Heard a whisper Sierra won sky contract

deaglan169

Heard a whisper today and apparently its gospal that sierra has won the sky ireland contract north and south, finlays are out of the picture come april:eek:

watty

Wasn't Sierra doing it before?

stanley1

yep, saw an installer in D12 yesterday, sierra van outside.

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

deaglan169

sierra always had the contract for dublin and i believe south east region, but finlays had northern ireland and all other counties mayo, galway donegal etc... sierra has now won the nationwide contract 32 counties

livEwirE

Glad to hear Finlay didn't win it, I had them during my first install and they were a bunch of muppets:eek:

paulm17781

livEwirE wrote: »

Glad to hear Finlay didn't win it, I had them during my first install and they were a bunch of muppets:eek:

I had them from the only install I've ever had and I was quite impressed with the guy they sent.

The Donegal Man

livEwirE wrote: »

Glad to hear Finlay didn't win it, I had them during my first install and they were a bunch of muppets:eek:

I dont know who it was (either Sierra or Finlays) but when I got a HD box installed in 2008 about 3 or 4 of them called to the house. They were all in casual wear like they were dressed for a night out It was rather intimidating tbh four people landing at your house like that.

deaglan169

like every company your going to get the good and bad installers, that sounds dodgy 4 lads turning up it may have been sub-contracted out to a local company finlays vans have full sky livery on them or else they have the company name on the side of van

biffontour

It's gospel alrite lad, Sierra wouldnt have the man power as of yet so i would imagine that they are goin to be looking for a hell of a lot of lads

ISAA

biffontour wrote: »

It's gospel alrite lad, Sierra wouldnt have the man power as of yet so i would imagine that they are goin to be looking for a hell of a lot of lads

Another shower of muppets, they should stick to digging holes.

It all come down to price, and the hell with QC, H&S, and proper standards

dcr22B

ISAA wrote: »

Another shower of muppets, they should stick to digging holes

Have to disagree with you there. I had two Polish lads out fitting a new dish and installing Sky+ HD and multiroom in my house recently and their efficiency, manners and helpfulness was much appreciated from this customer.

You shouldn't tar all installers with the same brush.

Bogger77

ISAA wrote: »

Another shower of muppets, they should stick to digging holes.

It all come down to price, and the hell with QC, H&S, and proper standards

slightly off topic, but speaking of QC and proper standards, when will you be running a spell-check and grammar check on the ISAA website? It's a bit rich to slagging of others as unprofessional, with grammar and or spelling mistakes on 3 out of the 4 pages I looked at.
Also, your signature, the images you're trying to display are on your desktop, you should upload these to your website, and point the links on your signature to the website copies of the images.

St Senan

I do agree You shouldn't tar all installers with the same brush. But when it comes to Big contract companies like Sierra they Underpay and Undertrain the guys who they have out installing for them. The guys Sierra use in Counties other than Dublin are usually Sub-Sub contractors.It has been highlited before about the quality on the installs that Sierra Installers carry out.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/search.php?searchid=17305154&pp=25&page=2
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054864782&highlight=sierra+communications
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056162265&highlight=sierra
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055250583&highlight=sierra+communications
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=75188&highlight=sierra+communications
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054856372&highlight=sierra+communications
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054863648&highlight=sierra+communications

stanley1

Had sierra install sky a few years ago, they drilled the hole too small coming into living room and tore the insulation completely off the 2 cables, I pointed it out to them and they wanted to put barrel type connectors on cables. I eventually got them to completely replace cables or else I was going to cancel sky, the moral of the story is to make sure you are on site when they arrive and have the cable route planned and if possible drill all your own access holes.

deaglan169

biffontour wrote: »

It's gospel alrite lad, Sierra wouldnt have the man power as of yet so i would imagine that they are goin to be looking for a hell of a lot of lads

most of the finlays installers become sierra employees come april so probably wont be recruiting a whole lot

deaglan169

scaller wrote: »

I do agree You shouldn't tar all installers with the same brush. But when it comes to Big contract companies like Sierra they Underpay and Undertrain the guys who they have out installing for them. The guys Sierra use in Counties other than Dublin are usually Sub-Sub contractors.It has been highlited before about the quality on the installs that Sierra Installers carry out.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/search.php?searchid=17305154&pp=25&page=2
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054864782&highlight=sierra+communications
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056162265&highlight=sierra
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055250583&highlight=sierra+communications
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=75188&highlight=sierra+communications
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054856372&highlight=sierra+communications
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054863648&highlight=sierra+communications

sorry for double posting i notice most of them threads are from 2005, they must have improved alot since then for sky to take them on, i believe part of the reason they won was that both companies were analysed over a period and those with the best re-call rates to new installs service calls etc... were looked on favourably

ISAA

I know a good few Sierra contractors, and they all have told me at different times, they use the cheapest of cable, connectors, bolts, etc, and this is in the last 6 months.

