Who to Vote for in Laois????

Shazanne

Hi,
I will be voting for the first time in Laois/Offaly in the forthcoming Election. I know little or nothing about the candidates and what they have achieved, particularly for Portlaoise.
I am not looking for party political broadcast, just some information on who's who and what's what??

adser53

Good thread Shazanne, I'd like to know this myself.

Personally, I've had a good few dealings with the Sinn Féin lads (Brian Stanley & Alan Hand) over the last 2 years about the estate and I can't speak highly enough of them. When the prospect of an election was but a mere dream, these lads were out giving us a load of help with the estate (and they approached us OFFERING to help:eek:)

This inlcuded knocking on doors with the different groups as we/they tried to set up committees for their roads, helping out on the clean-up days (unlike a lot of residents :rolleyes:), taking the rubbish away after the clean ups, providing signage for dog fouling, speed limits etc, attending the meetings organised by the different groups, chasing up the lake issue with the town engineer, street lights.....the list goes on. I know it's only a single estate but these lads put in more effort than any other politician I've ever had the (mis)fortune of meeting and genuinely care about the area.

But those other showers of eejits (Fianna Fáil and the Greens I'm looking at you!) never came near the gates of Esker Hills (in fact, they can keep walking by them IMO)but with an election on the horizon, you can bet they'll be buzzing around like flies on shi*te waving flags of Jabba Cowen & telling us their plans to harness the power of organic beans to help us all :rolleyes:

2011abc

Well if you had have said 15 or 20 years ago that Id consider voting for SF I would have said you were mad but now they seem almost the obvious default choice.FF and Greens ?Ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!FG only too willing to persecute the public sector even more .Labour ?In bed with FG and maybe a bit too 'pro working class' at the expense of middle class.
I'll almost certainly be voting SF if theres a candidate in my constituency.

artful_codger

adser53 wrote: »

But those other showers of eejits (Fianna Fáil and the Greens I'm looking at you!) never came near the gates of Esker Hills

perhaps because, you know, they're more concerned with national strategic issues instead of cleaning up your green areas? What you're describing is 'parish pump politics' and it is a cancer upon our heads; it is what has led us to where we are - led by a bunch of people who stand for nothing except re-election. It's Jackey Healy Rae politics - you take care of my sh*tty little concerns and you can have my vote, doesn't matter what your economic, fiscal, or social ideologies are, as long as you get the potholes fixed for me boss.

IMO, people who vote like this don't deserve one in the first place.

2011abc

"ALL politics is local ..." (Tip O'Neill)

adser53

artful_codger wrote: »

perhaps because, you know, they're more concerned with national strategic issues instead of cleaning up your green areas? What you're describing is 'parish pump politics' and it is a cancer upon our heads; it is what has led us to where we are - led by a bunch of people who stand for nothing except re-election. It's Jackey Healy Rae politics - you take care of my sh*tty little concerns and you can have my vote, doesn't matter what your economic, fiscal, or social ideologies are, as long as you get the potholes fixed for me boss.

IMO, people who vote like this don't deserve one in the first place.

You'll see the OP asked what they'd done in Portlaoise in particular which is what I answered from my very limited experience. Im the first to admit I have a lot of reading to do before I vote so that my concerns on a national scale are addressed. But I can tell you now, I can't see your bum buddies Cowen and Gormley and the sham parties they represent being high on my list

ILA

Good question, I haven't thought alot about elections. Brian Stanley has done a lot of work in the local community, I've had a good few issues which he made representations on my behalf for which I was extremely grateful. He'd be a good representative in the Dail judging by how he represents people locally.

Like 2011abc, If you'd told me five years ago that I'd be considering Sinn Fein as an alternative I'd have said you were mad, but having saw them in action locally, I've been pretty impressed with the effort they put into things especially in the estates.

I would dispute this notion of "parish pump politics", the job of elected representatives is to represent their communities, as well as consider national issues.

