Calling all true ex-Fianna Fail loyalists!

gent9662

I would really like to ask the posters out there what it was that turned you away from Fianna Fail.

At what point did you call time on voting for them?

I know we all go around swearing and cursing FF for this and that, but I really would love to know how many true FF people have turned away from Cowen.

Comments appreciated

emo72

where are they?:D

gent9662

emo72 wrote: »

where are they?:D

maybe we should close this thread!

keithm1

emo72 wrote: »

where are they?:D

They're all too embarrassed to admit voting the crooked shower of bankers in

galwayrush

Quite a few will never turn against their party, no matter what they have done. Absolute devotion, cult like.

sligopark

for me it began with the Daddy P Flynn laughing at the Sligo chap who had had enough of corrupt politics, then Bertie who knew Ray Burke was a crooked bastard claiming he had searched high and low and found no evidence of this, then the whole Liam Lawlor thing, followed by the moriarty tribunal coming to the conclusion Bertie himself was a crooked baastard, then the re-running of Lisbon, the change of affiliation in the EU to a pro abortion/euthanasia party despite the ground cumainn being against abortion and euthanasia, lenihan and cowen meeting with bilderburgers prior to making a decision to bankrupt the country, the brians then agreeing to force the irish taxpayer (their children, grandchildren and great grandchildren) bail out european investor banks ...


I may have missed a few episodes but I think for many this would push any folk from voting FF again in the near future.

ninty9er

Since anyone who ignores an OP around here gets away with it I'm going to turn it around.

Why I told MY FF TD that it was in the best interests to keep Cowen

• It doesn't matter if he's talking, we pay him to be Taoiseach
• He is unwaveringly committed to public service (he would have quite long before now otherwise)
• He doesn't care what the media thinks (MM's BIIIIIIG mistake)
• Do the big red telephone test with all the alternatives...I know who I'd pick to answer it
• Only he knows what it feels like to have gotten it so wrong, therefore only he can know what it is to repay that. That is why he's at his desk, or conducting meetings to get us out of this instead of on the six.1 every evening
• It is precisely his invisibility that makes him the right person, If he was constantly visible, you'd have to ask was he doing anything at all to resolve the crisis

Why turn my back now. I'm not going to stand around deriding every bad decision, I'm here to shout, don't **** up again, and try harder. Brian Cowen is a committed Taoiseach, he may not be a dapper statesman, or he may not be a chirpy media performer, but they are optical leadership illusions, unless they are backed by commitment and determination, they may as well not be there. The commitment and the determination are the important bits, like the engine and the wheels of a car. The dapper statesman and media optics are like heated seats, electric sunroof and cup holders, they are pointless unless the car is roadworthy.

Liam Byrne

ninty9er wrote: »

Only he knows what it feels like to have gotten it so wrong, therefore only he can know what it is to repay that. That is why he's at his desk, or conducting meetings to get us out of this instead of on the six.1 every evening

Hang on......you seriously think that the guy whose catchphrase is "I don't accept that" actually knows that "he got it so wrong" ?

Also, commitment and determination are only useful attributes if one is competent, and has the best interests of the country at heart......e.g. the IRA used to have those attributes, as do the Mafia and the Dublin & Limerick drugs gangs.

gandalf

ninty9er is that seriously the best defence your local TD could give for supporting Cowen?! I think the only description for that is pathetic

Unfortunately Brian Cowen has driven the car off the road and broken the rear axle in a ditch. No amount of trying to turn the key in the ignition is going to get it back on the road.

Also isn't one of the main criticisms that an awful lot of people have of Enda Kenny is he is not a good media performer either. So basically you are now saying that Brian Cowen is exactly the same as Enda Kenny?

Laminations

ninty9er wrote: »

Why turn my back now.

Because they have fvcked up the country, if not now when? If not now i guess youll never turn your back.

I'm not going to stand around deriding every bad decision,

In other words you won't hold them to account

I'm here to shout, don't **** up again,

When were you shouting this? After they fvcked up the economy? After they voted confidence in Bertie? O Donaghue? O Dea? After they brought the IMF in and lied about it?

and try harder.

From when? With reference to what? Asked to take shorter breaks and reconvene sooner after Christmas FF declined. Cowen has been told he needs to communicate with the nation and reassure the people, how many chances you going to give him?

Brian Cowen is a committed Taoiseach, he may not be a dapper statesman, or he may not be a chirpy media performer, but they are optical leadership illusions, unless they are backed by commitment and determination, they may as well not be there.

Inspiring confidence in the nation is not an illusion - leadership is about leading, he has led us down the swanny. Dedication and commitment? Drinking til 3 the night before a national interview? Ministers refusing to return from holiday to address emergencies in their departments? Cowen is committed to FF more than the country as evidenced by his sudden fondness of broadcast media when his job was at risk.

