Points for Corp Law NUIG

Say hello to my little friend

Thinking of doing B Corp Law next September in NUIG. Can anyone tell me what its like. Why have points come down every year from 495 approx in 2004 to 385 in 2010.

JonSnuuu

I dont know what the course is like but the points system is based on the popularity of the course. so basically the points have dropped because less people have been applying for it! That doesnt necessarily reflect on the quality of the course though!

cat_xx

Im currently in 2nd year corp law and love it! It's hard work and the mix of law and commerce subjects means you can go in either direction at the end of your degree. Alot of people drop out because they hate it and find the course quiet difficult. If your interested in the commerce side of the course its a good one to choose, however if you just want to study law civil would be the way to go!

ledzepkickass

Im a first year doing the course at the moment, i think its quite a good course. Tbh i think the points are too low, it doesnt reflect the work level expected with a lot of the content.

iwishihadaname

It's really like two half courses. If you think you want to go into something on the Commerce side you're better off sticking to the Commerce degree. Otherwise it can be difficult to be eligible for alot of Commerce related postgrads and graduate programmes (aside from accounting programmes) from my experience.
And if you think Law is where you'll end up heading, just do Civil Law cos it saves you a whole year and 6K when you need to do the LLB to be prepared for the FE1s.
I'm in final year, and although I have found it interesting, it's not a great course for the reasons above. That's just my two cents.

Lockstep

It's an interdisciplinary law course.
You can do law with another arts subject through legal science (law with history, law with sociology/politics, law with economics etc)
Corporate Law is law with commerce.

At the end of the degree, you still don't have the necessary subjects to practice law (this goes for legal science and Corp.Law) so both subjects allow you to do an accelerate LLB course (taking one year instead of 3) allowing yo to practice law in Ireland/abroad.

Say hello to my little friend

Thanks for replies. Just on the points issue.
Similar courses elsewhere seem to stay steady enough. Corp law has dropped most years from a high of 495 to a low of 385 in 2010.
Is there any other reason for this other than this course on its own doesnt qualify to sit solicitor entrance exams. Thanks

Supply and demand also plays a part.

The numbers doing the leaving cert have fallen from 64,000 in 1999 to 52,000 in 2007 so points would have dropped generally.

iwishihadaname

Say hello to my little friend wrote: »

Thanks for replies. Just on the points issue.
Similar courses elsewhere seem to stay steady enough. Corp law has dropped most years from a high of 495 to a low of 385 in 2010.
Is there any other reason for this other than this course on its own doesnt qualify to sit solicitor entrance exams. Thanks

ok you seem to be falling into the usual trap where "oh that course has alot of points to get into so it must be good".

As others have already said, points play no part in how good a course is. The points for a course depends how popular the course is. If a course is 385 in 2010, it means the last person to be offered a place on the course in that year got 385 points in their leaving cert.

yeehaw

Lockstep wrote: »

It's an interdisciplinary law course.
You can do law with another arts subject through legal science (law with history, law with sociology/politics, law with economics etc)
Corporate Law is law with commerce.

At the end of the degree, you still don't have the necessary subjects to practice law (this goes for legal science and Corp.Law) so both subjects allow you to do an accelerate LLB course (taking one year instead of 3) allowing yo to practice law in Ireland/abroad.

FAO OP

This post is complete nonsense and you should disregard it.

You can't practice law with any law degree in Ireland. You don't even need a law degree to practice law. You need a third level degree- any one will do- and you need to pass the 8 entrance examinations at Blackhall Place. When you have passed the 8 of those, you have to serve a 3 year apprenticeship. Then you are qualified to practice law.

iwishihadaname

yeehaw wrote: »

FAO OP

This post is complete nonsense and you should disregard it.

You can't practice law with any law degree in Ireland. You don't even need a law degree to practice law. You need a third level degree- any one will do- and you need to pass the 8 entrance examinations at Blackhall Place. When you have passed the 8 of those, you have to serve a 3 year apprenticeship. Then you are qualified to practice law.

Of course, but the majority of people want to have all the subjects covered before they take the exams. It's the done thing in Corporate Law to pick up the subjects that wasn't covered in the undergrad by doing the LLB. You're just making life more difficult for yourself if you want to do law and do an undergrad that doesn't cover all the subjects.

Lockstep

yeehaw wrote: »

FAO OP

This post is complete nonsense and you should disregard it.

