9.e KA IS REALLY TO ROCK AND ROLL

lgs 4

9.e is really

watty

Old news posted on 14-01-2011, 08:58
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70063611&postcount=1030

GY A1

will we be able to get it on present shy dish, with multi lnb or seperate dish

watty

GY A1 wrote: »

will we be able to get it on present shy dish, with multi lnb or seperate dish

No to sky Dish

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70101834&postcount=1042
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70111151&postcount=1046
http://www.saortv.info/satellite-saorsat/
http://www.saortv.info/satellite-saorsat/saorsat-reception/

Andy454

OH Well done RTe! When every service provider in europe is using ku band RTE opt for Ka! Hats off to them!

Yes take your humax hd1 box, your freesat hd box and your other channels menu in your sky hd box and put them in the bin because you will need a whole new satellite system just to recieve rte 1&2 via satellite!!!

ku - band LNB - 12 to 18 GHz

Ka - band LNB - 26.5 to 40 GHz

is it even possible to get a Ka band lnb this side of the atlantic?

I hope and pray that they go for linear polarisation on the ka band rather than circular polarisation in the ka band because that would make them incompatible with even U.S. Directv low noise block downconverters!!

Wait and see the perplexed faces on all those muppet satellite installers when they try and use a ku universal lnb with this service!!

Apogee

1. Can you explain how RTÉ could go FTA on the Ku band and avoid programme copyright issues?
2. Your frequencies are wrong.
3. Regardless of the polarisation employed, the US DirecTV LNBFs are highly proprietary in terms of design and are not particularly suitable for European satellite equipment.
4. Humax boxes and the Freesat HD boxes (in non-freesat mode) will operate with a Ka-band LNBF. SkyHD boxes are not suitable for anything other than Sky services.

Andy454

I would have thought the easiest way to protect content and maintain compatibility would be to examine contract with sky and organise a similar service to freesat from sky in the uk whereby irish sky card opens rte1,2 tv3 and tg4 regardless of whether subscribtion is active or not!

RTE could even go the way of itv and offer hd services to hd pack subscribers and get a piece of the hd pack subscribtion charge!

According to wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ka_band

Ka band is from 26.5Ghz to 40Ghz - incompatible with universal ku band lnb - unless the l.o. freq can be altered at both lnb and reciever! (manhattan box was great cause u could specify specific lnb parameters with specific satellites and lnbs! not likely on your bog standard modern day unit!

US directv uses Ka band lnb which uses circular polarisation (no special requisities for directv!) LNBF stands for low noise block downconverter with integrated feedhorn - most universal lnbs have an integrated feedhorn so it is more popular to drop the "F"

skyhd boxes (although not ideal) can be used to pick up FTA services from other satellites using other channels function - I used it to recieve euro hd1, via eutelsat a few years back and other fta services -

Apogee

I have no disagreement with you regarding an Irish FTV type service (although it does lock the end user to Sky equipment for the most part), but that is not FTA. Personally, I believe that Sky should provide such a service free-of-charge as quid pro quo for getting the Irish channels for free.

Wikipedia is wrong. Ka-band transmissions in Europe and the US for television/internet are in the 19.7-20.2 GHz and 18.3 - 18.8 GHz ranges.

Any bog standard FTA receiver allows you to set a custom LO. In any case, even if it doesn't, you can do a simple bit of maths and use Ku band freqs in the receiver and figure out what the corresponding IF freqs are.

Andy454 wrote:

skyhd boxes (although not ideal) can be used to pick up FTA services from other satellites using other channels function - I used it to recieve euro hd1, via eutelsat a few years back and other fta services -

The DirecTV LNBFs have been discussed in depth on this board previously. They use non-standard switching methods, have non-standard output ranges (including in the B-band!!) and have non-standard feedhorn design. They are not suitable.

Not ideal? More like a pain in the arse. With the current firmware, you need to boot up the box on 28E and then switch over manually to the other feed. In any case, if you're that hard up, you could do the same with a Ka-band feed if you work out the IF frequencies first and assuming the Symbol rates are compatible.

watty

Ka-Sat is cheap because it's built for Internet. Like Wildblue in USA it uses a Linear LNB. An LNB, part of a ODU, not an LNBF. Viasat-1 for USA will also use same Linear LNB.