The commitment and the determination are the important bits, like the engine and the wheels of a car. The dapper statesman and media optics are like heated seats, electric sunroof and cup holders, they are pointless unless the car is roadworthy.

Cowen ain't roadworthy, he is a busted flush. Saying that he is best person to fix the country because he fvcked it up is stupid logic. Do you contend that Roddy Molloy shouldve fixed FAS? Neary shouldve stayed on as regulator? Would you be so belligerent to suggest rapists should be the ones to grief counsel their victims? If you continue to vote FF you fail to hold them to account for their failings. Don't delude yourself that you support them for any noble reasons. I wonder where people like you draw the line. Apologists can hear no evil speak no evil and see no evil. You enable poor governance

Fitzerb

Laminations wrote: »

Because they have fvcked up the country, if not now when? If not now i guess youll never turn your back.



In other words you won't hold them to account



When were you shouting this? After they fvcked up the economy? After they voted confidence in Bertie? O Donaghue? O Dea? After they brought the IMF in and lied about it?


From when? With reference to what? Asked to take shorter breaks and reconvene sooner after Christmas FF declined. Cowen has been told he needs to communicate with the nation and reassure the people, how many chances you going to give him?


Inspiring confidence in the nation is not an illusion - leadership is about leading, he has led us down the swanny. Dedication and commitment? Drinking til 3 the night before a national interview? Ministers refusing to return from holiday to address emergencies in their departments? Cowen is committed to FF more than the country as evidenced by his sudden fondness of broadcast media when his job was at risk.



Cowen ain't roadworthy, he is a busted flush. Saying that he is best person to fix the country because he fvcked it up is stupid logic. Do you contend that Roddy Molloy shouldve fixed FAS? Neary shouldve stayed on as regulator? Would you be so belligerent to suggest rapists should be the ones to grief counsel their victims? If you continue to vote FF you fail to hold them to account for their failings. Don't delude yourself that you support them for any noble reasons. I wonder where people like you draw the line. Apologists can hear no evil speak no evil and see no evil. You enable poor governance

Firslty good to see a decent spread of facts and not populace shouting.

I am unsure if he is competent and I question some of the decisions but I am also unsure as to what any other Government would have done faced with the problems we had.
Did he make the right decisions ? In honesty I don't know, I see in the Indo today that some EU Finance guy reckons that because Ireland has funds secured that they will be in a position to go into the Bond market and get cheaper rates by mid summer. So was it right or wrong ? I don't know
I do accept that some of the problems are of their own making. I do think he does his best and works hard and I dont believe he is corrupt.

But he is the worst communicator since Crosgrave. He just does not get the importance of leading from the front. he may dislike the media and with good reason but that's the world we live in.

Also I think in life you need luck and this guy has none.
Just look at some of the things that happened of which he had no control over.
The first days in Office
Asgard Sinks (national Treasure)
Fanny May Goes bust 2 weeks into office
Leihmans Goes Bust 2 Months into office
Irish Stock Exchange collapses
Irish meat exports under threat because some twat throws a bread wrapper into a food mix.
Its just goes on and on and then to cap 2010 it snows heavy on the biggest shopping week of the year.
Not sure if none of the above had happened it would make a difference but you do need a little luck (and so do we)
But I have serious questions about playing golf with Fitzpatrick not what was discussed but the total stupidity of playing with him also nothing wrong with having a jar but doing so knowing he had an interview the next morning leaves you wondering if he thinks it out. Again the golf and the few jars wont be deciding factors in how I vote as I have done the same myself so I wont judge him on standards that I cant reach but I am not sure he is leader for this crisis. But neither is happy Gilmore and as for Enda, I wouldnt leave him minding sheep.

Liam Byrne

Fitzerb wrote: »

Just look at some of the things that happened of which he had no control over.

What about all the things that happened which he did have control over while Minister for Finance ? :eek:

Fitzerb

Liam Byrne wrote: »

What about all the things that happened which he did have control over while Minister for Finance ? :eek:

Some good and Some bad.

Liam Byrne

Fitzerb wrote: »

Some good and Some bad.

Some good and many astronomically disastrous, I would say.

superhooper

A through tough and strong leader would have put Harney out long before today . :mad:

sceptre

ninty9er wrote: »

he may not be a dapper statesman, or he may not be a chirpy media performer, but they are optical leadership illusions, unless they are backed by commitment and determination, they may as well not be there. The commitment and the determination are the important bits, like the engine and the wheels of a car. The dapper statesman and media optics are like heated seats, electric sunroof and cup holders, they are pointless unless the car is roadworthy.

Totally agree with that, it's part of the reason that the current x-factor-style shiny-toothed clone leader mentality in the UK annoys me.

