My observation..atleast 1 in 10 cars untaxed

Atlantic Dawn

On my way to and from work the last couple of days I have started to take a look at tax discs on cars and noticed atleast 1 in 10 are expired, some by 6 months or more. Seems to be a lot of people taking the risk of having them impounded.

zapata

I think they have to be over 2 months out of tax before being impounded.

unkel

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

On my way to and from work the last couple of days I have started to take a look at tax discs on cars and noticed atleast 1 in 10 are expired

1 in 10? From my own observations about a quarter of the cars in the Dublin area are out of tax. And more than half of the cars outside of Dublin. Gardai, do your jobs and raise revenue!!!

enfant terrible

Would it not be possible to have an arrangement with the toll operators to use their cameras to fine people with no tax?

Suppose it would just stop people with no tax using the tolls:)

rcdk1

You would think it would be easy to catch people who have untaxed cars?

Look up the tax database and issue fines to those who's tax is out of date (by 2 months or whatever). If they can prove the car was off the road, then the fine is rescinded. If they ignore the fine, impound the car and bring them to court.

It seems too simple..... am I missing something?

Squall19

rcdk1 wrote: »

You would think it would be easy to catch people who have untaxed cars?

Look up the tax database and issue fines to those who's tax is out of date (by 2 months or whatever). If they can prove the car was off the road, then the fine is rescinded. If they ignore the fine, impound the car and bring them to court.

It seems too simple..... am I missing something?

Leave ous alone for **** sake!!!

NoQuarter

rcdk1 wrote: »

You would think it would be easy to catch people who have untaxed cars?

Look up the tax database and issue fines to those who's tax is out of date (by 2 months or whatever). If they can prove the car was off the road, then the fine is rescinded. If they ignore the fine, impound the car and bring them to court.

It seems too simple..... am I missing something?

Guilty till proven innocent eh? How have we never thought of that one before!!! :rolleyes:

MarkoC

What happens if noone will pay anymore tax
First 1000 cars will be imponded and then ?

tommyhaas

rcdk1 wrote: »

You would think it would be easy to catch people who have untaxed cars?

Look up the tax database and issue fines to those who's tax is out of date (by 2 months or whatever). If they can prove the car was off the road, then the fine is rescinded. If they ignore the fine, impound the car and bring them to court.

It seems too simple..... am I missing something?

I work away for 3 mths at a time, and hence dont tax the car while Im away and its off the road. So going by your suggestion, I'l have a summons waiting for me at the end of each trip. Why the fcuk should I have to go to court and explain myself twice a year for doing nothing illegal

This is typical of what is wrong with this country, the law is not the problem, the problem is the enforcement. Why not set a minimum fine of €1000 for anyone caught with tax out by over 1 month and enforce it? The check points wouldnt belong paying for themselves

MarkoC wrote: »

First 1000 cars will be imponded and then ?

Crushed/sold I would imagine

MarkoC

tommyhaas wrote: »

Crushed/sold I would imagine

I meant what if NOONE will pay ano more tax, what happens then

rcdk1

Department of Motor Tax,
Collection Section,
Government Buildings.
18th January 2011

Mr. Squall19,
No fixed abode,

Dear Mr. Squall,
it has come to our attention that you have not paid tax on you car, a purple Lada Niva, Registration No. 86-D-11134123. We are issuing you with a fixed penalty fine of €1,000,000. If you do not pay the fine by the 21st January 2011, your car will be impounded and you will be sent to jail to share a cell with Bubba "the @rse bandit" Brown.

Have a nice day,
rcdk1
Collector General

rcdk1

tommyhaas wrote: »

This is typical of what is wrong with this country, the law is not the problem, the problem is the enforcement. Why not set a minimum fine of €1000 for anyone caught with tax out by over 1 month and enforce it? The check points wouldnt belong paying for themselves

I never mentioned changing the law..... my suggestion was for an enforcement measure.

rcdk1

MarkoC wrote: »

What happens if noone will pay anymore tax
First 1000 cars will be imponded and then ?

tommyhaas wrote: »

Crushed/sold I would imagine

'You have thirty minutes to move your car.' 'You have ten minutes to move your car.' 'Your car has been impounded.' 'Your car has been crushed into a cube.' 'You have thirty minutes to move your cube.'"

