Horrific treatment of prisoners.

Wolfe Tone

I was recently doing some reading on republican prisoners in the 1970s and 80s and the barbaric way in which they where treated. Beatings, torture, excessive and unnecessary invasive searches, intimidation, psychological torture, the works.
Naturally this research led me to try and find out about republican prisoners today.

I was shocked when I discovered how little things have changed.

Prisoners are still beaten. Prisoners are still searched in a horribly brutal manner, beaten and strip searched for literally no reason. Prisoners still suffer what is basically psychological torture. They are subjected to daily sectarian abuse by prison guards. Brutal beatings before court appearances, being denied visitors and being denied phone calls. Thats just scratching the surface.

I read some first hand accounts and letters from the prisoners and the treatment they receive is appalling. Here is a snippet of how people are treated in Maghaberry prison.

A favourite trick of the punishment screws is to leave a radio turned on loud outside your(solitary confinement/punishment) cell and tuned in between channels to create a white noise punishment.
You will be denied medication deliberately; you will be denied the right to sleep deliberately, you will be denied the right to wash.
In short they will try and break you, they will allow you to commit suicide because they know they will get away with it.
In 2007 they pushed INLA prisoner John Kenneway over the edge using the above mentioned tactics.

Their treatment is simply horrific, even when compared to that of your "ordinary" criminal, eg a thief etc.


Regardless of your opinions of their politics this is clearly a blatant violation of their human rights, regardless of whatever they are in jail for. And no one seems to know about it. The media doesn't report on it, SF have shamefully ignored it. I dont agree with their politics, but I can sure as hell see that the way they are treated is barbaric and should not be happening.


The reason they are being treated so badly and differently is because they are republicans. Prisoners in the 21st century should not be treated in such a manner.

EDIT: PUT LINKS IN
Northern Ireland Prison Service (NIPS) response to allegations from prisoners and families can be seen here(theres a link here to the original letter sent too)

This is relevant too:
http://friendsofcolinduffy.com/maghaberryregime.aspx


There are also numerous letters and posts from prisoners, former prisoners and their friends families on another site, one which I cannot link to unfortunately, however these links are enough to go on.

Overheal

Poltics, tbh. Not AH

Red Hand

So? They made their choice, they should deal with it.

Be thankful that they weren't hung, drawn and quartered and have their heads stuck on a spike such as treatment 700 years ago.

Wolfe Tone

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

So? They made their choice, they should deal with it.

Be thankful that they weren't hung, drawn and quartered and have their heads stuck on a spike such as treatment 700 years ago.

So prisoners should be singled out and treated horrifically because of their political views? Thats what this is.

amacachi

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

So? They made their choice, they should deal with it.

Be thankful that they weren't hung, drawn and quartered and have their heads stuck on a spike such as treatment 700 years ago.

Yeah, how dare my dad have bought a car off two guys who the cops suspected might have possibly been involved in something? He's lucky he only had 5 days locked up with beatings and not allowed contact anyone, the scumbag.


OP have you a link or report on any of this?

CreepingDeath

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

The reason they are being treated so badly and differently is because they are republicans. Prisoners in the 21st century should not be treated in such a manner.

Where is your proof of this ?
Have there been any official complaints ?

I would imagine that prison guards would be much more worried about retaliation outside the prison if they mistreated certain political prisoners inside.

So I call bullshit on this story.

Wolfe Tone

amacachi wrote: »

Yeah, how dare my dad have bought a car off two guys who the cops suspected might have possibly been involved in something? He's lucky he only had 5 days locked up with beatings and not allowed contact anyone, the scumbag.


OP have you a link or report on any of this?

Thats the thing, the media is not reporting on it, the details I have are from letters and comments from the prisoners themselves and their families/friends.

amacachi

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Thats the thing, the media is not reporting on it, the details I have are from letters and comments from the prisoners themselves and their families/friends.

Meh, with just their word I don't blame them for not reporting it. Besides there's a lot I'd rather see them reporting that has actually been documented and I'm sure it would be of interest to you even though it just scratched the surface.

Red Hand

amacachi wrote: »

Yeah, how dare my dad have bought a car off two guys who the cops suspected might have possibly been involved in something? He's lucky he only had 5 days locked up with beatings and not allowed contact anyone, the scumbag.


OP have you a link or report on any of this?

Was your Dad involved in conspiring to blow people up? No.

The INLA were. They made their choice.

OP, you are a sympathiser to their aims? What is your purpose here? To whom do you report? Your motives?

hondasam

way to serious for AH and it will end badly.

SEPT 23 1989

Are they getting beatings off the same people they try/plan to murder?

strange that

wonderfulname

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Thats the thing, the media is not reporting on it, the details I have are from letters and comments from the prisoners themselves and their families/friends.