I'd add "ability" though.

runman

It was the mahon tribunal that was the point of no return for me... Bertie embarassed us as a nation when he said he didnt have a bank account and just couldnt remember where the cash came from.

ninty9er

gandalf wrote: »

ninty9er is that seriously the best defence your local TD could give for supporting Cowen?! I think the only description for that is pathetic

That wasn't my TD response. That was me telling my TD he could go whistle if he wanted me to knock on a door if he shafted Cowen....he didn't think I'd stick to it, but I haven't knocked on a single door since MM was elected leader.

I didn't want him. It was the wrong time. And lest we forget, Brian Cowen is still Taoiseach, but because Labour and FG threw their toys out of the pram and forced an election they are no longer interested in slagging him off like they were for the previous 2 years. You have to question who the person with the integrity is there.

History is going to show Cowen as one of the most hard done by people to ever grace Irish politics. Shafted by his predecessor, his TDs and his civil service.

If you don't agree I don't particularly care.

gimme5minutes

ninty9er wrote: »

That wasn't my TD response. That was me telling my TD he could go whistle if he wanted me to knock on a door if he shafted Cowen....he didn't think I'd stick to it, but I haven't knocked on a single door since MM was elected leader.

I didn't want him. It was the wrong time. And lest we forget, Brian Cowen is still Taoiseach, but because Labour and FG threw their toys out of the pram and forced an election they are no longer interested in slagging him off like they were for the previous 2 years. You have to question who the person with the integrity is there.

History is going to show Cowen as one of the most hard done by people to ever grace Irish politics. Shafted by his predecessor, his TDs and his civil service.

If you don't agree I don't particularly care.

Lol, hard done by....This is the same Cowen that oversaw ENORMOUS disasters such as the blanket bank guarantee and NAMA, disgraceful cronyism, disgraceful refusal's to hold democratic by-elections, lying to the Irish public on the IMF intervention, sacking several of his Cabinet during these critical times so he could use their positions purely to get an election boost for their replacements, partying away all night down in galway (making a laugh of Philip Walton in the process) while the country was going the tubes, appointing 'major business intellects' such as Paidi o Sé to state boards (http://www.bim.ie/templates/text_content.asp?node_id=1126 - wow look at his impressive CV compared to the other names listed on that page). No wonder the country is ****ed when you have FF making appointment such as this, not to mention Pat Neary and Roddy Molloy who all got nice big golden handshakes to keep quiet and sail off into the sunset.

That's not even factoring in his disastrous time as Minister for Finance when he was asleep at the wheel (when he wasn't drunk) and did zero to prevent the property bubble, quite the opposite in fact. Such as changing laws to let the banks borrow more...for god sake.

Cowen was an utter disgrace. I am just sorry the media have stopped focusing on golfgate now that the GE campaign is under way. Golfing and dining with several of the top men of Anglo Irish Bank at a time when it was in freefall and had massive implications for the country. And he says they didn't talk about it.....lol...that is simply not believable. It's even worse than Bertie's 'I won it on the horses line' - Cowen is either lying (my moneys on this) or else he is even more incompetent than we thought.

And you think this moron was hard done by? The ****ing country was hard done by to end up with this twat as Taoiseach during our biggest crisis in decades.

FF stand for nothing, they have no ideology other than being in power. Great party you chose to join. There is no point trying to defend the indefensible anymore. Everybody realises it now, FF are found out, there has been so much crap over the last few years that it is impossible for them to spin it anymore. That's why even lifelong FF supporters, with a family history of strong FF support, are now leaving them. I have heard a number of these FF people say that the party is no longer the great party of the past and they are extremely angry and disappointed at what it has become under Bertie, Haughey, Cowen, Lenihan, etc...

When decent honest lifelong hardcore supporters of the party can no longer stomach it anymore it's time to give up.

jmayo

ninty9er wrote: »

That wasn't my TD response. That was me telling my TD he could go whistle if he wanted me to knock on a door if he shafted Cowen....he didn't think I'd stick to it, but I haven't knocked on a single door since MM was elected leader.

I didn't want him. It was the wrong time. And lest we forget, Brian Cowen is still Taoiseach, but because Labour and FG threw their toys out of the pram and forced an election they are no longer interested in slagging him off like they were for the previous 2 years. You have to question who the person with the integrity is there.

History is going to show Cowen as one of the most hard done by people to ever grace Irish politics. Shafted by his predecessor, his TDs and his civil service.

If you don't agree I don't particularly care.

Did you write this drivel after too many pints in the Stables ?

You claim Labour and FG were slagging him off.
Good God the guy wrecked the country and was a disgrace.