Kingdom

adser53 wrote: »

You'll see the OP asked what they'd done in Portlaoise in particular which is what I answered from my very limited experience. Im the first to admit I have a lot of reading to do before I vote so that my concerns on a national scale are addressed. But I can tell you now, I can't see your bum buddies Cowen and Gormley and the sham parties they represent being high on my list

That's fine and it's a totally understandable respsonse. What the other poster is getting at (I think) is that the local issues should be dealt with by local councillors, the likes of Mr Stanley, who tbf has a very good rep, is a member of a party, who if they get elected, have some policies that are questionable to say the least.
So that when selecting your candidate, you should be selecting him/her on what their party can do on a National level, not what the person can do on a local level.

I mean look at our constituency. The ar$e has fallen out of Port, Clara is a mess, Tullamore and Portlaoise are relatively ok, but this would be the case anyway due to their status as county towns. Yet the same heads will continue to get elected due to parish pump voting.

Funkfield

Kingdom wrote: »

That's fine and it's a totally understandable respsonse. What the other poster is getting at (I think) is that the local issues should be dealt with by local councillors, the likes of Mr Stanley, who tbf has a very good rep, is a member of a party, who if they get elected, have some policies that are questionable to say the least.
So that when selecting your candidate, you should be selecting him/her on what their party can do on a National level, not what the person can do on a local level.

I mean look at our constituency. The ar$e has fallen out of Port, Clara is a mess, Tullamore and Portlaoise are relatively ok, but this would be the case anyway due to their status as county towns. Yet the same heads will continue to get elected due to parish pump voting.

THIS is the most important thing anyone can think about coming into the next election.

blondie7

Well anyone from portlaoise who votes for cowen should be ashamed of themselves, not just for the mess the country is in but for what he has been trying to do for the hospital for as long as i can remember. He wants to move maternity and Paedeatrics to Tullamore. If he has his way portlaoise hospital will be closed and everything moved to Tullamore! People need to think seriously who there voting for, i mean labour continue to tell us how f**ked the country is but they have yet to say how they plan to fix it, And i refuse to vote FG just because i dont want Enda Kenny running the country.

Shazanne

In the constituency I came from I always had my finger on the pulse as regards who was who and what was what in terms of the candidates and their party policies. I am finding it difficult to get familiar with there here and am not finding the local media too helpful to be honest.
Obviously I don't have any great interest in the Offaly end of things but who are the likely candidates in Laois and which parties are running candidates? Is there a Green candidate for example as I would love to chew the head off one of them:eek: Am also very anxious to meet the Fianna Fail and Fine Gael candidates - the firmer for what they have done and the latter for what I believe they will do. Labour does not come into it for me - I cannot stand Eamon Gilmore with his arrogant sound-bytes!
Who are the Independent candidates here and are they any good? And, finally, does Portlaoise have an open meeting whereby the public gets to meet and question all the candidates together in advance of the Election? I have found this hugely beneficial in the past.
Thanks:)

wildefalcon

The SF candidates are very hard workers for the community. Mr Stanley is a very fine Local Representative. He'd be hard to replace in the town. So, locally, SF have it, no question.

However I do worry about their National policies, they are, an extreme Socialist Group, with a rather violent history. Which they've not, yet, fully opened up about.

The Gombeen parties, Labour/FG and FF, are much of a muchness, more about the "Party" than the country, and I'd find it very hard to give them a vote.

So that leaves independents.


None have appeared yet, but I suspect that there will be one or two strong candidates standing.

I'd give them my vote - as any independent will always be on their toes.

Kingdom

In terms of voting for an independent, fair enough, but what do you expect an independent to do for you in Leinster House? The days of the human turkey and the corrupt slieveen from Tipp holding government to ransom are over.

There will probably be more independents elected than ever before, but they won't play a part in government.,

Shazanne

Maybe it's the fact that I come from the "corrupt sliveen's" constituency originally:eek::D

I would always give Independents a listen - if not a vote! For the most part (sliveens aside!) they have a greater fire in their belly at Election time and they generally have the local interest as opposed to the party interest at heart. I will be watching out to see if any emerge here.
Overall it would seem to me from the replies I have received to date that Portlaoise is very much a SF town. This, I am assuming, is largely due to the strength of the candidate?

wildefalcon

Yep, Mr Stanley is one hard working guy.

Ideally I'd like the whole Dail to be filled with independents, that way EVERY vote has to make sense.

No more party whip, every one has to be there in order to vote.

