Best round of jumping he's put in too

This lad could go to the very top over fences, I'll be looking for an RSA quote for him straight after this year's festival

Doesn't run again this season apparently

Let me know what price you get, i'd seriously like a piece of a bit of 33/1 !!

Colonel Sanders

Slattsy wrote: »

Let me know what price you get, i'd seriously like a piece of a bit of 33/1 !!

33s was the price I had in my mind too

Might be optimistic but both the horse & trainer haven't huge profiles outside of Ireland, he hasn't won a grade 1 & won't be at and of the spring festivals

A nice round 5000/150 would be nice work if I back a winner or two next week

Slattsy

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

33s was the price I had in my mind too

Might be optimistic but both the horse & trainer haven't huge profiles outside of Ireland, he hasn't won a grade 1 & won't be at and of the spring festivals

A nice round 5000/150 would be nice work if I back a winner or two next week

Ha ha yeah that would be nice !!
I reckon if it was a Mullins/Nichols horse you'll always get around 16/1 or 20/1 for a race a year in advance. HC could even be bigger than 33/1, hard to know.

Wouldnt it be nice, this time next year, sitting at home, having HC backed at 40/1 and seeing it pissing from the heavens

Colonel Sanders

33/1 with Stan James & bet365

Money waiting to back it at 50 on Betfair (not my cash )

RichieLawlor

Your obsession with this animal is quite frankly a bit disturbing:D

Slattsy

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

33/1 with Stan James & bet365

Money waiting to back it at 50 on Betfair (not my cash )

Yeah 33/1 sounds about right.
However i've 1 slight reservation... Shark Hanlon has said the horse does need soft ground and that he wouldnt have run at Chelt this year with that ground anyway.. so if it was good again next year he wont be running.
But at the price its worth a risk, surely !!

Thanks for the info

Colonel Sanders

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Your obsession with this animal is quite frankly a bit disturbing:D

Man you should've spoke to me when Leading Run was running riot in bumpers

I'll never forget stalking that horse.

Navan 1st time out: Up at the crack of dawn to get the 3/1 with Ladbrokes. Myself and a few of the lads were seriously balls deep. Watched as Flood's horse & Silent Oscar were punted against it all day. Won well

Gowran next time: after over a year out comes out and destroys Chumba Womba. Black Harry was a non runner. I didn't actually back him this day

Naas: Had what could only be described as a ridiculous bet at 6/4 in the morning. Smashed up on course, touched 5/4 in places & started odds on (saw a 100k sterling bet at evs with my own 2 eyes). Won and as a result I'd a tiny bet on Hairy Molly in the Champion Bumper at 40/1

Grade 1 at Punchestown: Rang in sick to work and traveled down. Had a very large bet at 7/2. Was very weak on course even though he was well backed. Bottled lumping on again at 4/1. Great ride from Nina & brought home the cash

Maiden hurdle Punchestown: Looked as big as a bull in the parade and could barely raise a leg at his hurdles. We'd still some of the most ridiculous bets ever on the horse this day. Won but I really think it bottomed the horse

Turned over at 1/3 next time when I wasn't on and I never backed him again apart from a token bet in the Albert Bartlett

Great days and some idiotic sessions paid for by the horse

Colonel Sanders

Cyclone brewing up a storm


John Hanlon is looking forward to seeing his classy hurdler Hidden Cyclone embark on a novice chase career when the National Hunt season hots up.

The six-year-old has suffered just one defeat in seven racecourse appearances, winning a bumper and five hurdle races.

The gelding bolted up on his latest appearance at Navan in March but is unlikely to be seen over fences until the end of the year, with his trainer plotting a route to the Cheltenham Festival.

"He's out in the field and he's going chasing. Cheltenham is going to be where I want to aim him," said Hanlon.

"We probably won't run him until Leopardstown at Christmas. We'll then run him in January and February and then look at Cheltenham.


"He's a beautiful horse and we don't know how good he is, but I think he's very good. He's won three Graded races and the only time he got beaten was when he ran behind First Lieutenant, who went on to win at Cheltenham."

Hanlon's other stable star is 10-time winner Luska Lad, who will also be encountering fences for the first time in the not too distance future.

"Luska Lad goes chasing as well. He's so tough it's unreal. He's not a big horse, he's only 16 hands, but he gives his heart every day," the trainer added.

"We have him schooled over fences and he jumps brilliantly. I have him back in and he'll maybe go to Listowel.

"I've never had a good chaser up until now but now I seem to have four or five, which is great as that is where the money is."

Surely the RSA is the only show n town

UrbanSea

Did you get a price for the RSA?

Colonel Sanders

UrbanSea wrote: »

Did you get a price for the RSA?

