The Cronyism Continues As FF Leaves Office

Biggins

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/ff-stuffing-quangos-with-cronies-during-its-last-days-in-office-2498058.html

FF stuffing quangos with cronies during its last days in office

Ministers appoint party insiders to roles on key state boards

THE Fianna Fail-led Government is stuffing quangos and state boards with political cronies and insiders in its last weeks of office.
In an unprecedented spree of patronage, ministers have appointed Fianna Fail councillors and supporters to often lucrative part-time boardroom positions.

In the last two weeks, a series of appointments has been rubberstamped by ministers.

Leitrim FF councillor Mary Bohan has joined the board of the Health and Safety Authority, which paid its board members €97,067 in 2009. She was also appointed by Fianna Fail to the Central Fisheries Board and has served, unpaid, on the Fire Services Council.

Donegal FF councillor David Alcorn has been appointed to the National Roads Authority, which paid its directors a total of €98,000 in 2008.
Former Louth Fianna Fail councillor and activist Pearse Hanrahan has been put onto the board of the Railway Procurement Agency, which paid its board members €13,000 last year.

Transport Minister Noel Dempsey -- who is to stand down at the forthcoming General Election -- appointed both men to the key infrastructure jobs.

Fianna Fail party trustee Rich Howlin was reappointed as chairman of the National Building Agency, which paid €11,970 last year. Mr Howlin, a trustee of the party since 1993, is a former director of Coillte. Financier and Fianna Fail loyalist Dan McGing was appointed as chairman of the Drug Treatment Centre Board. The former ACC banker was once the party's auditor.
Former Progressive Democrat local-election candidate Rita Hayes has been put on the board of the National Treatment Purchase Fund with a three-year term. Board members are paid €7,695.

Ms Hayes was appointed to the post by her former Progressive Democrat constituency colleague Mary Harney.

Former Fianna Fail spin doctor Jackie Gallagher is one of the ministerial nominees to join the board of Trinity College. The post is unpaid.
Some 291 plum jobs on state boards are to be filled by ministers by the end of February as the Government bestows its final gifts to its supporters before the expected decimation in the General Election.
Fianna Fail is utterly shameless when it comes to appointing party cronies to state boards.

In recent years, former Fianna Fail general-secretary Pat Farrell has been appointed to the boards of the Health Service Executive, VHI and Dormant Accounts Board.

Former Fianna Fail senator Aidan Eames sits on the board of An Bord Gais, which paid him €11,753 in 2009. He was appointed to the board of the nationalised Anglo Irish Bank last year.

Former FF Agriculture Minister Joe Walsh was appointed by Finance Minister Brian Lenihan to BoI. He is chairman of the bloodstock quango Horse Sport Ireland. The board of the ESB includes former FF councillor Gary Keegan, while the loss-making Dublin Airport Authority has former FF minister Gerry Collins on its board.

CIE's board includes Paul Kiely, one of Bertie Ahern's closest allies, as well as Neil Ormond, who comes from a staunch Fianna Fail background.
But Fianna Fail is not alone in this regard. Progressive Democrat party trustee Brendan Malone has also served on the boards of the Dublin Docklands Authority and the Railway Procurement Agency, while another former party loyalist, Paul Mackay, sits on the board of the IDA.

The Green Party has also seen a number of key insiders parachuted on to state boards during its term in office.

This matter was reported weeks ago as happening and besides Fine Gael TD Leo Varadkar, the rest opposition is saying NOTHING about it,

THIS IS A BLATANT ABUSE OF AWARDING JOBS IN THIS COUNTRY AND IS DISGUSTING!!!

See the original article that details more: http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/dec/26/conor-mcmorrow-unlike-britain-we-dont-have-an-offi/

I said it before - but I don't think anyone was listening - and I will say it again...
The only reason they are delaying this fourth coming election is mainly to hand out these 300 jobs before they are thrown out of office!