ILA

Its got to the point where local politics is the same thing as national politics. All candidates are looking at the national picture and their solutions to the problems.

As far as I'm concerned the politics of Fine Gael and Fianna Fail have clearly failed. They're literally the same policies in a different wrapping. A more equitable and sustainable society is necessary, and from the looks of things it seems only parties of the Left offer proposals towards that.

Having saw the calibre of Pearse Doherty recently along with what I've saw of Brian Stanley, I have no doubts that as far as political representation is concerned, my own vote would be in safe hands.

We can split straws till the next downturn about the violence of the past, but remember its said that if you spend all your time occupied with the past you'll miss the future. I refuse to part take in a new version of "civil war" politics which has brought the country to its knees.

madred006

Unfortunatly I could not see myself vote for Sinn Fein as they still have many branchs to their bow and we all know about them ,so that leaves Labour and Fine Gael ,the former having shafted a man who worked tremendously hard for people in his area and indeed still is to replace him with a surfing budda , so its fine gael im afraid

sydthebeat

there will be labour and sinn fein, but id also bet there will be 3-4 independents.... maybe single issue, maybe more.

Fianna Fail will NOT be getting any of my votes!!!!!

Anyone who votes FF in the upcoming election should take a long hard look at themselves and what theyre voting for. If they vote for local politics, then they should be ashamed!!!!

MickShamrock

Shazanne wrote: »

Overall it would seem to me from the replies I have received to date that Portlaoise is very much a SF town.

Very small sample size.

Shazanne

Fair point. But noone seems to be making a convincing argument for any of the others?
I am combing through the local papers trying to form my own opinions at this stage but now getting too much solid information.
I really want to vote in this election and I want that vote to count!

Evolution Enter

Is there a list of Laois candidates yet though?? FF haven't announced their ticket, is Flanagan running with a Laois running mate? I know Stanley and Whelan are obviously running, but who else??

LizT

blondie7 wrote: »

Well anyone from portlaoise who votes for cowen should be ashamed of themselves, not just for the mess the country is in but for what he has been trying to do for the hospital for as long as i can remember. He wants to move maternity and Paedeatrics to Tullamore. If he has his way portlaoise hospital will be closed and everything moved to Tullamore! People need to think seriously who there voting for, i mean labour continue to tell us how f**ked the country is but they have yet to say how they plan to fix it, And i refuse to vote FG just because i dont want Enda Kenny running the country.

Source? There's no room for maternity in Tullamore.

danlen

ILA wrote: »

Its got to the point where local politics is the same thing as national politics. All candidates are looking at the national picture and their solutions to the problems.

As far as I'm concerned the politics of Fine Gael and Fianna Fail have clearly failed. They're literally the same policies in a different wrapping. A more equitable and sustainable society is necessary, and from the looks of things it seems only parties of the Left offer proposals towards that.

Having saw the calibre of Pearse Doherty recently along with what I've saw of Brian Stanley, I have no doubts that as far as political representation is concerned, my own vote would be in safe hands.

We can split straws till the next downturn about the violence of the past, but remember its said that if you spend all your time occupied with the past you'll miss the future. I refuse to part take in a new version of "civil war" politics which has brought the country to its knees.

The close comparisons between the Fianna Fail and Fine Gael policies do tend to be remarkably similar. For that reason I probably wont first preference Fine Gael candidates.

That of course leaves Labour and Sinn Fein as the alternatives. As you correctly pointed out, Pearse Doherty has proved himself to be a very competent politician. He speaks well but he speaks fact, which is a rare trait within the present government.

However, I am very wary of voting Sinn Fein. Looking past their historical role in Ireland and focusing solely on politics, I feel they have a huge flaw: Gerry Adams. To me he has a very poor knowledge base of the main political issues affecting this country, especially economics. If you havn't heard his interview he did with a local radio station in his constituency a few days ago, have a google for it. He shows on several occasions a lack of understanding of the meanings of certain processes and also fails to explain how Sinn Fein would raise the 14-18bn he is talking about. This also goes back to the infamous 2007 debate where he was destroyed due to his lack of undertanding and coherance.