Yes I know some work is excellent, but a lot is rubbish.

I've seen service calls :

No tape at connectors,
screw on F connectors,
cheap RG6 coax,
2 or 3 bolts holding on the sky dish on the wall,
lose cable across building,
shortage of tacks,
water running into customers walls, (No drip loop)

The truth hurts a lot of people, but the above is why we are trying to issue proper standards, for Installations, and H&S.

Cantona's Collars

I did some contract work for Sierra a few years ago (different department).They had a great time talking about h+s and doing work by the rules until it suited them then it all went out the window and it didn't matter what went on as long as the job was done and they weren't responsible.
I know some of the guys switched to the satellite division of Sierra and carried on the same practices.They talk the talk but that's it.
Although in saying that they do have a few decent guys-one put in Sky for a neighbour and did a good job of it-took him long enough as he used harnesses the lot and did the job properly.It's the majority that drag the good guys down.
A friend of mine had full time work following Sierra installers and fixing up their rubbish work.
Fair play to setting up some kind of body (ISAA) to regulate this work as accountability seems to be sorely lacking.

vdubber9411

First post for me, so Hi to you all. Had to register because I have'nt got a clue whats going on!!! I'm a subbie for Finlays, I was a direct employee but for personal reasons I left my role a while ago. Sierra have deffinately won the contract for the whole of Ireland, how I don't know. Finlays are'nt that bad of a bunch. H&S, QC, RFT is taken seriously from a checking point, but they pile on the work which I feel has a negative effect on H&S, QC and RFT as engineers especially in the West are expected to do 130+ miles a day and complete excess work loads (this obviously has a negative impact on H&S and Quality) engineers can't be responsible for this, profit takes over with big companies.

Now I've heard that whilst Finlays have been doing everything by the book and been totally open to Sky (as they thought they were guaranteed the contract) Sierra have been faking a bit. One thing I've heard is that they have been closing down jobs even though they have'nt been completed and then completeing at a later stage! Naughty!!!

Sierra's last input on there website was 23/12/10, maybe they have to much on. Maybe Finlays should have been given the Sky contract. Majority are direct employees, own vans, and I think they look after the engineers, could just tweek the mileage and amount of work expectation and it would be a cracking company! Profit just needs to be at the bottom of the list, profit will come anyway.

WHATS GOING ON, NO ONE KNOWS OR IS TELLING AT FINLAYS! THE CONTRACT IS TAKEN OVER IN 4 WEEKS. Apparantly Sierra have been refused credit for vans in ROI as they're in debt, but this is all hearsay. DOES ANYONE KNOW?

Sierra have made no effort to take on extra staff, do they not need any? Maybe they don't want the contract really, can't see this handover taking place in 4 weeks thats for sure.

Sorry for boring you, give me some feedback!

vdubber9411

deaglan169 wrote: »

most of the finlays installers become sierra employees come april so probably wont be recruiting a whole lot

Where did you hear Sierra are taking on Finlays staff? Not what Finlays have been told! Or not what they're telling staff.

Lucy1982

Hi everyone .As far as i know Finlays guys will have an option to work for Sierra after 18.04.that is the rumour at sierra anyway.

vdubber9411

Might be a good idea for Sierras to start some verbals with Finlays staff with only a month to go! Does the same apply for sub IRS working for Finlays? I've emailed Sierras showing my interest and got nothing back!

Skyman81

Apparently Sierra have started talking to certain engineers (one from each team) and certain subbies in Finlays. They don't want to take on directly employed engineers and can't afford the overheads. As far as finlays staff are concerned they are being employed by Sierra as of 4 weeks but they are leaving it very late to switch over systems and set staff up on payroll etc.

vdubber9411

Love to know which engineers on each team they're talking too at Finlays, or is it just Finlays ROI staff that are being left out of the loop. Finlays had a meeting the other day, no Sierra Representative turned up apparantly! Finlays just had a letter from Sierra (a letter?) No communication is taking place, and as both Sierra and Finlays have COMMUNICATION in their title its a pretty poor doo. This handover in 4 weeks has no chance! As the previous thread stated Payroll, contracts etc have to be sorted, not a hope.

I would suggest Sky re-think and use Finlays rather than Sierra! Finlays would have made a much better go of it and had a decent infrastructure in place already.

Come on Sierra COMMUNICATIONS, get COMMUNICATING with Finlay COMMUNICATIONS, its unlikely you'll succeed without them!