There should be an investigation into the awarding of these jobs.
Its a fcuking disgrace. To me its bordering on criminal!

How ANYONE can stand by Fianna Fail, support them, while even during their dying days in office they still carry on and behave like this, either is completely stupid, deliberately blind or just needs top be hit over the head repeatedly with a large bottle of "Kop the frig on" and wake up to the disgusting organisation that Fianna Fail is!

They are a bunch of while collar criminals hiding behind their law books and high priced solicitors!

amacachi

Biggins wrote: »

THIS IS A BLATANT ABUSE OF AWARDING JOBS IN THIS COUNTRY AND IS DISGUSTING!!!

And the next government will do the same and so will the one after that. It's the same in Britain, the Tories promised to get rid of loads of QUANGOs and are doing so, but just the ones with a lot of influence or membership from Labour.
While we have a system of governance of having a lot of power but no responsibility by spreading the "power" through the Dáil and the civil service and all the agencies we're always going to have jobs for the boys and their wives. Anyone suggesting changing this is generally called a delusional right-winger.

Biggins

amacachi wrote: »

And the next government will do the same and so will the one after that. It's the same in Britain, the Tories promised to get rid of loads of QUANGOs and are doing so, but just the ones with a lot of influence or membership from Labour.
While we have a system of governance of having a lot of power but no responsibility by spreading the "power" through the Dáil and the civil service and all the agencies we're always going to have jobs for the boys and their wives. Anyone suggesting changing this is generally called a delusional right-winger.

Which is why dear god, we need a totally new political organisation in government that first month in office sets up a TOTALLY independent body to award state jobs to people that actually deserve them based on training and experience - not just years of loyal service "to the party" and for favours being returned!

On quangos alone, since Sean Lemass when there was just under a dozen quangos/semi-state bodies - now there is over 440 for gods sake!
There is even a bloody quango for the car park of Crumlins Childrens hospital!

The 1970 Devlin Report identified 80 - by 2008 according to a policy paper by Vardkar, there are now over 445.

207 quangos and state agencies alone alone were created between 1997 and 2007 with HUGE overlaps of roles between one and the other including drugs, scientific research and corporate law.

Varadkar has determined there are 2,416 people sitting on the boards of some of these bodies, all answerable to political FF masters.
At the time of Varadkar's report the Minister for Justice alone could land 325 of his favourites onto positions while the Minister for Health and Children holds 472 positions of patronage for the FF followers.
In all by 2008 alone nearly 6,000 FF "directors" have been appointed!

* The above details amid many shocking other come from "Wasters": http://www.waterstones.com/waterstonesweb/products/shane+ross/nick+webb/wasters/7892140/

All these are ways of further giving out "jobs for the boys (and girls)" and need to seriously stripped down in number!

amacachi

Biggins wrote: »

Which is why dear god, we need a totally new political organisation in government that first month in office sets up a TOTALLY independent body to award state jobs to people that actually deserve them based on training and experience - not just years of loyal service "to the party" and for favours being returned!

I look forward to that ever happening.

gandalf

Most Quangos need to be abolished we as a nation cannot afford them any more and tbh most do not actually provide any service to us at all.

Those that are left after cull should be populated in the manner Biggins describes. Remove the influence of any Government involvement thereby removing the charges of political clientism.

Sulmac

Shane Ross has the right idea here - have an independent committee put forward a few names, then have these people questioned by the relevant Oireachtas committee (e.g. Health for the HSE) on why they're fit for the job, and then have them voted in by two-thirds of the Dáil. I don't think anyone who realises we have a major problem today can disagree with this.

Biggins

Sulmac wrote: »

Shane Ross has the right idea here - have an independent committee put forward a few names, then have these people questioned by the relevant Oireachtas committee (e.g. Health for the HSE) on why they're fit for the job, and then have them voted in by two-thirds of the Dáil. I don't think anyone who realises we have a major problem today can disagree with this.

