paleontologist uses paleontology to advocate bigfoot

steddyeddy

A well respected paleontologist called jeffrey meldrum uses the science of ichnotaxonomy (The sudy of fossilized tracks) to classify alleged sasquatch tracks. The paper he published was peer reviewed by five people instead of the usual three.

http://www.cryptomundo.com/wp-content/uploads/meldrum2007_ichnotaxonomy_of_giant_hominoid_tracks_in_north_america.pdf

The paper posted above has classified sasquatch as an extanct animal, do you think this is an abuse of paleontology?

Galvasean

I couldn't get your link to open but found an alternate article on it:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=bigfoot-anatomy

First and formost Jeffrey Meldrum is not specifically a palaeontologist. However, he is a fully qualified anthropologist. The two virtues intermingle a lot so i'm just being pedantic...

To be honest, I don't think Meldrum is participating in 'bad science'. I do however feel as if his time and enthusiasm could be put to better use. That said, I don't think anyone has ever put so much effort into the research of Bigfoot so some use may (perhaps inadvertently) come of it.

PS: steddyeddy, I think you've put the wrong link in your sig

Saurophaganax

I read Jeff Meldrum's book entitled "Sasquatch: Legend Meets Science" (available on Amazon) in which he analyses the evidence for Bigfoot. It's an interesting read and one I'd recommend to anyone fascinated by the topic.

Adam Khor

That an “extinct” giant ape
is accepted by science on the basis of such scant fossil evidence, one
might ask why serious consideration has been slow in coming to the
hundreds of documented footprints (not to mention sightings, vocalizations,
hair, scat, etc.

Well, fossilized remains such as jaws and teeth beat "sightings, vocalizations, hair and scat", especially when none of the latter, to my knowledge, has been confirmed as coming from actual non human primates. If they had found actual bones or carcasses of Bigfoot type animals, then it would have a lot more credibility...

Seems to me that he's assuming too much. We don´t have any fossils of Gigantopithecus' limbs or feet, so we have no idea what its footprints would look like. I agree with Galvasean; this guy should dedicate his time and enthusiasm to, I don´t know, find additional Gigantopithecus remains?

Capt'n Midnight

I'll have to re-read that again regarding flexibility of the foot.

Regarding detection of large primates, during the Vietnam war the US dropped a lot of infra red sensors in the jungle and then launch airstrikes when the detectors were triggered. The patrols remarked on how silent the jungle was, nothing left to make noises.

Wibbs

While I could get behind the idea of an undiscovered large primate, even a hominid in somewhere like the vast wilderness of Eurasia, the Americas is less likely. Why? Because as far as we know the only large primate that made it there was us and modern us at that(though there have been a couple of interesting anomalous sites that may suggest earlier humans).

Adam Khor

Wibbs wrote: »

While I could get behind the idea of an undiscovered large primate, even a hominid in somewhere like the vast wilderness of Eurasia, the Americas is less likely. Why? Because as far as we know the only large primate that made it there was us and modern us at that(though there have been a couple of interesting anomalous sites that may suggest earlier humans).

Yet other animals as typically Asian as the tiger and the dhole did make it to North America...

That being said, didn´t Gigantopithecus depend on bamboo forests almost as much as pandas? If so I don´t think it would be very migratory animal so to speak...

steddyeddy

The giganto bamboo hypothesis has been put forward in the past but more recent evidence indicates that tooth wear patterns on giganto's teeth are similar to chimpanzee tooth wear patterns.

Saying that I advise people to read the book sasquatch legend meets science by Dr.Meldrum. His science is sound so I have no reason to disagree with his findings. Saying that, some of the best primatologists in the world have described the creature as likely to exist. So theres only so much convincing will do to advance science without a holotype of the creature.

The day a truck hits one of these things on the highway is the day this question will be answered. Or as Grover Krantz used to say "when we shoot one of these things then the parties over"!

Capt'n Midnight

steddyeddy wrote: »

The day a truck hits one of these things on the highway is the day this question will be answered. Or as Grover Krantz used to say "when we shoot one of these things then the parties over"!

all it needs is a single hair follicle / any sample from which DNA could be sequenced from

Galvasean

steddyeddy wrote: »

The day a truck hits one of these things on the highway is the day this question will be answered.

Ladies and gentlemen, we got him!
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/aug/28/nation/la-na-nn-bigfoot-sasquatch-hoax-20120828

steddyeddy

Galvasean wrote: »

Ladies and gentlemen, we got him!
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/aug/28/nation/la-na-nn-bigfoot-sasquatch-hoax-20120828

And he looks like a talking christmas tree :-P

steddyeddy

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

all it needs is a single hair follicle / any sample from which DNA could be sequenced from

Hey Cap, sorry I meant to reply to this. There is actually a project underway to do just that. Brian Sykes, prof of genetics at Oxford university is heading the project in conjunction with other researchers from Oxford university. Some of you might remember Brian from his work on Otzi the iceman. Anyway the link here might explian it better.

