Keeping Fianna Fail in government would be best?

Brenireland

So no doubt my point of view will be controversial but let me make my case first.

Each day we turn on our T.V/Our Radio's,Each Day we read our newspapers,And each Day a new "story" is brought out to take down Fianna fail.

2&1/2 years ago it was compliment followed by compliment in most cases,Jobs created here/their & pretty much everywhere,Dublin was getting this that and the other/Dublin was happy,and most other part's of the country we're getting in new infrastructure we we're all happy.

Now as "The World" battles it's greatest Economic Depression since the Wall Street Crash Fianna Fail are the one's who pay the penalty.Why?

Now one of the main factors in Ireland's recession we're that 1) Our Economy was mainly built on the housing industry which no doubt burst 2) Our Banking system was run by some corrupt people 3) The majority of the people in the country took out loans which on behalf of the bank and the individual taking out the loan this was in no way sustainable.

Now solution for problem 1) we must come up with a new more sustainable industry such as energy etc...

2) Banking system & government from now on must work hand in hand figures & facts shared yearly among the public.

3) People learn from their mistakes.

We can learn from Our mistake,we All played our part,FF made mistakes,we all make mistakes.

Fianna Fail have a plan,we stick with is what I feel is best...

what do you feel is best?

Bogsnorkler

I feel we should install FF in power indefinatly and do away with elections. Sher there's no need, the other crowd would be worse :rolleyes:

Brenireland

Bogsnorkler wrote: »

I feel we should install FF in power indefinatly and do away with elections. Sher there's no need, the other crowd would be worse :rolleyes:

yes,however our country is a democracy and an election should always be held:D

The other crowd are probably not worth talking about.

The Volt

We as an electorate have to punish bad governance. Otherwise we won't get any better.

Bogsnorkler, I would love to borrow your crystal ball seeing as how you seem to be able to predict events that havent happened yet.

Bogsnorkler

Tell me this much, what would FF have to do to NOT be deserving of winning an election?

Edit; I believe that smiley denotes sarcasm. Damn the limitations of the internet!!!

raymon

Brenireland wrote: »

So no doubt my point of view will be controversial but let me make my case first.

Each day we turn on our T.V/Our Radio's,Each Day we read our newspapers,And each Day a new "story" is brought out to take down Fianna fail.

2&1/2 years ago it was compliment followed by compliment in most cases,Jobs created here/their & pretty much everywhere,Dublin was getting this that and the other/Dublin was happy,and most other part's of the country we're getting in new infrastructure we we're all happy.

Now as "The World" battles it's greatest Economic Depression since the Wall Street Crash Fianna Fail are the one's who pay the penalty.Why?

Now one of the main factors in Ireland's recession we're that 1) Our Economy was mainly built on the housing industry which no doubt burst 2) Our Banking system was run by some corrupt people 3) The majority of the people in the country took out loans which on behalf of the bank and the individual taking out the loan this was in no way sustainable.

Now solution for problem 1) we must come up with a new more sustainable industry such as energy etc...

2) Banking system & government from now on must work hand in hand figures & facts shared yearly among the public.

3) People learn from their mistakes.

We can learn from Our mistake,we All played our part,FF made mistakes,we all make mistakes.

Fianna Fail have a plan,we stick with is what I feel is best...

what do you feel is best?

Brian cowen couldnt drive a tractor in a bog .

FF is a party which supported corruption and whose members engaged in forgery , misrepresentation , perjury , tax evasion , drunk driving and most of all the worst treason in the state's history .

Liam Byrne

Brenireland wrote: »

Now as "The World" battles it's greatest Economic Depression since the Wall Street Crash Fianna Fail are the one's who pay the penalty.Why?

Why did you feel the need to put "The World" in inverted commas ? Is it a new variation on "Lehman's are to blame" ?

There's no denying that there's been a worldwide crash, but FF exposed us to the worst of it by ignoring the problems they were warned about and by refusing to regulate the banks.

In addition, FF are responsible for NAMA & the Anglo fiasco; those alone would prevent me from voting for them, because they were in absolutely no way what would have represented my views, which is everyone taking responsibility their own decisions and actions.

Brenireland wrote: »

We can learn from Our mistake,we All played our part,FF made mistakes,we all make mistakes.

What part do you think I played ?