You can't practice law with any law degree in Ireland. You don't even need a law degree to practice law. You need a third level degree- any one will do- and you need to pass the 8 entrance examinations at Blackhall Place. When you have passed the 8 of those, you have to serve a 3 year apprenticeship. Then you are qualified to practice law.

If you'd read my post properly, you'd notice that I referred to 'practicing law', not being a solicitor which is what your post refers to. You're completely ignoring barristers (who are also law practitioners).
To sit the entrance examinations in the King's Inn requires a law degree (which the B.Corp is insufficient for, unless the student then does the LLB), or else spending 2 years in the King's Inn diploma course, which requires an approved non-law degree before sitting the Entrance Examinations.


I'd appreciate it if you would source your own arguments before accusing others of talking nonsense.
Thanks

yeehaw

Lockstep wrote: »

If you'd read my post properly, you'd notice that I referred to 'practicing law', not being a solicitor which is what your post refers to. You're completely ignoring barristers (who are also law practitioners).
To sit the entrance examinations in the King's Inn requires a law degree (which the B.Corp is insufficient for, unless the student then does the LLB), or else spending 2 years in the King's Inn diploma course, which requires an approved non-law degree before sitting the Entrance Examinations.


I'd appreciate it if you would source your own arguments before accusing others of talking nonsense.
Thanks

I read your post properly, and you seemed to infer that you could practice law here or overseas with an LLB, which is simply wrong. I would describe getting an LLB as step 1 of 3, with step 2 being passing professional exams, and step 3 completing an apprenticeship/devil.

I accept that I should have mentioned that you need a law degree to sit the exams for King's Inn. However, this does not make your post any less incorrect.

Lockstep

yeehaw wrote: »

I read your post properly, and you seemed to infer that you could practice law here or overseas with an LLB, which is simply wrong. I would describe getting an LLB as step 1 of 3, with step 2 being passing professional exams, and step 3 completing an apprenticeship/devil.

My apologies, perhaps I should have been clearer.

A law degree isn't a licence to practice law in itself (although some jurisdictions like New York require a recognized law degree before they'll allow you to sit the Bar) but it is the quickest/best way to practice in Ireland. There are back doors in (such as teaching yourself the necessary subjects for the FE1s/doing the KI diploma course). I'm not exactly sure what the story is with English law: we were told that the LLB includes the subjects needed to practice law in England although there are other steps to take such as the Legal Practice Course. Not too sure on the exact specifics though.

yeehaw wrote: »

I accept that I should have mentioned that you need a law degree to sit the exams for King's Inn. However, this does not make your post any less incorrect.

I wouldn't say either of us is strictly correct, although neither of us is incorrect either.
My mistake was to refer to 'practicing law', which is misleading. Yours was to refer to law as solely involving solicitors.

Regardless, I'd say the OP has a fair idea of things now.

yeehaw

English law is different again. The subjects required are options within the LLB, so choose wisely. Administrative law is one of the stranger ones you need. There is no real equivalent of the FE-1s in the UK. Instead you do the Legal Practise Course (LPC), which is a year long course with lectures, exams etc. You then have to secure an apprenticeship.

If you qualify in the UK you can do an exam, offered by the Law Scoiety at Blackhall, to practise here- as a solicitor.

I have not discussed practising as a barrister because-
1. The King's Inn's exams, while not easy, are much easier than Fe-1s.
2. More importantly, it is very very difficult to make money as a barrister.

Lockstep

yeehaw wrote: »

English law is different again. The subjects required are options within the LLB, so choose wisely. Administrative law is one of the stranger ones you need. There is no real equivalent of the FE-1s in the UK. Instead you do the Legal Practise Course (LPC), which is a year long course with lectures, exams etc. You then have to secure an apprenticeship.

If you qualify in the UK you can do an exam, offered by the Law Scoiety at Blackhall, to practise here- as a solicitor.

Awesome stuff, thanks.

yeehaw wrote: »

I have not discussed practising as a barrister because-
1. The King's Inn's exams, while not easy, are much easier than Fe-1s.
2. More importantly, it is very very difficult to make money as a barrister.

Might've been better to include that in your opening post so. Barristers are still law practitioners (in the post which you were criticising, I was referring to law in general terms, although I should have used clearer language.

Solicitors are also finding it very tricky to make money these days.

yeehaw

Lockstep wrote: »

Awesome stuff, thanks.

Might've been better to include that in your opening post so. Barristers are still law practitioners (in the post which you were criticising, I was referring to law in general terms, although I should have used clearer language.