Betamax is wrong.
Better analogy
Ku is like DVD
DirecTV ka is like defunct HD-DVD
Ka-Sat, WildBlue, Hylas1, ThaiSat, ViaSat on Ka Band is Like BluRay.

The Wikipedia Microwave Band names are Traditional Band Names. They are not the DTH Satellite TV names
K band was the original
Ka means above K Band
Ku means under K Band

The uplink frequencies are a few GHz higher than the Downlink frequencies and are closer to the traditional names of the Bands.

The whole RTE FTV card thing has been discussed for over 10 years here. It's not financially feasible. Even less so with HD.
Some recent arguements http://www.techtir.ie/blog/loguey/is-saorsat-innovation-or-blocking and http://www.techtir.ie/blog/watty/irish-paytv-like-leprechaun-gold

Plenty similar posts and threads here.

Also the UK use addtional satellites not at 28E to backup feed DTT sites. These feeds use Professional Encryption because the beam is too broad.

RTE NL is going to Ka-Sat to back up feed all the DTT Sites. Because of the nature of Ka-Sat, no encryption is needed. (attempt at explination why http://www.techtir.ie/saortv/saorsat-coverage ) This means that essentially RTE does backup feeds DTT sites at fraction of cost in UK and for no extra cost the 2% to 7% that can't get DTT can use the Ka-Sat feed, no expensive cards/encryption to manage. No 3rd party platform Operator, just lease space direct from Eutelsat.

watty

Apogee wrote: »

Not ideal? More like a pain in the arse. With the current firmware, you need to boot up the box on 28E and then switch over manually to the other feed. In any case, if you're that hard up, you could do the same with a Ka-band feed if you work out the IF frequencies first and assuming the Symbol rates are compatible.

I did sky box switching back in 2001 or earlier.
http://homepage.eircom.net/~watty/satellite/sathowto-p6.htm

I made a remote switch for three LNBs too.

Very painful even on old sky software. Better to buy a HD box that has Diseqc
My current system is bit smarter.
http://www.techtir.ie/tv-radio/satellite-distribution

snaps

Ive actually been wondering if certain rural parts of Donegal and cork may not be able to get Soarsat either as they will be out of the spot beam?

I certainly wont be able to get it as my 9 east dish needs a KU band LNB for the KU services on 9east.

Personally i think its a complete waste of money, there is already a DTH sat service up and running already via 28 east. Im sure DTT will reach a lot more people than has been estimated.

How many will actually use the 9 east service? will be interesting to see the cost per head when it launches.

Who is funding this? Tax payer? License fee payer?

watty

Nowhere in Ireland is out of spot.

Might need next size up dish in Ballycastle Co.Antrim.

Fraction of price of 28E, as it doesn't have HD, RTE news now etc

RTE NL need sat backup feed to DTT sites. Sky Feed used for Analogue is MPEG2 so no use.

rurs

I'm curious as to why they chose the Ka band for this sat, and not stick to the Ku norm. Is it something to do with more capacity at higher frequencies, despite being more prone to rain-fade, and needing more power?

scruffy66

snaps wrote: »

[Personally i think its a complete waste of money, there is already a DTH sat service up and running already via 28 east. Im sure DTT will reach a lot more people than has been estimated.

How many will actually use the 9 east service? will be interesting to see the cost per head when it launches.]

You obviously haven't Done the sums , you can get a HD box 70 or 80 euro
If you where fitting 4 rooms. 4 HD boxes 300 euro , 2 dishes and Diseqc switches and cable 100euro.That's 400 -450 for the bits + labour.

4 Combo boxes 650 -700 Euro+ labour, Need i continue ?

Obviously having a box that can have the epg for both irish and english channels would be preferable , if it happens it wont be cheap.

watty

rurs wrote: »

I'm curious as to why they chose the Ka band for this sat, and not stick to the Ku norm. Is it something to do with more capacity at higher frequencies, despite being more prone to rain-fade, and needing more power?

Horns and waveguides are about 1/3 the weight and nearly 1/4 volume. It has 82 spots, approximately 20 horns and waveguides per dish, with 4 dishes. A dish does almost 1/2 the size of spot for same size dish. Four dishes on it. The Amplifiers etc can carry nearly twice the traffic, even if similar design, which they are not.