Have you ever had an altercation with that certain kind of scum only found on our lonely island? They call foul wherever suits them. Hear-say is not proof.

Wolfe Tone

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

Was your Dad involved in conspiring to blow people up? No.

The INLA were. They made their choice.

OP, you are a sympathiser to their aims? What is your purpose here? To whom do you report? Your motives?

I dont report to anyone. I am my own man. I just thought it was shocking, I had assumed that republican prisoners today where treated the same as every other prisoner.

I am a republican, but I support the GFA.

amacachi

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

Was your Dad involved in conspiring to blow people up? No.

The INLA were. They made their choice.

OP, you are a sympathiser to their aims? What is your purpose here? To whom do you report? Your motives?

Do you really have faith in the UK justice system? If so then this discussion ain't going to go anywhere.

And no, he wasn't even a republican as such, just Catholic with not-a-great-name. :pac:

kincsem

The opening post is generalisations. Can any of it be documented?

smk89

There are no republican prisoners today.
The people you are referring to bomb civilian areas to try to get a united Ireland despite the fact that less than 40% of nationalists want one!
They stopped being republicans when we got a government, now they are just terrorists who don't even represent any minority.

chucken1

This makes for interesting reading..

http://friendsofcolinduffy.com/maghaberryregime.aspx

amacachi

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I dont report to anyone. I am my own man. I just thought it was shocking, I had assumed that republican prisoners today where treated the same as every other prisoner.

I am a republican, but I support the GFA.

Making another assumption there tbh. From what I've heard from various places a percentage of guards are always dicks and a percentage of prisoners will always be treated worse. Just because you're not in contact with the families of other prisoners doesn't mean it's not happening to them. You should also be familiar with the number of complaints about police brutality made generally. While police brutality isn't the same thing as prisoners getting the **** knocked out of them it happens more than is reported but will seem even more common than it is to those close to the victims of it.

Wolfe Tone

amacachi wrote: »

Do you really have faith in the UK justice system? If so then this discussion ain't going to go anywhere.

And no, he wasn't even a republican as such, just Catholic with not-a-great-name. :pac:

There is a sense that everything is normal in the north these days, the reason this is not being reported is to maintain that. SF are keeping quiet as they know that republican prisoners being treated in such a manner on their watch after everything they went through in the past will not be popular with their supporters.

Dont rock the boat.

The Waltzing Consumer

No links
No references
No sources
No quotes or reports from reputable charities and NGOs who in the past were vocal about prisons in Northern Ireland

OP, you are talking about a small group of scumbags who ignore 99.99999999999999999% of the people on this island and continue pretending to be political and have a worthy cause. F**k them and their lies

amacachi

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

There is a sense that everything is normal in the north these days, the reason this is not being reported is to maintain that. SF are keeping quiet as they know that republican prisoners being treated in such a manner on their watch after everything they went through in the past will not be popular with their supporters.

Dont rock the boat.

Not just their supporters but everyone. You've said elsewhere that dialogue should be started with the RIRA etc. but I would love to know what possible outcome would be satisfactory in that situation, never mind the legitimising effect it would have if made public.

wonderfulname

chucken1 wrote: »

This makes for interesting reading..

http://friendsofcolinduffy.com/maghaberryregime.aspx

I'm finding it hard to locate the report mentioned in the above link, you wouldn't know what report that was would you? I'm not the greatest fan of biased second hand information...

Red Hand

amacachi wrote: »

Do you really have faith in the UK justice system? If so then this discussion ain't going to go anywhere.

And no, he wasn't even a republican as such, just Catholic with not-a-great-name. :pac:

Well, I'm in a bad mood at the moment so that is affecting my posting. But, think of the millions of euros that are pumped into keeping prisoners maintained. Only to have the f*ckers riot every so often so that even more money is spent on them.

http://ireland.world-countries.net/archives/63326

(That was in Mountjoy, but even still, these fellows have it easy).

If you kill someone, maybe the punishment should be an ordeal.

Anyway, I'm way off topic.

MagicSean

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I was recently doing some reading on republican prisoners in the 1970s and 80s and the barbaric way in which they where treated. Beatings, torture, excessive and unnecessary invasive searches, intimidation, psychological torture, the works.
Naturally this research led me to try and find out about republican prisoners today.

I was shocked when I discovered how little things have changed.

Prisoners are still beaten. Prisoners are still searched in a horribly brutal manner, beaten and strip searched for literally no reason. Prisoners still suffer what is basically psychological torture. They are subjected to daily sectarian abuse by prison guards. Brutal beatings before court appearances, being denied visitors and being denied phone calls. Thats just scratching the surface.