Brenireland wrote: »

Fianna Fail have a plan,we stick with is what I feel is best...

What plan do FF have, exactly ? I've seen no evidence of one, apart from delay and deny and cross fingers.

Did FF even call in the IMF ? Because they said that they weren't on the way.

Brenireland wrote: »

what do you feel is best?

Get rid of those who caused the scale of the crisis.

The one thing that we can learn from our mistakes, as you suggest, is not to vote in people who have proven that they're not up to the job.

dharn

anyone who thinks that fianna fail should be left in government needs to see a psychiatrist urgently

Laminations

Brenireland wrote: »

So no doubt my point of view will be controversial but let me make my case first.

You don't have a case, and the post isn't controversial, it's ignorant, idiotic and borderline trolling

Each day we turn on our T.V/Our Radio's,Each Day we read our newspapers,And each Day a new "story" is brought out to take down Fianna fail.

Story in inverted commas? You think people are just making things up? There are scandalous stories because FF are scandalous. FF are destroying themselves, quit blaming the media for their failures

2&1/2 years ago it was compliment followed by compliment in most cases,Jobs created here/their & pretty much everywhere,Dublin was getting this that and the other/Dublin was happy,and most other part's of the country we're getting in new infrastructure we we're all happy.

2 1/2 years ago it wasn't truly known how much they were fvcking things up but there were warnings. And before you go blaming international factors, Honohans report put 75% of the blame on national policy and mismanagement. What's your bleedin point? Josef Fritzls neighbours thought he was lovely before they knew the truth, are you saying that because 40% of the population had a fondness for FF that they aren't allowed change their minds? Regardless of what 'stories' come out?

I'd say if you haven't changed your mind you are complicit in their failings and a traitor

Brenireland

Bogsnorkler wrote: »

Tell me this much, what would FF have to do to NOT be deserving of winning an election?

Edit; I believe that smiley denotes sarcasm. Damn the limitations of the internet!!!

It is the people on the street who have voted & made Fianna Fail the party they are.

And these people deserve respect,Ordinary joe soap's who realise Dev's party are the main/most informed & best educated party out their and the party most capable of getting Ireland's economy stabilised and start creating the job's again,Our Tax infrastructure for Multi-national companies is one of europe's most attractive!

Liam Byrne

Brenireland wrote: »

And these people deserve respect,Ordinary joe soap's who realise Dev's party are the main/most informed & best educated party out their and the party most capable of getting Ireland's economy stabilised and start creating the job's again,Our Tax infrastructure for Multi-national companies is one of europe's most attractive!

It hasn't been "Dev's party" for about 50 years. :rolleyes:

Secondly, we would need to "get Ireland's economy stabilised and start creating jobs again" if FF hadn't done what they did.

"most informed & best educated" ? How "informed" was Lenihan when he refused to even read reports about the dire status of Anglo ?

Thanks though - I needed a laugh!

dharn

Brenireland wrote: »

It is the people on the street who have voted & made Fianna Fail the party they are.

And these people deserve respect,Ordinary joe soap's who realise Dev's party are the main/most informed & best educated party out their and the party most capable of getting Ireland's economy stabilised and start creating the job's again,Our Tax infrastructure for Multi-national companies is one of europe's most attractive!

i think you are taking the p**s no sane person could believe this crap.. Devs party.. id say he is spinning in his grave this shower have destroyed his party

Bogsnorkler

Brenireland wrote: »

It is the people on the street who have voted & made Fianna Fail the party they are.

And these people deserve respect,Ordinary joe soap's who realise Dev's party are the main/most informed & best educated party out their and the party most capable of getting Ireland's economy stabilised and start creating the job's again,Our Tax infrastructure for Multi-national companies is one of europe's most attractive!

Na, you give joe soap too much credit. Joe soap cares about who fills his pothole, or who is generally regarded as "sound" around the county/city. FF are infairness great at local politics, and for looking out for their own.

They do not have the interest of the country at heart. Only their own.

Fitzerb

raymon wrote: »

Brian cowen couldnt drive a tractor in a bog .

FF is a party which supported corruption and whose members engaged in forgery , misrepresentation , perjury , tax evasion , drunk driving and most of all the worst treason in the state's history .

Can you show me where FF committed treason in the history of the State. Otherwise your post is just mud slinging and should be reported.