It allows much higher capacity. It's nearly 20x capacity of typical satellite. Also Ku over Europe is fairly packed.

It's per spot and per carrier power adaptive so uses lower power automatically on clear sky.

rurs

watty wrote: »

Horns and waveguides are about 1/3 the weight and nearly 1/4 volume.

So the higher frequency/shorter wavelength of Ka band allows the use of smaller transmission apparatus, and more of them? That makes sense.

watty wrote: »

It has 82 spots. approximately 4 x 20 horns and waveguides per dish. Four dishes on it.

I realise there are two frequencies, two polarities, therefore four dishes, and a particular freq/pol can be reused on diffferent spots, but why does each dish need "4 x 20 horns and waveguides per dish"? Would 20 horns/waveguides per dish not suffice?

watty wrote: »

A dish does almost 1/2 the size of spot for same size dish.

Can't understand that:) Are you relating it to a Ku band dish?

watty wrote: »

The Amplifiers etc can carry nearly twice the traffic, even if similar design, which they are not.

It allows much higher capacity. It's nearly 20x capacity of typical satellite. Also Ku over Europe is fairly packed.

It's per spot and per carrier power adaptive so uses lower power automatically on clear sky.

Good points, thanks.

watty

rurs wrote: »

I realise there are two frequencies, two polarities, therefore four dishes, and a particular freq/pol can be reused on diffferent spots, but why does each dish need "4 x 20 horns and waveguides per dish"? Would 20 horns/waveguides per dish not suffice?

Typing got a head of brain, sorry. Fixed it.

It has 82 spots, approximately 20 horns and waveguides per dish, with 4 dishes.

Can't understand that Are you relating it to a Ku band dish?

Dish Gain varies with FOURTH power of Frequency. Free space loss increases Square of Frequency, so double frequency is four times gain, i.e. like as if the dish is twice the diameter. Conversely this is why C-band dish is often 3.6m and on UHF, you only use a giant mesh dish (> 4m), and only if 8 x yagis about two wavelengths long boom is not enough gain.

This is a bit of ramble, thinking as I type:
Strictly speaking two downlink bands and two uplink bands.
Each spot has a separate low band for Downlink and high band for Uplink.

All Ku sats actually have a higher Uplink band the public doesn't use unless they have VSAT (Satellite Terminal). Usually separated by 2GHz to 4GHz from Downlink.

There is 70Gbps "capacity". Also now stated to 900Mbps per Spot, which would actually be a total of 73.8Gbps.
If we assume that is really a total of uplink and downlink, as both must equal, then there 450Mbps downlink per spot. At QPSK that would be about 500MHz of Spectrum. It's DVB-S2, so can use 8APSK, higher capacity = less spectrum. Also there is overhead of FEC and guard bands between carriers, overhead of DOCSIS, especially on client VSAT uplink rather than Earth Station.
The IF is 950MHz to 1700MHz for the Receive part of Modems on the VSAT = 750MHz.
Ku usually uses 10.7GHz to 12.6GHz. = 1900MHz.

Because of Frequency Reuse you need a gap between the Sub Bands used.
If they want to use same LNB for all spots, then you limited to 750MHz total, or about 360MHz per sub band, a bit less than the worst case 500MHz needed for QPSK + FEC. Since it's DVB-S2, (8APSK etc), then you need 180Mhz to 200MHz per sub band.

This is band plan on Hotbird 6 @ 13E Tooway Ka Band


Two bands and two polarities used on Downlink, Two bands and two polarities used on Uplink,
Each Spot is one of four possible combinations. Hence four colours used:

The 19.7GHz to 20.2GHz Downlink is 500MHz.
The 29.5GHz to 30.0GHz Uplink is 500MHz. (Ka Band)
Note dish gain is higher at 30GHz, about 8 times more than at 11GHz for same size Dish. So 72cm dish for VSAT (two way, with user having uplink transmitter) means probably not a full 4W amp in the ODU.

See http://www.techtir.ie/saortv/saorsat-coverage to understand why this makes the spots seem 1/4 area or less of what they really are. The coloured spots are not true footprints, these are much bigger, but service areas that actually overlap to leave no "holes".

Combined VSAT service Areas

The four fatter "finger tips" show roughly the true spot size. A Spot is not "exact" It has strong centre and drops off in strength.

