Jean McConville's Daughter considering running against Gerry Adams

martic

While I feel for the family of Jean McConville it seems like anyone with any sort of gripe is starting to put themselves forward for a very important position if successful,what I'm trying to say is would it not be better for a lot of these potential politicians to run for local government and cut there teeth there first before trying to jump head first into the Dail, we need strong people to get us out of the mess we are in and i don't see what some of these people could bring to the table.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0123/sinnfein.html

Einhard

Looking at SF's manifesto, I don't really see what they bring to the table either, except noisy protest and economically illiterate, populist policies.

As for Jean McConville's daughter, I wish her all the best. Too many people are too ready to forget the atrocities that were carried out by the IRA, and justified by Sinn Fein. If she does nothing more than make people think before voting for Adams then she'll have made an important contribution.

lugha

I would broadly agree that single issue candidates are not a good thing. But I doubt if she has serious expectations of winning. I think it is to try and stop Adams from winning. It will certainly make the campaign more interesting in Louth.

And I don’t think Adams has put in his apprenticeship at a local politician in Louth either.

supersaintpats

That's the glory of politics, the right to stand in an election is not the preserve of any one group or individuals, and the electoral contest is open to all. It's called democracy. Then sit back for five years, and watch the fireworks!

hallelujajordan

Einhard wrote: »

Looking at SF's manifesto, I don't really see what they bring to the table either, except noisy protest and economically illiterate, populist policies.

As for Jean McConville's daughter, I wish her all the best. Too many people are too ready to forget the atrocities that were carried out by the IRA, and justified by Sinn Fein. If she does nothing more than make people think before voting for Adams then she'll have made an important contribution.

If nothing else, Jean McConville's daughter will show us a side to Sinn Fein that they want us to forget.

RandomName2

Perhaps 'We haven't gone away, you know' will have a different meaning for SF in this context.

If an MP such as Adams can come south he should expect the shadows of violence to cast a spectre upon his election prospects.

I'm expecting Adams to plain ignore McConville. After all, trotting out one liners about her mother being an informer getting just deserts would not square very well with him attempting to cut a figure as a respectable politician attempting to get elected to our national parliament, no?

Oh well, either way I'm sure he's expecting a 'spectacular' performance. Geddit?

Wolfe Tone

She wont win, pointless her running, what would she do if she somehow won?


Gerry is pretty immune at this stage to this type of thing.

sligopark

Good to hear - hope they have the balls to do it - can't see Gerry ignore this one given according to Darkie Hughes, Adams ordered her shot and then had her buried on a beach there in Louth.

Karma and all that - hope Jean McConville can save us all from a SF oppostion leadership.

lugha

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

She wont win, pointless her running, what would she do if she somehow won?

No she won't. But she might do enough damage to Adams to stop him winning.

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Gerry is pretty immune at this stage to this type of thing.

He hasn't had to deal with this before in a Southern election. It is not easy to duck any election issue for an entire campaign.

PomBear

She'd be disliked even by victims of the Troubles though, Jean was a suspected informer while many were innocent and families will fail to see the connection with their losses. That's the impression i've got from speaking to victims of the Troubles.

supersaintpats

sligopark wrote: »

Good to hear - hope they have the balls to do it - can't see Gerry ignore this one given according to Darkie Hughes, Adams ordered her shot and then had her buried on a beach there in Louth.

Karma and all that - hope Jean McConville can save us all from a SF oppostion leadership.

why assume they are going to be in opposition? It is a very fluid and volatile electorate out there; essentially all bets are off, especially given the volatile character of the PR system. So it will be uniquely interesting if a candidate linked to the "disappeared" is on the same constituency list as Gerry Adams.

sparkling sea

hallelujajordan wrote: »

If nothing else, Jean McConville's daughter will show us a side to Sinn Fein that they want us to forget.

Couldn't agree more, also I would think Helen McKendry knows only too well how to take on and win given that she did start the campaign that eventually saw the IRA finally agreeing to give locations of the bodies of the so-called 'Disappeared', 9 of whos bodies have so far been recovered.

This woman is no walkover nor is she inexperienced in dealing with sensitive polical issues. Hopefully the truth will out with regards to Adams in this campaign - I wish her every success

Wolfe Tone

lugha wrote: »

No she won't. But she might do enough damage to Adams to stop him winning.

Not a chance tbh.

He hasn't had to deal with this before in a Southern election. It is not easy to duck any election issue for an entire campaign.

It depends how he responds to it, does he go with the "she was a tout" line or something else?

