Rugby Refereeing

mink_man

Just did my first course in becoming a rugby referee today, I'm told I can touch judge in J1, which is the standard below the AIL and that. Was wondering when I do become able to ref games u-16 etc etc do ya get money from it or is it just travel expenses that are covered?

Tim Robbins

mink_man wrote: »

Just did my first course in becoming a rugby referee today, I'm told I can touch judge in J1, which is the standard below the AIL and that. Was wondering when I do become able to ref games u-16 etc etc do ya get money from it or is it just travel expenses that are covered?

Well done!

You can start referring straight away. When you've done a few games you'll be assessed and if you're ok you'll make it into your branch who will then appoint you for games.

You don't get paid unless you make it to AIL or higher.

Travel expenses are covered.

JustinDee

Great to see!
Enjoy it.

mink_man

well today was a 6 hour course and yer man said we'd be allowed to touch judge in the cup and the J1 league. Do they assign you to games or do you ask to be assigned games?

kensutz

You will be assigned games by the branch. My first game refereeing was assessed which I was happy to have because it gave me an opportunity to iron out flaws instantly. Between injury, postponements and work I haven't been out much this season but there's still quite a bit to do.

JustinDee

Who gave the course? Dave O'Brien?

mink_man

JustinDee wrote: »

Who gave the course? Dave O'Brien?

Ya that's the man, sound man!

I'm only a young referee, being 19. just love rugby and interested in all aspects, I play too.

kensutz

Good age to get into it. I started a thread a few months ago to see how many referees we have on board. It didn't take off as planned sadly but if you have any questions just fire away. There's a few of us here.

mink_man

kensutz wrote: »

Good age to get into it. I started a thread a few months ago to see how many referees we have on board. It didn't take off as planned sadly but if you have any questions just fire away. There's a few of us here.

haha thanks, we got our yellow and red cards today so happy out :P

kensutz

Touch judging tends to get you into a routine by learning from your fellow officials. They should talk you through what they expect and need you to do. Take it in your stride and enjoy.

blindsider

mink_man wrote: »

Ya that's the man, sound man!

I'm only a young referee, being 19. just love rugby and interested in all aspects, I play too.

Were you not told about meetings, being assigned games etc on the course? Might be worth mentioning to someone that you're still playing also.

Best of luck with the reffing - it's not easy, but it's very rewarding and fulfilling!

mink_man

blindsider wrote: »

Were you not told about meetings, being assigned games etc on the course? Might be worth mentioning to someone that you're still playing also.

Best of luck with the reffing - it's not easy, but it's very rewarding and fulfilling!

Ya there's another meeting next thursday
And I told the man that I was currently playing for a club in the very first email I sent.

Tim Robbins

mink_man wrote: »

Ya there's another meeting next thursday
And I told the man that I was currently playing for a club in the very first email I sent.

What you need now is games. Usually the way it works is you do games as an associate ref - U14 and the like.

You get these games yourself or someone will help you get them.

Then you get assessed and then get branch games, J4 , J5 etc.

kensutz

Any update as to how you got on? I'm only back this weekend after the winter freeze which saw 4 weekends more or less wiped out. Todays game was touch and go but with Killarney on the road we didn't want to ruin their journey so had 2 backup pitches available to us. Also another game assessed and was told that I'm doing well and nothing really jumping out to the assessor in terms of faults. Now offered the local clubs the opportunity to give me a call if their underage games are short refs too just so I can get more experience being out and about.

Tim Robbins

kensutz wrote: »

Any update as to how you got on? I'm only back this weekend after the winter freeze which saw 4 weekends more or less wiped out. Todays game was touch and go but with Killarney on the road we didn't want to ruin their journey so had 2 backup pitches available to us. Also another game assessed and was told that I'm doing well and nothing really jumping out to the assessor in terms of faults. Now offered the local clubs the opportunity to give me a call if their underage games are short refs too just so I can get more experience being out and about.

Brilliant well done!

Downtime

Tim Robbins wrote: »

What you need now is games. Usually the way it works is you do games as an associate ref - U14 and the like.

You get these games yourself or someone will help you get them.

Then you get assessed and then get branch games, J4 , J5 etc.

As an FYI there is a huge difference between an associate ref and a branch ref. As mink_man has done a full IRFU referee course he is not going down an associate path.

Tim Robbins

Downtime wrote: »

As an FYI there is a huge difference between an associate ref and a branch ref. As mink_man has done a full IRFU referee course he is not going down an associate path.