Example of "real" Footprint of a Ku Beam. A Ka Beam on same size dish is much much smaller



8APSK on DVB-S2 allows much more capacity in same spectrum than QPSK, maybe twice.
The 900Mbps is probably though peak capacity. As rain increases and carrier on spot reaches full power the DOCSIS based VSAT for two way Internet turns down the data rate by using more robust modulation.

So Probably the LNBs for all spots can be same band and each spot uses either the top half or bottom half of the band. No tone switching needed. No polarisation switching needed. LNB is connected for horizontal or Vertical for a particular spot. Circular polarisation as used with DirecTV would be more expensive and less efficient.

Hopefully Eutelsat/Viasat will publish the bands used shortly so appropriate LNBs can be obtained by hobbyists wanting to make own feed.

snaps

scruffy66 wrote: »

snaps wrote: »

[Personally i think its a complete waste of money, there is already a DTH sat service up and running already via 28 east. Im sure DTT will reach a lot more people than has been estimated.

How many will actually use the 9 east service? will be interesting to see the cost per head when it launches.]

You obviously haven't Done the sums , you can get a HD box 70 or 80 euro
If you where fitting 4 rooms. 4 HD boxes 300 euro , 2 dishes and Diseqc switches and cable 100euro.That's 400 -450 for the bits + labour.

4 Combo boxes 650 -700 Euro+ labour, Need i continue ?

Obviously having a box that can have the epg for both irish and english channels would be preferable , if it happens it wont be cheap.

Cost for RTE for each person that will actually use the service. eg, say it costs 1,000,000 a year for the service to rte and 10,000 people use the service. so that will cost RTE an overhead or expenditure of 100e for each customer? With me?

watty

Not really,
as RTE NL need a method of backup feed to every DTT site and also any "community self help fill in" (remember only 52 sites rather than 140 to 200 really needed).

Extra running cost (never mind €40M rollout cost) to add 2% more DTT coverage when you have 98% is much more than €1.5M quoted forr Saorsat.

1,469,521 households in 2006 http://www.cso.ie/quicktables/GetQuickTables.aspx?FileName=CNA33.asp&TableName=Number+of+private+households+and+persons+in+private+households+in+each+Province+,+County+and+City&StatisticalProduct=DB_CN

even 1% of that is 14,695 households = about 102 per household
with 2% it's €51
with 10%, which is very feasible usage for Saorsat, it's €10 a household

BUT it's actually ZERO per person as the service is needed ANYWAY as a backup feed!

Adding enough more DTT for 99% instead of 98% (Remember RTE NL is legally obliged now to give full coverage).
Rollout cost about €15M. Say you borrow money over 5 years, thats maybe 3.5Million a year or €225 per person, excluding annual cost of Distribution, Electricity and Maintenence. Which could be €2.6M p.a. for 40 sites about = €175 per household
Total is about €400 per person, or €6.1M p.a. for 5 years.
Add 99% to 99.5%. You need about another 40 DTT sites!
So next tranch of 0.5% household is nearly €800 per person, or an additional €6.1M.

Thus Total cost to do 99.9% (leaving over 1,500 households with no FTA Irish TV) is probably an additional €18M a year, assuming the up front rollout costs paid off over 5 years. If 30,000 watch it (full 1.9% covered), that's €600 p.a. per person! If only 1/2 of those covered watch it (15,000) then it's €1200 per person.

So for full coverage using Mix of DTT (52 sites) and Satellite, Backup feed and option for single PVR for FreesatHD and Irish TV the cost is €1.5M p.a. using Ka-Sat. (which is probably slight overcharging by Eutelsat, or RTE slightly inflating figures).

For 99.9% approximately you need perhaps 120 additional DTT sites, 170 overall. Maybe more. A minimum of €18M a year, maybe €25M p.a. Roll out cost €45M minimum, could be €90M


What percent of people with DTT will use Saorsat so as to have a single sat PVR for Freesat HD (no combo PVR does full Freesat compatibility)?