Skyman81

Was engineers from the north I believe, probably easier for Sierra to subcontract out work in the south!

vdubber9411

ROI has always been the poor relation!
Sub-Contract out ROI - It'll do for me! 100+ ROI Finlays engineers need telling quick though, or will they just be expected to join the dole queue? Not on is it! :eek:

Skyman81

Hopefully not but easier for sierra to expand their existing subbie network to cover the south, more difficult in the north as they have no engineers working there! Can't believe Sierra aren't talking to Finlay's, sounds like they've had a falling out.

vdubber9411

I was led to believe the contract was given on the pretence that Sky wanted a sole business partner in Ireland and that partner had to have a massive direct emplyee ratio! That won't be the case if Sierra do what you're saying! Maybe Finlays should go back to Sky and fight it out, they would be better suited as I guess 90% of their engineers are directly employed!
Or maybe it all came down to money! We'll see in a few weeks, it'll all go belly up!:cool:

bigpaddy2004

This is indeed very sad if Sierra have won the full 32 county contract.
The big difference between the 2 is that if you are with Sierra you, and I quote from the manager keith (forgot what his surname was), "you are only a number here".
But indeed with Finlays you are an employee and treated like a human being.
Sierra are indeed so full of bull****. They only do H & S when the inspectors are around. With Sierra it is indeed Profit before Poeple, something like medieval times!

vdubber9411

Profit is always high on the list with any company, but certain things must come first, shall I name them - H&S, EMPLOYEES, CUSTOMERS! We'll see what happens! I have no doubt it won't stop here, Sierra have won at this stage, but something may well still be done, smells fishy!!!! Get Communicating, rumours are going mad!

St Senan

bigpaddy2004 wrote: »

This is indeed very sad if Sierra have won the full 32 county contract.
The big difference between the 2 is that if you are with Sierra you, and I quote from the manager keith (forgot what his surname was), "you are only a number here".
But indeed with Finlays you are an employee and treated like a human being.
Sierra are indeed so full of bull****. They only do H & S when the inspectors are around. With Sierra it is indeed Profit before Poeple, something like medieval times!

Paddy as I have said before when John Molloy was moved from the Sky Division in Sierra around 10 years things started to become harder for an Installer or Subbie installer. And please can some of the new posters stop referring to installers as Engineers there is no such thing.

vdubber9411

scaller wrote: »

Paddy as I have said before when John Molloy was moved from the Sky Division in Sierra around 10 years things started to become harder for an Installer or Subbie installer. And please can some of the new posters stop referring to installers as Engineers there is no such thing.

I know the definition of engineer does'nt fit really and Sky ENGINEERS are really Installers! Problem you have is that is the title given and that is why Sky Engineers ring SKY ENGINEER ENQUIRIES when they need to speak direct to Sky! They don't ring INSTALLER Enquiries! Maybe you could have a chat with Sky to see if they can change the Office title to fit more in line with the definition, might make you happier! :)Have fun:).

St Senan

vdubber9411 wrote: »

I know the definition of engineer does'nt fit really and Sky ENGINEERS are really Installers! Problem you have is that is the title given and that is why Sky Engineers ring SKY ENGINEER ENQUIRIES when they need to speak direct to Sky! They don't ring INSTALLER Enquiries! Maybe you could have a chat with Sky to see if they can change the Office title to fit more in line with the definition, might make you happier! :)Have fun:).

I know what you are saying when it comes to sky using the word Engineer it sounds good and professional to an unassuming customer that an Engineer is calling out to install there new Sky satellite system. When infact it is a sub contractor Installer. It has been highlighted before here on boards.ie the differance between installer of Satellite dishes and an Engineer. It dosent bother me as an Aerial rigger dish Installer as i got sense a few years back and dithched the Sky installs and ASA number. The money for an install then was ****e and it has got worse now. Its hard for an Idependant installer to make money from Sky with the way it is gone so cheap to get it installed and all the crash course Installers that big Install companies are using who are working for small money.

Sam the Aerialman

So what exactly is the story with Finlays? Been hearing various versions of events and then spoke with a current employee of Finlays who claims it's business as usual. Apparently the business was somehow involved with HEAT sold (to a group of local investors) and they lost the Sky contract to Sierra but how then are they still trading as a business? As far as i can see their vehicles are still out completing "Sky work" and their employees are non the wiser. Little confused...

vdubber9411

They're still a business!

They hand over on or around 18/04/11. Can't talk for NI Finlays lads but ROI have'nt got a clue whats going on!

They're being told Sierra will just take them on! As they're both COMMUNICATION Companies you'd expect them to communicate. (They're not)

Just because Finlays have lost the contract with Sky though does'nt mean they'll stop trading. They must have 300+ employees.