Wolfe Tone

supersaintpats wrote: »

why assume they are going to be in opposition? It is a very fluid and volatile electorate out there; essentially all bets are off, especially given the volatile character of the PR system. So it will be uniquely interesting if a candidate linked to the "disappeared" is on the same constituency list as Gerry Adams.

Quite frankly a lot of people wont even know who she is when it comes to looking at the ballot paper, different second name and all.

martic

Whilst I agree she has a democratic right to run for election and I'd hate to ever have the misfortune of seeing Gerry Adams sitting in Dail Eireann, I don't think it will take one womans election campaign to highlight the type of people Sinn Fein "are, were" and who they represent and the atrocities their military wing committed during the troubles,my point is if this country is to get out of the mess it is in at the minute we are going to need strong people to run for government.

sligopark

PomBear wrote: »

Jean was a suspected informer.

Darkie Hughes made this point and confirmed it but the point is Gerry has denied not only putting her to the bullet but that he ever was a member of the Prov. IRA and so a confirmed liar.

Be nice to show him up for what he is.

lugha

PomBear wrote: »

She'd be disliked even by victims of the Troubles though, Jean was a suspected informer while many were innocent and families will fail to see the connection with their losses. That's the impression i've got from speaking to victims of the Troubles.

Interesting that you have her tried and convicted as an informer, even after using the qualifier “suspected”. No doubt someone from your side will be along to make fine points in law about the presumption of innocence in relation to Adams involvement.

BTW I find the faux attempt at cordiality in referring to her as “Jean” most distasteful, given where you stand on the matter.

later12

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

She wont win, pointless her running

Even if she doesn't win, it isn't pointless. In running, she has a strong platform from which to remind the voting public that while Jean McConville may have been tossed to the history books, the grief of victims under Sinn Féin IRA Terrorism still remains very much intact. It may be enough to damage the Adams vote significantly, and in many people's eyes, that would in itself be a victory.

It will be interesting to watch Adam's position through the campaign towards McConville.

Wolfe Tone

Just to refresh is the woman who had the transmitter on top of a lift in the (I think) Divis flats?

lugha

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Not a chance tbh.

I wouldn't be entirely sure about that. I suspect, like anywhere, that there is a lot of decent people in Louth.

It depends how he responds to it, does he go with the "she was a tout" line or something else?

I almost hope he does,as that would definitely damage him . But I doubt if he would be so stupid.
No, I think he will have to persist with his denial line.

amacachi

lugha wrote: »

No she won't. But she might do enough damage to Adams to stop him winning.

The kind of people who'll be voting for Sinn Fein this time over and above their usual votes aren't the kind of people who would be awake when canvassers call.

amacachi

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Just to refresh is the woman who had the transmitter on top of a lift in the (I think) Divis flats?

Adams is the guy (I think) who murdered people? This is fun.

Biggins

Not a chance of her defeating him or stopping him get elected.
While admirable that her stance would be, it would be a fruitless one for the single reason for it and at this juncture in our history, would be distracting from now bigger issues that are NOW of more immediate importance.

She to be again honest, would only be working herself up for a large fall, stress included and for nothing really to gain.

Bottle_of_Smoke

She won't stop Gerry from getting a seat but her standing in Louth will no doubt be bad for Sinn Fein's overall campaign. Possibly the reason she's doing it

bastados

The (R)IRA showed their true worth with the callous slaughter of Tom Oliver in 1991 , a neighbour of Arthur Morgan coincidently.

https://www.tribune.ie/archive/article/2002/may/12/no-sympathy-in-cooley-for-rira-arms-dealers/

...when war is over soldiers need to stand down.

later12

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Just to refresh is the woman who had the transmitter on top of a lift in the (I think) Divis flats?

Don't know, I would think even more of her if she did. Regardless of what you might think of the RUC as they were, I don't see how informing on the IRA could possibly have been a bad thing. One would hope that any decent human being would inform on an organisation that performed acts as nauseating as theirs.

Wolfe Tone

lugha wrote: »

I wouldn't be entirely sure about that. I suspect, like anywhere, that there is a lot of decent people in Louth.

I resent the implication that a "decent person" wouldnt vote for Gerry.

I almost hope he does,as that would definitely damage him . But I doubt if he would be so stupid.
No, I think he will have to persist with his denial line.

We have had all this stuff before with Morgan, Louth(especially north) is quite the republican stronghold.

Wolfe Tone

later10 wrote: »

Don't know, I would think even more of her if she did. Regardless of what you might think of the RUC as they were, I don't see how informing on the IRA could possibly have been a bad thing. One would hope that any decent human being would inform on an organisation that performed acts as nauseating as theirs.

It was in 1972, you cant see how informing on the IRA to the RUC was a bad thing?