Not sure what your point is or who it is addressed to.
But thanks for dropping by :-)

Downtime

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Not sure what your point is or who it is addressed to.
But thanks for dropping by :-)

It was directed to you in relation to your earlier point on pathways. Just wanted to clarify it.

Tim Robbins

Downtime wrote: »

It was directed to you in relation to your earlier point on pathways. Just wanted to clarify it.

Well I am struggling to see what you clarified.

This could be a case of referee's interpretation

mink_man

whats the difference between associate and the full one?

I haven't reffed any games yet, just for u-13s would you check the boots, is there a 1m limit on pushing in the scrum and how much of a gap in the lineout?

Shelflife

My understanding of it is that you are an associate ref until you are assessed and then you are put on the full ref panel.

im an associate ref and im hoping to be assessed soon as ive done a few u13,u15 and u17 games, after that id hope to get a few j2 games later in the season.

Downtime

An associate referee is an adult person (18 years +) who have done an associate referees course - which differs from the IRFU foundation referees course and:

2.1 are qualified and appointed, by a school or club, (to referee a match, or training session) to which they are affiliated
2.2 are qualified and appointed by their school or club (or requested by the Branch) to a 'blitz' or similar tournament in which their school or club is participating
2.3 are not available for appointment to matches by the Branch or Branch Referee Associations / Society

Associate Referees may also apply, if they wish, for full membership of their Provincial Referee Associations/Society.

Once you have done a full foundation course you can referee any club, any age level and then do a trial game for full association membership.

Tim Robbins

Downtime wrote: »

An associate referee is an adult person (18 years +) who have done an associate referees course - which differs from the IRFU foundation referees course and:

2.1 are qualified and appointed, by a school or club, (to referee a match, or training session) to which they are affiliated
2.2 are qualified and appointed by their school or club (or requested by the Branch) to a 'blitz' or similar tournament in which their school or club is participating
2.3 are not available for appointment to matches by the Branch or Branch Referee Associations / Society

Associate Referees may also apply, if they wish, for full membership of their Provincial Referee Associations/Society.

Once you have done a full foundation course you can referee any club, any age level and then do a trial game for full association membership.

That seems the exact same as what I was saying.

mink_man

I think I may be reffing a local u-13 match tomorrow

ca anyone tell me do i look at boots, talk to front rows etc? is it 1m push in scrum and reset to original team in posession if pushed too far?

kensutz

Check boots, offer to talk to the front row although they don't have to take up the offer, 1.5m push.

karlitob

kensutz wrote: »

Check boots, offer to talk to the front row although they don't have to take up the offer, 1.5m push.

They have to take the offer of a talk - you're the ref and what you say goes. I cant imagine a team - let alone under age team - refusing to hear what the referee has to say.

I clearly say
i) I'll ref the game - play the whistle.
ii) No dissent or ungentlemanly conduct. Captains or pack-leaders talk to me only
iii) Front rows, follow my commands and square hit
iv) Scrum halfs - put the ball in straight
v) Rucks - follow my commands, from behind the last mans foot, in through the gate, cpmete as much as you want.
v) High tackles, retaliation - zero!!!
vi) You've been warned. No excuses. I will penalise.


Takes 2 mins. Is very clear and works a treat for me.

Shelflife

Three questions.

1. How do you cope with the constant sniping from the sideline, esp at underage matches when the laws knowledge on the sideline is poor to say the least. (it can be hard to ignore it at times)

2.how do you cope or do any of you suffer from ringing in the ears after a game as a result of the constant whistling.

3.do you allow much more leeway at u13/u15 games as they are still only learning.

kensutz

1. It's down to self control and concentration. If you can keep concentrating on what you're doing, don't mind what they shout on the sideline. You will get both sides trying to get one over on the refs to gain advantage from penalties etc.

2. I reffed 2 games today and no side effects at all. Did a fair bit of blowing up during the second game but still no ringing.

3. It's a tough one. You try to coach the players along but at the same time keep on top of things.

castie

Shelflife wrote: »

Three questions.

1. How do you cope with the constant sniping from the sideline, esp at underage matches when the laws knowledge on the sideline is poor to say the least. (it can be hard to ignore it at times)

2.how do you cope or do any of you suffer from ringing in the ears after a game as a result of the constant whistling.

3.do you allow much more leeway at u13/u15 games as they are still only learning.