Solicitors are also finding it very tricky to make money these days.

Yeah yeah whatever.

Say hello to my little friend

iwishihadaname wrote: »

ok you seem to be falling into the usual trap where "oh that course has alot of points to get into so it must be good".

As others have already said, points play no part in how good a course is. The points for a course depends how popular the course is. If a course is 385 in 2010, it means the last person to be offered a place on the course in that year got 385 points in their leaving cert.

Many thanks for all replies. I do indeed have a much better understanding of the course and indeed entry to the legal profession.

Iwishihadaname , Surely the demand for a course among students is some indication of its merit or otherwise. For example if the points for a course go down every year for many years I would have thought the demand going down indicates that prospective students see some problem with the course.

yeehaw

Say hello to my little friend wrote: »

Many thanks for all replies. I do indeed have a much better understanding of the course and indeed entry to the legal profession.

Iwishihadaname , Surely the demand for a course among students is some indication of its merit or otherwise. For example if the points for a course go down every year for many years I would have thought the demand going down indicates that prospective students see some problem with the course.

The country is overstocked with solicitors and barristers.

Lockstep

yeehaw wrote: »

Yeah yeah whatever.

Seriously now, what was the point at posting that? Unless you're one of those people who thinks that having the last word means you 'win' an internet argument or some such thing. If that's the case I can refrain from responding to you if it makes you feel better


My point was that I find it extremely hard to believe that someone criticizing another for posting 'nonsense' would deliberately omit to mention a profession as important as barristers. Far more likely you forgot to and can't admit to making a mistake. Address this if you wish, or post something else dismissive/vague.

yeehaw

Lockstep wrote: »

Seriously now, what was the point at posting that? Unless you're one of those people who thinks that having the last word means you 'win' an internet argument or some such thing. If that's the case I can refrain from responding to you if it makes you feel better


My point was that I find it extremely hard to believe that someone criticizing another for posting 'nonsense' would deliberately omit to mention a profession as important as barristers. Far more likely you forgot to and can't admit to making a mistake. Address this if you wish, or post something else dismissive/vague.

iwishihadaname

Say hello to my little friend wrote: »

Iwishihadaname , Surely the demand for a course among students is some indication of its merit or otherwise. For example if the points for a course go down every year for many years I would have thought the demand going down indicates that prospective students see some problem with the course.

What do prospective students really know about a course? They haven't done it. I can tell ya one thing it's going to be alot different from what the prospectus reads.

Anyway I've already told ya I think the course is ****e.

cat_xx

iwishihadaname wrote: »

What do prospective students really know about a course? They haven't done it. I can tell ya one thing it's going to be alot different from what the prospectus reads.

Anyway I've already told ya I think the course is ****e.

Are you doing the course?

iwishihadaname

cat_xx wrote: »

Are you doing the course?

Yeah I'm in final year.

Say hello to my little friend

Folks, Thanks for replies esp those doing course.
I am unsure as to what course to do and Corp Law attracts me as I can concentate more on Commerce or Law in final year depending on which I prefer then. Also If I tried it and liked the law end of things I could do the 1 yr LLB and have 2 degrees after 4 years.

Iwishihadaname, you are exactly right that prospective students such as myself know very little about any 3rd level course which is why I am so grateful for all your feedback.

Mikey23

Say hello to my little friend wrote: »

Surely the demand for a course among students is some indication of its merit or otherwise. For example if the points for a course go down every year for many years I would have thought the demand going down indicates that prospective students see some problem with the course.

Points are linked with demand all right, as programme directors don't want under-subscribed courses and points will drop over the rounds of offers until demand is adequate.

However this is misleading in the case of the B.Corp degree, as the number of students admitted into the B.Corp programme has risen considerably over the past few years (an increase requested by NUIG not the Law School). This increase in supply has more than met the demand, and given the impression that the course is unpopular, whereas in reality there are more students doing the programme than ever.

Hope that helps clarify the points question. As for the merits of the course, that's been discussed at length already. If the commerce subjects don't interest you and you'd perhaps like to bypass the LLB in future by covering all your core law subjects in your undergrad, then go for the B.Civil. If you've an interest in economics, accountancy, tax etc, then the B.Corp is ideal. If you're not sure about law at all, then maybe look at doing it via the Bachelor of Arts route. It's not a soft option by any means, and the LLB is still there if you want to stick with law afterwards.