Stheno

Ah now come on the Revenue wouldn't use such language, instead you would get:

Department of Motor Tax,
Collection Section,
Government Buildings.
18th January 2011
Mr. Squall19,
No fixed abode,

Dear Mr. Squall,
it has come to our attention that you have not paid tax on you car, a purple Lada Niva, Registration No. 86-D-11134123. We are issuing you with a fixed penalty fine of €1,000,000. If you do not pay the fine by the 21st January 2011, our Enforcer Bubba (aka the Brown Monster) will visit you with the appropriate methods to cause you to pay up

Have a nice day,
Bubba
pps Collector General

Edit on a serious note, have you ever gone to Ballymun to tax your car? The bf is a luddite and will not tax his car online, last time he went in there were 294 people ahead of him in the queue!

I'd rather shoot myself (or just pay online )

rcdk1

NoQuarter wrote: »

Guilty till proven innocent eh? How have we never thought of that one before!!! :rolleyes:

I find the combination of your username and quote amusing......

tommyhaas

MarkoC wrote: »

I meant what if NOONE will pay ano more tax, what happens then

Yea I knew what you were getting at alright, was just trying to be smart

rcdk1

tommyhaas wrote: »

I work away for 3 mths at a time, and hence dont tax the car while Im away and its off the road. So going by your suggestion, I'l have a summons waiting for me at the end of each trip. Why the fcuk should I have to go to court and explain myself twice a year for doing nothing illegal

Do you not have to go to the Gardai and declare your car is off the road each time?

tommyhaas

Stheno wrote: »

Ah now come on the Revenue wouldn't use such language, instead you would get:



Edit on a serious note, have you ever gone to Ballymun to tax your car? The bf is a luddite and will not tax his car online, last time he went in there were 294 people ahead of him in the queue!

I'd rather shoot myself (or just pay online )

Post?

I assume you went near the end of the month, always very busy then

Stheno

tommyhaas wrote: »

Post?

I assume you went near the end of the month, always very busy then

5th Jan just after they reopened after Xmas, but have been down there four times, min. queue regardless is 100 people. They were closed over Xmas.

That said they are very efficient, but I prefer to do the online thing

tommyhaas

rcdk1 wrote: »

Do you not have to go to the Gardai and declare your car is off the road each time?

Yea, but thats so when Im home I can tax the car again for the next 3 mths,without paying the previous 3mths back tax

Its my choice to retax the car, and hence I have to get the declaration signed in order to do so. With the alternative method, I would receive a summons for driving w/o tax, despite the fact I wasent driving and have to go to court to explain myself.

I agree that they need to clamp down on this, but you cant just go summonsing people with out any evidence whatsoever

furtzy

Been having a look at the cars in the local car parks anytime I'm down out of interest. At least half have no tax. Some are out for well over a year. Can't believe they are getting away with it. The level of cars with no NCT or expired ones is even worse....typical Irish non enforcement. And they wonder why the countrys broke

greenermetals

The simple solution is the SORN system in the north, the only difference being you notify the authorities that the car is off the road in advance. You tick a box on your tax renewal reminder, when you want to go back on the rd you simply just pay your tax. If you are caught on the rd after you send in a SORN statement you get a £1000 fine. The police up there have motor tax checkpoints that sit on the side of the rd. I was in Armagh one day on business and every rd in and out of the town had a checkpoint on it. These automatically read your licence plate and cross reference them with the database, fine in the post if necessary.

Its a no brainer, the only ones scared of this system are the ones that are abusing the current system.

In reference to the car databases of shannon, in 2008 only 11% of scrapped cars were deregistered with the Dept of Transport in the correct manner. Thats only for one year. In that one year that left 110,000 cars unaccounted for. Shannon have no idea whats on and off the rd, but there are measures afoot to change all this, and i think its a good job, its time taxpayers stopped footing the bill for the dodgers.

Henry Ford III

c.15% of vehicles are reckoned to uninsured too.

Doom

rcdk1 wrote: »

You would think it would be easy to catch people who have untaxed cars?

Look up the tax database and issue fines to those who's tax is out of date (by 2 months or whatever). If they can prove the car was off the road, then the fine is rescinded. If they ignore the fine, impound the car and bring them to court.

It seems too simple..... am I missing something?