The Volt

Brenireland wrote: »

It is the people on the street who have voted & made Fianna Fail the party they are.

And these people deserve respect,Ordinary joe soap's who realise Dev's party are the main/most informed & best educated party out their and the party most capable of getting Ireland's economy stabilised and start creating the job's again,Our Tax infrastructure for Multi-national companies is one of europe's most attractive!

The people were misled by King Liar, Bertie Ahern. A man who, when told that things could turn sour for the nation, told the people he paid to advise to basically go and kill themselves for being so negative.

Ordinary Joe Soaps have been hugely affected by the gross mismanagement of this government. 15% unemployment, mass emigrations, closure of small and medium sized business, hospital waiting lists, awful public transport and thousands of homeless are just a few things that they have left this country to suffer with.

The Ordinary Joe Soaps of the next 30 + years will have to pay for the mistakes of Fianna Fail. Face it, your party is built on a foundation of avarice, corruption and lies.

Anyone left in Fianna Fail at this stage (and this goes from members all the way up to the top) is either stupid or corrupt. Get the message: The country wants you gone, disbanded, consigned to the history books, an ex-party. You have done more than enough damage to our economy and our society to last a hundred lifetimes. The state is less than 100 years old and you have basically handed back all of our sovreignity. We recorded a budget surplus for the first time in 1997 (A government FF were not a part of I might add) and you have taken only 13 years to bankrupt us completely.

People in Fianna Fail may be educated but only in the art of royally screwing the public at large in favour of helping to further their own aims and the aims of their fellow travellers.

Liam Byrne

Bogsnorkler wrote: »

FF are infairness great at local politics, and for looking out for their own.

Yes to the second part, but not to the first.

Wasn't there an FF TD in Cork who refused to represent people from his constituency because they hadn't voted for him ?

Job description : Represent constituency and get well paid for it
FF version : Look after only those who voted for him and give the others the two fingers

Laminations

Fitzerb wrote: »

Can you show me where FF committed treason in the history of the State. Otherwise your post is just mud slinging and should be reported.

But you're grand standing over the rest of it. Meeting a bunch of Anglo bankers months before guaranteeing their rotten bank, tying it to the state and then claiming you had no idea it was so rotten is economic treason.

dharn

it was a fine gael government who introduced the 12.5% corporate tax rate in the late 1990' s

Brenireland

I read all post's logically & with respect.

Sadly Logic is something which escape's many,how-ever no person/no Organisation/no Party are exempt from this.

Just look at The Labour party for instance,they agreed to allow the Government finish the remainder of their business in order to speed up the calling of a general election.

However instead they seek to waste time and push forward the date of their sought after election by trying to organise a vote of no-Confidence in Brian Cowen, Even Enda kenny said they were totally out of order...

Fianna gael according to some will be in the next government with Labour.

Laminations

Bren do you intend responding to the posters who have pointed out huge inaccuracies in your OP are are you just going to soapbox your blabbering nonsense propaganda?

Liam Byrne

Laminations wrote: »

Bren do you intend responding to the posters who have pointed out huge inaccuracies in your OP are are you just going to soapbox your blabbering nonsense propaganda?

Couldn't help notice that there was a straight question in the original post, and then everything that followed is simply repeated attempts to associate anyone who disagrees as "not logical", or "not ordinary Joe Soaps", etc, and no replies to the valid points raised as to the reasons why people disagree or the questions raised.

Time for the ignore button, methinks.......

Brenireland

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Couldn't help notice that there was a straight question in the original post, and then everything that followed is simply repeated attempts to associate anyone who disagrees as "not logical", or "not ordinary Joe Soaps", etc, and no replies to the valid points raised as to the reasons why people disagree or the questions raised.

Time for the ignore button, methinks.......

Liam I've just read your comment their now.

I apologise it's taken me some time to answer these "Question's",But It takes time to answer Question's based on fiction.

Some of these question's are more suited to the conspiracy forum.

Laminations

Theyll be easy to debunk so, just like your rubbish is easy to debunk. Now let's hear some answers

Brenireland

Laminations wrote: »

Bren do you intend responding to the posters who have pointed out huge inaccuracies in your OP are are you just going to soapbox your blabbering nonsense propaganda?