For 1.
I would think you can warn the sideline (coaches and players now im assuming) other than shouts from them youll grow some thick skin pretty quickly I would bet. This would actually annoy me into penalising the team even more though.

Tim Robbins

Shelflife wrote: »

Three questions.

1. How do you cope with the constant sniping from the sideline, esp at underage matches when the laws knowledge on the sideline is poor to say the least. (it can be hard to ignore it at times)

Do your best to ignore them. The players are your responsibility.

There are two approaches you can take if you have to do something.

The Serious approach

1. Ask them to stop
2. Warn them they will be reported to the branch.
3. Ask them to leave the technical area / playing area.
4. Report them.

If you don't feel like doing this yourself, ask the match organiser or coaches to do it. Whoever you communicate with do so clearly and calmly. If you loose control things will really go hay wire.

The Light hearted banter approach
You can also try something a bit smart ars-y like suggest that they ref the second half. But don't do this unless you are comfortable engaging in some light hearted banter and do it in a calm way - not confrontational. Or you could ask the person shouting the loudest at you, to shout a bit louder.

2.how do you cope or do any of you suffer from ringing in the ears after a game as a result of the constant whistling.

Sadly, this is more and more common place and the reason why people give up reffing.

I have been with the branch a few years now. After you've been assessed and get given a few 3/5, 2/5 for technical things, you mind focussess more and more on technical things. And you become immune to the nonsense you are describing. But it takes a thick skin. Assessors can be tough and be very picky on things that are subjective.

3.do you allow much more leeway at u13/u15 games as they are still only learning.

If a player says anything to you at this level penalise them.

Allow a bit more leeway to teams on technical things. Use judgement. This level is more about participation and learning than getting hammered 100 - 0 and giving up rugby the following week.

Lyaiera

I decided to bump an old thread instead of starting a new one on a fairly specific topic.

I've lost a good bit of weight, and started my attempts to get fit. Long term, aside from improving my health on the medical standpoint I'd be looking at refereeing. I'd be in no condition to do so now, but I think it's definitely something I could focus on for the long term.

So the question is. What kind of fitness levels do you need to ref? I know the answer is "very fit" so I'm wondering what the ref's on here do for their fitness routine. My immediate plan is to do the Couch to 5k programme. At the end of two months being able to run 5k and/or go nonstop for 30 minutes.

I did play a bit as a teenager, and as an observer I know the speed and type of game varies hugely. So you could have a game that's dominated by forwards eking out two metre gains to something that goes end to end continuously. And most games a mixture of both. What type of tests do people have to make sure they're up to scratch? What pace do you expect yourself to keep and how do you ensure you don't slip behind?

Teferi

I'm honestly not too sure you'd have to be really fit, especially if you're dipping your toe in at the casual levels. There are a lot of fat and old refs that find it hard to keep up with the speed although they do alright at the reffing bit. Obviously you'd need to up your fitness for higher levels but I think you'd only need a general level of fitness initially.

ormond lad

Lyaiera wrote: »

I decided to bump an old thread instead of starting a new one on a fairly specific topic.

I've lost a good bit of weight, and started my attempts to get fit. Long term, aside from improving my health on the medical standpoint I'd be looking at refereeing. I'd be in no condition to do so now, but I think it's definitely something I could focus on for the long term.

So the question is. What kind of fitness levels do you need to ref? I know the answer is "very fit" so I'm wondering what the ref's on here do for their fitness routine. My immediate plan is to do the Couch to 5k programme. At the end of two months being able to run 5k and/or go nonstop for 30 minutes.

I did play a bit as a teenager, and as an observer I know the speed and type of game varies hugely. So you could have a game that's dominated by forwards eking out two metre gains to something that goes end to end continuously. And most games a mixture of both. What type of tests do people have to make sure they're up to scratch? What pace do you expect yourself to keep and how do you ensure you don't slip behind?

