A.P Mccoy or ruby walsh?

mixed up

I know they are both brilliant jockeys who have achieved everything in the sport but who do you prefer?I rather ruby myself.Mccoy said himself if master minded lost today he wouldn't of forgiven himself and to be fair he didn't give it a great ride.I wonder would kauto star of ran as bad in the king george if ruby was on him we'll never know.The question i'm asking is if you had a brilliant race racehorse who would you rather on board?I'd pick ruby any day of the week.

mike65

Not this again!

Answer - great horse Ruby, any other horse A.P.

Nulty

Depends...probably Ruby

mdwexford

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055785079&highlight=ruby

Morgans

I think McCoy has been poor this year. Not sure if the huge appetite is still there. Was awful on master minded yesterday. Not sure Ruby ever got back to his best after his injury two years ago. I dont think either are the best out there at the moment. All in all, Ruby better jockey.

UrbanSea

O'Neill's horses haven't been up to scratch either.Wonder how long he'll be around for.

Bullettooth

mike65 wrote: »

Not this again!

Answer - great horse Ruby, any other horse A.P.

That about sums it up spot on

Nulty

Some plank on the Betfair forum said Hadden Frost is a "truely awful jockey". No one can lay any blame on Frost for not getting Somersby up yesterday. This is slightly off topic but my point is that of all the things that people have opinions about in HR, jockey critiqueing is probably the hardest because so many people haven't a clue what they're talking about when criticising a jockey.

minty16

AP, every single day.

fr wishy washy

Ruby is the finest N H rider I've ever seen,superb hands.

McCoy a great jockey but not as good as R Walsh.

RichieLawlor

I'm a big Jason Maguire fan

minty16

I find this a crazy statement. (fww)IMO this is not even up for debate. You would only find this argument on an Irish MB.

ClutchIt

^^Do you mean that it would be McCoy?

RichieLawlor

minty16 wrote: »

I find this a crazy statement. (fww)IMO this is not even up for debate. You would only find this argument on an Irish MB.

What?

minty16

I don't think that it's up for debate that Ruby Walsh is a better jockey than AP McCoy.. I don't think it would be debated across the water in the way it is debated here. . What's difficult about that?

RichieLawlor

minty16 wrote: »

I don't think that it's up for debate that Ruby Walsh is a better jockey than AP McCoy.. I don't think it would be debated across the water in the way it is debated here. . What's difficult about that?

Lol, that's the most ridiculous thing you have ever posted.

I'd say more people would side with AP tbh

I'd personally be on Rubys side but there's not much in it

minty16

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Lol, that's the most ridiculous thing you have ever posted.

I'd say more people would side with AP tbh

#

I am siding with AP.

RichieLawlor

minty16 wrote: »

#

I am siding with AP.

You make it sound like there is a gulf in class. Both are very very good and it wouldn't be a landslide in either favour

minty16

I personally believe that there is a gulf in class between McCoy and any other jockey. Ala Phil Taylor in darts, Davis in the 80's, Hendry in the 90's. Simply the best.

Morgans

The only place where its questioned is where people have a brain in their heads and dont automatically believe everything they hear in the press or on tv.

Is McCoy not Irish?

minty16

Morgans wrote: »

The only place where its questioned is where people have a brain in their heads and dont automatically believe everything they hear in the press or on tv.

Is McCoy not Irish?

Lol, so Walsh's CV stands up to AP's ? No it doesn't, it doesn't even come close in fact. So you are the only person listening to hyperbole and believing everything you hear on Tv. His Cheltenham record on elite horses makes people think he is of the same level as AP. Not for me . 3,000 winners. End of argument.

And you would have to ask him, although I would say he considers himself British if I had to put money on it.

Morgans

minty16 wrote: »

Lol, so Walsh's CV stands up to AP's ? No it doesn't, it doesn't even come close in fact. So you are the only person listening to hyperbole and believing everything you hear on Tv. His Cheltenham record on elite horses makes people think he is of the same level as AP. Not for me . 3,000 winners. End of argument.

And you would have to ask him, although I would say he considers himself British if I had to put money on it.

This is the pitfall of most spoofers.

"3000 end of arguement." Ridiculous statement made by spoofers.

If the number of winners is the end of the argument, then Richard Johnson is the second greatest jockey of all time. End of arguement.

McCoy is catholic but that has no bearing anywhere on this discussion. But it doesnt mean that Irish people cant discuss his merits objectively.

RichieLawlor

minty16 wrote: »

Lol, so Walsh's CV stands up to AP's ? No it doesn't, it doesn't even come close in fact. So you are the only person listening to hyperbole and believing everything you hear on Tv. His Cheltenham record on elite horses makes people think he is of the same level as AP. Not for me . 3,000 winners. End of argument.

And you would have to ask him, although I would say he considers himself British if I had to put money on it.

Your a nutjob I think:rolleyes:

McCoy is Irish

Ruby has only ridden half as many winners as AP but I reckon he probably has had only half as many rides. He has more big race wins than AP.

AP rides everywhere every day, Ruby is a lot more selective and alternates his time on both sides of the Irish sea.