I read some first hand accounts and letters from the prisoners and the treatment they receive is appalling. Here is a snippet of how people are treated in Maghaberry prison.


Their treatment is simply horrific, even when compared to that of your "ordinary" criminal, eg a thief etc.


Regardless of your opinions of their politics this is clearly a blatant violation of their human rights, regardless of whatever they are in jail for. And no one seems to know about it. The media doesn't report on it, SF have shamefully ignored it. I dont agree with their politics, but I can sure as hell see that the way they are treated is barbaric and should not be happening.


The reason they are being treated so badly and differently is because they are republicans. Prisoners in the 21st century should not be treated in such a manner.

There in prison for a reason. I find it hard to have sympathy. They chose their path.

jackiebaron

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

Was your Dad involved in conspiring to blow people up? No.

The INLA were. They made their choice.

OP, you are a sympathiser to their aims? What is your purpose here? To whom do you report? Your motives?

Essentially what you're saying then is that punishment for a crime should not be limited to imprisonment? That additional punishment such as torture and violence against the convicted is also part of the bargain but just not actually documented or made known to the convict, i.e. that he's going to prison for a specific period made known to him but that also during that period the State has the right to randomly beat him and torture at a time of the State's choosing?
Is that what you're endorsing?

Do you take this stance with all prisoners?
Should a petty thief be beaten at will by prisoner guards just because they want to do it and do you think that such punishment should be encoded in the judicial system?
In essence do you feel that torture should be mandated and sanctioned by a judge and the State as part of someone's penal servitude?

Wolfe Tone

chucken1 wrote: »

This makes for interesting reading..

http://friendsofcolinduffy.com/maghaberryregime.aspx

Thats brilliant thanks.

Dionysus

amacachi wrote: »

Yeah, how dare my dad have bought a car off two guys who the cops suspected might have possibly been involved in something? He's lucky he only had 5 days locked up with beatings and not allowed contact anyone, the scumbag.


OP have you a link or report on any of this?

Graham Finlay was on with Moncrieff this very afternoon and he was talking about the Five Techniques, the torture techniques used on republican internees following Operation Demetrios/Demetrius (Internment) in August 1971. The European Commission on Human Rights ultimately adjudged that the British state had implemented a policy of 'torture' against the sample cases; the ECHR adjudged that the British state had implemented a policy of 'cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment'.

Jeremy Waldron's The Law has an informative piece about this case: Ireland v. UK regarding the 'Five Techniques' used during Internment, 1971 - 1972 (pp. 88 -93)

wonderfulname

Dionysus wrote: »

Graham Finlay was on with Moncrieff this very afternoon and he was talking about the Five Techniques, the torture techniques used on republican internees following Operation Demetrios/Demetrius (Internment) in August 1971. The European Commission on Human Rights ultimately adjudged that the British state had implemented a policy of 'torture' against the sample cases; the ECHR adjudged that the British state had implemented a policy of 'cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment'.

Jeremy Waldron's The Law has an informative piece about this case: Ireland v. UK regarding the 'Five Techniques' used during Internment, 1971 - 1972 (pp. 88 -93)

We all have at least a vague concept of history, how about the references to back up claims that all this is happening on this island, to this day?

Dionysus

The Seán Moncrieff discussion this afternoon on the ECHR judgement can be found here (Part 3, starts 24.05). On this day in 1978 the ECHR judgement was made.

Einhard

amacachi wrote: »

And no, he wasn't even a republican as such, just Catholic with not-a-great-name. :pac:

You're not Tadhg O'Semtex's son are you?!

:pac:

Dionysus

wonderfulname wrote: »

We all have at least a vague concept of history, how about the references to back up claims that all this is happening on this island, to this day?

How about if you want them, you get them yourself. Alternatively, whoever is making them, can support them. My reference was supporting:

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I was recently doing some reading on republican prisoners in the 1970s and 80s and the barbaric way in which they where treated. Beatings, torture, excessive and unnecessary invasive searches, intimidation, psychological torture, the works.

Wolfe Tone

Dionysus wrote: »

How about if you want them, you get them yourself. Alternatively, whoever is making them, can support them.

I stuck some links in my post there.

phasers

Not only that OP, but they're also frequently subjected to a salad tossing

Einhard

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Thats the thing, the media is not reporting on it, the details I have are from letters and comments from the prisoners themselves and their families/friends.

Much as I despise dissident Republicans, and indeed anyone who decides that that they have the right to murder and maim innocents in the name of personal ideology, mistreatment and abuse of any prisoner should not be condoned. However, the very people who are complaining of alleged abuse in prison, are those who would happily plant bombs and plan murders in direct contravention of the will of the people of this island, so you'll have to forgive me if I don't give their complaints much credence.

