Re-mapping to disable particulate filter alarms.

oceallaigh

Greetings,
My '05 1.6tdci 110bhp Focus is giving the following error "Engine System Fault". The main dealer says it's low on diesel additive and the particulate filter needs changing. This is an expensive job whether I go to the main dealer or not. I'm wondering if anyone has had their engine re-mapped in order to "defeat" the alarm? ..and if so, did their car pass a subsequent NCT? There are guys advertising this service on Done Deal. They remove the particle filter and remap the ems so that it thinks there's no longer a dpf. The theory goes;

* The 90bhp version of the 1.6tdci does not have a particulate filter and that passes an NCT fine.
* The catalytic converter is still present.
* The particlate filter reduces smoke, but the 90bhp is fine without one. The 110bhp car won't fail the nct after the dpf has been removed because it will only have marginally more smoke than the 90bhp and smoke is only really a factor when the engine is "loaded". Because the car is static during the NCT, the engine will not be loaded.

So my three questions are;
1. Has anyone had this done- particularly to a 110bhp 1.6tdci Focus?
2. Did their car pass an NCT afterwards?
3. If you haven't had it done, what do you think of the rationale behind having it done?

Regards,
oceallaigh

Graham_B18C

I reckon you'll get more replies in Motors

Thread Moved

ltdslipdiff

Very interested in this as know of several cars with DPF problems....most being attributed to poor quality fuel and incorrect oil type/service interval changes. Speak people !!!

shamwari

I topped the additive up in my wife's car (CMax 1.6TDCi) and cleared the codes. There was a code (P2002) for DPF efficiency being below threshold, but this was cleared and stayed clear after the additive was replaced. So it might be the case that your DPF does not need replacing yet.

How many miles on your car OP?

Edit: should add that IMHO, a DPF remap should not be done on a 2008 car onwards. These cars have a much lower emission limit in the NCT, and will fail the test if the DPF is not properly operational. The price of DPF's will come down over time, in the same way that catalytic converters were horribly expensive when they first came out. You'll be able to go to the likes of an exhaust centre to get them fitted.

vectra

shamwari wrote: »

Edit: should add that IMHO, a DPF remap should not be done on a 2008 car onwards. These cars have a much lower emission limit in the NCT, and will fail the test if the DPF is not properly operational. The price of DPF's will come down over time, in the same way that catalytic converters were horribly expensive when they first came out. You'll be able to go to the likes of an exhaust centre to get them fitted.

I thought diesels were tested on smoke/soot and not emissions

voxpop

oceallaigh wrote: »

* The particlate filter reduces smoke, but the 90bhp is fine without one. The 110bhp car won't fail the nct after the dpf has been removed because it will only have marginally more smoke than the 90bhp and smoke is only really a factor when the engine is "loaded". Because the car is static during the NCT, the engine will not be loaded.

The engine is loaded when they do the smoke test. A diesel is not tested on emissions but put through a smoke test which involves red-lining the diesel and taking a reading. Smoke is not related to power - a 90bhp and 130 bhp have the same threshold. There is a different threshold for turbo and non-turbo diesels.

On deleting the DPF, thats another matter - it might just be a case of wiring in a resister to fool the sensors. Never heard of it being done tbh.

maidhc

Dont know the answer to your question, but it sounds like the way of the future and something which should be ripped out if at all possible.

By the way my 2003 Focus 1.8TDCI with 130k miles and no dpf would still pass the 2008 smoke test. It was under 1m-1 when tested in December. The limit is 3m-1, but the post 08 limit is 1.5m-1.

The 1.6 TDCI should be an even cleaner engine.

-Corkie-

Try these guys. They really know their stuff he does a remap and sorts the DPF all in one. http://www.chippedire.com/

shamwari

The emissions (or smoke test) on a diesel involves taking an average of the opacity of the smoke when revving the engine to maximum governed RPM.

According to the NCT manual, the following Opacity limits with regard to the vehicles age apply:

Exhaust Smoke (Vehicles registered on or after 1st January 1980 up to 1st July 2008):

2.5m-1 in the case of naturally aspirated diesel engines and
3.0m-1 in the case of turbo charged or supercharged diesel engines.