Part of me actually wants the IMF to come to this country - if only to rip the bollox out of "jobs for the boys" bodies!

amacachi

And who decides who is on this independent commission? Also bear in mind that that would be another QUANGO.

Sulmac

amacachi wrote: »

And who decides who is on this independent commission? Also bear in mind that that would be another QUANGO.

It would be a QUANGO with oversight though.

The selection process would be difficult to determine, but those on the committee should receive all-party support.

Biggins

amacachi wrote: »

And who decides who is on this independent commission? Also bear in mind that that would be another QUANGO.

I thought about that too and one idea I though of was that one person (president?) should appoint nominate those few positions from the heads of independent charitable organisations in Ireland.

Yes, its a mad idea and full of holes but we have to start somewhere with ideas.

amacachi

Sulmac wrote: »

It would be a QUANGO with oversight though.

The selection process would be difficult to determine, but those on the committee should receive all-party support.

Then it'll just be whoever has managed to keep their fingers in every pie. :pac:

Biggins wrote: »

I thought about that too and one idea I though of was that one person (president?) should appoint nominate those few positions from the heads of independent charitable organisations in Ireland.

The president, that most independent of offices. :pac:

Sir Oxman

Sulmac wrote: »

Shane Ross has the right idea here - have an independent committee put forward a few names, then have these people questioned by the relevant Oireachtas committee (e.g. Health for the HSE) on why they're fit for the job, and then have them voted in by two-thirds of the Dáil. I don't think anyone who realises we have a major problem today can disagree with this.

Totally agree.
His idea is sound, based on the record of ALL govt parties over the past decades (mainly FF, especially under the Ahern regimes) who have used the Banana Republic's alternative to the British honours system to lift their party members/sympathisers into state roles.

One important part of his proposal is that by doing what you quoted, it would be a great deal more difficult for the boys and girls of FF/FG/Lab etc to be openly (he wants the 'quango' commitees broadcast) appointed when it is obvious the majority have absolutely no skills to match the appointments except their party badges.

On another note, I really hope the murmurings of a swathe of intelligent economists and reformers standing for election as Independents is true this time and that they form a loose technical grouping in the next Dail.

Political reform is vital.

Sir Oxman

amacachi wrote: »

Then it'll just be whoever has managed to keep their fingers in every pie. :pac:

The president, that most independent of offices. :pac:

I could well imagine Norris fitting that description.;)

Biggins

amacachi wrote: »

The president, that most independent of offices. :pac:

Indeed and as I already said "full of holes".

So suggestions please?

Fitzerb

Biggins wrote: »

Indeed and as I already said "full of holes".

So suggestions please?

I really dont have an idea how. We need people with experience to appointi people to boards. There is huge cost involved in running these boards. You need trade union people / business people/ someone to consider the less well off in society/ someone from education and becuase we live in a parish its impossible to get anyone who has that experience that has not got connections.

sligopark

Biggins wrote: »

So suggestions please?

Perhaps Shane Ross in office would be able to make enough noise to begin the removal of these quangos under a FG government especially as they are stuffed full with FF cronys ' jobs for the boys' and are no friend to the smooth workings of a FG government?

Biggins

sligopark wrote: »

Perhaps Shane Ross in office would be able to make enough noise to begin the removal of these quangos under a FG government especially as they are stuffed full with FF cronys ' jobs for the boys' and are no friend to the smooth workings of a FG government?

To be honest, I deeply suspect that FG are or would be just as bad sooner or later at same cronyism.
They certainly have been in the past - which might explain why they are most certainly not raising this issue any further!
- Covering their own ass and fear of been tainted as a party "the pot calling the kettle black"

...The same reason as well in relation to tougher penalties and repayments, why they did not push the expenses issue any further either!

Liam Byrne

Not to mention the damage done by the fact that those appointed have been so busy licking asses that they're not qualified or competent in said positions.

amacachi

Biggins wrote: »

Indeed and as I already said "full of holes".