That leaves me to feel that Labour are the alternative. Which tbh isn't a bad thing as I believe they do have some very good politicians. I would be much happier with Gilmore in charge with Burton as finance minister than I would with any other combo right now.

dotsflan

john leahy is a very interesting candidate, he is a man who is dedicated to politics and is very much a man for the people, ive heard and seen lot of good stories about him so he'll be getting my vote

Shazanne

Ok - thanks for that! Can you tell me a little more about him? Where is he based? Is he affiliated to any party? Is this his first time out? Sorry for the questions but this is my first time to vote here!

dotsflan

Shazanne wrote: »

Ok - thanks for that! Can you tell me a little more about him? Where is he based? Is he affiliated to any party? Is this his first time out? Sorry for the questions but this is my first time to vote here!

http://www.offalyexpress.ie/news/Leahy-declares-Dil-ambition.6404048.jp

heres a link which should answer all your questions

Is mise le key

Here are all the candidates on wiki,

2011 general election

I would have to draw your attention to the United Left Alliance candidate Ray Fitzpatrick, having worked for Labour for years finally had enough when they have imposed their ex journalist in over all nominations from the party without even consideration to any of them.

I know i can tell you that he is 100% straight up guy & is totally opposed to the lies & corruption that has got us where we are.

artful_codger wrote: »

perhaps because, you know, they're more concerned with national strategic issues instead of cleaning up your green areas? What you're describing is 'parish pump politics' and it is a cancer upon our heads; it is what has led us to where we are - led by a bunch of people who stand for nothing except re-election. It's Jackey Healy Rae politics - you take care of my sh*tty little concerns and you can have my vote, doesn't matter what your economic, fiscal, or social ideologies are, as long as you get the potholes fixed for me boss.

IMO, people who vote like this don't deserve one in the first place.

While i am in agreement with you on your fundamental point, i would have to point out that if you are advocating FF in conjunction with this point you are miles off base, FF have proven that they cannot handle 'national strategic issues'!

Take a look around you, we are in ruins.

Funkfield wrote: »

THIS is the most important thing anyone can think about coming into the next election.

Agreed, the facts are that anything that is affecting your family then into your community, then into your county council, then to a national level has all been brought to bear by international influence in our affairs.

madred006 wrote: »

Unfortunatly I could not see myself vote for Sinn Fein as they still have many branchs to their bow and we all know about them ,so that leaves Labour and Fine Gael ,the former having shafted a man who worked tremendously hard for people in his area and indeed still is to replace him with a surfing budda , so its fine gael im afraid

Well if you were inclined to vote for Labour befor they imposed whelan, then why not vote for one of the Labour members that left because of it?

Ray Fitzpatrick.

wildefalcon

Ray is a very bright guy, I have a lot of time for him. He's a seriously qualified individual - aeroplane engineer, BER advisor and all!

He is not one to suffer fools, which would count in his favour in my book, but could annoy a lot around L/O.

I think that my first will be going to the Hesh McCormack, though. Jackie Healy Rae, without the class.

Is mise le key

Well every one can make up their own mind but dont forget to give a 2 or 3 to the guy you think next deserves a transfer over the crooks & me feiners.

sydthebeat

after seeing and hearing Sinn feins economic poilcy over the last few days i for one will not be touching them with a barge pole!!!!

they expect us, as a nation, to default on our debt... then they expect to raid the pension reserve fund to pay for our day to day spending on health, social welfare etc.. .and when that runs out, we're supposed to go back to the very bodies that we have burnt by our default and expect them to loan AGAIN to us to continue our current spending....

MADNESS!!!!

regardless of the bank mess (which IMHO should be resolved by the major bondholders taking a significant bashing).... we are still spending way more than we are taking in.. so its either cut seriously our public services, social welfare payments etc until such time our spending meets out tax take (whcih would set us back 40 years IMHO)... or we must accept this bailout, in a restructured form of agreement, and incrementally reduce our public spending and increase our tax take by creation of jobs.

Is mise le key

Well firstly, even the major hedge fund operator george Soros has said making Private debt sovreign debt was totally wrong & should never have happened.

So if we eliminate the €50B allocated to the banks that leaves us retaining €17B of the pension reserve fund for the states use, the fact that sinn fein have advocated using this to get the state back on its feet is shocking to you, is not as shocking to me that you think it is OK to go to the private losses of the bondholders.