Laminations,Yes I do intend on trying to respond to to the posters who have pointed out "huge inaccuracies" in my OP.

soapbox?,my blabbering nonsense propaganda?....

not sure what your own question's are based on tbh,I'm not sure you do yourself.

Laminations

Heres a clue, go to the first page and look at the posts in reply to your OP. The questions are the ones with the question marks :rolleyes:

Liam Byrne

Brenireland wrote: »

Liam I've just read your comment their now.

I apologise it's taken me some time to answer these "Question's",But It takes time to answer Question's based on fiction.

Some of these question's are more suited to the conspiracy forum.

I posted my first questions at 9.24, which was before a number of your subsequent posts, so the above doesn't really hold water.

Also, not one of those questions was "based on fiction", so I'd appreciate if you could avoid being condescending when trying to dismiss questions.

Finally, since FF and their apologists are so "educated", you might want to bear in mind that there is no apostrophe required before an "s" that indicates a plural.

Brenireland

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Why did you feel the need to put "The World" in inverted commas ? Is it a new variation on "Lehman's are to blame" ?

There's no denying that there's been a worldwide crash, but FF exposed us to the worst of it by ignoring the problems they were warned about and by refusing to regulate the banks.

In addition, FF are responsible for NAMA & the Anglo fiasco; those alone would prevent me from voting for them, because they were in absolutely no way what would have represented my views, which is everyone taking responsibility their own decisions and actions.



What part do you think I played ?



What plan do FF have, exactly ? I've seen no evidence of one, apart from delay and deny and cross fingers.

Did FF even call in the IMF ? Because they said that they weren't on the way.



Get rid of those who caused the scale of the crisis.

The one thing that we can learn from our mistakes, as you suggest, is not to vote in people who have proven that they're not up to the job.

1.The world in inverted commas/"The World"=World banking systems.
Not Lehman's.

2.Sorry I did not mean to suggest you personally played a part in our countries downfall,What I did say was the Majority of our countries population did.

3.What Plan do FF have?,the plan has been set out & it is us up to us the people to make it work,The Budget is our guideline and by making the cut's we have we will make the intervention of the IMF & E.U a success as England did in the 70's.

4.Yes Fianna Fail & the Irish Government asked for the assistance of the IMF & E.U.

Liam Byrne

Brenireland wrote: »

1.The world in inverted commas/"The World"=World banking systems.
Not Lehman's.

2.Sorry I did not mean to suggest you personally played a part in our countries downfall,What I did say was the Majority of our countries population did.

Thank you for the above clarifications.

Brenireland wrote: »

3.What Plan do FF have?,the plan has been set out & it is us up to us the people to make it work,The Budget is our guideline and by making the cut's we have we will make the intervention of the IMF & E.U a success as England did in the 70's.

I have seen no plan, and if the plan includes NAMA & Anglo bailouts and massive pensions for TDs abandoning ship now that they might actually have to do some work instead of throwing money at problems, then sorry - I have no intention of helping them "make it work" because it's the wrong approach.

Respect and buy-in is a two-way street, and FF's decisions have been further damaging and do not represent me, which is why I want them out.

Brenireland wrote: »

4.Yes Fianna Fail & the Irish Government played asked for the assistance of the IMF & E.U.

Really ? So why did Cowen say the IMF weren't coming the day beforehand ?

Are you saying he was lying ?

If so, why should I trust him to be telling the truth about anything else ?

Brenireland

raymon wrote: »

Brian cowen couldnt drive a tractor in a bog .

FF is a party which supported corruption and whose members engaged in forgery , misrepresentation , perjury , tax evasion , drunk driving and most of all the worst treason in the state's history .

O.k. a pretty pointless statement all round.

Have you evidence to suggest any of what you say is true?.

including the statement with regards Brian Cowen not been able to drive a tractor in a bog?

Brenireland

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Thank you for the above clarifications.



I have seen no plan, and if the plan includes NAMA & Anglo bailouts and massive pensions for TDs abandoning ship now that they might actually have to do some work instead of throwing money at problems, then sorry - I have no intention of helping them "make it work" because it's the wrong approach.

Respect and buy-in is a two-way street, and FF's decisions have been further damaging and do not represent me, which is why I want them out.



Really ? So why did Cowen say the IMF weren't coming the day beforehand ?

Are you saying he was lying ?

If so, why should I trust him to be telling the truth about anything else ?

1.Yes,the IMF have no right to enter any country without the permission of that countries government.

2.I am not saying he is lying,as jointly the government asked for the good of the country that the IMF intervene.

Laminations

Brenireland wrote: »

1.The world in inverted commas/"The World"=World banking systems.
Not Lehman's.

75% of our problems have been attributed to home grown policy and governance, you cannot blame world banking systems.

2.Sorry I did not mean to suggest you personally played a part in our countries downfall,What I did say was the Majority of our countries population did.

There are 2000 people in NAMA. The head of NAMA (Frank Daly) has publicly said 'we are not all to blame, only a few are to blame'. What majority? Those who took out mortgages?? That may turn into a problem but so far only 5% are in trouble there

3.What Plan do FF have?,the plan has been set out & it is us up to us the people to make it work,The Budget is our guideline and by making the cut's we have we will make the intervention of the IMF & E.U a success as England did in the 70's.

Was the IMF intervention part of the plan? No? Then the plan didnt go to plan... How many corners have we turned at this stage? What policies make up this plan?

4.Yes Fianna Fail & the Irish Government asked for the assistance of the IMF & E.U.

When? Before or after they were in the country and FF were telling us 'nothing to see here'

Brenireland

Laminations wrote: »

75% of our problems have been attributed to home grown policy and governance, you cannot blame world banking systems.



There are 2000 people in NAMA. The head of NAMA (Frank Daly) has publicly said 'we are not all to blame, only a few are to blame'. What majority? Those who took out mortgages?? That may turn into a problem but so far only 5% are in trouble there



Was the IMF intervention part of the plan? No? Then the plan didnt go to plan... How many corners have we turned at this stage? What policies make up this plan?



When? Before or after they were in the country and FF were telling us 'nothing to see here'

O.k I would love to see where these 75%'s and 5%'s are coming from tbf.
The World banking systems play a huge part in our banking system it certainly contributes.

Look the U.S,U.k.,most of Europe & Australia have been effected by this banking crisis.

why would we not be hit.

I appreciate all the comment's do,it's great to hear these views.

Laminations

Brenireland wrote: »

O.k I would love to see where these 75%'s and 5%'s are coming from tbf.
The World banking systems play a huge part in our banking system it certainly contributes.

Look the U.S,U.k.,most of Europe & Australia have been effected by this banking crisis.

why would we not be hit.

I appreciate all the comment's do,it's great to hear these views.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0610/1224272194947.html

THE FIRST official reports into the causes of the banking crisis have concluded that home-made factors and not international financial volatility were to blame for the meltdown.

So please stop spouting crap that's been debunked months ago.

GuanYin

MOD

First off, quit the accusations of soapboxing and the back seat modding. They will lead to infractions. If you have a problem, report the post.

BrenIreland. You don't get to come here and demand evidence while simultaneously ignoring direct questions being asked of you.

In future, if you start a thread and then fail to engage in direct discussion and debate, the thread will be closed. If you continue to do it, sanctions may be imposed.


If you guys wish to continue, you do so by the forum rules.

Liam Byrne

Brenireland wrote: »

1.Yes,the IMF have no right to enter any country without the permission of that countries government.

2.I am not saying he is lying,as jointly the government asked for the good of the country that the IMF intervene.

Sorry, but #2 there is complete rubbish!

If the government asked for the IMF to intervene and Cowen & Lenihan said they weren't coming, then Cowen & Lenihan were lying.

The IMF can't come in without being asked, therefore the government asked.

Therefore Cowen & Lenihan lied, or else the IMF broke the first rule that you mentioned.

There is absolutely no wiggle room in that one, and no FF-style weasel phrasing will change the facts.

Brenireland

GuanYin wrote: »

MOD

First off, quit the accusations of soapboxing and the back seat modding. They will lead to infractions. If you have a problem, report the post.

BrenIreland. You don't get to come here and demand evidence while simultaneously ignoring direct questions being asked of you.

In future, if you start a thread and then fail to engage in direct discussion and debate, the thread will be closed. If you continue to do it, sanctions may be imposed.


If you guys wish to continue, you do so by the forum rules.

O.K.

I didn't mean for it to look as though I was Demanding evidence and I apologise.

however I have answered question's directed @ me.

but I apologise,I felt this was a good debate.

Brenireland

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Sorry, but #2 there is complete rubbish!