You need to have a decent level of fitness but it will depend on what level you are reffing at.
I reffed my first ever game during the week. It was an u13/14s schools game and in the 50mins i ran a few kms obv the distance you will run will depend on whether you will be reffing underage, j4 or AIL.
There was another game between the same schools at the same agegroup on the pitch next to my game and the ref wouldnt have ran anything near as much as I did.
Keep up with every play and ensure if you can for all games to have somebody running the line as touchjudge as I didnt have any TJs and had a few issues with that

Lyaiera

ormond lad wrote: »

You need to have a decent level of fitness but it will depend on what level you are reffing at.
I reffed my first ever game during the week. It was an u13/14s schools game and in the 50mins i ran a few kms obv the distance you will run will depend on whether you will be reffing underage, j4 or AIL.
There was another game between the same schools at the same agegroup on the pitch next to my game and the ref wouldnt have ran anything near as much as I did.
Keep up with every play and ensure if you can for all games to have somebody running the line as touchjudge as I didnt have any TJs and had a few issues with that

I'm not a ref, yet. I hadn't run in years, unless I was late for a train, up until today. I just remember playing u13 games and a having a ref who would still be on the half way line if a winger scored from a break on their own 22 and they never seemed to leave the space in between the two 22s. I just don't want to be that referee. :P

JustinDee

Set yourself the minimum required level of fitness. This determines your own goal in which level you'd wish to aspire to.
Use the role to get fitter. Do it the other way then you're already setting limits and settling for them.

kensutz

Lyaiera wrote: »

So the question is. What kind of fitness levels do you need to ref? I know the answer is "very fit" so I'm wondering what the ref's on here do for their fitness routine. My immediate plan is to do the Couch to 5k programme. At the end of two months being able to run 5k and/or go nonstop for 30 minutes.

You don't need to be extremely fit starting off. Get yourself running on your programme and then continue to fit in a jog or 2 a week. Ask your club if you can use their facilities to get fit while becoming affiliated with them. While doing that you can work on the knowledge of the laws. Go to your local club and watch games at different levels and look at the referee and how much work he is doing. It will vary between age levels and grades.

I've been doing lots of training the past 2 seasons but all that has been cut short because of health issues and forced me to stop for the time being. Once I get the all clear I'm back on the rugby pitch. I'd happily referee 7 days a week if needed (although the selection process begs to differ).

donalmoore

on average you will do between 4 and 5k over the course of a game, if you can jog 5k reasonably comfortably you will be fine, its more about having enough oxygen in the brain to make a decision when you arrive at the scene.

other than that work on your positioning for different parts of the pitch, if a team is at their opponents try line you want to be behind the try line to make a possible decision.

At J4/J5 the fitness of the players is pretty poor for the most part, youths will challenge you on fitness becasue they can run all day as can the student J4 teams ie. tcd and ucd.

I'd recommend that you work as much on the laws and more importantly their application. the main problem starting out is that you will know the laws better than the players but they won't agree. You will find yourself having to deal with a twenty stone prop who thinks you are holding him back from playing like brian o'driscoll and you'll need to be fit to have the wind to send him off.:D

Tim Robbins

Lyaiera wrote: »

I decided to bump an old thread instead of starting a new one on a fairly specific topic.

I've lost a good bit of weight, and started my attempts to get fit. Long term, aside from improving my health on the medical standpoint I'd be looking at refereeing. I'd be in no condition to do so now, but I think it's definitely something I could focus on for the long term.

So the question is. What kind of fitness levels do you need to ref? I know the answer is "very fit" so I'm wondering what the ref's on here do for their fitness routine. My immediate plan is to do the Couch to 5k programme. At the end of two months being able to run 5k and/or go nonstop for 30 minutes.

I did play a bit as a teenager, and as an observer I know the speed and type of game varies hugely. So you could have a game that's dominated by forwards eking out two metre gains to something that goes end to end continuously. And most games a mixture of both. What type of tests do people have to make sure they're up to scratch? What pace do you expect yourself to keep and how do you ensure you don't slip behind?

Fitness is really important. You need to get the breakdown quickly, see the ball and then back paddle out and set up a view for a scan.

If you are not fit your concentration goes and then you miss things. But the branch will help you out with your fitness - for example doing interval training is more relevant than pumping out 10K runs.

If you want to move thru the ranks fitness is a major major thing.
But even doing J4 you need to be reasonably fit.

Dietsquirt

Hi folks, no point in starting a new thread, i'll try and revive this one. I'm interested in becoming a referee, although i'm a big fan of rugby, i've never reffed at any level. I'm 29 years old and my question really is, am i too old to start getting in to this? I have contacted my local development officer by email and i'll hopefully hear back from him. I am fairly fit.
How long will it be until i can start reffing at J 1-4 level? (obviously if i meet the requirements).

thanks

gaius c

Dietsquirt wrote: »

Hi folks, no point in starting a new thread, i'll try and revive this one. I'm interested in becoming a referee, although i'm a big fan of rugby, i've never reffed at any level. I'm 29 years old and my question really is, am i too old to start getting in to this? I have contacted my local development officer by email and i'll hopefully hear back from him. I am fairly fit.
How long will it be until i can start reffing at J 1-4 level? (obviously if i meet the requirements).

thanks

You'll probably start with underage games and be assessed at that level before you can get adult games. There's also something of a glut of refs at the moment so it's actually quite difficult to progress up the ranks.