Gipo3

I have vu+ duo and will be hoping to use saorsat. That will mean i have twin satellite tuner and dtt on usb stick. So rather than only been able to record on one mux and not watch the other it will hopefully expand the possibilities. In one bedroom have old analogue tv with freesat hd box that will also handle saorsat. So saorsaat will be used much more than the remaining two percent, especially people who have combos and when the second mux starts will have reduced viewing on saorview while recording.

snaps

Watty, but did i see a post earlier or on another thread where you said that the soarsat service will only carry the 4 Irish channels and not the 3e/News now and not even RTE2 HD?

watty

I think I have been saying the opposite, that it will be a copy of Saorview.
http://www.saortv.info/satellite-saorsat/

The content of Saorsat is likely a copy of what ever Saorview is. This is because it will be a backup feed for most transmitters and possibly direct feed for some very small transmitters. It’s for the 2% to 8% that may not get a good enough signal via aerial.

Saorsat is simply the branding for Irish Free Digital TV via a satellite dish.

Sky services initially will be unchanged. RTE have no plans to add extra Saorview content, RTE HD or the RTE Digital Radio to Sky. The existing provision of RTE, TG4 and TV on Sky is at Sky’s request and costs.

See the Channels page for details of content

If Irish TV on Satellite used Sky today as a FTV card platform, then it might only have 4 or 5 channels and no HD.

For RTE NL to use it to backup feed to DTT sites (which RTE has said), and for it to "let RTE NL" off the hook about doing "full Terrestrial Coverage" (Which is publically stated intention, and appears to have Government approval) for allegedly last 2% (actual percentage not covered by 52 DTT sites is more contentious figure IMO), then the Saorsat has to be a copy. I've stated I believe they will use one DVB-S2 carrier at 8APSK per terrestrial Multiplex to make huge equipment cost savings.

Basically feed the copies of two MPEG2-TS (that are used to feed the terrestrial distribution) via ASI to the two DVB-S2 modulators for uplink P.A. on Earth Station dish, and at each DTT site a professional TS DVB-S2 receive outputs a TS on ASI (BNC connector) which feeds a stream fail detecting priority change over switch with Terrestrial fibre or Microwave feed, to the DVB-T modulator for the PSB Mux. One set per mux.

I don't 100% know this is the plan. I'll be very surprised if it's much different.

The traffic for each Mux is about 5% of the capacity of the Irish spot of Ka-Sat. So if BAI/Comreg/DCNER ever let Saorview have two more PSB Mux out of the remaining Pay TV mux, there is no problem adding them (unlike on 28.2 apart from Encryption Issues).

If there ever was pay TV on Irish DTT, that's not part of Saorview, doesn't need full coverage (they can do 90% or 95% or what ever they negotiate on licence) so doesn't need Saorsat, or any other satellite at all. Any Pay TV operator makes their own arrangements.

3e is apparently not pay TV, or it would not be FTA on Saorview. If TV3 decide 3e is a PayTV channel, then they need a payTV licence on DTT, viewing cards etc, or simply only have it on cable & Satellite.

snaps

i wonder if SKy will ever move over to mpeg 4?

Thanks Watty for your replies, i just recall a statement from you about RTE 2HD/3e/news now, but like you said you could have been refering to the 28 east services.

I have great DTT coverage from 3 transmitters so no worries for me.

fat-tony

snaps wrote: »

i wonder if SKy will ever move over to mpeg 4?...

HD channels from SKY are MPEG-4 on DVB-S2 transponders.

snaps

fat-tony wrote: »

HD channels from SKY are MPEG-4 on DVB-S2 transponders.

Yes i am aware of that but i meant all their channels!

fat-tony

They would have to have their older SD boxes out of circulation before they moved to MPEG-4 on SD. I know the standard box now is the HD version, but there are a lot of old boxes out there.

watty

Also most of the FTA on Sky is Freesat. Same applies to Freesat.

scruffy66

snaps wrote: »

scruffy66 wrote: »

Cost for RTE for each person that will actually use the service. eg, say it costs 1,000,000 a year for the service to rte and 10,000 people use the service. so that will cost RTE an overhead or expenditure of 100e for each customer? With me?

Easily know you get DTT signal without a problem, the 10,000 which i think is
a low figure also pay a TV license fee, so if RTE dont do the saorsat service,
What would your suggestion be.