Vehicles first registered after 1st July 2008, the following failure reasons apply:

Where the maximum attainable engine speed is less than or equal to 90% of the maximum speed specified by the manufacturer
OR
Where the average smoke meter reading is higher than 1.5m-1

As can be seen from above, the maximum allowable reading has been reduced 50% for post July-08 engines compared with their predecessors. If someone decides to "do away" with their DPF on a July'08 onwards car, then chances are it won't stand an asses roar of passing the emissions test at NCT.

There are a number of groups about who claim to be able to reprogram the ECU so that it thinks there is no DPF present and won't display a fault indication if one occurs. Unless such reprograming include removal of the DPF then I wouldn't bother going down the road of getting the car reprogrammed. A DPF which does not regenerate when required will eventually clog and that will cause more more problems.

As I said earlier, I reckon that DPF replacement will over time become just like getting a CAT or a silencer replaced, and your local exhaust centre will do it for you. Going the whole hog and reprogramming the ECU, with the possible risk of creating problems as I've already described, is not the route I personally would choose, or recommend.

shamwari

vectra wrote: »

I thought diesels were tested on smoke/soot and not emissions

If it comes out of the exhaust, its emissions! They call it a smoke test on a diesel because they are reading the density (or opacity) of the smoke.

Matt Simis

shamwari wrote: »

As can be seen from above, the maximum allowable reading has been reduced 50% for post July-08 engines compared with their predecessors. If someone decides to "do away" with their DPF on a July'08 onwards car, then chances are it won't stand an asses roar of passing the emissions test at NCT.

Considering how easy it is to reduce Diesel Ssmoke with additives or different fuel blends, I seriously doubt that.
Reading the "opacity" of the smoke with no regard to whats actually in the emission is a great example of whats wrong with the C02 Tax fiasco.

shamwari

vectra wrote: »

I thought diesels were tested on smoke/soot and not emissions

voxpop wrote: »

The engine is loaded when they do the smoke test.

The engine is not loaded. The it revved to maximum governed speed OFF LOAD (i.e. car in neutral). You could only load the engine as such if the car was for example, on a rolling road.

shamwari

Matt Simis wrote: »

Considering how easy it is to reduce Diesel Ssmoke with additives or different fuel blends, I seriously doubt that.
Reading the "opacity" of the smoke with no regard to whats actually in the emission is a great example of whats wrong with the C02 Tax fiasco.

I've never used an additive on a common railer and I'll tell you why.

Firstly, think about this: how can an additive clean an injector which operates at the kind of pressures that common railers do? The sheer pressure at the nozzles means nothing will stay attached that will foul them up. The older mechanical injectors of yesteryear did respond well because the nozzle tips used to carbon-up on them, but their working pressures are lower than the CR stuff.

Secondly, the tolerances are so fine inside a CR pump that if you run them on anything other than proper fuel, you run the risk of cavitation. I wouldn't risk putting anything through a CR other than what's supposed to go through it, namely diesel. Others naturally will disagree and wax lyrical about throwing in Dipetane and so on, but personally, I'm just not bought by the need for that on the modern stuff.

Thirdy, I have seen a car with a cracked DPF (a Focus) and it was noticibly smokier than it was when healthy.

Bottom line is that the DPF is fitted for a reason: to keep the smoke emissions down to limits where they are supposed to be.

maidhc

shamwari wrote: »

As can be seen from above, the maximum allowable reading has been reduced 50% for post July-08 engines compared with their predecessors. If someone decides to "do away" with their DPF on a July'08 onwards car, then chances are it won't stand an asses roar of passing the emissions test at NCT.

Obviously you didn't see my post above, so I will quote:

By the way my 2003 Focus 1.8TDCI with 130k miles and no dpf would still pass the 2008 smoke test. It was under 1m-1 when tested in December.

That is a fact and not opinion.

Matt Simis

shamwari wrote: »

I've never used an additive on a common railer and I'll tell you why.

Bottom line is that the DPF is fitted for a reason: to keep the smoke emissions down to limits where they are supposed to be.