If the government asked for the IMF to intervene and Cowen & Lenihan said they weren't coming, then Cowen & Lenihan were lying.

The IMF can't come in without being asked, therefore the government asked.

Therefore Cowen & Lenihan lied, or else the IMF broke the first rule that you mentioned.

There is absolutely no wiggle room in that one, and no FF-style weasel phrasing will change the facts.

Brian Cowen & our government did ask for the intervention of the IMF.

After discussions with our fellow European countries Heads of states it was agreed by both parties involved (E.U & Republic of Ireland) that an IMF intervention would be for the best,whatever time of night this was agreed it was agreed and the IMF came.

Liam Byrne

Brenireland wrote: »

Brian Cowen & our government did ask for the intervention of the IMF.

After discussions with our fellow European countries Heads of states it was agreed by both parties involved (E.U & Republic of Ireland) that an IMF intervention would be for the best,whatever time of night this was agreed it was agreed and the IMF came.

:rolleyes: We know all that.

The point is that Cowen & Lenihan & other FF people said that they weren't coming.

Fitzerb

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Sorry, but #2 there is complete rubbish!

If the government asked for the IMF to intervene and Cowen & Lenihan said they weren't coming, then Cowen & Lenihan were lying.

The IMF can't come in without being asked, therefore the government asked.

Therefore Cowen & Lenihan lied, or else the IMF broke the first rule that you mentioned.

There is absolutely no wiggle room in that one, and no FF-style weasel phrasing will change the facts.

Aside from making the point over who did and did not lie what were the options at that stage.
And how do we know that any other approach would have worked.

In relation to the Banking Crisis my view is
The crisis is in part a result of wrong decisions made by the Government and made worse by the International crisis. It would be wrong to suggest that it is all on one side or the other. its a bit of both.
But what were the options other than the IMF.

As for lying if they knew they were coming on Monday you have to ask why lie on Saturday. ? wee need to think that out but the answer is not they are a lying shower of this and that. That aint totally stupid to think people would not know in 24 hours that the IMF were coming. There is some reason for it. I have my views but I would like to hear others.

leincar

Brenireland wrote: »

So no doubt my point of view will be controversial but let me make my case first.

Each day we turn on our T.V/Our Radio's,Each Day we read our newspapers,And each Day a new "story" is brought out to take down Fianna fail.

2&1/2 years ago it was compliment followed by compliment in most cases,Jobs created here/their & pretty much everywhere,Dublin was getting this that and the other/Dublin was happy,and most other part's of the country we're getting in new infrastructure we we're all happy.

Now as "The World" battles it's greatest Economic Depression since the Wall Street Crash Fianna Fail are the one's who pay the penalty.Why?

Now one of the main factors in Ireland's recession we're that 1) Our Economy was mainly built on the housing industry which no doubt burst 2) Our Banking system was run by some corrupt people 3) The majority of the people in the country took out loans which on behalf of the bank and the individual taking out the loan this was in no way sustainable.

Now solution for problem 1) we must come up with a new more sustainable industry such as energy etc...

2) Banking system & government from now on must work hand in hand figures & facts shared yearly among the public.

3) People learn from their mistakes.

We can learn from Our mistake,we All played our part,FF made mistakes,we all make mistakes.

Fianna Fail have a plan,we stick with is what I feel is best...

what do you feel is best?

Aah Brenireland you've given me the best laugh of the night. Sorry second best after Harney. Sorry third best after the debacle that is Hanafin. Anyhoo you've given me a laugh.

When will Fianna Fáil supporters finally realise that it is in fact Fianna Fáil's fault. The poet W.H. Auden described the 1930's as a "low and dishonest decade." That quote could also be ascribed to the ten years from 1997 to 2007. During this time this nation was duped by Bertie Ahern and Fianna Fáil that first of all they were the panacea to all the nations ills. Secondly they let this economy overheat and reduced taxes enormously. They knew that a lot of the 'Tiger' was built on the construction industry and sometime thats got to slow. Cowen just continued in the same vein despite the fact that his previous ministerial portfolio was Minister of Finance.

At some stage you and fellow 'Soldiers of Destiny' must and indeed should realise that the party you follow have brought this country to the verge of economic destruction and have made us a laughing stock around the world. I travel the world with my job and I'm recently back from Central and Eastern Europe. The atmosphere is totally different to that of this country at present. An atmosphere which hits you as you come through arrivals in Dublin. It is appaling, but what is worse, is your argument that somehow the party that have caused the mess, can somehow clean it up.
Thanks, but no thanks.