Wolfe Tone

Einhard wrote: »

Much as I despise dissident Republicans, and indeed anyone who decides that that they have the right to murder and maim innocents in the name of personal ideology, mistreatment and abuse of any prisoner should not be condoned. However, the very people who are complaining of alleged abuse in prison, are those who would happily plant bombs and plan murders in direct contravention of the will of the people of this island, so you'll have to forgive me if I don't give their complaints much credence.

There are murderers in the prison who arent republican and they are not treated as bad. You could apply your logic to any prisoner tbh to palm off mistreatment allegations.

Einhard

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

There are murderers in the prison who arent republican and they are not treated as bad. You could apply your logic to any prisoner tbh to palm off mistreatment allegations.

But we don't actually know that they're treated badly. That's my point. All we have is word of would be murderers and bombers. Were we to automatically take every single, unsubstantiated claim of abuse by a prisoner at face value, the whole system would collapse. Also, as another poster has pointed out, none of the NGOs who would normally make some noise about such treatment has alleged anything of the sort. So the already dubious claims further lose credibility. The claims should be taken seriously, but until it is proven otherwise, they are allegations and nothing more. And given the character of those making the allegations, I prefer to err on the side of caution before jumping in with judgements. How is it that when claims are made about, say, Gerry Adams being a member of the IRA, Republicans shriek about there being no conclusive evidence, yet unproven allegations made by fellow Republicans are treated as the gospel? Seems a double standard to be honest.

dxhound2005

How did this thread get unlocked?

Wolfe Tone

Einhard wrote: »

But we don't actually know that they're treated badly. That's my point. All we have is word of would be murderers and bombers. Were we to automatically take every single, unsubstantiated claim of abuse by a prisoner at face value, the whole system would collapse. Also, as another poster has pointed out, none of the NGOs who would normally make some noise about such treatment has allaged anything of the sort. So the already dubious claims further lose credibility. The claims should be taken seriously, but until it is proven otherwise, they are allegations and nothing more. And given the character of those making the allegations, I prefer to err on the side of caution before jumping in with judgements. How is it that when claims are made about the, say, Gerry Adams being a member of the IRA, Republicans shriek about there being no conclusive evidence, yet unproven allegations made by fellow Republicans are treated as the gospel? Seems a double standard to be honest.

Have you read the links I posted? There are details of a report in one which gives weight to the claims.


Why would they lie? There are dozens of first hand accounts of abuse.

martic

dxhound2005 wrote: »

How did this thread get unlocked?

Think it was re-opened under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement

Buceph

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Have you read the links I posted? There are details of a report in one which gives weight to the claims.


Why would they lie? There are dozens of first hand accounts of abuse.

There was criticism of one aspect that could even be partially seen as any form of "torture." The site you linked to doesn't even link to the report. They cherry picked their words and statements very carefully. And most of all I would have thought if there's any truth to their claims, an NGO along the lines of Amnesty International would be all over a Western World superpower abusing prisoners. There's no credibility given to any claim of torture from an independent, respected authority.

And the idea that these scumbags should be taken at their word? You're having a laugh.

Wolfe Tone

dxhound2005 wrote: »

How did this thread get unlocked?

I fired off a PM and provided some links.

Mac daddy

Poor prisoners :rolleyes: couldn't care less what happens to them.

Wolfe Tone

Mac daddy wrote: »

Poor prisoners :rolleyes: couldn't care less what happens to them.

Why not? Prisoners should not be treated in such a way.

SEPT 23 1989

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Why not? Prisoners should not be treated in such a way.

Right or wrong they are big boys fighting a war yes

so when the enemy gets nasty,as they do in conflict situations

they cry foul??????

imme

Overheal wrote: »

Poltics, tbh. Not AH

History & Heritage I'd guess would be even more appropriate.

Coriolanus

He who lives by the bomb, gets the **** kicked out of him by a prisonguards baton.

Wolfe Tone

imme wrote: »

History & Heritage I'd guess would be even more appropriate.

How when it is currently happening?

previous user

INLA? who the fcuk are they?

stovelid

Despise terrorists of all hues (and I never agreed with them having any type of political status in prison) but obviously I vehemently oppose the torture or deliberate mistreatment of same: then and now.

RMD

When the Republicans grant the basic right of allowing people to live in safety then I might support the idea of giving them human rights. I would like to see this happen to both Republicans and Loyalists, break all the fúckers completely.

InTheTrees

I give money to Amnesty International.

Thats an organisation I respect and trust. Whats their take on the issue?