So suggestions please?

I thought it was obvious from my first post on this thread, we need a huge scaling back of the scale of government power and how many areas it has that power. Unfortunately no career politician and few in the legal profession are ever going to want that. The only hypothetical solution I can think of would be a new constitution limiting the government, something which I'd be pretty sure is damn far away for as long as we're in the EU. Most people on here wouldn't want the kind of thing I'm talking about, they like having the state around to look after everyone but not the crap that inevitably goes with it.
As far as I'm concerned there is simply no solution, though I'm sure if it becomes a big enough issue the next government will look at the situation, set up a committee of friends, have several consultations and reports drawn up at huge expense and then change everything around to a new system which still employs and looks after roughly the same number of people at the same cost. But hey, maybe not everyone is as cynical as I am. :pac:

Sulmac

Biggins wrote: »

To be honest, I deeply suspect that FG are or would be just as bad sooner or later at same cronyism.
They certainly have been in the past - which might explain why they are most certainly not raising this issue any further!
- Covering their own ass and fear of been tainted as a party "the pot calling the kettle black"

Well, to be fair to Fine Gael - or Leo Varadkar at least - they have published a "Public Appointments Transparency Bill" which goes some way to addressing the problem. See here and here (with the actual bill being here). Not perfect but a lot better than the system we have now.

ArtSmart

folks, this is just the usual indo getting the boot in nonsense. the boot into a govt which didnt rescue Waterford Glass and didnt play ball.

(now, know well i'm no FF fan)

re-read the article, divided the numbers by board members, the money covers travelling expenses at most.

the issue is
1/ do we need boards on any institution

2/ who should be appointed and how


far as i understand, the general understanding is that board members serve an important function (even Ross isn't suggesting that all boards are eliminated)

as for point two, yup, change is needed.

but to be a useful member of a board, you need experience skills and a desire to serve. certainly not as some suggested - 'names in a hat'.

anyway, main point is BEWARE THE IDES OF INDO.

ArtSmart

Sulmac wrote: »

Shane Ross has the right idea here - have an independent committee put forward a few names, then have these people questioned by the relevant Oireachtas committee (e.g. Health for the HSE) on why they're fit for the job, and then have them voted in by two-thirds of the Dáil. I don't think anyone who realises we have a major problem today can disagree with this.

for significant appointments - central bank, etc, yup.

but most are mickey mouse appointments.

Biggins

ArtSmart wrote: »

folks, this is just the usual indo getting the boot in nonsense...
...main point is BEWARE THE IDES OF INDO.

Actually this current racket was reported some time ago by the Tribune (link above).
The Indo is only playing catch-up. The might have their own agenda - but the cronyism is STILL going on and was reported so previously.

ArtSmart

Biggins wrote: »

Actually this current racket was reported some time ago by the Tribune (link above).
The Indo is only playing catch-up. The might have their own agenda - but the cronyism is STILL going on and was reported so previously.

for sure. but as you recognise, the motivation is different.

and yes, i'm in general deeply suspicious of anything the Sindo writes. this is true. and anything they write about FF LAB SF (all except FG - for the moment...) i view with sceptic eyes.

but the real cronyism is not board appointments, it's FF connection with big business. how much coverage did this get, before O'Reilly was told 'fook off?' (basically around the same time as McCreevy was sent packing)

my real issue with the sindo is the undercurrent - the support of neo-classical economics and the bashing of public servants - so any 'investigative' journalism i view as i say with scepticism .

ETA. just to develop a point .
McCreevy's policies were initially embraced by Bertie, but when the full mantra was revealed Bertie say no. - for all his faults, Bertie was pro- collective engagement with trade unions / populace - he believed negotiation / agreement between the social ptnr was the best way forward. McCreevy (and O'Reilly) firmly did not.

to illustrate this remember McCreevy happily joined Micheal O Leary's Ryanair - whilst Bertie hated O' Leary and all he stood for; likewise Bertie wasnt going to play ball with O'Reilly.