I on the otherhand live in the world outside text books and uber conservative manufacturer guidelines and do these zany things all the time.
Try some practical time instead of the theory.

mullingar

A new combined cat/dpf unit for the 110hp Focus is not much more than that chip (excl fitting):

http://www.cats-direct-shop.co.uk/dpf-details.php?ID=BM11005H

shamwari

Matt Simis wrote: »

I on the otherhand live in the world outside text books and uber conservative manufacturer guidelines and do these zany things all the time.

Good luck to you so.

Matt Simis wrote: »

Try some practical time instead of the theory.

And do what exactly? Take risks with customers cars that I wouldn't take with my own? :rolleyes:

mullingar wrote: »

A new combined cat/dpf unit for the 110hp Focus is not much more than that chip (excl fitting):

http://www.cats-direct-shop.co.uk/dpf-details.php?ID=BM11005H

That's cheap for a DPF, but not cheap enough for some to want to remove it completely, despite the fact that a DPF actually serves a useful purpose.

Matt Simis

shamwari wrote: »

Good luck to you so.
And do what exactly? Take risks with customers cars that I wouldn't take with my own? :rolleyes:

Oh I assumed you had your own vehicles to test on.

Gary ITR

-Corkie- wrote: »

Try these guys. They really know their stuff he does a remap and sorts the DPF all in one. http://www.chippedire.com/

Yup, I was only chatting to them about it last week, just idle conversation mind, diesel is the fuel of the devil

oceallaigh

..thanks to all that replied to my post. The first thing I'll do is top-up the additive (EUR50 per litre) and take it for a long drive. Hopefully that'll clear everything. If it doesn't I might well end up removing the dpf and re-mapping (total EUR350)....will see.


Thanks.
oceallaigh

shamwari

You need to reset the PCM if you are topping up yourself. If you don't have the correct equipment to do that, I can PM you the procedure to reset it manually.

Row

I know someone who has the dpf removed + remap on a 06 407 1.6hdi (same engine as the focus)
Every 2-300mls it trys to regenerate the dpf,durning this regen the engine advances the timing which creates blue smoke from the exhaust and lose of power....if he switches off/on engine its back up to full power.
I think the remap needs to be tweeked alittle to iron out these problems.

Usally the dpf's should not need looking at till around 120,000mls but as said above the additive fluid may need to be topped up and system reset.

As shamwari has said i'd be wary in removing the dpf totally as your car may have problems getting tru the nct's emissions test in the future...but the choice is yours....:)
On the 1.6/2.0 hdi's the dpf's can be removed cleaned and refitted which is pretty successful.

@ shamwari....how is the additive system reset on the focus...?
what diagnostic equipment can do this...?

voxpop

Row wrote: »

creates blue smoke from the exhaust and lose of power

That doesnt sound good - blue smoke=burning oil

shamwari

Row wrote: »

I know someone who has the dpf removed + remap on a 06 407 1.6hdi (same engine as the focus)
Every 2-300mls it trys to regenerate the dpf,durning this regen the engine advances the timing which creates blue smoke from the exhaust and lose of power....if he switches off/on engine its back up to full power.
I think the remap needs to be tweeked alittle to iron out these problems.

Usally the dpf's should not need looking at till around 120,000mls but as said above the additive fluid may need to be topped up and system reset.

As shamwari has said i'd be wary in removing the dpf totally as your car may have problems getting tru the nct's emissions test in the future...but the choice is yours....:)
On the 1.6/2.0 hdi's the dpf's can be removed cleaned and refitted which is pretty successful.

@ shamwari....how is the additive system reset on the focus...?
what diagnostic equipment can do this...?

Thanks for the endorsement above Row!

The PCM on the Fords needs to be reset when the EOLYS is added, and I've done this using IDS. It has an option to configure the EOLYS module metering and levels. The DTC's are shown with MIL activation and "Engine systems fault" when the module reports the EOLYS level below 0.3L. The module holds about 1.5L but it wont use the last 0.3L. It may do this because the EOLYS might be hydroscopic, so running the tank till empty might inject water and other nasties into the main fuel tank.

The alternative procedure if IDS is not available is a seqeunce of key on / key off / open fuel filler flap / close fuel filler flap to reset the PCM. I have a note on it which I will PM yourself and the OP if you want it.