Ya, people have no money, pay car tax or eat...no brainer

rcdk1

rcdk1 wrote: »

Do you not have to go to the Gardai and declare your car is off the road each time?

greenermetals wrote: »

The simple solution is the SORN system in the north, the only difference being you notify the authorities that the car is off the road in advance.
.......
Its a no brainer, the only ones scared of this system are the ones that are abusing the current system.

So you're saying that at the moment people here don't have to declare in advance?

rcdk1

Doom wrote: »

Ya, people have no money, pay car tax or eat...no brainer

If can't afford to run a car, you declare it off the road or sell it.

danbohan

unkel wrote: »

1 in 10? From my own observations about a quarter of the cars in the Dublin area are out of tax. And more than half of the cars outside of Dublin. Gardai, do your jobs and raise revenue!!!

Gardai, do your jobs and tax your cars !!!!![

wellsir

missus car out of tax since Nov 1st...met a checkpoint yesterday smiled @ Garda and was waved through!!

Esel

wellsir wrote: »

missus car out of tax since Nov 1st...met a checkpoint yesterday smiled @ Garda and was waved through!!

The purpose of that checkpoint wasn't to catch untaxed cars, then....

Pkiernan

wellsir wrote: »

missus car out of tax since Nov 1st...met a checkpoint yesterday smiled @ Garda and was waved through!!

That copper should be sacked.

Wonder if she would be happy to have not been paid since November 1st.

Gumbo

rcdk1 wrote: »

So you're saying that at the moment people here don't have to declare in advance?

correct. you declare it off the road after the fact.

seamus

rcdk1 wrote: »

So you're saying that at the moment people here don't have to declare in advance?

Correct. In the UK, they changed their law so that you have to declare the car off-the-road in advance and you will be automatically fined if you fail to pay your motor tax.

In this country it is not illegal to not renew your motor tax, it is only illegal to use a vehicle on a public road without motor tax. So in order to issue fines to untaxed motorists, you have to prove that they were driving it on a public road.

They've been putting ANPR into the Garda vehicles, but personally I think they should be putting it into every single gantry and speed camera on the road so that automatic fines and summonses can be issued for no tax and no insurance. Slowing down to not get caught by a speed camera is one thing, but there would be no way to avoid getting done for no tax.

Ghost Estate

I dont understand how people can get so worked up about this

I say good luck to them, wouldnt risk it myself but each to their own.

Not like the rest of us will have lower tax if these people paid it, the government would spend it on themselves, the EU, anyone but us anyway.

Even if they did spend it on maintaining the roads - they have no clue how to do it. If they did it properly half of the cars could be driving around with no tax they'd still have money to spare.

not to mind the other issues that car tax, fuel, and everything else in this country despite being in the middle of a depression is still far overpriced and getting worse.

the best thing you can do with a car in this country is drive it to the nearest ferry and say 'feck the lot of ye' when she sails off

Pkiernan

I find this argument unacceptable.

Case in point - I know of a business with a fleet of 2 vans and a HGV. None of the vehicles are taxed or insured.

This wnaker is choosing not to pay, and has therefore considerably lower overheads than a legitimate trader.

I agree that motor tax is too high, but this guy should pay up or go back to eastern Europe and run his business there.

Ghost Estate

Pkiernan wrote: »

I find this argument unacceptable.

Case in point - I know of a business with a fleet of 2 vans and a HGV. None of the vehicles are taxed or insured.

This wnaker is choosing not to pay, and has therefore considerably lower overheads than a legitimate trader.

I agree that motor tax is too high, but this guy should pay up or go back to eastern Europe and run his business there.

he is probably doing us a favour by staying here. if the likes of him went back we'd only be left with the irish traders who are still living in the celtic tiger days and think they should be paid over the odds.

even if the irish traders reduced their prices the government would be sure to pick up the slack by introducing new 'for nothing in return' taxes such as property tax.

the irish government has been screwing all of us long enough and its a shame we have to rely on outsiders such as the lad from eastern europe to screw them back, cause none of us have the courage to do it ourselves

seamus

Ghost Estate wrote: »

he is probably doing us a favour by staying here.

If he's not paying tax or insurance on his vans, then what other road traffic law is he breaking? If someone doesn't care enough to insure their vehicle, then they're more likely to drive dangerously and end up in an accident...and who pays for that?