This country is in a total mess, and it will be enormously painfull for an unknown number of years, but in NO way will I accept the pain it will cause from the party that caused it.

I started a thread on Monday kinda, sorta about this but I'll take my chances with either FG/Labour or Labour/FG. The services of Fianna Fáil I gladly and willingly will dispense with.

Oh bye the bye we didn't all make mistakes.

CorkMan

3 more rats have jumped ship.

Brenireland

Liam Byrne wrote: »

:rolleyes: We know all that.

The point is that Cowen & Lenihan & other FF people said that they weren't coming.

but they came!!!;)

Anyhow,look I enjoy reading what you and all other posters have to say,And I mean that it's great.

Every opinion count's in the end.

Liam Byrne

Brenireland wrote: »

but they came!!!;)

Oh my good god! Why in god's name did you "laugh" at that ?

Seriously - do you even remotely see the point I was making ?

Or am I just wasting my time trying to have a coherent discussion based on the facts ?

One. Last. Try.

1) IMF can't come without Irish Government agrement
2) Cowen & Co say they're not coming, no discussions, no plans for discussions, no negotiations
3) IMF arrive within 24 hours or so

Therefore #2 implies that Cowen & Co lied

And my point is that if someone lies on a major issue like that I don't trust them.

Now, following the need to spell that out, I'm outa here! Life's too short!

GuanYin

Brenireland wrote: »

but they came!!!;)

Anyhow,look I enjoy reading what you and all other posters have to say,And I mean that it's great.

Every opinion count's in the end.

Please explain why you think that it is all OK when a Government finance minister categorically states that the country will not be receiving an IMF bailout and have not contacted the IMF and within a couple of days this turns out to be false and it appears that the IMF had been coming all along?

This isn't a small mistake or small change of policy. Do you think he knew that the IMF were called in when he made the statement? If not, why, as Finance Minister did he not know? If he did know, why did he tell the people otherwise.

You seem to be deliberately avoiding these points so now I'm asking you to answer them directly.

shadowqueen

Brenireland, can you honestly declare that you are not in the employ of FF at this time, and are not making these ridiculous arguments for any kind of personal gain or benefit?

Brenireland

Brenireland wrote: »

It is the people on the street who have voted & made Fianna Fail the party they are.

And these people deserve respect,Ordinary joe soap's who realise Dev's party are the main/most informed & best educated party out their and the party most capable of getting Ireland's economy stabilised and start creating the job's again,Our Tax infrastructure for Multi-national companies is one of europe's most attractive!

Evidently not.

Brenireland

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Oh my good god! Why in god's name did you "laugh" at that ?

Seriously - do you even remotely see the point I was making ?

Or am I just wasting my time trying to have a coherent discussion based on the facts ?

One. Last. Try.

1) IMF can't come without Irish Government agrement
2) Cowen & Co say they're not coming, no discussions, no plans for discussions, no negotiations
3) IMF arrive within 24 hours or so

Therefore #2 implies that Cowen & Co lied

And my point is that if someone lies on a major issue like that I don't trust them.

Now, following the need to spell that out, I'm outa here! Life's too short!

look iv'e given my opinion on all those matter's,fact of the matter is it was 24 hours after Brian Cowen's statement that the IMF arrived in the Republic.

Change's and decision's can be made in the space of 24 hour's.
Cowen did not lie,that's waffle.

GuanYin

MOD
The next person to make an implication or direct comment about another poster in any way, gets banned.

Brenireland

3 more resignations tonight Dermot Ahern,Noel Dempsey & Tony Killen.

Some big decisions ahead for Brian Cowen,we may see some fresh face's put in as replacements.

supersean1999

Brenireland wrote: »

3 more resignations tonight Dermot Ahern,Noel Dempsey & Tony Killen.

Some big decisions ahead for Brian Cowen,we may see some fresh face's put in as replacements.

haha fresh faces for 8 weeks, what a load of bollix, i hope every one he promoted does not get elected, i hope fg and labour and the press make a meal out of this, disgraceful

darragh16

Fianna Lemass anyone?

He had the right ideas