Bertie is /was a believer in capitalism, very much so, but not at the expense of the populace - he believed wealth should be shared. yes, he's working for a Murdock rag, but he's not making political currency out of it, whereas McCreevy was quite happy to do just that. (McCreevy got his wrist slapped by the euro ethical business dudes for doing as much.)

also.

it was charles j. haughey that destroyed FF, although it has taken nearly two decades to collapse.

the bauld Charlie was corrupt, through and through. course bertie and cowen being proteges (indirectly and directly) meant it was just a matter of time before the collapse came.

all good. and badly needed.

Biggins

ArtSmart wrote: »

for sure. but as you recognise the motivation is different.

and yes, i'm in general deeply suspicious of anything the Sindo writes. this is true. and anything they write about FF LAB SF (all except FG - for the moment...) i view with sceptic eyes.

but the real cronyism is not board appointments, it's FF connection with big business. how much coverage did this get, before O'Reilly was told 'fook off?' (basically around the same time as McCreevy was sent packing)

my real issue with the sindo is the undercurrent - the support of neo-classical economics and the bashing of public servants - so any 'investigative' journalism i view as i say with scepticism .

The issue is with what is currently going on.
Now I don't care if its the Indo or as previously, the Tribune that reports these issues - but at least someone is finally bloody doing it.

ArtSmart

Biggins wrote: »

The issue is with what is currently going on.
Now I don't care if its the Indo or as previously, the Tribune that reports these issues - but at least someone is finally bloody doing it.

well tbh, this should be common knowledge for anyone with a passing interest in politics. - no offense Biggins - what i'm saying is that govt appointment to boards is old, old, news. and for a govt to increase the rate of app.s before leaving offices is very old news - all parties have done so.

this is a smoke and mirrors operation. weak journalism - actually more propaganda than journalism, and that's what annoys me the most.

where are the real stories?

last one i remember was from O'toole and before that Charlie Bird and George Lee.

thebman

ArtSmart wrote: »

well tbh, this should be common knowledge for anyone with a passing interest in politics. - no offense Biggins - what i'm saying is that govt appointment to boards is old, old, news. and for a govt to increase the rate of app.s before leaving offices is very old news - all parties have done so.

this is a smoke and mirrors operation. weak journalism - actually more propaganda than journalism, and that's what annoys me the most.

where are the real stories?

last one i remember was from O'toole and before that Charlie Bird and George Lee.

It is a real story even if it happened before, it is happening again now.

Eventually the electorate might actually notice the pattern and demand change which will stop these shenanigans. If we didn't report things that have happened before, there would be very little news.

Biggins

ArtSmart wrote: »

where are the real stories?

These are some of the real stories and they shouldn't be dismissed so easily in attitude.
We should not just address the ones that are daily on the front of our papers more so just for populist support - we should address the likes of the above cronyism for they are the personification of ongoing procedures being used as corruptible practise.

To address this situation is a damn good start to further addressing the rest - and I don't care what paper mentions the ongoing situation - as long as it putting further pressure on those elected, to sort the mess out!

ArtSmart

Biggins wrote: »

These are some of the real stories and they shouldn't be dismissed so easily in attitude.
We should not just address the ones that are daily on the front of our papers more so just for populist support - we should address the likes of the above cronyism for they are the personification of ongoing procedures being used as corruptible practise.

To address this situation is a damn good start to further addressing the rest - and I don't care what paper mentions the ongoing situation - as long as it putting further pressure on those elected, to sort the mess out!

so what you saying?



yeah for sure.

jus' sayin, it's important to know a media's agenda if any exists when these stories are released. doesnt mean they're not true, or not important, just that it's wise to be aware of a media agenda. IM (H) O.