Lets be clear here,

Private debt & Sovreign debt are seperate.

If we didnt cover the €50B of the banks (rightly & Justly so) & retained all €24B of our pension reserve fund, that only leaves a gap of €11B left if our borrowing requirments are €85B.

Now if we raised our Corporation tax by 2.5% as Dr. Michael Smurfit advocated for 4 years only by a few percent still leaving a huge incentive for companies to stay here as we would revert back to the 12.5% after the four years we would increase our CORP Tax intake by approx 3 billion extra a year given the projections on our exports going up to over €170B this year.

This alone would put us in a position of gaining €12B extra over four years & we are needing to cut €15B out of our public finances if we go by the EU deadline.

Now that leaves us with a borrowing requiment of €3B over four years if i have broken that down correctly as oppoosed to €85B we are going to be put into hock to.

There really is other ways to solve this but the patter coming out of FF & no doubt the incoming government is that they are taking the hard choices with the cuts, the truth is the hard choices are to make the Banks, Bondholders & Big Business pay for their mistakes.

Private losses are not sovreign debt, if we ditched this private debt we could solve our problems a lot easier & faster.

sydthebeat

Is mise le key wrote: »

Well firstly, even the major hedge fund operator george Soros has said making Private debt sovreign debt was totally wrong & should never have happened.
.

completely agree, and if you read my previous post youll see that i said that.

Is mise le key wrote: »

So if we eliminate the €50B allocated to the banks that leaves us retaining €17B of the pension reserve fund for the states use, the fact that sinn fein have advocated using this to get the state back on its feet is shocking to you, is not as shocking to me that you think it is OK to go to the private losses of the bondholders.

AGAIN, read my post, i said the complete opposite.

Is mise le key wrote: »

Now if we raised our Corporation tax by 2.5% as Dr. Michael Smurfit advocated for 4 years only by a few percent still leaving a huge incentive for companies to stay here as we would revert back to the 12.5% after the four years we would increase our CORP Tax intake by approx 3 billion extra a year given the projections on our exports going up to over €170B this year.
.

rubbish, lets be clear here, we actually have international firms washing their profits through our tax system precisely due to the fact of our 12.5% corp tax rate. Raise this even a little and you run the risk of these companies leaving to carry out similar practises in lower tax countries such as cyprus or the new european eastern states. Raising the corporation tax rate will also hinder the attractiveness of ireland for foreign direct investment.... we are already starting from behind when trying to be attractive due to our higher utility rates, wage structures and our dropping education levels.

raising corporation tax rates is another MASSIVE gamble i personally do not want our next government taking.....

Is mise le key wrote: »

Private losses are not sovreign debt, if we ditched this private debt we could solve our problems a lot easier & faster.

completely agree!!!!

we need to deal with this issue with our eyes open however, in a manner that puts as LITTLE risk onto the citizens of this country as possible.. not with a high risk strategy like SF are proposing.

Breoithepaul

Have you seen the list of the bond holders, one name that sticks out is Goldman Sachs.

sydthebeat

two major points here:

1. under IRISH LAW senior bondholders are treated in the same manner as depositors. If the the bank fails, they are entitled to be paid out. Im not saying this is just or right.... i for one think they should have to take a significant hit.... but lets just accept that its not a simple case of "let them eat cake".
There is as yet NO attempt to change this law!!!!!!
And as far as i can see no political party is proposing it either...

burning the bondholders is a catchy sound bite, but to achieve this is a whole other difficult story!!

I want this to happen, but i can see the difficulties present... SF doent seem to.

Another gamble in SFs policy is that, after the default, and they have to go back to the markets again for funding, they are completely open to whatever interest rate the markets wish to impose.... 10% anyone?? 15%? 20%??? who can control this??

2. a lot of irish investment is included in both the senior and subordinated debt.. either way irish taxpayers are going to be hit.. for example through their already flaccid pension funds


anyway, theres a strong feeling out there that this is a phony war anyway and that the senior bond holders are already paid off. This could be a major trojan horse!