No dear disillusioned ffer, history will show cowen was one of the most incompetent, arrogant, stubborn, unethical, ill equipped, over hyped by his own party and over paid morons to have ever graced Irish politics.

He may not have the total whiff of corruption some of his predessors have had, but by God he made up for in equal measure with incompetence.

You reckon that your ff TD (was that peter power by any chance or was it niall collins one of whom I recall you lauding in some thread or other ?) was a backstabber, because he actually did something half right eventually and got the incompetent out of the leadership.

Funny thing is ffers reckon he isn't good enough to lead them, but good enough to lead the country.

Party before country ?

scr123

Interesting thread I obviously missed

The ABFF do not understand FF and who votes for the party. The ABFF are too busy hating FF and trapped in their left or right political and economic mentality.

I do not have exact figures but do suspect 2/3ds of FF voters are people like me who vote FF not because of family tradition but simply because FF as history shows have been in power when the economy came good and there was plenty of money and jobs.
The core 1/3rd FF voters are the diehards with many still seeing Dev as the saviour of the nation. The ABFF see them as dumb people but the ABFF like to forget that they in turn can be accused of diehard attitudes.

We had our first ever boom and it was BIG ! This was followed by a tsunami of a bust nationally and internationally.

FF are now in a position where the "money and jobs" voters have deserted the party in anger and possibly half of the diehards are so sickened by the way things have gone they are telling the pollsters they will never vote FF again. In effect the economic tsunami has created a sense of betrayal in the majority of those who vote FF and galvanised the ABFF as never before. Years of rejection of the ABFF by the electorate now has the ABFF convinced the tide has turned and FF are dead in the water.
There is no denying the voters are going to be vindictive and hammer FF but these are the same voters who in 2008 voted No to Lisbon 1 mainly on an anti FF and anti immigration platform but who then realised the error of their ways 12+ months later and voted 2 to 1 in favour of Lisbon 2 !

Politically where we are now is the ABFF walking around with a silly grin on their faces believing their divine right to run the country has arrived and FF are destroyed.

The ABFF are forgetting a simple fact of life, they are inherently bitterly divided and facing in to a period of government they do not have the courage, the character nor the abilities to achieve what those who have deserted FF want, an economy that works for the whole of the country rather than the ABFF sectional interests.

Happy days are not on the way and the suffering imposed by the ABFF government will draw people back in to the FF fold

Dannyboy83

gimme5minutes wrote: »

The ****ing country was hard done by to end up with this twat as Taoiseach during our biggest crisis in decades.

QFT.

I was never a Fianna Fail Loyalist, but I did vote for Fianna Fail in 1997, voted for Michael Martin. (I was young, dumb and full of fun)

I wasn't going to vote for them this time round, obviously, just as I didn't last time round or the time before that, but I did recently momentarily renounce my ABFFness, when MM took over as leader.
He seemed to be making all the right noises and seemed intent on real reform.
Then he went and put the likes of Coughlan, Kelleher and O'Dea back in his cabinet.
:rolleyes:FFS! Reform my hole. :rolleyes:

Same ol, same ol.
Fooled me twice.
Shame on me for getting sucked in (albeit briefly!)

(It looks like Michael McGrath is going to lose his seat in Cork, despite realistically being the best politician Cork has to offer in my opinion, but that's what happens when you 'get in with wrong crowd'.)

caseyann

You can not blame cowen for it all,stupid man let them all dump it on him.He should have refused and not took over.

Oh and i have not ever voted fianna fail.As i never trusted them.

Brenireland

I do not like this thread,I believe it is pointless.

This is I imagine what a lot of you Fianna Fail haters were thinking 4 years ago....

"oh yes!,Fianna Fail are great,They really have done a good lot for our country's infrastructure & Transport Systems.
They created jobs for us & allowed us to take out huge loans,which we know we can't pay back,but hey,no worries we'll blame the government if we can't"

So it was not all Fianna Fails fault,thread is a joke.

Liam Byrne

scr123 wrote: »

I do not have exact figures but do suspect 2/3ds of FF voters are people like me who vote FF not because of family tradition but simply because FF as history shows have been in power when the economy came good and there was plenty of money and jobs.

Given that FF apologists use the length of time in power as an excuse for corruption, isn't it logical to say that if they're long enough in power they might (however temporarily) get something right ?

Of course, even then there are two issues with that; firstly, even your phrasing of the above is passive - "when the economy came good" - and secondly it didn't actually "come good"; a boom of the size that FF allowed to develop is not good.

scr123 wrote: »

The core 1/3rd FF voters are the diehards with many still seeing Dev as the saviour of the nation. The ABFF see them as dumb people....

And rightly so, since voting based on a dead person's once membership of a party is ridiculous.

I would have voted PD when O'Malley was in charge, but it wasn't long before he and his ethos were long gone and I stopped voting for them. It would have been dumb to do otherwise.

scr123 wrote: »

We had our first ever boom and it was BIG ! This was followed by a tsunami of a bust nationally and internationally.

It was let get BIG - too BIG.

scr123 wrote: »

Happy days are not on the way and the suffering imposed by the ABFF government will draw people back in to the FF fold

The "ABFF" :rolleyes: government has no choice but to cause suffering because of the way FF have left the country's finances.

Liam Byrne

caseyann wrote:

You can not blame cowen for it all,stupid man let them all dump it on him.He should have refused and not took over.

You do know that he was Minister for Finance before he was Taoiseach ? You know - the guy who's meant to be in charge of the economy and finances ?

Brenireland wrote: »

This is I imagine what a lot of you Fianna Fail haters were thinking 4 years ago....

"oh yes!,Fianna Fail are great,They really have done a good lot for our country's infrastructure & Transport Systems.

You're wrong. I voted against FF 4 years ago (and before that too) because I detested where they were leading us.

So try to imagine more realistic options, please.

caseyann

Liam Byrne wrote: »

You do know that he was Minister for Finance before he was Taoiseach ? You know - the guy who's meant to be in charge of the economy and finances ?



You're wrong. I voted against FF 4 years ago (and before that too) because I detested where they were leading us.

So try to imagine more realistic options, please.

I know that but he didnt do anything without say so of Bertie and rest of party backing it up.He is at fault i never said he wasnt but he doesnt deserve the whole hit.

Laminations

ninty9er wrote: »

Why I told MY FF TD that it was in the best interests to keep Cowen

• It doesn't matter if he's talking, we pay him to be Taoiseach
• He is unwaveringly committed to public service (he would have quite long before now otherwise)
• <snip>

Unwaiveringly committed? So unwaiveringly committed that he has left politics and the country in sh1te and refused to stand in the next election. That suggests he was unwaiveringly committed to his pay packet. He SHOULD have quit long ago.

Laminations

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

(It looks like Michael McGrath is going to lose his seat in Cork, despite realistically being the best politician Cork has to offer in my opinion, but that's what happens when you 'get in with wrong crowd'.)

Exactly. Likewise we wouldn't eat an 'haute cuisine' dinner out of a dirty diaper. We'd prefer just to have a simple tv dinner or microwavable meal. You cannot separate candidate from party, not in terms of policy (because of the whip system) and not in terms of standards

Laminations

Liam Byrne wrote: »

You're wrong. I voted against FF 4 years ago (and before that too) because I detested where they were leading us.

So try to imagine more realistic options, please.

Same with me but what he is failing to recognise is that in 2007 people were fooled, they did not see the train coming (and people didn't care enough about politics) but since 2007 the cat is out of the bag, we have far more detail on how FF were running things and how it was bad. And people now seem to care more about politics* - is Bren suggesting they shouldn't?So in light of all this new information if you had voted FF previously and haven't changed your mind about FF, then you should expect labels like 'loyal', 'blinkered', 'diehard'.

*I'd love to see membership rates on boards or posting frequency in the politics forum and how it has changed for 2002-2005 vs 2008-2011

scr123

Brenireland wrote: »

I do not like this thread,I believe it is pointless.

This is I imagine what a lot of you Fianna Fail haters were thinking 4 years ago....

"oh yes!,Fianna Fail are great,They really have done a good lot for our country's infrastructure & Transport Systems.
They created jobs for us & allowed us to take out huge loans,which we know we can't pay back,but hey,no worries we'll blame the government if we can't"

So it was not all Fianna Fails fault,thread is a joke.

The main reason I despise the fanatic ABFF brigade is because not once has a single one of them ever acknowledged that something good happened under FF since FF first came to power in 1932. To me the ABFF is full of bigots who live in a dream world of their own making where they execute all dissidents and those who cannot share their lunatic extreme views

Brenireland

Laminations wrote: »

Same with me but what he is failing to recognise is that in 2007 people were fooled, they did not see the train coming (and people didn't care enough about politics) but since 2007 the cat is out of the bag, we have far more detail on how FF were running things and how it was bad. And people now seem to care more about politics* - is Bren suggesting they shouldn't?So in light of all this new information if you had voted FF previously and haven't changed your mind about FF, then you should expect labels like 'loyal', 'blinkered', 'diehard'.

*I'd love to see membership rates on boards or posting frequency in the politics forum and how it has changed for 2002-2005 vs 2008-2011

That's rubbish to be fair.

Laminations

Brenireland wrote: »

That's rubbish to be fair.

What is rubbish?
That currently people know more about how FF ran the country than in 2007?
Or that people are now generally more interested in politics?

Please explain your throwaway sentences.