If its just about saving 1 million a year , why not get rid of DTT and just have
the SAORSAT service and save millions, Its a bit of an im all right JACK kind of point you were making. You can run a company like that but not a country.:D

The Cush

scruffy66 wrote: »

If its just about saving 1 million a year , why not get rid of DTT and just have the SAORSAT service and save millions,

The state owns and controls the terrestrial network but it doesn't own or control the single satellite that will transmit the Saorsat service, no back-up satellite.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056010275

Andy454

I bought a KA band LNB last week to have a look at this service.

Installed in on my 1.2m motorised system - Locked in with 100% Quality and Strength on my Humax HDR 1

All channels stored - I presume my HDR 1 doesn't have the e fada character as all stored as RT One, RT Two etc.

HD Picture on RT Two is good, not as sharp as the picture on sky hd box mind you and RT One looks rubbish.

I thought this unusual, as picture on Humax HDR usually looks better than the crap amstrad sky hd bo (comparing bbc hd).

The signals must be decoded and re-encoded somwhere along the line - looks similar to the muck mpeg 2 stations on ntl.

I moved the dish back to 28.2 later on..... but then realised, The blasted lnb is a ka band one... I had to trundle back out and change it back...

Will try use it with my old LNB dual bracket later, will align dish to 28.2 and add lnb to the end of the bracket, will be interesting to see signal levels on 1.2m pointed at 28.2

t c

I am sure one of the reasons RTE is going KA is to purposefully make it difficult for people just to add a LNB/feed to their existing receiver, unless they are enthusiasts.

If you imagine how many Saorview boxes will be sold in the the changeover and I am sure RTE are getting a cut on "approving" these boxes.

A nice little earner...............................................

Ronnie Raygun

RTE getting a cut of what? I would have thought people would have stopped posting such nonsense at this stage.

Anyway, adding a Ka feed is only potentially troublesome on motorised setups using smaller dishes, not on fixed unless you want 9E Ku as well.

It was never the intended purpose of Saorsat to be an alternative to Saorview, only to be used in areas where the latter is unavailable.

watty

The Reason RTENL are using Ka-Sat is otherwise there would be BISS or other Feeds only format encoded backup feeds for DTT sites on 27.5W (C5 and BBC use that) or something (BISS is totally inaccessible to public) at much higher expense, or nothing at all.

Ka-Sat is the only solution available for Irish Free To Air Satellite TV. It's also cheaper carriage too.

RTE can't afford encryption for a FTV card scheme. That actually costs more to run (excluding carriage) than Ka-Sat Carriage.

RTE doesn't get any money from each box sold. Teracom gets a ONCE off fee from the maker, unrelated to how many are sold.

t c

@Ronnie Raygun.

If you read the thread properly it is fairly obvious what I was suggesting the "cut" I was referring to was from.

It may be "nonsense" in YOUR opinion, but we are all allowed an opinion and I still stand by mine.

As Saorview is a registered trademark, if people want to use it's name on their product, there is no doubt, in my opinion, that they have to pay a fee for the privilege.

So don't be so ignorant as to dismiss someone else's OPINION so quickly and state that it is in "YOUR opinion nonsense"..........

And as is fairly clear in the second half of your post "only potentially troublesome on motorised setups using smaller dishes, not on fixed unless you want 9E Ku as well." How many ordinary people would have a clue as to what you are waffling on about, except an enthusiast, as I said.

MarkK

No point getting on your high horse, what you posted was nonsense
... in my opinion.

Peter Rhea

t c wrote: »

If you read the thread properly it is fairly obvious what I was suggesting the "cut" I was referring to was from. . .

So the thrust of your argument is that RTE are forcing people to use their terrestrial service by depriving them of FTA channels on 28 east & it's all to sell as much Saorview approved equipment as possible & nothing to do with providing a cost-effective service using as much of our own infrastructure as possible?

t c

Peter Rhea wrote: »

So the thrust of your argument is that RTE are forcing people to use their terrestrial service by depriving them of FTA channels on 28 east & it's all to sell as much Saorview approved equipment as possible & nothing to do with providing a cost-effective service using as much of our own infrastructure as possible?

What other choice do they have for "free" Irish channels?

watty

What choice do people have in ANY country for Free Terrestrial Digital TV?

Maybe we should shut down FM. LW and DAB too and save money by having cheaper Satellite Radio. Actually Comreg would LOVE it if all terrestrial TV & Radio was closed and they could sell the Spectrum. They actually believe Satellite should totally replace Terrestrial. Which is deluded nonsense. It a complementary technology.

t c

I'm not quoting Comrag only Saorview ads that say from October that Irish channels are going digital and will be free provided you BUY a Saorview box. And that is provided you already haver an aerial, but do not mention the fact that you need one..............

None of that is free and a lot of people in the present times are finding it hard to make ends meet, never mind having to buy new equipment for local "FREE" tv on top of and exorbitant tv licence.

MarkK

t c wrote: »

None of that is free and a lot of people in the present times are finding it hard to make ends meet, never mind having to buy new equipment for local "FREE" tv on top of and exorbitant tv licence.

Same as radio isn't free as you have to buy a radio.
Most homes are paying hundreds of euro a year in subscriptions to UPC or Sky on top of their license fees. Saorview is free as in non-subscription.

Obviously the cost of converting is tough on low income families.
That does not mean it's some sort of RTE money grabbing conspiracy as you are trying to make out.

t c

Yeah you buy a radio and you receive radio stations , you buy (or have) a tv and you have to buy a receiver or aerial to receive tv.

Anyway this is gone off my original point that RTE are receiving a fee for every Saorview receiver that claims to be approved.

We pay RTE a licence fee and they also get revenue from advertising, no other national tv broadcaster that I am aware of gets so much funding.

This being the case, it should really be "free" tv.

Just look on this forum and see how many people want to leave Sky and UPC for "free" tv. People do not mind paying a once off cost of getting free tv, receiver, dish etc, but national tv should be FREE.

Also I am not, nor never said, it was a money grabbing conspiracy, all I said was it could be made easier.

Peter Rhea

t c wrote: »

Anyway this is gone off my original point that RTE are receiving a fee for every Saorview receiver that claims to be approved.

If you don't have proof of this arrangement, it isn't much of a 'point'.

It's a bit childish to be slinging this kind of stuff about & I'd kind of hoped we'd seen the last of it in this forum.

Ronnie Raygun

t c wrote: »

... my original point that RTE are receiving a fee for every Saorview receiver that claims to be approved.

Post one of their trade mark licence agreements if you want to give yourself some credibility.

I think this thread should be locked, we've seen all this before.

watty

Irish National TV *IS* Free.
RTE actually is not highly funded.
They have paid the €70M to upgrade to Digital and don't get an extra cent from Licence fee, Saorview certification (costs them money to run the Saorview informational exercise), and no money from Government for Digital Upgrade. RTE licence fee percentage has actually been cut.

NO One, not even Teracom gets a fee for each receiver. Teracom (not RTE) get a fixed fee (once off) to TEST each MODEL (not all produced, just a few samples) for Certification or Fail. They are Scandinavian thus expensive (once off cost per model) and we wish RTE had chosen someone cheaper but it was to keep Boxer happy. RTE nor RTENL don't get any revenue from boxes sold. The Saorview Logo & Certification system is costing them time and money.

I'm quite sure www.saorview.ie costs RTE 1,000s of times more than the independent www.saortv.info

t c
Please do some research before posting allegations on a high profile website. Your claims are absolute nonsense.


Yes, RTE do waste lots of money, overpay presenters, have adverts on RTE1 Radio & 2FM Radio and Lyric FM which should be advert free. All RTE1 Music and phone in/Chat shows should be on 2FM. Their DAB plans pointless and digital radio quality poor. They should not have closed MW. They SHOULD have continued SW Broadcast when they started 20 years late in 1948 and stopped again. They should be transmitting DRM (Digital Radio) on MW & SW.

There are LOTS of things to criticise about RTE. Pick real issues, not imaginary ones.

Sam Russell

And yet again ....... in October RTE are not going Digital - they did that on the 26th May 2011. On October 24th 2012 they are turning off their analogue transmitters, the digital stuff is all on now (except for a few tweaks that must wait for Norn Iron to catch up on).

RTE NL have already gone digital. ThreeRock have been digital since August 2008 in more or less the current format.

RTE will launch (for the third time) Saorview on the 24th October, because they missed the first two times. They are slow learners. However, it was RTE NL who got it up and running, not RTE themselves. So well done them.:)

icdg

Calm down people. We don't drag up old threads, in any case.