There is no doubting that McCoy is a class act but to compare his dominance to that of Taylor or Davis is head melting.

Are you for real or do you just post random stuff

minty16

Morgans wrote: »

This is the pitfall of most spoofers.

"3000 end of arguement." Ridiculous statement made by spoofers.

If the number of winners is the end of the argument, then Richard Johnson is the second greatest jockey of all time. End of arguement.

McCoy is catholic but that has no bearing anywhere on this discussion. But it doesnt mean that Irish people cant discuss his merits objectively.

How does that make me a spoofer , it's stone cold fact. For the record I would rate Dickie as a better jockey than Walsh also.

Morgans

minty16 wrote: »

How does that make me a spoofer , it's stone cold fact. For the record I would rate Dickie as a better jockey than Walsh also.

It is not a stone cold fact that the best jockey is the one who wins the most races. That is definite.

That you would rate Johnson better than Walsh reveals a lot.

RichieLawlor

minty16 wrote: »

How does that make me a spoofer , it's stone cold fact. For the record I would rate Dickie as a better jockey than Walsh also.

Now your obv trying to troll. I may have to put you on ignore.

minty16

It is not a 'stone cold fact' no, but it's by far and away the number one indicator. I may come across as a wild poster on here to what seems to be an old guard, but I assure you, I'm deadly serious.

Morgans- It reveals a lot does it? If it wasn't for McCoy Richard Johnson would be a multiple Champion Jockey. He is the most underrated jockey in the business for my money, an excellent pilot in every sense of the word.

At the end of the day this is about opinions. In my opinion, yes Walsh is a superb rider of great horses, but for me, this is not an ingredient of making you a great jockey. Would AP have won the KG on Kauto last year? Would AP have won the world hurdle last year on BB, I think 99 percent of peoplr would agree yes. Would Ruby have won on Wichita or Hennessy ? I think most people would agree not. This is what makes a jockey great - making the minute at times difference between winning and losing - not riding a 20 length winner in a 'stylish' manner. Don't get me wrong, Ruby is a good jockey, but the difference in the amount of times McCoy has made 'that' difference in a horse winning would dwarf Ruby Walshes.

Morgans

minty16 wrote: »

It is not a 'stone cold fact' no, but it's by far and away the number one indicator. I may come across as a wild poster on here to what seems to be an old guard, but I assure you, I'm deadly serious.

Morgans- It reveals a lot does it? If it wasn't for McCoy Richard Johnson would be a multiple Champion Jockey. He is the most underrated jockey in the business for my money, an excellent pilot in every sense of the word.

At the end of the day this is about opinions. In my opinion, yes Walsh is a superb rider of great horses, but for me, this is not an ingredient of making you a great jockey. Would AP have won the KG on Kauto last year? Would AP have won the world hurdle last year on BB, I think 99 percent of peoplr would agree yes. Would Ruby have won on Wichita or Hennessy ? I think most people would agree not. This is what makes a jockey great - making the minute at times difference between winning and losing - not riding a 20 length winner in a 'stylish' manner. Don't get me wrong, Ruby is a good jockey, but the difference in the amount of times McCoy has made 'that' difference in a horse winning would dwarf Ruby Walshes.

See Minty, your last paragraph there is a proper answer and a decent case why McCoy is better. Its not one I believe in, but its a proper reason. Not the 3000 winners bullsh1t. I'd guess he has ridden more losers than anyone ever. God only knows when he returned a Level stakes profit. Roy Keane had the greatest will to win of any soccer player Ive seen, but it doesnt mean he was better than Messi. I'm not impressed by the kitchen sink type of rider. Its great for the punters who back him but its noticeable that horses like Kauto Star (and Best Mate before him) simply dont travel as well with him. There was a time when McCoy rode Brave Inca that it appeared he needed to be driven from a mile out. It was never the case under Barry Cash or Ruby for that matter. Roddi Greene, David Bridgewater and Jamie Moore all could give the kitchen sink but iit doesnt make them better jockeys. I'm surprised how little credit Wichita Linesman and Hennessey gets when they win those races.

minty16

Morgans wrote: »

See Minty, your last paragraph there is a proper answer and a decent case why McCoy is better. Its not one I believe in, but its a proper reason. Not the 3000 winners bullsh1t. I'd guess he has ridden more losers than anyone ever. God only knows when he returned a Level stakes profit. Roy Keane had the greatest will to win of any soccer player Ive seen, but it doesnt mean he was better than Messi. I'm not impressed by the kitchen sink type of rider. Its great for the punters who back him but its noticeable that horses like Kauto Star (and Best Mate before him) simply dont travel as well with him. There was a time when McCoy rode Brave Inca that it appeared he needed to be driven from a mile out. It was never the case under Barry Cash or Ruby for that matter. Roddi Greene, David Bridgewater and Jamie Moore all could give the kitchen sink but iit doesnt make them better jockeys. I'm surprised how little credit Wichita Linesman and Hennessey gets when they win those races.