Laminations

scr123 wrote: »

The main reason I despise the fanatic ABFF brigade is because not once has a single one of them ever acknowledged that something good happened under FF since FF first came to power in 1932. To me the ABFF is full of bigots who live in a dream world of their own making where they execute all dissidents and those who cannot share their lunatic extreme views

1932??

Why do we need to view their entire existence? We are only concerned with their performance over the past few years, same way the share price for Ford isn't determined by the invention of the model T. Current form matters and even according to FFers, they have no form currently. Jim McDaid has said he thinks they have not gotten their act together and have a weak front bench compared to the FG candidates.

Oh and to help curb your dispiseableness for the mythical group ABFF:

Plastic bag levy = good
Smoking ban = good
Transport 21 = good but badly implemented, misprioritised and overpaid for

Now can you list positives in the other direction??

Brenireland

Laminations wrote: »

What is rubbish?
That currently people know more about how FF ran the country than in 2007?
Or that people are now generally more interested in politics?

Please explain your throwaway sentences.

well,like you said people are becoming more interested in politics & that means more gob****es are coming out of the woodwork.

The state of our economy had in fact very little to do with the FF Political Party but rather the banks & how they were been run,now the banks have been nationalised & Fianna Fail have in fact stabilized the economy.

It was those of whom took out large loans but were always going to be unable to pay them back,those are the ones who should feel the pinch.

Fianna Fail have Real Plans now,& if you want a better Future you'll know who to vote for.

Liam Byrne

Brenireland wrote: »

Fianna Fail have Real Plans now

Now ? Why "now" ? They were in power for years.....why didn't they have real plans then ?

Brenireland wrote: »

,& if you want a better Future you'll know who to vote for.

Agree 100%. And I'll be acting / voting accordingly.

Brenireland

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Now ? Why "now" ? They were in power for years.....why didn't they have real plans then ?



Agree 100%. And I'll be acting / voting accordingly.

Now & For the future.

If FG/Labour get into government their will be no future for our little nation.

Bottom line is your voting Fianna Fail then?.

It's just a pity Kenny & a few others didn't go to meet her the last time out; we might have actually gotten something that was even remotely in the interests of the country.

& just on your post on a previous thread,I am presuming you maybe a FG supporter?,I maybe wrong.

The reason I bring up your post is that Fine Gael are fond of contradicting themselves!,If you recall Fine Gael helped seal the EU/IMF Deal & agreed with Fianna Fail that this Deal was in fact thee best Deal.

Now FG are looking to renegotiate this Deal,A deal they already agreed on!,Now,when You vote in Fine Gael how do you know the wont reverse their policies?....

Brenireland

Laminations wrote: »

1932??

Why do we need to view their entire existence? We are only concerned with their performance over the past few years, same way the share price for Ford isn't determined by the invention of the model T. Current form matters and even according to FFers, they have no form currently. Jim McDaid has said he thinks they have not gotten their act together and have a weak front bench compared to the FG candidates.

Oh and to help curb your dispiseableness for the mythical group ABFF:

Plastic bag levy = good
Smoking ban = good
Transport 21 = good but badly implemented, misprioritised and overpaid for

Now can you list positives in the other direction??

Fine Gael are weak!,this country needs a stable government & should Fine Gael get into government they may further damage our country.

Even within Fine Gael ranks their is No stability,Enda Kenny is not capable of leading a Political Party,never mind our country.

Take Noonan & Bruton out of the picture and the Fine Gael Party is Nothing.

galwayrush

Brenireland wrote: »

Fine Gael are weak!,this country needs a stable government & should Fine Gael get into government they may further damage our country.

Even within Fine Gael ranks their is No stability,Enda Kenny is not capable of leading a Political Party,never mind our country.

Take Noonan & Bruton out of the picture and the Fine Gael Party is Nothing.

FF 's record for the past number of years has been an exercise of greed, corruption and cronyism to the extreme. The country never came before the party, i would find it impossible to think that they will ever change in that regard. Yes, they have real plans, but they concern the party ,i.e. get elected at any cost .
FG, Labour would be a fresh start, but it will be an almost impossible task to rebuild and fix the damage done after FF's tenure.

Liam Byrne

Brenireland wrote: »

If FG/Labour get into government their will be no future for our little nation.

There's probably no future anyway, give FF's catastrophic reign.

Brenireland wrote: »

Bottom line is your voting Fianna Fail then?.

Not a hope in hell. I'd rather follow Bertie Ahern's advice.

Brenireland wrote: »

& just on your post on a previous thread,I am presuming you maybe a FG supporter?,I maybe wrong.

You are wrong. I have no party allegiance whatsoever and will be voting a combination of Independent, Labour & FG based on their policies and answers while canvassing.

Brenireland wrote: »

Now,when You vote in Fine Gael how do you know the wont reverse their policies?....

How do I know anyone won't reverse their policies? I do know that FF have given me more reason to distrust them than others, based on their lies to date ("cheapest bailout ever", "the IMF are not coming", "we weren't warned", "it's all Lehman's fault", etc) but I am not naive.

How do you know that FF won't reverse their "New Plan" policies ?

edwalsh

runman wrote: »

It was the mahon tribunal that was the point of no return for me... Bertie embarassed us as a nation when he said he didnt have a bank account and just couldnt remember where the cash came from.

won it on the horses,the kind of answer you would expect from a drug dealer.

Brenireland

Liam Byrne wrote: »

There's probably no future anyway, give FF's catastrophic reign.



Not a hope in hell. I'd rather follow Bertie Ahern's advice.



You are wrong. I have no party allegiance whatsoever and will be voting a combination of Independent, Labour & FG based on their policies and answers while canvassing.



How do I know anyone won't reverse their policies? I do know that FF have given me more reason to distrust them than others, based on their lies to date ("cheapest bailout ever", "the IMF are not coming", "we weren't warned", "it's all Lehman's fault", etc) but I am not naive.

How do you know that FF won't reverse their "New Plan" policies ?

Fianna Fail are a party with A Real Plan for A Better Future.

In many cases "the devil you know,is better than the devil you don't know",I feel bad having to compare FF as been Devil-like but if that's what I must do to get the point through the Thickness so be it.

However I feel FF have been hard done by,by both the media & the Opposition.

Mr.Micro

Brenireland wrote: »

Fianna Fail are a party with A Real Plan for A Better Future.

In many cases "the devil you know,is better than the devil you don't know",I feel bad having to compare FF as been Devil-like but if that's what I must do to get the point through the Thickness so be it.

However I feel FF have been hard done by,by both the media & the Opposition.

You cannot be for real FF FF FF. Wake up, FF have bankrupted the country. The nerve even seeking reelection. What this Government did to the nation is tantamount to treason IMO. My old uncle who is 90 said that FF for as long as he can remember was a party of backhanders and cronyism. The nation deserves better than the Fianna Failures. We have never had as bad a Government as this last lot. Roll on the GE and hopefully FF will be destroyed for good.

galwayrush

Brenireland wrote: »

Fianna Fail are a party with A Real Plan for A Better Future.

In many cases "the devil you know,is better than the devil you don't know",I feel bad having to compare FF as been Devil-like but if that's what I must do to get the point through the Thickness so be it.

However I feel FF have been hard done by,by both the media & the Opposition.

Aww, what did the Opposition do on FF?.....Thankfully it looks like most people have woken up to what FF did in destroying this country and will be voting accordingly in the G.E.

jmayo

Brenireland wrote: »

well,like you said people are becoming more interested in politics & that means more gob****es are coming out of the woodwork.

Ah don't run yourself down so much.

Brenireland wrote: »

The state of our economy had in fact very little to do with the FF Political Party but rather the banks & how they were been run,now the banks have been nationalised & Fianna Fail have in fact stabilized the economy.

Ehh exccuse me there, who the f**k was in charge of the country, setting tax policy, in charge of Dept of finance which is supposedly in charge of CB and IFSRA ?
Oh and who was one of the best paid set of government ministers and one of the best paid prime minsters in the democratic world ?

Brenireland wrote: »

It was those of whom took out large loans but were always going to be unable to pay them back,those are the ones who should feel the pinch.

You mean the ones whose loans are in NAMA, the same people who were invited into a tent in Galway every summer, the ones who played golf and dined with the minister of finance and taoiseach ?

Brenireland wrote: »

Fianna Fail have Real Plans now,& if you want a better Future you'll know who to vote for.

[/QUOTE]

As othe rposter said why didn't they bother planning properly over the last 14 years ?
Oh wait they did have a plan.
I think it was how to make sure all the seanies, bernies, johnnys etc got very rich.

By God for some that claimed on another thread you are not ff, you must be one of their best non ff friends ? :rolleyes:

Brenireland wrote: »

Fine Gael are weak!,this country needs a stable government & should Fine Gael get into government they may further damage our country.

And what did ff giver us over the last year, where they were too afraid to give the people in three constituencies their democratic rights ?

Brenireland wrote: »

Even within Fine Gael ranks their is No stability,Enda Kenny is not capable of leading a Political Party,never mind our country.

Well then he would make a perfect sucessor to the last two ff prime minsters wouldn't he ?

Dannyboy83

Brenireland wrote: »

I do not like this thread,I believe it is pointless.

This is I imagine what a lot of you Fianna Fail haters were thinking 4 years ago....

"oh yes!,Fianna Fail are great,They really have done a good lot for our country's infrastructure & Transport Systems.
They created jobs for us & allowed us to take out huge loans,which we know we can't pay back,but hey,no worries we'll blame the government if we can't"

So it was not all Fianna Fails fault,thread is a joke.

This statement doesn't make any sense to be honest.

People used to think that the Catholic church were good until they found out it was infested with paedophiles.
People thought Fianna Fail were good until realised they had in fact totally screwed the country and pocketed serious cash in the process.

I'm not sure what your point is.

Do you mean "turn the other cheek" or something?

tomo75

Brenireland wrote: »

Fianna Fail are a party with A Real Plan for A Better Future.
In many cases "the devil you know,is better than the devil you don't know",I feel bad having to compare FF as been Devil-like but if that's what I must do to get the point through the Thickness so be it.

However I feel FF have been hard done by,by both the media & the Opposition.

That is a good one. How can you say that FF have a plan for the future when they can even live in the present.

The IMF were in Dublin taking going thru our books and telling us what they were going to do while on national TV there was 2 idiots shaking there head at the thought of the IMF being here - 'Fiction'

Not to mention, the cowboy with the 'tash who swears on oath that he didn't say such and such, gets booted from cabinet and then with the 'New' FF end back on the front bench.

If you do feel FF are being hard done by - I think you are living in the same planet as Noel and Dermot.

I REALLY do hope FF get wiped out in this election. But, unforunately some people will believe that the FF party are getting hard done by/couldn't change their colours/however bad FF are the others are worse type of crap and will just vote for them again.

rugbyman

I have been around politics for 25 years.
There are many decent and hard working FF local politicians and ,though I know less of them, probably quite a number of similiar TD s. certainly my local FF minister is completely honest, very capable, but has come out with slithery remarks on occasions, as it suits his backswoodsmen.
His excellent career will be remembered by his last year though. Edit, Having re read that, the number of people he has put on Quangos,while overlooking unaligned professionals, makes it difficult to praise his good work.

But the general ethos i have seen evident ,is the complete party before anything attitude, stroking for their people.

The older people of our country who speak fondly of FF in the past, remember Lemass,and Lynch, from then on it was downhill. A person on here quoted his old uncle, who said the stroking was always there, I believe so also , but the TDs of a different breed emerged afterwards.

It is very difficult to ascertain what is the ethos or the core value of FF .
Those decent folk still in there can say/hope that a new core can build around M. Martin ( nice enough guy)
I heard Him quoted on the radio last night slashing FG ,Labour and SF. he obviously never heard of the idea of promoting one self/ones party while not mentioning the opponents.

I acknowledge some of the points made on here by pro FF posters, but groan at most of them. It takes all sorts to make a debate.

Brian Cowan is not the entire or even main cause of our problems, His predecessors and colleagues are perhaps more responsible.

I certainly dont mean this a a rant, more of a ramble, but one thing bugs me, of the hundreds of people I have met in recent times who are waiting to vote anti FF, is that an inordinate number of them are those who gained most from Berties largesse, teachers,guards,various State employees who lapped up ( why would they not) the pay increases over the last ten years.

Eaten bread etc.

Regards ,Rugbyman

P.s. I notice a new type of comment coming from the saddened ex fans of Ff. Not wanting to go the whole way and crititise their TDs, the new mantra is "sure they are all the same up there"

Denerick

Like everything in Ireland, the truth is always put under the carpet so as to absolve the people of guilt for originally voting in these whoors.

Ireland doesn't have corrupt politicians because we have an inherently bad political class. Ireland has corrupt politicians because our citizens are stupid and lack political understanding. If you continuously vote for a scumbag, don't be surprised if he turns out to be one.

Oh, forgot to mention, a pox on all your houses. All of you are partisan hacks and I'm almost certain your parties would have done pretty much the same, given the temptations of almost unfettered executive power.

Liam Byrne

Denerick wrote: »

Oh, forgot to mention, a pox on all your houses. All of you are partisan hacks and I'm almost certain your parties would have done pretty much the same, given the temptations of almost unfettered executive power.

Why do you assume that we have / are aligned with parties?

As for the "pox on all your houses comment - astounding that it's based on what other parties MIGHT have done.

FF voters voted them in; FF made their disasterous decisions, so if there's any pox being dished out we know where it should be aimed.

Denerick

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Why do you assume that we have / are aligned with parties?

LOL! FG is printed on your forehead.

As for the "pox on all your houses comment - astounding that it's based on what other parties MIGHT have done.

FF voters voted them in; FF made their disasterous decisions, so if there's any pox being dished out we know where it should be aimed.

I go by the 2007 election manistoes. Read them. Neither the media nor the political class is talking about them. FF raises the issue but that is by default a reason to ignore the problem, unfortunately.