Bottle_of_Smoke

lugha wrote: »

Interesting that you have her tried and convicted as an informer, even after using the qualifier “suspected”. No doubt someone from your side will be along to make fine points in law about the presumption of innocence in relation to Adams involvement.

BTW I find the faux attempt at cordiality in referring to her as “Jean” most distasteful, given where you stand on the matter.

I think anyone who doubts she was an informer or that Adams ordered her death is fooling themselves

mikemac

If the thread title was Helen McKendry considering running against Gerry Adams then few enough would know who she is
And that's the name that will be on the ballot paper.

She'll have to get her message out there and very little time to do it

Voters will see McKendry and will they even associate it to McConville? I wouldn't have anyway though others know more then me

lugha

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I resent the implication that a "decent person" wouldnt vote for Gerry.

The implication was that a normal decent person would not be indifferent to a suggestion that a candidate presented to them in the election might be a murderer.

Some of the younger votes may not remember the PIRA campaign and see SF as just a radical left wing party. This might show them a broader picture.

Wolfe Tone

lugha wrote: »

The implication was that a normal decent person would not be indifferent to a suggestion that a candidate presented to them in the election might be a murderer.

Some of the younger votes may not remember the PIRA campaign and see SF as just a radical left wing party. This might show them a broader picture.

Are you honestly saying that there are people who have never heard of the IRA and their connection to SF? LOL

So he allegedly ordered the execution of an informer in 1972. Incredibly stupid of her to be informing after she was warned.

Sand

Id be glad to see it. If she wins or not is immaterial, Gerry Adams will be forced to defend his record - his entire record - throughout the campaign, and the public will be reminded exactly who Sinn Fein are, and what they represent. Also as Sinn Fein get rattled, youll see the older, uglier side of their PR re-emerge. Their attempts to justify the murder of a mother of 10 will not cut much ice with Irish voters.

So he allegedly ordered the execution of an informer in 1972. Incredibly stupid of her to be informing after she was warned.

See - this will play well in Belfast. It wont play well in Ireland in general.

lugha

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

I think anyone who doubts she was an informer or that Adams ordered her death is fooling themselves

Fine. I have ever made a definitive statement on whether either of these claims are true or not. Like almost everybody else, I don't know for certain but I can so some reasonable surmising.

My beef is with those who take the republican line that she was an informer as an irrefutable fact but insist that proof should be forthcoming if you want to assert that Adams was in the PIRA.

RandomName2

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

So he allegedly ordered the execution of an informer in 1972. Incredibly stupid of her to be informing after she was warned.

Veronica Guerin was incredibly stupid too going by that logic.

(well actually she probably didn't show the best judgement in putting her life in danger, but that is hardly the point)

In terms of whether or not McConville was an informer to the police is a moot point as the only information concerning that comes from a terrorist organisation, who are at the best of times economical with the truth, who in this context are attempting to justify a murder of a catholic civilian mother.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Sand wrote: »

See - this will play well in Belfast. It wont play well in Ireland in general.

That's what I'm thinking. Though it will probably be understood in Dundalk as much as Belfast. It will hit the vote tallies of people like Mary-Lou McDonald/Pearse Doherty etc much worse

drunkmonkey

bastados wrote: »

...when war is over soldiers need to stand down.

It's not over isn't that the whole problem, Gerry Adams, me and a whole load more people want to see a United Ireland before he dies, if he's not give the opportunity to push from this side we'll never see the island united.

The country's in the crapper there's no better time to get this thing finished.

ian malcolm

Hey,
can you not see how cleansing this would be for all of Ireland.
Confronting Gerry Adams,to see if he will be arranging to bury his Fianna Fail opponents on the beaches of Louth.
The world needs to see that 'we' the Irish people have ethics,that are not bought out by Tiger money.
Go for it

---

no one can fix this economy untill the US and UK pull out of recession.

lugha

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Are you honestly saying that there are people who have never heard of the IRA and their connection to SF? LOL

I'm sure they know it. But it is one thing knowing something as a vague historical fact. It is another to see evidence of it personified in one of the victims who is campaigning in the election.

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

So he allegedly ordered the execution of an informer in 1972. Incredibly stupid of her to be informing after she was warned.

An excellent demonstration of my point in my previous post. Notice the qualifier "allegedly" applied to Adams but omitted from McConville

Wolfe Tone

RandomName2 wrote: »

Veronica Guerin was incredibly stupid too going by that logic.

(well actually she probably didn't show the best judgement in putting her life in danger, but that is hardly the point)

In terms of whether or not McConville was an informer to the police is a moot point as the only information concerning that comes from a terrorist organisation, who are at the best of times economical with the truth, who in this context are attempting to justify a murder of a catholic civilian mother.