In addition, it may be the case that if the DPF is replaced that the PCM might need to be told this through IDS. I'm not 100% sure on this but I can make a phone call and find out

shamwari

voxpop wrote: »

That doesnt sound good - blue smoke=burning oil

No necessarily. During DPF regeneratipon, the extra heat needed for it is achieved by injecting additional diesel during the exhaust stroke. Diesel burning under such conditions, and with no DPF to act as a filter, may well emit as blue!

Row

shamwari wrote: »

The alternative procedure if IDS is not available is a seqeunce of key on / key off / open fuel filler flap / close fuel filler flap to reset the PCM. I have a note on it which I will PM yourself and the OP if you want it.

That would be great if you could send this on...:cool:

With Peugeot/Citroen there are counters that need to be reset to zero after a eloys topup....usally at 130 grams they bring up the additive low warning message...0 grams is after been topped up.
There is a new type of additive available for peugeot/citroen,But I'm not sure if it can be mixed with the older eloys...
Peugeot additive fluid....eolys powerflex http://www.rhodia.com/en/news_center/news_releases/Silcea_Eolys_PowerFlex__for_diesel_vehicles_09_09_15.tcm

Citroen additive fluid is infineum F7995.

shamwari

Procedure PM'd to ROW and the OP.

Row

shamwari wrote: »

Procedure PM'd to ROW and the OP.

Thanks shamwari....I owe you one...;)

mullingar

Can somebody PM it to me?

Im curious to see if its the same procedure that's detailed in the Haynes manual

Cheers

shamwari

Row wrote: »

Thanks shamwari....I owe you one...;)

My pleasure!!

Raffo1892

Any chance I could have the procedure pm'd to me too?

Hopping The Border

shamwari wrote: »

Good luck to you so.

That's cheap for a DPF, but not cheap enough for some to want to remove it completely, despite the fact that a DPF actually serves a useful purpose.

Shamwari - In the situation where the DPF needs to be replaced (despite replenishing the additive and resetting the computer the fault has occurred again) what do you think of replacing it with a non branded model?

I have an 06 1.6tdi 110 Ford focus.

Ford garage quoting €650 + vat for the filter whereas non branded appears to be much cheaper at £200 in from the UK.

Neither price includes the new additive which presumably will be required nor the labour for installing it.

Hellrazer

Just a quick note to add to this.

The Kit for regening the Fords is roughly 230+vat

The exact same kit for a Volvo is 90 or thereabouts + vat.

But the Volvo one and save yourself a few quid.

Volvo Part number is 1161752



Also while we`re at it Ive had customers of mine get the dpf removed completely and ecu reprogrammed.

Absolutely no issues ever again with that dreaded DPF gone.Theyve all passed the NCT without ever failing on the smoke test.
If I had a 1.6 or 2.0 diesel Ford/Volvo/Puegeot its the first thing Id do ie remove the dpf forever.

shamwari

Hopping The Border wrote: »

Shamwari - In the situation where the DPF needs to be replaced (despite replenishing the additive and resetting the computer the fault has occurred again) what do you think of replacing it with a non branded model?

It's probably no more of risk using any other non-genuine part on a car. The price differential is hard to ignore in these austere times. I've also heard tell of a means of cleaning out and old DPF so I'd enquire about that too. Replacement non-genuine DPF's are now more commonplace than previous because the demand for them is growing. I'm almost certain that in the UK, old DPF's are supposed to be recycled and reused!

If you are replacing the DPF yourself on the 1.6TDCi (or even getting your mechanic to do it) then you also need to replace the clamp that attaches the DPF to the turbo. The original goes out of shape and cannot be reused. It wont seal properly and will allow exhaust fumes to leak out.

shamwari

Raffo1892 wrote: »

Any chance I could have the procedure pm'd to me too?

Sorry, only saw this now. PM sent.

Kingcalumn

Ive recently bought a Volvo S40 which has had the DPF removed - I didnt know about it at the time and had numerous errors from the replacement software acting up on it. Volvo have reset the software, however as the DPF is missing, I either need to replace the DPF or get the software remapped.

My question is - how does the remapping affect my insurance? I currently have the car cutting into limp mode which is annoying and need to get it sorted out either way, however dont want to risk my insurance being null and void.

My other option is to buy a spurious filter (c EUR250) and have it fitted by a garage.

Hellrazer, Shamwari - any ideas?

