I'm an alcoholic...

LegacyUser

...and an Athiest.
I've been to AA. They were no help. All they wanted to do was pray to a higher power that I do not believe exists.

Are there any alternatives out there?

Is there a support group for alcoholics who do not believe that a higher power can help them?

iguana

Alco seeking help wrote: »

Are there any alternatives out there?

Is there a support group for alcoholics who do not believe that a higher power can help them?

Lots and lots. This is a post I put together before, in addition you could try SMART Recovery, afaik they don't have any meeting in Ireland just now, but they do have online meetings run by counsellors.

Where are you based OP? If you are in Dublin or Belfast you could give lifering a try. They are a secular group of peer support meetings.

http://www.liferingireland.org/meeting-schedule

You can also go to your doctor and ask to be referred to the HSE community treatment centre for your region. Those are counselling based and you'd see a counsellor and attend group meetings. They do have residential places but the waiting lists can be very, very long for that.

If you specifically want to go into a residential rehab the Rutland Centre in Knocklyon has a 5 week inpatient course with a year of follow up counselling. It is NOT 12-step based. It's very expensive if you don't have medical insurance though. But they do have outpatient workshops and meetings too take a look on their website. http://www.rutlandcentre.ie/

If you want to do something right now, this instant, I strongly recommend the MyWayOut forums. http://www.mywayout.org/community/ It's a website where the different users share their experiences and help each other put together their own programme to sobriety. Some do use AA but most don't, some go to counselling and other just use the online group support. You'll get a lot of information on vitamins which are great for cutting cravings and replacing the nutrients your body has been starved of while you drank too much. You'll get information on just about every type of programme and treatment as I doubt there is a single type of treatment in the world that at least one of the posters hasn't tried. And there is a great forum about the most successful new medications in addiction treatment.

The AA doesn't work for everybody. In fact with a success rate of roughly 5%, it doesn't work for most people. However the majority of alcoholics/problem drinkers/how ever you feel like defining yourself, do get better so don't let yourself get too down. There are lots and lots of types of treatments, the thing to do is keep at it until you find the one that's a good fit for you. Good luck!

Walls

There is something about this, it works more like group therapy rather than AA. I'm going to post up details when I have them.


In the interim, how are you?

Nevyn

http://www.meetup.com/lifering-secular-recovery-non-12-step-based-recovery/

Lifering Secular Recovery for all addicts and alcoholics

Searching for an alternative to 12 step recovery programs? LifeRing is the first face to face alternative in Ireland. It offers a choice of recovery philosophies.

LifeRing Secular Recovery is an international organization of support groups for people who want to live free of alcohol or other addictive drugs. Sobriety means abstinence. LifeRing does not support moderation or harm reduction.

LifeRing's approach to recovery focuses on empowering the Sober Self within each of us, and we encourage each member to take a strong, active role in his or her own recovery. Our meetings provide a safe and supportive environment where members help each other discover the recovery solutions that best fit each individual's personality, culture, gender, race, sexual orientation, and lifestyle.

The "Secular" part of LifeRing means that our approach to recovery isn't faith-based in any way; we don't involve God, a Higher Power, or any similar concepts. LifeRing respects everyone's religious/spiritual beliefs or lack of beliefs, but understands that those are personal and private matters, not subjects for discussion in our meetings.

In LifeRing meetings, you'll find people like you, talking with each other about real-life issues and sharing solutions to those issues. While this kind of open "crosstalk" discussion is often prohibited in other recovery groups, LifeRing members find the interactive sharing and participation to be very healthy, helpful and healing. There are also a few things that you won't find in LifeRing meetings: You won't find judgment, guilt trips, or heavy-handed requirements and "suggestions" ... and you definitely won't find anyone trying to convince you that you are somehow "powerless" to help yourself.

Sound good so far? Why not drop in and check out a meeting!

Tuesdays at 6:30 pm Dublin Central Mission, 9 Lower Abbey Street in Wesley Room

Wednesday 2:30 pm Stanhope Street Treatment Centre, L. Grangegorman at Stanhope Street beginning 7 April, 2010

Thursday 7:10 pm St Patrick's Hospital room H

email address: lifering.dublin.irl@gmail.com
international web site www.lifering.org

Walls

Here is the website: [url]www.http://lifering.org/[/url]

seachto7

There was a guy on one of the Newstalk shows a few weeks back talking about this. I think it was on Moncrieffs show. You could email and see what day exactly to get the podcast...

estar

hi there not all AA meetings are the same. some are more relaxed. try a different number of groups before you write off the whole movement. i dont think there is pressure to believe in god in AA meetings in my own personal experience, just to believe that you are not able to control everything. the way they express this is to ask you to believe in a higher power you can use when your own hope and faith in yourself is gone. this can be anything. yes they pray at the begining of meetings. however becoming more spiritually aware and humble is part of the philosophy of the movement. and it works. i dont think they would kick you out of you said you were praying to something else, like the human spirit, the sun. anything. i do think you need to want to change and to believe you need help doing that.