I dont think the two are at all comparable. Big difference between what she did and being a tout in the Falls road in 72.

later12

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

It was in 1972, you cant see how informing on the IRA to the RUC was a bad thing?

Nope. I have nothing good to say about the RUC in general, but at least there has been some level of official recognition of their abuses. But one doesn't cancel out the other; the IRA in all of their various forms were terrorists. Simple as. They performed acts of tremendous political and human damage and have achieved precisely nothing. I would have a problem with people who knew of atrocities and knew who was responsible for those atrocities, yet stayed silent. History never favours the silent man. Many people in the North knew how to protest, the IRA did not.

Like I said, I have no sympathy for the RUC at all. But imagine them running for election?

Generally I wish that entire province with its inbred, pathologically inward looking politics had nothing to do with the Republic at all.

Wolfe Tone

lugha wrote: »

I'm sure they know it. But it is one thing knowing something as a vague historical fact. It is another to see evidence of it personified in one of the victims who is campaigning in the election.

In 20 years time that may be the case. Not today.

An excellent demonstration of my point in my previous post. Notice the qualifier "allegedly" applied to Adams but omitted from McConville

I dont know if he personally ordered it, its a fact the IRA did it, just as it is that she was an informer.

The General.

She doesnt stand a chance of winning anything. There are way more supporters for gerry adams and sinn fein than there ever will be for the daughter of an informant during the troubles. She knows this herself, and im sure she doesnt have the money either to go up against gerry adams when it comes to canvassing and posters and leaflets and all other stuff like that needed for trying to win votes.

PomBear

PomBear wrote: »

She'd be disliked even by victims of the Troubles though, Jean was a suspected informer while many were innocent

wait a minute there - anyone who worked against nutjobs blowing up shopping centers and risked their lives doing so is a hero.

Or is it that you back the murder of civilians and see shopping centers as "economic targets". Loony stuff.

lugha

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

In 20 years time that may be the case. Not today.

Don't know what point you are making here?

I dont know if he personally ordered it, its a fact the IRA did it, just as it is that she was an informer.

I see. It's a "fact" that she was an informer. Can you remind me of the tortuous trail through the relevant courts, detailing the appeals and judgements etc that now have us in the happy position of being able to assert this as a fact?

RandomName2

lugha wrote: »

I see. It's a "fact" that she was an informer. Can you remind me of the tortuous trail through the relevant courts, detailing the appeals and judgements etc that now have us in the happy position of being able to assert this as a fact?

If they tortured her perhaps they extracted a 'confession' that satisfied the IRA members? That is, if their retrospective justification was honest in the first place.

Wolfe Tone

lugha wrote: »

Don't know what point you are making here?


I see. It's a "fact" that she was an informer. Can you remind me of the tortuous trail through the relevant courts, detailing the appeals and judgements etc that now have us in the happy position of being able to assert this as a fact?

It int exactly a vague historical fact. In 20 years perhaps.


Tell me, why then was she, warned, and months later shot? For the lols?

ian malcolm

This is great democracy in action.
Confront cowards at the ballot box.
Mc Convillles daughter doesnt even have to stand and complete the Dail process-
her function is truth--
even a speaking tour will be enough to put pressure on all SF candidates.
If Brian Cowen has to be accountable,then roll on democratic Sinn Fein--
ANSWER THE QUESTIONS

BlaasForRafa

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I dont think the two are at all comparable. Big difference between what she did and being a tout in the Falls road in 72.

Its comments like yours that make a lot of people in this country despise Sinn Fein and its supporters.

Wolfe Tone

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Its comments like yours that make a lot of people in this country despise Sinn Fein and its supporters.

Cheers for the insightful input.

Amazotheamazing

later10 wrote: »

Nope. I have nothing good to say about the RUC in general, but at least there has been some level of official recognition of their abuses. But one doesn't cancel out the other; the IRA in all of their various forms were terrorists. Simple as. They performed acts of tremendous political and human damage and have achieved precisely nothing. I would have a problem with people who knew of atrocities and knew who was responsible for those atrocities, yet stayed silent. History never favours the silent man. Many people in the North knew how to protest, the IRA did not.

Like I said, I have no sympathy for the RUC at all. But imagine them running for election?

Generally I wish that entire province with its inbred, pathologically inward looking politics had nothing to do with the Republic at all.

Exactly, if there's any silver-lining to the disaster that is the Irish economy then it's that it pushes off a united Ireland for several more generations.

Even if Jean McConville was an informer, does that mean it's suddenly ok to kidnap her, torture her, kill her and dump her body? Is that ok anywhere?