Sir Oxman

ArtSmart wrote: »

for significant appointments - central bank, etc, yup.

but most are mickey mouse appointments.

A lot of the quangos are overlaps and useless.
But that's not the point of them - they exploded over the past ten years simply to put key supporters in positions where favours are granted/up the profile/esteem in the local communities etc

It is a very important point to recognise what role these appointments play in our stinking republic and to push for reform.

Biggins

ArtSmart wrote: »

...jus' sayin, it's important to know a media's agenda if any exists when these stories are released. doesnt mean they're not true, or not important, just that it's wise to be aware of a media agenda. IM (H) O.

Yea, yea, you've attempted side-tracking enough - back on topic, this cronyism still continues in these last dying weeks of FF in office...

Their actions stand and once again their actions are disgusting and show exactly for whom they care for - themselves and those who support their cult!

ArtSmart

Biggins wrote: »

Yea, yea, you've attempted side-tracking enough - back on topic, this cronyism still continues in these last dying weeks of FF in office...

Their actions stand and once again their actions are disgusting and show exactly for whom they care for - themselves and those who support their cult!

not a side track, an 'overview'

do you actually think i'm suggesting the use of appointments as political currency for supporters is a good thing?

what i'm saying is

BEWARE THE IDES OF INDO.

which is not only quite witty, (:D) but quite relevant.

it's easy to get emotionally aroused by sound bites and rhetoric. i dont for a second consider the Indo to be concerned for the welfare of the general population of Ireland. but i do know them to be very concerned about the welfare of big business - unless it's in competition with Tony's projects of course.

Biggins

ArtSmart wrote: »

not a side track, an 'overview'

do you actually think i'm suggesting the use of appointments as political currency for supporters is a good thing?

what i'm saying is

BEWARE THE IDES OF INDO.

which is not only quite witty, (:D) but quite relevant.

it's easy to get emotionally aroused by sound bites and rhetoric. i dont for a second consider the Indo to be concerned for the welfare of the general population of Ireland. but i do know them to be very concerned about the welfare of big business - unless it's in competition with Tony's projects of course.

Ok, you've said your opinion on the Indo - we get it. The Tribune was there before them anyway!
Can we move on now and get back to the actual crap that is going on by Fianna Fail!

jmayo

ArtSmart wrote: »

for sure. but as you recognise, the motivation is different.

and yes, i'm in general deeply suspicious of anything the Sindo writes. this is true. and anything they write about FF LAB SF (all except FG - for the moment...) i view with sceptic eyes.

but the real cronyism is not board appointments, it's FF connection with big business. how much coverage did this get, before O'Reilly was told 'fook off?' (basically around the same time as McCreevy was sent packing)

my real issue with the sindo is the undercurrent - the support of neo-classical economics and the bashing of public servants - so any 'investigative' journalism i view as i say with scepticism .

ETA. just to develop a point .
McCreevy's policies were initially embraced by Bertie, but when the full mantra was revealed Bertie say no. - for all his faults, Bertie was pro- collective engagement with trade unions / populace - he believed negotiation / agreement between the social ptnr was the best way forward. McCreevy (and O'Reilly) firmly did not.

to illustrate this remember McCreevy happily joined Micheal O Leary's Ryanair - whilst Bertie hated O' Leary and all he stood for; likewise Bertie wasnt going to play ball with O'Reilly.

Bertie is /was a believer in capitalism, very much so, but not at the expense of the populace - he believed wealth should be shared. yes, he's working for a Murdock rag, but he's not making political currency out of it, whereas McCreevy was quite happy to do just that. (McCreevy got his wrist slapped by the euro ethical business dudes for doing as much.)

also.

it was charles j. haughey that destroyed FF, although it has taken nearly two decades to collapse.

the bauld Charlie was corrupt, through and through. course bertie and cowen being proteges (indirectly and directly) meant it was just a matter of time before the collapse came.

all good. and badly needed.