33/1 with the bookies

I've been tipping away on Betfair at prices in the mid 40's

Have it to win nearly 2k at the moment

dahat

16/1 with PP now,soft ground is a massive issue don't ya think?hardly likely to get soft at the festival...

Colonel Sanders

dahat wrote: »

16/1 with PP now,soft ground is a massive issue don't ya think?hardly likely to get soft at the festival...

Ground is the worry alright, however Shark seems set on the festival. Last year he seemed to be bidding his time over hurdles and they missed the big spring festivals

hucklebuck

dahat wrote: »

16/1 with PP now,soft ground is a massive issue don't ya think?hardly likely to get soft at the festival...

Just took him at 25/1 with bet365, I am a big fan of Grands Crus and will be having plenty on him too.

Colonel Sanders

Johnny Ward put HC up as his jumper to follow on RPTV

He was talking about the Arkle but Shark said at Leopardstown in January that he'd never be seen over 2m again. For a horse who put in his best jumping performance over 2m 7 I can't be thinking Arkle

hucklebuck

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

Johnny Ward put HC up as his jumper to follow on RPTV

He was talking about the Arkle but Shark said at Leopardstown in January that he'd never be seen over 2m again. For a horse who put in his best jumping performance over 2m 7 I can't be thinking Arkle

Hanlon said he reckons he will be a huge Gold Cup contender in 2013, surely the only prep for this is the 2012 RSA.

Slattsy

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

Johnny Ward put HC up as his jumper to follow on RPTV

He was talking about the Arkle but Shark said at Leopardstown in January that he'd never be seen over 2m again. For a horse who put in his best jumping performance over 2m 7 I can't be thinking Arkle

Does Ward ever get anything right lol
It'll def be the RSA this year, ground depending. Hanlon says he won't risk him on good ground, which is fair enough. Worth a wee ante post punt never the less.

Colonel Sanders

Slattsy wrote: »

Does Ward ever get anything right lol
It'll def be the RSA this year, ground depending. Hanlon says he won't risk him on good ground, which is fair enough. Worth a wee ante post punt never the less.

Maybe he's thinking of the likes of War Of Attrition and Kicking King taking in the Arkle before going onto better things over further

What he's forgetting is both those horses contested the Supreme over 2m, and indeed both finished 2nd. Neither horse ran over further than 2m 4 as a novice hurdler as far as I remember whereas HC most visually impressive performance was over 2m 7.

I'm not a critic of Ward's but this seemed a really lazy assessment.

Colonel Sanders

Sharks' stable tour is in the RP today, here's what he has to say about the special one

Hidden Cyclone

6g Stowaway - Hurricane Debbie
Mrs A Mee

113111-
RPR 148h
OR 141h

The stable star, having won six out of seven for us. The plan is to go chasing around Christmas and he won't have a busy campaign. He could be our Gold Cup horse in 2013

Timeform put him up in their Irish horses to follow as did the section "What's the Craic in Ireland?" in One Jumpe Ahead

Colonel Sanders

Entered (finally!) at Leopardstown on the 29th.....

Colonel Sanders

Opposition are no mugs, especially Shot From The Hip & Shinrock Paddy. The perils of waiting til xmas to make your chase debut. Unless the injury rumour is true Shark is mad for not giving him a pipe opener in a weak beginners chase before now.

Seems to be planning to go to Cheltenham this year & IMO a horse needs a minimum of 3 runs before tackling any of the Grade 1 novices there

Colonel Sanders

RSA is where I've invested. Have him to win about twice the biggest amount I've won on a horse but the outlay isn't anywhere near my 2nd biggest bet needless to say

You always need a nice ante post voucher to keep you warm over winter so hopefully this lad throws a few coals on the fire

RichieLawlor

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

RSA is where I've invested. Have him to win about twice the biggest amount I've won on a horse but the outlay isn't anywhere near my 2nd biggest bet needless to say

You always need a nice ante post voucher to keep you warm over winter so hopefully this lad throws a few coals on the fire

My big Antepost voucher is relying on Grands Crus getting outstayed by Bobs Worth and Silviniaco Conti at Kempton.

I am looking forward to seeing the cyclone tackle fences alright

Colonel Sanders

Entered at Fairyhouse new years day too. A lot of common entries in the 2 races but the Fairyhouse race definitely looks a lot weaker.

UrbanSea

Strong race tomorrow. Would anyone be worried that the trip on this ground would be too quick for him

Colonel Sanders

UrbanSea wrote: »

Strong race tomorrow. Would anyone be worried that the trip on this ground would be too quick for him

Powers have already priced it up

Don't agree with the market at all and was actually tempted to have a little on Shot From The Hip at 3/1.

Keep an eye out to see if Shark's wearing a suit tomorrow, the first time I ever saw him in one was when this lad won the Grade 2 on Champion Hurdle day last season!