I hate to see people writing off AA because of the higher power and prayer aspects as it can be so helpful and is proven to work for many people, and is practically FREE which i think is fantastic in this commercial world. sometimes people take things so literally. it really is far looser than that.

the twelve steps really work if you are ready to take them.

as with any movement run by people, i am sure it has all the usual human flaws and isnt perfect however.

anyway good luck with your journey and i wish you the best.

iguana

estar wrote: »

is proven to work for many people,

It's really not. The AA has a less than 5% success rate, more people get better all by themselves than do with AA. The OP did try AA, he did not find it helpful. He would be far better served trying the myriad of other treatments that exist, most which have much greater success rates, than going to group after group of the same philosophy.

If you found the AA helpful that is utterly fantastic. But you are in the minority and repeatedly trying something that isn't working for you, at a time when you are likely to be quite vulnerable is not a very good idea. Especially when you have many other positive options.

markesmith

Hi OP, you might want to have a read of Alllen Carr's book on controlling alcohol, it's gotten rave reviews everywhere:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Allen-Carrs-Easy-Control-Alcohol/dp/0572028504

You might think that a book won't solve the issue, but it's been very effective for thousands of people. Good luck with it.

LegacyUser

iguana wrote: »

It's really not. The AA has a less than 5% success rate, more people get better all by themselves than do with AA. The OP did try AA, he did not find it helpful. He would be far better served trying the myriad of other treatments that exist, most which have much greater success rates, than going to group after group of the same philosophy.

If you found the AA helpful that is utterly fantastic. But you are in the minority and repeatedly trying something that isn't working for you, at a time when you are likely to be quite vulnerable is not a very good idea. Especially when you have many other positive options.

quick question .. where did you get your 5% figure? .. AA has an open door policy any is anonymous.. attendance at meetings vary from week to week and no record is kept of members recovery..as far as i am aware people attend various meetings weekly(finding one that suits in process) by the way i am not in AA but respect the ethos of the organisation and the help people get from knowing they are not alone and their feelings of sometimes near insanity can be eased..try a few meetings and talk to people after meetings everyone has the same problem and wants to help.

cube90

iguana wrote: »

It's really not. The AA has a less than 5% success rate, more people get better all by themselves than do with AA. The OP did try AA, he did not find it helpful. He would be far better served trying the myriad of other treatments that exist, most which have much greater success rates, than going to group after group of the same philosophy.

If you found the AA helpful that is utterly fantastic. But you are in the minority and repeatedly trying something that isn't working for you, at a time when you are likely to be quite vulnerable is not a very good idea. Especially when you have many other positive options.

quick question .. where did you get your 5% figure? .. AA has an open door policy any is anonymous.. attendance at meetings vary from week to week and no record is kept of members recovery..as far as i am aware people attend various meetings weekly(finding one that suits in process) by the way i am not in AA but respect the ethos of the organisation and the help people get from knowing they are not alone and their feelings of sometimes near insanity can be eased..try a few meetings and talk to people after meetings everyone has the same problem and wants to help.

iguana

cube90 wrote: »

quick question .. where did you get your 5% figure? .. AA has an open door policy any is anonymous.. attendance at meetings vary from week to week and no record is kept of members recovery..as far as i am aware people attend various meetings weekly(finding one that suits in process) by the way i am not in AA but respect the ethos of the organisation and the help people get from knowing they are not alone and their feelings of sometimes near insanity can be eased..try a few meetings and talk to people after meetings everyone has the same problem and wants to help.

It's the AA's own figure from one of their trennial studies. They do actual carry out a record of their memberships. Independent studies often show AA to be one of the least effective tools in helping addicts. For the people who do get help from it, that's great for them and anyone who is getting help from it should stick it out as much as they want. But when people don't find it helpful the worst thing they can do is to keep on trying something that isn't gelling with them.

tenchi-fan

iguana wrote: »

Independent studies often show AA to be one of the least effective tools in helping addicts.

I have a good theory for this.

Many unemployed people hang around with each other and never find work.
Many homeless people hang around with each other and never find homes.
It's the blind leading the blind.

I'm not suggesting they go drinking together, but they get stuck in a cycle of offering each other support each time they lapse so that an expectation of lapsing exists. It reminds me of an ineffective diet group that congratulate each other when they lose a pound, and console each other when they gain two.

They constantly remind each other that they are alcoholics, rather than saying to each other "I am no longer an alcoholic."

Without being blunt, they should join clubs and activities which don't revolve around alcohol or alcoholism.

Mammanabammana

iguana wrote: »

It's really not. The AA has a less than 5% success rate, more people get better all by themselves than do with AA.

There are thousands upon thousands of people worldwide that have found sobriety through AA. Using a minimal figure like the mentioned 5% trivialises this. Millions of people have sought help through AA since it was founded; a great deal more have NOT found that help than HAVE found that help, but the simple fact of the matter is that NO addiction treatment has any more than a minimal success rate, simply because of the nature of addiction. And the harsh fact of the matter is that trying to recover from addiction "all by yourself" is going to be far less successful than ANY treatment.

iguana wrote: »

...repeatedly trying something that isn't working for you, at a time when you are likely to be quite vulnerable is not a very good idea. Especially when you have many other positive options.