He's probably also avoiding income tax as much as he can and working without any relevant licences, insurance or permits. He may also be operating on credit and using mobile phones and changing his number & business name every few months to avoid customers & creditors. And who pays? Oh look, it's us again.

All the while he's pitching prices which legitimate operators cannot compete with and thereby sucking business away from people who provide direct & indirect employment, and who also pay their taxes.

"The gubberment" aren't some secret society draining our taxes and ruling is like kings. Every dirtbag who avoids their tax and insurance is taking money out of everyone else's pockets because the shortfalls have to be made up from where...oh yeah, it's us.

Non-taxpayers aren't "socking it to the man", they're screwing their neighbours up the arsehole and the sooner the Irish realise that and show contempt for tax cheats, the sooner we'll get out of this mess.

Bendihorse

The road I have to drive to work every day is THAT bad, I am actually looking at getting a **** box jeep just to drive the 30mins over and 30mins back every day. It was always bad, never repaired after the freeze in Jan 2010 and got twenty times worse (If thats possible) after this one.

I can tell you one thing, I haven't a NOTION of taxing it if I get it. They can stop me and impound it all they like. The sole reason for me getting it, would be the state of the road.

corktina

some very naive posts on hre recently!

kearney13

I live in a small town and i say 1 in 3 cars don't have tax at all. The worst i seen is a caddy with tax 3 and a half years out of tax. The government is loosing out on alot of money over this but the excuse for everyone is ''I never see what my road tax money goes toward all the roads are full of potholes''

Ghost Estate

seamus wrote: »

If he's not paying tax or insurance on his vans, then what other road traffic law is he breaking? If someone doesn't care enough to insure their vehicle, then they're more likely to drive dangerously and end up in an accident...and who pays for that?

He's probably also avoiding income tax as much as he can and working without any relevant licences, insurance or permits. He may also be operating on credit and using mobile phones and changing his number & business name every few months to avoid customers & creditors. And who pays? Oh look, it's us again.

maybe he just doesn't like being ripped off by the government. he could very well indicate at roundabouts and only use the fog lights when its genuinely foggy.

it could well be that with all the extra expense his business wouldn't be worth running

All the while he's pitching prices which legitimate operators cannot compete with and thereby sucking business away from people who provide direct & indirect employment, and who also pay their taxes.

"The gubberment" aren't some secret society draining our taxes and ruling is like kings. Every dirtbag who avoids their tax and insurance is taking money out of everyone else's pockets because the shortfalls have to be made up from where...oh yeah, it's us.

Non-taxpayers aren't "socking it to the man", they're screwing their neighbours up the arsehole and the sooner the Irish realise that and show contempt for tax cheats, the sooner we'll get out of this mess.

now in fairness the irish government aren't known for their efficiency nor are they known for giving up luxuries such as their government jet chauffeur driven cars to help the rest of us save money. so a secret society ruling like kings isn't too far off the mark. remember the 'golden circle' by any chance?

even if they were the banks and property developers all this tax is being used to bail out are hardly the most deserving recipients. i'd rather see it going to the lads who make some half hearted to fix our potholes - one scoop of cold tar and gravel in today gone tomorrow.

remember any money you're not spending on tax, or getting off the dole is money that isn't being used to bail out some snobby upmarket Dublin prick in a new McMansion and 100k+ self shifter SUV outside the door

BrianD3

Naively, I didn't think the number of untaxed cars would be that high. But after having a look around today approx 20% of cars had expired tax, many by several months.

I'd be in favour of a SORN and expanded ANPR system. Before that happens there needs to be a tightening up of number plate regulations with breaches being treated as serious offences. Too many chancers out there with unreadable plates.

I have to laugh at hypocritical idiots who drive "good" cars with larger engines (eg 530d) don't tax them and then look down at other with their "crappy little small cars".

Also to those who applaud motor tax evaders - I wonder would you also applaud public servants who drive cars with expired tax while getting paid generous mileage rates for work-related driving.

Builderfromhell

Very well put Ghost Estate.

I had to borrow a mates truck over the Christmas and was pulled over by Gardai twice in a matter of days. One told me he saw my tax disk and did a U turn and then put on his blue lights so I pulled over.
The other Garda thought it was suspicious that I was driving a truck late at night and was able to check tax info. via computer from registration. he also turned on flashing lights and I pulled over.