CatFromHue

I'd say most refs don't start until they get to your age, certainly I don't remember having that many (if any) refs under 30.

Losty Dublin

My cousin in law was accredited into the Ulster Referee's association last year and he is in his early 50's; 29 is a good age to take it up. Dietsquirt, are you a member of any club?

The Lost Sheep

Dietsquirt wrote: »

Hi folks, no point in starting a new thread, i'll try and revive this one. I'm interested in becoming a referee, although i'm a big fan of rugby, i've never reffed at any level. I'm 29 years old and my question really is, am i too old to start getting in to this? I have contacted my local development officer by email and i'll hopefully hear back from him. I am fairly fit.
How long will it be until i can start reffing at J 1-4 level? (obviously if i meet the requirements).

thanks

I did the associate course sometime last season and did the full course a few weeks ago. No you are not too old at all.
Get into your local club and ref games. You will start at underage like gaius_c says and depending on how you do in those games and you will be assessed at times you will either progress up the grades from u13s/14s/15s to u16s/17s/18s/19s and then to J1-4. Ive reffed up to under 18 so far.
Any Q's just post and I'll try answer.

gaius c wrote: »

You'll probably start with underage games and be assessed at that level before you can get adult games. There's also something of a glut of refs at the moment so it's actually quite difficult to progress up the ranks.

What province is their a glut? From what ive heard all provinces all looking for referee's in big way especially Connacht

Hagz

I've always wondered what level of fitness is required.

f1dan

http://www.warura.rugbynet.com.au/verve/_resources/Website_41_IRB_Referee_Physical_Monitor_Guidelines_2012_(final)_.pdf

Dietsquirt

Losty Dublin wrote: »

My cousin in law was accredited into the Ulster Referee's association last year and he is in his early 50's; 29 is a good age to take it up. Dietsquirt, are you a member of any club?

Hi Losty, i'm not in a club unfortunately. There are numerous rugby clubs in my area though. Fair play to your cousin-in-law, 50 years old, that's great!

eyescreamcone

I have a question for Rugby refs everywhere:

If an onrushing player charges down a fullbacks clearing kick - he can run on and score. Technically this is a knock on, but is allowed in this instance?
Ok - so it's allowed in this instance - how close does the blocker have to be to the kicker for it not to be judged a knock on?

Obviously if he's 20 m away it's a knock on and if he's a foot away it's not - so where is the border between the two??



Mods - if this post is in the wrong thread I'll happily move it.

The Lost Sheep

eyescreamcone wrote: »

I have a question for Rugby refs everywhere:

If an onrushing player charges down a fullbacks clearing kick - he can run on and score. Technically this is a knock on, but is allowed in this instance?
Ok - so it's allowed in this instance - how close does the blocker have to be to the kicker for it not to be judged a knock on?

Obviously if he's 20 m away it's a knock on and if he's a foot away it's not - so where is the border between the two??

If you block a kick with your hands it is not a knock on. You cannot foot block a kick. The blocker will have to come from an onside position so depending if their was a ruck/maul or open play there is different offside lines

eyescreamcone

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

If you block a kick with your hands it is not a knock on. You cannot foot block a kick. The blocker will have to come from an onside position so depending if their was a ruck/maul or open play there is different offside lines

Take the offside out of it.
How close to the kicker do you have to be to have it considered a block and therefore not a knock on?
If you were 5m away I think this would be regarded as a knock on??

Losty Dublin

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Take the offside out of it.
How close to the kicker do you have to be to have it considered a block and therefore not a knock on?
If you were 5m away I think this would be regarded as a knock on??

So long as you block down the kick then it's a block down and it's fine, be you 1 foot or 10 metres away from the kicker.

eyescreamcone

Losty Dublin wrote: »

So long as you block down the kick then it's a block down and it's fine, be you 1 foot or 10 metres away from the kicker.

It's a block down if you have your hands above your head?
Distance from the kicker is irrelevant?