Did McCoy throw the kitchen sink at Black Jack Ketchum ? Did he throw it at Binocular in the Champion last year ? I've seen AP ride many a stylish race, and in my opinion it is a little bit of a myth that he ''can only bate a horse'. On Brave Inca I always considered him a horse who needed a tough ride. On Hennessy and WL- I think you are being harsh. WL is a horse who always hit a flat spot and needed phenomenal strength and determination to get him out of it. The Hennessy ride was probably the greatest I've seen, and I've yet to change my mind on that one.

Morgans

minty16 wrote: »

Did McCoy throw the kitchen sink at Black Jack Ketchum ? Did he throw it at Binocular in the Champion last year ? I've seen AP ride many a stylish race, and in my opinion it is a little bit of a myth that he ''can only bate a horse'. On Brave Inca I always considered him a horse who needed a tough ride. On Hennessy and WL- I think you are being harsh. WL is a horse who always hit a flat spot and needed phenomenal strength and determination to get him out of it. The Hennessy ride was probably the greatest I've seen, and I've yet to change my mind on that one.

Ive never said that he had to "bate a horse" but its always something of a myth that he carries horses over the line. He gets beaten as many times as he wins in driving finishes but you only ever hear about him giving a "McCoy special" on those who wins. Bellvano at Southwell this month being a good example of him making a huge mistake. Had it been anyone else riding there would have been all sorts thrown at the tv. I think McCoy is very good. I dont think Ruby is the best there at the moment, but he is better than McCoy. I think with horses like Hennessey and Wichita Linesman its about keeping at it on slow horses and their stamina comes into play. Rides that journeymen jockeys who dont give up would win on. Edredon Bleu in the Champion Chase and Make A Stand in the Champion Hurdle are two of the best rides Ive seen him give.

fr wishy washy

minty16 wrote: »

I personally believe that there is a gulf in class between McCoy and any other jockey.

That's tossology,not only Walsh deserves to be in the same sentence as AP,BJ Geraghty deserves to be classified as in the same class and there are others maybe just below them -but not by a gulf.

I honestly think with all due respect that you're on your own with your above statement.

mdwexford

Lol minty you are comedy gold, i just have to laugh at your posts from now on.

minty16

mdwexford wrote: »

Lol minty you are comedy gold, i just have to laugh at your posts from now on.

I like to make a bold statement or two, but if you would actually read my posts and not select your own parts for amusements, which in fairness Morgans has attempted to do, you would see that I am giving an opinion. You may disagree with my opinion, but racing is all about opinions. Do you lads have a tipping comp on this come festival time? If so, cant wait.

mdwexford

The Richard Johnson being better than Ruby part was just too much.

Other people believe McCoy is better than Ruby, i dont of course but ive learned to deal with that.

I enjoy all the banter, wouldnt be as much fun if not.

There is one i think yes.

klairondavis

Walsh is without doubt the superior horseman but McCoy's perserverance and stubborness is without equal. Two great jockeys and you'd have no reservations about backing either of them - similar comments would apply to Geraghty.

BTW, the McCoy ride on Wichita Lineman has to be one of the most overrated rides ever. I think Timmy Murphy's ride on the same horse in his race prior to Cheltenham at Chepstow was superior.

bit of a bogey

Sometimes it a case of horses for courses........................................Sometimes its a case of jockeys for horses


They are two of the best jockeys we have ever seen.

lester76

bit of a bogey wrote: »

Sometimes it a case of horses for courses........................................Sometimes its a case of jockeys for horses


They are two of the best jockeys we have ever seen.

im sure they both have some banter about who is best as they best of pals no?? but im with op they are two great horseman.. two great horseman of many frm this country is ap the top of the tree well id say yes:D

Colonel Sanders

klairondavis wrote: »

Walsh is without doubt the superior horseman but McCoy's perserverance and stubborness is without equal. Two great jockeys and you'd have no reservations about backing either of them

This is my opinion also, and have often said so

I also am slightly resentful to what the likes of Ruby Walsh blatantly get away with on the racecourse (one of the many untouchables in Irish racing). Look at his antics during the Ryanair last year, which possibly cost J'y Vole 2nd place (some people out there think it cost her the race). Also look at the ATR site for the blatant stopping ride he gave Ballytrim in his first beginners chase to see something that a young jockey would have been hung out to dry for

pre

mixed up wrote: »

I know they are both brilliant jockeys who have achieved everything in the sport but who do you prefer?I rather ruby myself.Mccoy said himself if master minded lost today he wouldn't of forgiven himself and to be fair he didn't give it a great ride.I wonder would kauto star of ran as bad in the king george if ruby was on him we'll never know.The question i'm asking is if you had a brilliant race racehorse who would you rather on board?I'd pick ruby any day of the week.

Ruby over fences and A.P. over hurdles

mountai

IMHO not a lot between AP and Ruby but Neither in the same class as
P Townend

Colonel Sanders

mountai wrote: »

IMHO not a lot between AP and Ruby but Neither in the same class as
P Townend

fr wishy washy

mountai wrote: »

IMHO not a lot between AP and Ruby but Neither in the same class as
P Townend

And who do you think Townend is trying to emulate with his hold up-soft hands approach?

Nulty

Warwick 2.15

What a ride!?