I was also pulled by the Gardai in my own jeep for tax being out of date.

Based on my experience I do not see how people can get away with being untaxed for over 3 months. They do impound vehicles I'm told.

toshy321

kearney13 wrote: »

I live in a small town and i say 1 in 3 cars don't have tax at all. The worst i seen is a caddy with tax 3 and a half years out of tax. The government is loosing out on alot of money over this but the excuse for everyone is ''I never see what my road tax money goes toward all the roads are full of potholes''

Have too agree with this wouldn't go without road tax myself but can see why some people don't pay up the roads are in bits. I used too have a nice set of 18 inch alloys its imposible to keep them for example just threw back on the regular 16 inch wheels after gettin two buckled alloys in the space of two weeks:mad::mad:. I know a few people who wont tax there cars and this seems to be one of there main reasons as they reckon that not enough of there money is being pumped back into maintaining roads.

Ghost Estate

BrianD3 wrote: »

I'd be in favour of a SORN and expanded ANPR system.

This place is already not worth living in without adding extra big brother / privacy invasions / police state measures.

Also to those who applaud motor tax evaders - I wonder would you also applaud public servants who drive cars with expired tax while getting paid generous mileage rates for work-related driving.

i cant blame them, and i suppose they do pay for overpriced fuel like the rest of us. the problem is the person deciding to give the generous mileage rates. public sector waste is a huge problem but its not so much down to the wasters as it is to the high ranking public servants who allow so much money to be wasted

Atlantic Dawn

According to the MOT's website there were 2,467,660 taxed vehicles in the country in 2009, if say 10% of these were untaxed at an average rate of say €300 a year this would be €74,029,800 a year, this would pay for the €65 millon speed camera contract and have enough cash left over to build a few roads for Jackie Healy Rae.

http://www.transport.ie/roads/motortax/index.asp?lang=ENG&loc=2468

RandomAccess

wellsir wrote: »

missus car out of tax since Nov 1st...met a checkpoint yesterday smiled @ Garda and was waved through!!

So thats what she told you yeah?
I remember it a little different,

Your tax is out there love,
Zippp....
Blow into this.. and you can be on your way.
:cool:

daRobot

wow, threads like this really bring out the righteous nature of the board.

I don't particularly want to get dragged into a pedantic battle on this one, as it has the potential to do so, but all I will say is this:

Fair f*cks to them.

Why? It's a grossly unfair system, that is anti-car, and in fact, anti-poor.

Those with a large amount of cash to drop on a new car are rewarded with a nice low co2 tax rate, while the less well off are subsiding them with the cc figures.

It's not right that perfectly good cars with 2.5+ engines are being sent to the scrapper as they are more to tax then the car is worth. It's incredibly harsh in a country that you really do need a car to get around due to pathetic public transport.

It's a terrible system that really needs looking at. The UK SORN system would be ideal, if and only if our rates were even close to being as reasonable as theirs. As it stands, they're not.

Stheno

daRobot wrote: »

It's not right that perfectly good cars with 2.5+ engines are being sent to the scrapper as they are more to tax then the car is worth. It's incredibly harsh in a country that you really do need a car to get around due to pathetic public transport.

Whilst I agree one needs a car to get around in this country I'm not aware of any reason why one would need a 2.5+ car to do so ? My car costs me €600 a year to insure and it's eleven years old, and will hopefully pass it's next NCT, it's probably worth about €1000 but over the next two years, if it passes it's NCT I'll pay more than that in tax.

Suits me fine, I like the car, enjoy driving it, don't want a brand new car etc etc.

Conor_M1990

Why should you pay it its dead money its too expensive the roads are in ****e its a system that penalises the poor its expensive under the old cc system and not everyone can afford new diesals

n900guy

Ghost Estate wrote: »

the best thing you can do with a car in this country is drive it to the nearest ferry and say 'feck the lot of ye' when she sails off

That is exactly what I did 6 months ago! £205/year motor tax for my 5.5l V8

Owen

Stheno wrote: »

Whilst I agree one needs a car to get around in this country I'm not aware of any reason why one would need a 2.5+ car to do so ?

Not everyone can make do with a small engine. This country rewards those fortunate enough to be able to afford a new car with low tax - even if they do higher mileage. Which is so wrong, it's disgusting.