While this is true, it's also not a very good idea to try one treatment and then run out the door when it doesn't offer an immediate solution. There is no immediate solution, no quick fix. The OP may well be one of the above 5% that finds help through AA but he/she will only find that out in the course of time. AA itself in it's big book has a chapter devoted to the specific issues faced by atheists. If the OP finds people trying to convert him/her to their way of thinking re the religious aspect, it's simply a matter of avoiding those people or finding other meetings that suit. AA is a human organisation and, as such, therefore has flaws built into it. It's down to the individual to do the best they can and find the genuine people (of which there are many) in AA that will help them through any difficult times - and there will be many - that recovering from addiction will bring.

For what it's worth, I'm not an AA advocate. I'm a recovering alcoholic who found sobriety through other means. It may well be that one of the other positive options to which you refer will be what the OP needs. But likewise, they too will require an investment of time rather than rejecting them at the first sign of difficulties with their approach/ethos.

All treatment programmes will have their advocates, their detractors and their zealots. In light of this, I would simply suggest that while the OP continues to try to find the programme that will bring the sobriety he/she wants so badly, don't immediately rule out AA (or any other treatment programme for that matter) without giving it a proper try.

Best of luck OP. You face a difficult path but the rewards are unbelievable. I hope you stick with it.

iguana

Mammanabammana wrote: »

There are thousands upon thousands of people worldwide that have found sobriety through AA. Using a minimal figure like the mentioned 5% trivialises this. Millions of people have sought help through AA since it was founded; a great deal more have NOT found that help than HAVE found that help, but the simple fact of the matter is that NO addiction treatment has any more than a minimal success rate, simply because of the nature of addiction. And the harsh fact of the matter is that trying to recover from addiction "all by yourself" is going to be far less successful than ANY treatment.

Actually according to an enormous and long ranging study conducted by the Harvard Medical School, most addicts get better in time. The rate of spontaneous remission from addiction is very, very high. The most important factor is having a good support network in your personal life, ie, spouse, family and friends and finding a path that suits you personally.

I don't want to get into a debate on the effectiveness of treatments. This is not the place for that. But the simple fact is that medical studies show that most addicts get better, it isn't easy but it's far from impossible. Telling someone who is struggling otherwise is very, very damaging. Telling someone who has said a particular treatment doesn't suit him that he should keep trying it is likely to cause more problems than solutions. Especially when that particular treatment suits very few people and there are a huge amount of alternatives. Many with pretty good success rates. Hell, preliminary studies of high dose baclofen treatment have an 88% success rate in a few short months of treatment as alcohol abuse mostly damages the GABA(b) receptors of the brain and baclofen, a GABA(b) agonist, simulates repair. All study participants who could manage the side effects (the aforementioned 88%) overcame their physical addiction in 3-6 months.

Mammanabammana

iguana wrote: »

Actually according to an enormous and long ranging study conducted by the Harvard Medical School, most addicts get better in time. The rate of spontaneous remission from addiction is very, very high. The most important factor is having a good support network in your personal life, ie, spouse, family and friends.

Exactly the point I was making - in time; in other words giving the required time to a programme of treatment rather than allowing oneself to be discouraged initially. It's those initial stages which are the most difficult. Which is where the support network provided by AA or other support groups is crucial. Many of those suffering from addiction, by the time they seek help, can no longer turn to spouse, family and friends for support as their behaviour during addiction has often alienated those people; winning back that trust is the first major hurdle of the recovering addict, in many cases - and particularly where an addict has made previous efforts at recovery only to relapse - the trust is not automatically granted.

The point I was making was that while there are many support groups out there, I would hope that the OP wouldn't allow themselves to be put off any specific one, especially one that does have a level of success to its name, until they find a way forward that works for them. In these early stages of recovery, any support group that helps the OP in the short term to not pick up a drink while looking for a long term approach, really shouldn't be discounted.

iguana wrote: »

I don't want to get into a debate on the effectiveness of treatments. This is not the place for that.

Nor do I, although I may PM you later in relation to some of your points; but I'm mindful of the PI charter, which is why I'm trying to keep my comments here helpful to the OP. But, I need to clarify something;

iguana wrote: »

Telling someone who has said a particular treatment doesn't suit him that he should keep trying it is likely to cause more problems than solutions. Especially when that particular treatment suits very few people and there are a huge amount of alternatives.

I agree with this. I didn't say that the OP should keep trying a treatment that doesn't suit - I even specified that I am NOT an AA advocate. I simply want to encourage the OP to give AA a proper go before deciding it's not for him/her. I would be making the exact same point about any other treatment. Nobody can tell at this early what treatment is going to be successful for them and which is not without investing time and speaking to the people for whom it HAS been effective (in this case, other atheists who have achieved sobriety through AA). Telling someone to avoid a particular treatment is just as potentially problematic as advocating a particular treatment.