Is mise le key

sydthebeat wrote: »

two major points here:

1. under IRISH LAW senior bondholders are treated in the same manner as depositors. If the the bank fails, they are entitled to be paid out. Im not saying this is just or right.... i for one think they should have to take a significant hit.... but lets just accept that its not a simple case of "let them eat cake".
There is as yet NO attempt to change this law!!!!!!
And as far as i can see no political party is proposing it either...

Will you provide the link to this on the statute books please?

Not doubting you just want to understand this law & how old it is etc.

sydthebeat wrote: »

burning the bondholders is a catchy sound bite, but to achieve this is a whole other difficult story!!

I never use soundbites, the bondholders should lose out if they play by capitalist rules, i.e. if your business is insolvent you go bust.

sydthebeat wrote: »

I want this to happen, but i can see the difficulties present... SF doent seem to.

Another gamble in SFs policy is that, after the default, and they have to go back to the markets again for funding, they are completely open to whatever interest rate the markets wish to impose.... 10% anyone?? 15%? 20%??? who can control this??

Just so we are clear here, i will be voting Socialist party,

Now as for this tripe you posted above, if this is the calibre of businesses that would start jacking up price to make us pay then by god then they should be hit for 100% of what THEY lost.

Add to this that that did not happen when russia deafulted on its debts, there are so many ways of the state borrowing money after we tell the bondholders to get stuffed that do you not think in a ruthless capitalist market if prices were going as high as 10 - 15% that you wouldnt then be getting offers from another source at 8-7-6-5-4-3%?

Of course you would because the 'investors' would recognise that rates as high as the scare tactic ones you spewed out are not repayable & would never materialise anyway.

Why else do you think you have the IMF now saying that some negotiation might be possible, & guys like soros publicly stating that it is wrond to pass private debt to sovreign debt?

Answer: they know that the interests rates as they stand are not sustainable & are getting rattled that it will lead to a real social backlash leaving their only source of reaping wealth potentially out of their reach.....the people of the nation in its entirety!!!

Change is coming, not just for ireland but for the entire EU, the writing is on the wall.

I for one will never advocate in any way that the state capitulate to private business that goes bankrupt & cover their losses.

New politics & business with new ethics & integrity is the only way forward, not a return to the same system that has brought us here & has so many people suffering & yes people are suffering!!!!

A vote for Ray Fitzpatrick is a vote for real a change that does not buy into the system that has ruined us and many other countries. I know that is what you here off all politicians but the facts are that all the establishment parties have bought into the rules & systems that got us here & intend to return us to that very same system which by its very nature will fail again bringin more misery in the future.

When your son, daughter, brother, sister has to leave this country because of the state we are in due to this fu.cked up international bookies system of gambling that is covered by entire states people if the bets are lost you will be kicking yourself if you give your vote to FF, FG, LP. Vote for a real alternative that will challenge the system that is cutting rates, services & pay in order to 'correct' itself.

A sustainable system that grows over time based on production & Labour & state controlled finacial institutions.

Vote for the United Left Alliance, Ray Fitzpatrick.

sydthebeat

and thus concludes the party political broadcast for...... :rolleyes:


to conclude, i will NOT be voting for any party who is proposing such a high risk stragety in a time where we need stabilisation and ressurance. Its just swapping the gambling of bankers for the gambling of politicians..... neither of whom i trust anymore!

Is mise le key

sydthebeat wrote: »

and thus concludes the party political broadcast for...... :rolleyes:


to conclude, i will NOT be voting for any party who is proposing such a high risk stragety in a time where we need stabilisation and ressurance. Its just swapping the gambling of bankers for the gambling of politicians..... neither of whom i trust anymore!

What gamble?

Dont cover €50B in Private losses, keep the €17B of the €24B pension reserve fund & raise the CORP Tax by 4% for four years & we would be in a far far far better position to actually create employment in Ireland.

The interest on the IMF' Bailout' will be heading towards €10B by 2014 should we draw it down fully by then........thats €10,000,000,000 in interest alone!!!!

You really do have to take a fresh look at this honestly, the recession will deepen if we cover the private banks losses, if we cut them loose we will get investment from other sources without a doubt at more favorable rates without a MASSIVE LOAN with INTEREST on our backs.