Hellrazer

Kingcalumn wrote: »

Ive recently bought a Volvo S40 which has had the DPF removed - I didnt know about it at the time and had numerous errors from the replacement software acting up on it. Volvo have reset the software, however as the DPF is missing, I either need to replace the DPF or get the software remapped.

My question is - how does the remapping affect my insurance? I currently have the car cutting into limp mode which is annoying and need to get it sorted out either way, however dont want to risk my insurance being null and void.

My other option is to buy a spurious filter (c EUR250) and have it fitted by a garage.

Hellrazer, Shamwari - any ideas?

First things first-Remapping shouldn't affect your insurance.

If I were you Id contact the previous owner if at all possible and find out if they know who removed the DPF.

If you cant find that out Coby Autos on the Naas road might be able to redo the remapping and put it back so the ecu thinks there is a DPF there.

But again anytime it goes to a Volvo main dealer their software will always over write any remapping done so it sin your best interest to find someone who can reload the dpf removal software.

I wouldn't bother putting a dpf back on the car either as it will cause you nothing but bother further down the road.

dougie-lampkin

The DPF is just a flag in the ECU, you change one digit from 1 to 0. It's not a remap, as no maps are modified, it's just a parameter change. The only way Volvo would overwrite it is if they update the ECU firmware, which is rare. It's not something that they'd usually do unless you have an engine fault that's fixed by a patch. It definitely wouldn't be done every service, unless you ask and pay for it. Most cars are still running on the factory firmware.

I know in the PSA fitted 1.6, you can disable the DPF (and associated functions like overfuelling, additive control, etc.) entirely through the diagnostic software. I'm not sure what the Ford and Volvo equivalents have though.

DPF removal should have no impact on your insurance. It is illegal, and is technically an NCT failure. But as it makes no difference to the smoke opacity reading, they have no way of telling if it's fitted or not. If it was my car, I'd be removing it and drilling through the filter. As said above, on PSA and Ford cars the lower powered 1.6 does without one just fine.

Hellrazer

dougie-lampkin wrote: »

It's not a remap, as no maps are modified, it's just a parameter change. The only way Volvo would overwrite it is if they update the ECU firmware, which is rare.

Its not rare at all-every single time a Volvo is plugged in to VIDA it automatically updates anything that needs updating or else resets the parameters to stock.

In Kingcalums case Id say that this what happened .ie he showed up in his local dealer with errors that are possibly unrelated to the DPF and it reset the parameters to stock.

Since you cant remove a dpf using Volvo software his only option is to get the DPF removal software done at whoever did it in the first place or in another place that carries out this procedure.

It's not something that they'd usually do unless you have an engine fault that's fixed by a patch. It definitely wouldn't be done every service, unless you ask and pay for it. Most cars are still running on the factory firmware.

It actually is something that is done every service.Its automatic as soon as its plugged in.

zg3409

I am looking to contact shamwari but he does not allow PMs.

I see you said you had the procedure to reset the DPF light for a 1.6 Focus. I have a Mazda 3 1.6 and I think it has the exact same engine. Can you send me the procedure. Thanks.

bazz26

He closed his user account dude.

joe912

[QUOTE=shamwari;702650



That's cheap for a DPF, but not cheap enough for some to want to remove it completely, despite the fact that a DPF actually serves a useful purpose.[/QUOTE]

you would struggle to find a person in the world other than some green activist who loves cycling in the rain to agree with you on that.
they cause expensive problems and take power from the engine. the best thing anybody can do with one of these is open it up take the crap out of it and throw it away. get the ecu remapped aand drive away carefree (and with better mpg and power)

mullingar

On a 1.6 Focus, there is a very simple non-ecu modification that can be done to stop the ecu looking for the dpf if you have gutted the dpf already. I have done two of these and no error codes yet.

The dpf has two pressure ports leading to a differential pressure sensor located beside the battery. The ECU monitors this pressure differential and once it reaches a certain high level, it flags for a regeneration. If the ecu detects no differential over a period of time, such as if the filter is removed, the dpf differential pressures will always be equal then it reports an error.

The simple fix is just disconnect the lower pipe so the differential sensor will be comparing the fluctuating exhaust back pressure to ambient, ie a perfect unblocked dpf.