Finlays seems to have gone down hill since the Finlay Family sold it in 2009. Ah well

HEAT was voted high on companies to work for though, maybe Satellite Installations and ROI in particular is a different ball game!:eek:

skywex

Just following this thread and wanted to reply as the old union guy in me wants to add. As far as communication between company's go during an event like this then there are obligations and limitations involved. The TUPE issue would carry in this event, that means that sierra are obligated to offer employment to the finlay guys on the same terms and conditions but until they do they are still finlay employee's and so cannot be appraoched by sierra without finlay's being complicit in letting this happen. I can think of at least one very large reason finlays would want to make this process as difficult as possible for as long as possible.

With regards to standards then you need to compare apples with apples, rft, revisits and completions etc. As for cable choice It really doesn't matter domesticly what cable is used, you could use gold cable but as we all know, you install a barrel in a gutter or fit an f-con incorrectly then there will be issues.

I know sky well from my asa days and they are no mugs. I don't know the reasons for thier choice of one over the other but i could have a guess as to why this happened in the first place.

I also know a guy in my local who works for sierra and he's more than happy to be working for them. Always busy enough without having too much - who can say that these days!.

roscoepico

vdubber9411 wrote: »

They're still a business!

They hand over on or around 18/04/11. Can't talk for NI Finlays lads but ROI have'nt got a clue whats going on!

They're being told Sierra will just take them on! As they're both COMMUNICATION Companies you'd expect them to communicate. (They're not)

Just because Finlays have lost the contract with Sky though does'nt mean they'll stop trading. They must have 300+ employees.

Finlays seems to have gone down hill since the Finlay Family sold it in 2009. Ah well

HEAT was voted high on companies to work for though, maybe Satellite Installations and ROI in particular is a different ball game!:eek:

So whats the story, who has the Sky contract? Looking at getting into installing!

Looked at Finlays website today and they look like they are doing Freesat and other stuff now! Seems bizzare they have to advertise that, you would have thought with the amount of houses they'd been into they would have sold stacks of stuff, and would have a great customer base. They'll being doing door to door next. They do not seem to be recruiting!

Sierra has nothing on its website to say if it has or has not got the contract, and is only recruiting office based staff?

Does anyone know?

If anyone else has work give me a shout!

vdubber9411

Handover is now end of May in ROI, October in NI. Sierra have it! Good luck with the job search.

MrSneeg

with the 'digital of Europe' iniment, there should be jobs galore,
even for non qualified electricians, (as in another post)

nothings changing,

same aerial different box,

makes the chinese richer,

the old 'Dell' factory could of made all our 'saorview' boxes & TV's

please correct me if im mad***

vdubber9411

Stick with your local installer, avoid big companies and you'll get a quality guaranteed service. Bring it on.

biffontour

I also heard that Sierra are saying you need a 2008 van or newer to work with him, dunno how true this is? has anyone heard of this?

Cantona's Collars

biffontour wrote: »

I also heard that Sierra are saying you need a 2008 van or newer to work with him, dunno how true this is? has anyone heard of this?

Sierra have this policy of keeping company vehicles spotless-they want to portray a certain image.So I assume they don't want any battered vans with their name on them.
We had scenarios of guys working 16 hour days sometimes and still had to wash their vehicles when they got back to the yard.

biffontour

That's a bit harsh! I can understand having well presented and clean vans but can't imagine there is too many sub contractors that can afford to upgrade there van to a newer one

deaglan169

typical sod the quality of the install as long as the van is nice and clean:D

makavelithedon

Apologies in advance for hi-jacking this thread, i am unsure how to start a new one, and my question is pretty much in the same vein as this thread. Can anybody tell me roughly what rates do sierra pay sub contractors for doing sky digital work. ??Also is there a maximum age for the van(s) potentially being used?? Any other related information would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks in advance, Alex.

jssp

not enough is the simple answer,plus the start up costs are high(van,safety gear/folder,pda etc),there rates are the lowest of any company that install sky that i know of and u are treated like crap for the ''privilege'' of being routed jobs.i wouldnt recommend contracting to them.im sure others will agree with me on this

ineedjob.lol

the subbies dont get much from sky. i know but cant say but its good bit less than a grand a week. they have to pay for everything except the dishes and boxes with that. im talking the van. diesel. public liability insurance. van insurance. tax for van. vat tax for themselves. cable connectors.etc etc etc. so its nice to be tipped the odd time hint hint!! it takes about 5 grand to set up your van with everything and it has to be van less than 3 years old. last year sky had a net profit of in the region of 800and 900 million.

deaglan169

any update on the change over have the finlays lads become sierra employers, i heard they bought a load of ex sky vans from uk did they buy out finlays vans also???

billybobni

Just to bump this thread.

Rumour is now spreading of Sky coming across to Northern Ireland/Republic and taking back the contract themselves, thus Sierra will go without. With the loss of this AVC group loosing their Sky contract, anyone in the know that can spread some light?

St Senan

I have heard sky are moving in to the republic alright and that a big ASA has lost its contract which will do away with all the small subbie sales people and installers.