Evolution Enter

I can just picture this discussion taking place on doorways around Laois.

sydthebeat

Is mise le key wrote: »

if we cut them loose we will get investment from other sources without a doubt at more favorable rates without a MASSIVE LOAN with INTEREST on our backs.

glad you have so much confidence in international markets...

ill choose the devil i know, thanks...

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Is mise le key

sydthebeat wrote: »

glad you have so much confidence in international markets...

ill choose the devil i know, thanks...

Ahh now you assume i am suggesting borrowing from private lenders,

Once we axe the private debt we have been saddlled with,
Raise CORP tax for 4 years or so,
Tax 5% on wealth exceeding 1 million in deposits,
We would need a minor amount of Sovreign borrowing from Sovreign nations in order to put the private financial sharks out in the cold & eventually in a few short years break free from the mess we have been handed & 'bonded' into for decades if we allow the course of events to unfold the way they are.

People need to start thinking of other ways of getting us out of this swamp other than what is being propagated by the 'financial markets' & 'private lenders' as it is in their interest that we do not get out of it to quickly if at all.

I mean how much of a conflict of interest was it to have Brian lenihan negotaiting with the IMF when he works for them?

Lets be clear here also, the IMF is a private company & its polcies are not decided by any governments but by the company itself.

I mean how can we trust & go along with a man & government together with the IMF were denying there were any negotiations on Nov 17th,

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1117/economy.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1117/breaking26.html

While he was giving speeches to the IMF in the IMF building on 8th Oct 2010,

brian lenihan wrote:

The most pressing issue for Ireland now is the need to correct the mismatch between
what the Government spends and what it takes in by way of taxation revenue each year.
In setting the Budget for this year, my priority was to stabilise the deficit, and – excluding
one-off issues related to the banking sector – that is what is happening. The next step is
to put the deficit on a declining path so as to be below 3 per cent of GDP in 2014. I plan
to publish a four-year budgetary plan next month detailing the consolidation measures
necessary to achieve this. I have also reiterated to my European colleagues the
Government’s determination to reach the agreed deficit threshold within the agree
timeframe, and I want to stress this point again today.

Now if thats not indicating to you that the 'bailout' & our options for getting out of this have been contrived then it is a lost cause on some folks.

sydthebeat

Is mise le key wrote: »

Once we axe the private debt we have been saddlled with,
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illegal in the case of senior bond holders

Is mise le key wrote: »

Raise CORP tax for 4 years or so,
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absolute lunacy!!! could cause so much damage.. the risks of which are real and sever

Is mise le key wrote: »

Tax 5% on wealth exceeding 1 million in deposits,
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laughable. we already have a very high tax rate for our "wealthy"... and if you start taxing extra on deposits, the deposits will simply be moved to a better source.

we live in a world where wealth is so flexible and moveable.

you view that we can become some autonomous state with closed financial borders is simply so far outlandishly simplistic that its just plain incorrect. we cannot restrict movement of wealth around the EU or the wider financial world, thus we cannot simply say.. that money there is going to get taxed ever higher....

everything you propose simply cannot happen in view of the current legal status quo in ireland, EU and wider....

are you proposing to change european law??

Im afraid your policies are simply panderning to the masses... there hasnt been indepth investigation done...

can you assure the public that by "burning the bondholders" that that move would not impact their pensions, their life assurance policies.. even their own cash in deposit accounts????? ill answer that for you, no you cannot!.

I do belive they need to take a hit, i believe the debt needs to be restructured.... but in agreeable terms..... but not to the extent that you are saying, you simply saying proposing to default on the whole figure.... that is a hugely high risk stragety.

Is mise le key

sydthebeat wrote: »

illegal in the case of senior bond holders

Link?

sydthebeat wrote: »

absolute lunacy!!! could cause so much damage

So lets continue with damaging the lives of the people at the bottom instead of making the people that earn billions pay more, when you have one of irelands most successful business men Michael Smurfit telling you that the major companies shared in the great times when there profits were soaring then it is onlt right they should, to use his own words,
"ease the strain on the irish purse"

sydthebeat wrote: »

laughable. we already have a very high tax rate for our "wealthy"... and if you start taxing extra on deposits, the deposits will simply be moved to a better source.

we live in a world where wealth is so flexible and moveable.