Careful now, thatpost almost reads as an excuse for bertie, what with your tarring of the two charlies and making out bertie was a socialist after all.
Funny I always thought his socialistic ideas were to share money out in order to buy elections and favours ? :rolleyes:

ArtSmart wrote: »

well tbh, this should be common knowledge for anyone with a passing interest in politics. - no offense Biggins - what i'm saying is that govt appointment to boards is old, old, news. and for a govt to increase the rate of app.s before leaving offices is very old news - all parties have done so.

So we should not bother mentioning it ?

ArtSmart wrote: »

so what you saying?



yeah for sure.

jus' sayin, it's important to know a media's agenda if any exists when these stories are released. doesnt mean they're not true, or not important, just that it's wise to be aware of a media agenda. IM (H) O.

Spekaing of agenda's, yours appears to be gloss over these appointments since the inept pathetic government also did dodgy hidden stuff with businesses ?

Yes the media has an agenda, especially ours who are primairly owned by certain individuals or controlled by certain party trolls.
But these are facts, not suposition, opinion pieces or editorials.

The fact is ff are stacking the baords of any body they can with party hacks and members.
It is their last chance to allow some of their own to gorge themselves at the state trough.

ArtSmart

jmayo wrote: »

Careful now, thatpost almost reads as an excuse for bertie, what with your tarring of the two charlies and making out bertie was a socialist after all.
Funny I always thought his socialistic ideas were to share money out in order to buy elections and favours ? :rolleyes:

he he. actually my post is about the two charlies for sure. bad charlies - 'charlies devils' to be exact. Bertie a socialist? no, i described his as very much a capitalist. and pointed out his involvement and promotion of the ptnership approach. i'm a big fan of blind rage myself, but now and again i like my brain to get involved, but that's me.




So we should not bother mentioning it ?

mention away. long as the sindo's agenda is seen, it's all good.



Spekaing of agenda's, yours appears to be gloss over these appointments since the inept pathetic government also did dodgy hidden stuff with businesses ?


no. remember BEWARE THE IDES OF INDO? (it was in big letters)
that'd be my 'agenda'.


Yes the media has an agenda, especially ours who are primairly owned by certain individuals or controlled by certain party trolls.
But these are facts, not suposition, opinion pieces or editorials.

you dont suppose facts could be used to further an agenda perchance?




The fact is ff are stacking the baords of any body they can with party hacks and members.
It is their last chance to allow some of their own to gorge themselves at the state trough.

for sure.

adding a further element to the mix, (ie indo's agenda) doesnt mean these facts are less true. it broadens one's understanding. or at least - it should.

Biggins

ArtSmart wrote: »

for sure.

adding a further element to the mix, (ie indo's agenda) doesnt mean these facts are less true. it broadens one's understanding. or at least - it should.

Look, this is a thread about cronyism, can you give the speeches about the Indo' a ruddy rest?
If you feel that strongly, start your own thread for god sake!

Get over it, the Tribune was there first anyway - give it a god-damn rest!

ArtSmart

sorry, i mean


:cool:

Biggins

ArtSmart wrote: »

sorry, i mean

:cool:

ArtSmart

At least Minister Éamon Ó Cuív T.D. has set up a fraud reporting facility on the welfare.ie site.

http://www.welfare.ie/en/contactus/Pages/reportfraud.aspxhim

Hope he takes my complaint about him seriously.

Biggins

Davidian_ie wrote: »

At least Minister Éamon Ó Cuív T.D. has set up a fraud reporting facility on the welfare.ie site.

http://www.welfare.ie/en/contactus/Pages/reportfraud.aspxhim

Hope he takes my complaint about him seriously.

Good luck with that! :pac:

Fitzerb

Biggins wrote: »

Yea, yea, you've attempted side-tracking enough - back on topic, this cronyism still continues in these last dying weeks of FF in office...