THE GIST

• Scientists have requested that cryptozoologists send them material supposedly from cryptic species.
• They plan to conduct genetic analysis of the material.
• The call is a challenge to those who claim that science simply rejects such claims.

enlarge
An artist's interpretation of Bigfoot. Click to enlarge this image.
Karl Tate, LiveScience Infographic Artist



A new university-backed project aims to investigate cryptic species such as the yeti whose existence is unproven, through genetic testing.
Researchers from Oxford University and the Lausanne Museum of Zoology are asking anyone with a collection of cryptozoological material to submit descriptions of it. The researchers will then ask for hair and other samples for genetic identification.
"I'm challenging and inviting the cryptozoologists to come up with the evidence instead of complaining that science is rejecting what they have to say," said geneticist Bryan Sykes of the University of Oxford.
PHOTOS: Rate the Bigfoot Evidence in These Images
While Sykes doesn't expect to find solid evidence of a yeti or Bigfoot monster, he says he is keeping an open mind and hopes to identify perhaps 20 of the suspect samples. Along the way, he'd be happy if he found some unknown species. (Rumor or Reality: The Creatures of Cryptozoology)

"It would be wonderful if one or more turned out to be species we don't know about, maybe primates, maybe even collateral hominids," Sykes told LiveScience. Such hominids would include Neanderthals or Denosivans, a mysterious hominin species that lived in Siberia 40,000 years ago.
"That would be the optimal outcome," Sykes said.
The project is called the Oxford-Lausanne Collateral Hominid Project. It is being led by Sykes and Michel Sartori of the zoology museum.
NEWS: New Bigfoot Sightings: Proof Still Lacking
Origin of a Legend
The story of a big hairy monster of the Himalayas stomped into popular culture in 1951, when British mountaineer Eric Shipton returned from a Mount Everest expedition with photographs of giant footprints in the snow.
The cryptic creature goes by many names in many places: yeti or migoi in the Himalayas, Bigfoot or sasquatch in the United States and Canada, respectively; almasty in the Caucasus Mountains; orag pendek in Sumatra. (Infographic: Tracking Belief in Bigfoot)
And while reports of such creatures have abounded around the world since then, there is no real proof they exist; the reports inevitably turn out to be of a civet, bear or other known beast.
Yeti hairs
Sykes doesn't want to start receiving loads of skin, hair and other samples haphazardly, so he is asking people to send detailed descriptions of their "yeti" samples.
Once he and his colleagues have looked over the details — including physical descriptions of the sample (even photographs), its origin and ideas about the likely species it belongs to — they will send a sampling kit for those that are deemed suitable for study.
"As an academic I have certain reservations about entering this field, but I think using genetic analysis is entirely objective; it can't be falsified," Sykes said. "So I don't have to put myself into the position of either believing or disbelieving these creatures."
One theory about the yeti is that it belongs to small relic populations of other hominids, such as Neanderthals or Denisovans. While Sykes said this idea is unlikely to be proven true, "if you don't look, you won't find it."
The collection phase of the project will run through September, with genetic testing following that through November. After that, Sykes said, they will write up the results for publication in a peer-reviewed scientific journal; this would be the first such publication of cryptozoology results, he said.
"Several things I've done in my career have seemed impossible and stupid when contemplated, but have impressive results," Sykes said. When he set out to find DNA from ancient human remains, for instance, he thought, "It's never going to work." It did, and he published the first report of DNA from ancient human bones in the journal Nature in 1989.

Galvasean

"The call is a challenge to those who claim that science simply rejects such claims."

I find that a lot of cryptozoologists (among many other disciplines) like to play the "mainstream science doesn't wanna know!" card all too often (usually as smokescreen to hide their own shortcomings). Orthodox scientists seem to be always reaching out for evidence of such things to assess properly, but it is rarely forthcoming. I mean, honestly, who wouldn't want to be the geneticist that proved once and for all that Bigfoot was real? You'd be made for life (no more begging for research grants) and be a shoe in for a Nobel prize!

Capt'n Midnight

Galvasean wrote: »

You'd be made for life (no more begging for research grants) and be a shoe in for a Nobel prize!

Hmmm....

and all I need is some novel DNA that's not too different from that orangoutang that was sequenced

brb

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/life-science/custom-oligos.html

Capt'n Midnight

If they ever find the Abominable Snowman I'm going to hire him to be my chauffeur.

Just so I can sit in the back and say, "Are we there Yeti?" :pac:

Capt'n Midnight

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/05/bigfoot_blimp_search/

Jeffrey Meldrum, an anatomy and anthropology professor at Idaho State University, is looking to raise $300,000 to build a remote-controlled airship armed with a thermal imaging camera that will be used to float above the forests and find the hairy beast, which Meldrum believes exists.

Galvasean

Horrific waste of money TBH

Oh Hell Oui!

Jesus If I had the money I'd fund extensive research into this area just to put the issue to bed once and for all; and let the many good scientists that have devoted their lives to this topic to move onto something else.

Adam Khor

Problem is you could spend millions trying to put the issue to bed and it would never end unless you found a bigfoot.

Which seems extremely unlikely.

I think that money would be better used in saving the very endangered and very real orangutans, gorillas and chimpanzees out there.

Oh Hell Oui!

Adam Khor wrote: »

Problem is you could spend millions trying to put the issue to bed and it would never end unless you found a bigfoot.

Which seems extremely unlikely.

I think that money would be better used in saving the very endangered and very real orangutans, gorillas and chimpanzees out there.[/QUOTE

Of course I think the money would be better spent that way, but it would be nice to have one serious study that incorporates these fringe scientists. With their backing any results would carry some weight in those sectors and we/they can move on to other areas, I think these side issues like bigfoot etc detract from the very real plight of the above primates.

Rubecula

I think I will go on a bigfoot hunting expedition. Fot bait I will use the Tooth Fairy and three Christmas Elves, anchored to a sack of chicken's lips.

Oh Hell Oui!

Rubecula wrote: »

I think I will go on a bigfoot hunting expedition. Fot bait I will use the Tooth Fairy and three Christmas Elves, anchored to a sack of chicken's lips.

Don't forget these guys or you're doomed to failure I'm afraid!:D