Ahh i see so its blackmail is the order of the day, my reply above also reffers to this, huge wealth made when it was all good but dont even dare suggest that some should be given back when we are in the pits.

sydthebeat wrote: »

you view that we can become some autonomous state with closed financial borders is simply so far outlandishly simplistic that its just plain incorrect. we cannot restrict movement of wealth around the EU or the wider financial world, thus we cannot simply say.. that money there is going to get taxed ever higher....

everything you propose simply cannot happen in view of the current legal status quo in ireland, EU and wider....

are you proposing to change european law??

We would only be controlling our lending institutions so they are not so influenced by external factors.

One last point i forgot to mention is that we should be taxing shell up to 90% on all gas it takes from the west coast once works are complete, they did after all receive it for nothing.

sydthebeat

Is mise le key wrote: »

Link?
.

are you disputing this??????
its a commonly know fact.

Theres no point trying to convience me otherwise.. ive made my decision. I wont be voting SF, or ULA, because i am of the opinion that their economic policy is dangerous. i wont be voting FF for obvious reasons.

Is mise le key

sydthebeat wrote: »

are you disputing this??????
its a commonly know fact.
.

Is there much point in continuing this conversation if you cannot recall the first response i gave to you when you posted that,

Is mise le key wrote: »

Will you provide the link to this on the statute books please?

Not doubting you just want to understand this law & how old it is etc.

sydthebeat wrote: »

Theres no point trying to convience me otherwise.. ive made my decision. I wont be voting SF, or ULA, because i am of the opinion that their economic policy is dangerous. i wont be voting FF for obvious reasons.

So that means it Labour, FG or an independent, good man, because the economic policies that got us here wernt dangerous!!!!!

sydthebeat

Is mise le key wrote: »

Is there much point in continuing this conversation if you cannot recall the first response i gave to you when you posted that,

So that means it Labour, FG or an independent, good man, because the economic policies that got us here wernt dangerous!!!!!

you expect me to thrawl through statutory instruments to find something which is commonly held as law??? not happening!!!

perhaps you could read this

and ive already said that im not voting FF

joe_dunne

Atheist Ireland have written up six questions to ask all candidates, hey can be read here

Joe Dunne
Authentic Samurai martial Arts in Laois

mr. vain

Mr. Stanley for me, As a Dublin man living in Portlaoise he has welcomed me and my family to the town.

He also calls to our house in between elections. I will give my first preferance.

I could,nt pass him by.

Shazanne

Yes, he seems very popular locally. Just still very unsure about the Sinn Fein policies in general though. The party seems to have some really excellent candidates around the country but what would happen if they got into power?

elvis jones

I won't be voting Sinn Fein thats for sure, policies are the stuff of dreams.....not the good dreams either.

FF..........not a chance

FG.........kenny is a lemon and i really don't trust some of the waffle they have come out with

Labour..........Any vote that will help have Joan Bruton on the tv and radio more isn't a good one.

Green.......eh no, nuff said

Some of the ind i've looked at are members or former members or political parties so in my book not really indi.

The list is getting rather short rather quickly.

I am leaning towards Romiti as he hasn't been around the Irish political system that long and that can't be a bad thing really !

mr. vain

Shazanne wrote: »

Yes, he seems very popular locally. Just still very unsure about the Sinn Fein policies in general though. The party seems to have some really excellent candidates around the country but what would happen if they got into power?

One of the things that appeals to me about Mr. Stanley is his promise to live on the average industrial wage if elected, We are all feeling the pinch and its good to see a positive example beig set.

A few facts:
John Moloney Fianna Fail, not a bad guy and in politics a long time most likley to lose his seat this time.

Charlie Flanagan Fine Gael, holding the seat once held by his father the late Oliver J.

John Whelan Labour, once part of the Fianna Fail machine and a Journalist by trade.

John Moran Fine Gael, An absolute gentleman and a hard worker, A County Council member from south Laois.

Sean Fleming Fianna Fail, An accountant and former national director of Finance for the party.

Dont know Much about the offaly candidates but would follow the Laois scene in the local papers.