Their actions stand and once again their actions are disgusting and show exactly for whom they care for - themselves and those who support their cult!

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...m-2501868.html

Leo "the Lamb" withdraws his claim of cronysim.

Never let the facts spoil a good rant huh

Biggins

Fitzerb wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...m-2501868.html

Leo "the Lamb" withdraws his claim of cronysim.

Never let the facts spoil a good rant huh

Yes, lets stick our heads up our arse ...and pretend it not happening.
..Or for own reason try to spin it that because one man decided to change his words on the issue, it still isn't being done by Fianna Fail - when it is and is well established as a way of doing things and looking after ones mates, for being loyal to the party and/or for favours done!

- BUT hey, let the facts indeed speak for themselves...


* http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/ireland-business-blog-with-lisa-ocarroll/2010/nov/29/ireland

* http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/078b7faa-f8d2-11df-b550-00144feab49a.html#axzz1BhUxxCKT

* http://in.mobile.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idINIndia-53154320101125

* http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfkfkfmhgbql/rss2/

* http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/Irish-want-political-overhaul-reuters_molt-2651733819.html?x=0

* http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ahern-accused-of-blatant-political-cronyism-ahead-of-poll-651149.html

* http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1016341.shtml

* http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/mar/01/corporate-cronyism-is-still-flourishing/

* http://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/ivan-yates/no-more-cronyism-no-more-hidden-agendas-ndash-lets-just-call-it-straight-125734.html

* http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/foreign-investors-dont-want-any-part-of-inherent-irish-cronyism-2425540.html

* http://www.culturesdiary.com/article.asp?articleid=105651&Irelands-culture-of-cosy-cronyism-must-end

* http://merizim.wordpress.com/2010/02/06/cronyism-in-ireland/


Never mind the many, MANY facts laid out in the researched books - if one is bothered to actually read them instead of just coming on a forum and doesn't bother to obtain such factual material - researched, backed up with documented evidence and checked by book publishing lawyers!

Wasters: http://www.waterstones.com/waterstonesweb/products/shane+ross/nick+webb/wasters/7892140/

The Bankers: http://www.waterstones.com/waterstonesweb/products/shane+ross/the+bankers+28ebook29/7370046/

Who Really Runs Ireland: http://www.waterstones.com/waterstonesweb/products/matt+cooper/who+really+runs+ireland3f/7531406/

All of which I own and read (besides more!) - have you Fitzerb?

Keep spinning though from that land of disillusion one seems to be existing in.
Me, I'll stick by the facts I know, experienced for myself and have also learned from others.

Liam Byrne

Fitzerb wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...m-2501868.html

Leo "the Lamb" withdraws his claim of cronysim.

Never let the facts spoil a good rant huh

FACT : Leo "the Lamb" did not withdraw his claim of cronyism.
FACT : Leo qualified his claim of cronyism saying that not all appointments were cronyism, and that some were actually qualified to do the job.

"Not all" and "some" = the claim re the rest still stands.

Never let the facts spoil a good rant huh.

Biggins

Liam Byrne wrote: »

FACT : Leo "the Lamb" did not withdraw his claim of cronyism.
FACT : Leo qualified his claim of cronyism saying that not all appointments were cronyism, and that some were actually qualified to do the job.

"Not all" and "some" = the claim re the rest still stands.

Never let the facts spoil a good rant huh.

...Or also in the case of Fitzerb methodology, a twisted spin on things!

PatsytheNazi

Biggins wrote: »

To be honest, I deeply suspect that FG are or would be just as bad sooner or later at same cronyism.
They certainly have been in the past - which might explain why they are most certainly not raising this issue any further!
- Covering their own ass and fear of been tainted as a party "the pot calling the kettle black"

...The same reason as well in relation to tougher penalties and repayments, why they did not push the expenses issue any further either!

Agreed, FG are just a snotty version of FF. :mad: