Irish Dj Industry Association

jtsuited

Just rumbled the guy on facebook. Topic deleted after I pointed out that in no place on their website did the PPI say they were coming after DJs for licences.

It was a scam to get people to like his page.

SteveDon

Am I the only person not on facebook these days?

jtsuited

probably. steve we have great craic on it. get an account just to view this fiasco.

Scubadevils

Huh?

jtsuited

story goes.....this guy (IDJA) was saying on his facebook that some new rule was coming into effect that meant djs had to pay the PPI 200 euro per year or something otherwise they'd have their gear confiscated.
Everyone went mental, but nobody actually asked for the source. When I did, he pointed me to the ppi website, which has a section called 'who has to pay'.
Since Djs were not listed (and believe me the list was thorough), I figured something was indeed fishy, and copied and pasted the whole thing to his facebook discussion. Literally two minutes later the whole thing was deleted.

Scubadevils

jtsuited wrote: »

story goes.....this guy (IDJA) was saying on his facebook that some new rule was coming into effect that meant djs had to pay the PPI 200 euro per year or something otherwise they'd have their gear confiscated.
Everyone went mental, but nobody actually asked for the source. When I did, he pointed me to the ppi website, which has a section called 'who has to pay'.
Since Djs were not listed (and believe me the list was thorough), I figured something was indeed fishy, and copied and pasted the whole thing to his facebook discussion. Literally two minutes later the whole thing was deleted.

So he went to all that trouble to get people to view or like his page? Jesus people are fckin sad.

SteveDon

jtsuited wrote: »

probably. steve we have great craic on it. get an account just to view this fiasco.

NEVER!!

Ill probably create an account for a music page for a new alias im working on, but im really not comfortable putting myself up under my own name, something about it freaks me out, prefer to keep my private life exactly that, private.

jtsuited

check it all out here......
unfortunately and conveniently you must like the group in order to comment (which I think is the whole idea behind this particular event)

http://www.facebook.com/idjia

was.deevey

Maybe I've just been out of the game a lil long but am I right in thinking that now there are three bodies that need to be paid ? IRMA / IMRO and PPI ?

jtsuited

was.deevey wrote: »

Maybe I've just been out of the game a lil long but am I right in thinking that now there are three bodies that need to be paid ? IRMA / IMRO and PPI ?

just Imro and PPI. And djs have to pay nobody.

interestingly IDJIA said initially the PPI website stated that djs had to pay some 200 euro thingy, but when I pointed out that nowhere on their site did it say that, the story changed to 'we had meetings with the ppi before christmas'.

jonnny68

Good for you Jeffrey jaysus i cant believe they came out with this crap.

jtsuited

this is really annoying.
first off, the guy seems barely literate but tries to be some sort of Will Self.

Secondly, after being rumbled, he's still at it.
It's a scam pure and simple that begins and ends with this IDJIA guy.

jtess

jtsuited wrote: »

Just rumbled the guy on facebook. Topic deleted after I pointed out that in no place on their website did the PPI say they were coming after DJs for licences.

It was a scam to get people to like his page.

No it's genuine , don't forget that this association is registered unlike others whom are up the walls wondering what the PPi is at... well get over it & if you were registered djs you wouldn't be putting the idjia down but backing it.
When the PPI come knocking on your door you wish you had listened to the idjia instead of creating panic amongst yourselves. Ring the PPI on monday and ask them why this law being introduced.

gsparx

SteveDon wrote: »

NEVER!!

Ill probably create an account for a music page for a new alias im working on, but im really not comfortable putting myself up under my own name, something about it freaks me out, prefer to keep my private life exactly that, private.

I completely agree with you. Unfortunately it's not possible if you want an official Facebook music page. It's not like myspace where you can just have a music page.
You have to have a personal page to have a music page.
Although you could make your personal page your music page. They work differently though, for eg you can only have two word name, like a regular person.
On top of that the Facebook music player hasn't worked properly for over a year. At least on Safari, IE and Camino.

Chloroplast

Facebook started removing peoples accounts who had their artist name on their account, they wanted all artist/music heads to make a like/fan page for themselves and to only use their real name for their profile.

this was to stop those artists from mass mailing/spamming everyone, where as with a fan/like page you cant do that. for those of us who use our real name as our artist name, it makes no difference.

if you want to make a facebook fan page without registering an account, just get a friend to make a page for you and get them to share his/her account.

Chloroplast

SteveDon wrote: »

Am I the only person not on facebook these days?

i had one, i disabled it. got sick of finding out what X person was having for dinner, of where Y person was going after eastenders, enough to drive ye up the fukin walls now....

Zascar

What a farse. Lets all just keep putting comments saying he's a tosser and no one believe him..

ED E

Comments deleted again.

electrogrimey

I just reported the Facebook page. I'm not scared of this bloke, but I want to see some bad shit happen him at least.

electrogrimey

This guy is ridiculous. Check out this email I just got.

Zascar

Ooooh 7 Members! Frankie you'd want to be well scared.

old gregg

sorry folks, as someone who is not a dj, is there any credence to what he's about or is it all a complete scam? I can see he's trying to scare folks with the licence fees and stuff, but is there any substance to anything he's about? Just curious as an Außenseiter

jtsuited

erm, the guy's about 2 steps away from libelling me, so let's see where this goes.

also, anyone think he sounds very very like leggo?

Zascar

What have we missed? Fill us in..

Anything we can do to help the cause or just piss him off more?

jtsuited

old gregg wrote: »

sorry folks, as someone who is not a dj, is there any credence to what he's about or is it all a complete scam? I can see he's trying to scare folks with the licence fees and stuff, but is there any substance to anything he's about? Just curious as an Außenseiter

nope. nothing he says seems to have any basis in fact.

jtsuited

Zascar wrote: »

What have we missed? Fill us in..

Anything we can do to help the cause or just piss him off more?

Everyone just go to his page and ask why he is spreading baseless lies about the PPI.

jtsuited

jonnny68 wrote: »

Good for you Jeffrey jaysus i cant believe they came out with this crap.

haha jonny, my anal-retentive attention to detail finally yields something good!!;)

Buttercake

Hello All,

I work as a DJ and I approached the association late last year when I saw it on facebook. I, like many, wanted to know more about it and have since helped the guys in their setup.

A couple of points to note

1. A DJ association
A DJ association has been mooted by myself and others in the industry for the past 5 years, there have been a couple of attempts by others but have failed due to lack of interest or generally not bothering to take it further.

There is a massive requirement for a DJ association, there are associations for electricians, funeral directors, helicopter pilots, taxis and florists so its about time an association was setup for DJs. As someone working for the past 10years, lately, I have seen a dramatic increase in the number of individuals touting themselves as DJs and with the onset of the recession even more people have seen it as an easy way to make money, that's fair enough but the problem is that some of these guys don't know what they are doing and are offering their services for weddings/corporate events and parties and turning up with a couple of powered speakers and a laptop.

There have been horror stories of customers having bad experiences(not even turning up, failed equipment, no interaction or personality) with some of these guys which lowers the reputation of those trying to make a living and giving a professional DJ service and experience. There is also a pricing issue when some guys with a listing on gumtree charge €100 for a gig or some lad charging €15 per hour(http://www.gumtree.ie/dublin/62/67367162.html) and thus confusing customers about pricing, we always get into conversations with customers "Why is he charging only €100 and you €300?". Its like any other industry which is unregulated, there are a lot of cowboys out there and by having an association which members will have to meet certain criteria (references, experience, right equipment and lighting) and adhere to a code of practice and respect amongst other members, it will at least give the general public a place for them to see a directory of professional DJs.

No one has to join the association if they don't want to and it will be open to everyone, from those doing a gig every now and again to the ones working every weekend.

2. The PPI
The PPI have been working for the past number of years regarding this dubbing fee for DJs, this is nothing new and the association has been setup in response to the PPI, which will be introducing the fee on Feb 1st. The fee is reportedly €200, and of course there are a huge number of questions that are been asked in response to this and what exactly constitutes a "track" that a DJ is playing at a gig?

- Mixes creates on a computer?,
- Music purchased from itunes/beatport/7didgital?
- Pre-purchase mixes?
- One DJ has 10,000 tracks and 1 has 100 tracks are they the same?
- Creating duplicate CDs so not to damage original?

The reality is that they are actively going to venues at random and confiscating gear. I was told that if the DJ has the original CD in their collection while they are out gigging, they won't have any of their gear confiscated, if they have a load of copied CDs then they will. When I first got involved in the association, I was told the guys were working with the PPI to get a reduced rate for DJs that comply.

We are hoping to have a meeting with the PPI soon to address these concerns amongst others.

3. The Association
A point to note is that this association's ethos is to provide a representative organisation for DJs. To promote professionalism amongst its members and an outlet for customers to view registered members, like most associations out there.

There are many issues out there regaridng the indutrsy that the assocaiiton willl hoppe to address, but this is an assocaiiton, not a legislative body and it is not an exact science, the number of resources in the first year will be limited but it will endevour to work with politicans(and current opposiiton) to create a more workable industry for all. There is the current vat rate of 21% that DJs registered as businesses have to pay instead of 13.5% that the association are trying to negotiate. These are all matter that we can address but we cannot guarantee their outcome. With more members, it will strengthen the association but comments on facebook and boards that create hysteria or idle gossip amongst the DJs are divisive and will do no-one any favours.

The association was founded late last year after word go out about the PPI introducing this new dubbing fee, the founder registered the website and put up a holding page and some social network pages. As the website is not finished and we are completing the manifesto and as December was a hectic month, we are now getting the association back on track. The reason why the facebook page was setup initially is to promote the association and spread the word. It has nothing to do with the number of likes or friends! or spamming or a scam?!, if 10 people or 1000 people like it, it makes no difference, its about using facebook as a medium to spread the word around... scam?! did you hand over any money?!

There are a lot of DJs out there in all shapes and sizes, from clubs to weddings, the aim of this association is to provide those DJs who wish to build a career as a DJ or those who want to start their own agency or those who work every now and again. but fundamentally only those who provide an excellent service and have the right gear and systems in place will be members.

The current members are based all over Ireland and we are working on our manifesto after the Christmas/New Years period and hope to publish it soon, the website will be finished then and we will take membership applications soon.

If you have any constructive comments on the page and this topic and if you do have any questions about the association or would like to become involved, please email: info@idjia.ie or send me a PM

Thanks

electrogrimey

Please ignore the above post. An email from the PPI regarding the IDJIA has been made public, expressing the following points:

The IDJIA has no connection to the PPI, so any claims that they are 'working together' are false.

The PPI say nothing about confiscating equipment, and merely said they might make public a list of DJs who have paid the fee so venues can check themselves.

This fee is only payable by those who want to make copies of music, which is prohibited by Irish law. Therefore the claim by the IDJIA that 'all DJs must pay' is false.

Buttercake

electrogrimey wrote: »

Please ignore the above post. An email from the PPI regarding the IDJIA has been made public, expressing the following points:

The IDJIA has no connection to the PPI, so any claims that they are 'working together' are false.

The PPI say nothing about confiscating equipment, and merely said they might make public a list of DJs who have paid the fee so venues can check themselves.

This fee is only payable by those who want to make copies of music, which is prohibited by Irish law. Therefore the claim by the IDJIA that 'all DJs must pay' is false.

Ok, When I got involved in this, I was told that the IDJIA had telephone conversations with the PPI and met the PPI in Portlaoise last year to address these concerns and the fee, the term "working with" is not the same as "working together", working with implies negotiating between parties to resolve a problem and which is still ongoing.

I was told by different sources that they were confiscating equipment, they have 2 inspectors that visit venues, that's 2 for the country and copied CDs were removed. True or not? I don't know, ask the PPI or the DJ and I can hardly see them going into a venue and telling someone to stop playing and walking out again

The dubbing fee(as i've been told) is payable by those who don't have the original CD copy as per the post above. If you do have the original CD and all your CDs are original purchases then you don't pay the dubbing fee.

My points above have not been answered by the PPI regarding mixes and purcahsed music from iTunes, Beatport, 7digital etc, which are not recognised by the PPI

electrogrimey

Buttercake wrote: »

Ok, When I got involved in this, I was told that the IDJIA had telephone conversations with the PPI and met the PPI in Portlaoise last year to address these concerns and the fee, the term "working with" is not the same as "working together", working with implies negotiating between parties to resolve a problem and which is still ongoing.

I was told by different sources that they were confiscating equipment, they have 2 inspectors that visit venues, that's 2 for the country and copied CDs were removed. True or not? I don't know, ask the PPI or the DJ and I can hardly see them going into a venue and telling someone to stop playing and walking out again

The dubbing fee(as i've been told) is payable by those who don't have the original CD copy as per the post above. If you do have the original CD and all your CDs are original purchases then you don't pay the dubbing fee.

My points above have not been answered by the PPI regarding mixes and purcahsed music from iTunes, Beatport, 7digital etc, which are not recognised by the PPI

So you're 'helping' these guys, yet you don't have the first idea what they're on about?

The PPI directly said they have literally no memory of an IDJIA.

My feeling is that the IDJIA were hoping to scare people into believing they were an official organisation, and getting people to pay them believing they would pass it on to the PPI, and then running off to Mexico.

Buttercake

electrogrimey wrote: »

So you're 'helping' these guys, yet you don't have the first idea what they're on about?

The PPI directly said they have literally no memory of an IDJIA.

My feeling is that the IDJIA were hoping to scare people into believing they were an official organisation, and getting people to pay them believing they would pass it on to the PPI, and then running off to Mexico.

Well I'm only going on what i've been told, the PPI itself is a draconian organisation with very limited resources, I was told of the meeting with 2 of their representatives and the IDJIA in Portlaosie (they are based in Cork), I gave them my concerns and I got no feedback from the PPI sayign that legally downloaded music was not covered and therefore I would have to pay the fee so i'm going to arrange a meeting with them next month.

Regarding the associaiton becoming offical, it will need recognition which the founder as already been in discussions already with the Minister of Sports & Arts(and the opposition), the organisation will become incorporated as an limited entity with transparency to its members regardless of anything, this was one of my stipulations for working with them when i met them last year.

Any dubbing licence fee will be paid to the PPI directly, why would an association get the fee??

I'm a a member of the IIA but I don't pay them for my website hosting

The DJ association will provide information resources inter alia to its members including details of the PPI but what the members do with that information is their own volition, if you are a member of the association you have not paid any dubbing licence fee

electrogrimey

Buttercake wrote: »

The DJ association will provide information resources inter alia to its members including details of the PPI but what the members do with that information is their own volition, if you are a member of the association you have not paid any dubbing licence fee

All information so far provided by the IDJIA has been purposely false, and any real information posted on the Facebook site has been deleted, including quotes from the website of the PPI. Please explain that.

Also, the meeting you were 'told of' never happened, according to the PPI.

Buttercake

electrogrimey wrote: »

All information so far provided by the IDJIA has been purposely false, and any real information posted on the Facebook site has been deleted, including quotes from the website of the PPI. Please explain that.

Also, the meeting you were 'told of' never happened, according to the PPI.

I have not been working on this association since Nov last year as i was working all through Christmas. The facebook page has been managed by someone else and i never looked at it until last Friday

Unless there is an email from the PPI stating that no one from their organisation met anyone from the IDJIA in portloaise last year then I will take it that there was a meeting

Riesen_Meal

Buttercake wrote: »

I have not been working on this association since Nov last year as i was working all through Christmas. The facebook page has been managed by someone else and i never looked at it until last Friday

Unless there is an email from the PPI stating that no one from their organisation met anyone from the IDJIA in portloaise last year then I will take it that there was a meeting

Thanks for your input Bernard

Anyhow, someone on another forum mailed the PPI, and got the following responses :

Hi *******

Not sure exactly where this information came from but it’s only partly correct. PPI and MCPS have come together to set up a joint licensing scheme whereby by professional DJs can legally copy their music collection onto a digital storage device such as a portable hard drive, laptop, MP3 player or iPod, for use as either backup copies or to allow the DJ to carry his/her entire music collection to gigs more easily. It is not widely known but under Irish copyright legislation, it is actually unlawful to make a copy of a copyright musical work for any reason (other than under certain very strict circumstances) even if you own the original. So this is a way for professional DJs to keep within the law, copyright-wise.


The scheme has not yet come into operation, and we have not yet set a date, although the terms of the scheme have been lodged with the Controller of Patents, Designs & Trademarks, the civil servant charged with overseeing the activities of the various copyright agencies in Ireland. The annual fee will be €200 plus VAT @ 21% (€242) but the first year fee will be €400 plus VAT @ 21% (€484). The higher first year fee is designed to take into account the retrospective licensing of a professional DJ’s already copied library of music, and it covers an unlimited number of tracks. Thereafter the fee will be €200 (adjusted annually in line with CPI) plus VAT. However, as a special introductory offer, we will waive the first year loading of €200 for any professional DJ who signs up to the scheme in the first 6 months of its operation, the first year fee will be €200 plus VAT.


We have registered a website http://www.proDJ.com which, once live, will have full details of the scheme, and copies of the application forms for download. We are also considering putting up the names and contact details of all professional DJs licensed under the scheme, to enable venue owners to check to see if their DJ is using legal music, but this will only be done with the express permission of the licensed DJs.


I hope this helps to clarify things a bit, but if there’s anything else you’d like to know, please don’t hesitate to get in touch.


Kind regards


Sean Murtagh
Head of Operations
PPI

To which the person (roughly) replied :
I posed a few follow up questions asking how exactly they were going to enforce this, and if they have a way of telling an original mp3 from a copied mp3, I also asked him about if they had any contact from IDJIA - to which his response was :

We have had discussions with a couple of groups claiming to represent DJs but I have to say I’m not 100% certain if the Irish DJ Association was one of them (so many different names and acronyms!). In any event, nothing came of those discussions and we don’t have any links or arrangements with any organisation purporting to represent DJs.



If a DJ plays only MP3 files downloaded legally, then the proposed licence will not be necessary. Our advice in this instance would be to make sure you keep a record of all your purchases. As for making the assumption you mention, we haven’t quite worked out all the mechanics of administering the scheme yet, so I can’t give you a definitive answer on that. But it is probably fair to say that an awful lot of professional DJs use digital copies, either to archive their libraries or on play-out devices. If a DJ can show us that he/she uses only original discs and or legally downloaded digital files, then fair enough, we’ve no problem with that.

jtsuited

buttercake, the guy couldn't be a worse representative regarding government. He's repeatedly been exposed as lying, his command of English is beyond bad, and he generally just seems like a clueless individual spreading false information in the hope he can make a living out of it.

jtsuited

haha Fieldog!!!! case closed!!

Buttercake

Fieldog wrote: »

We have had discussions with a couple of groups claiming to represent DJs but I have to say I’m not 100% certain if the Irish DJ Association was one of them (so many different names and acronyms!). In any event, nothing came of those discussions and we don’t have any links or arrangements with any organisation purporting to represent DJs.

Sorry, this response is no proof that they did or did not meet with the IDJIA. I have heard of this guy Sean on numerous occasions from the guys working on the IDJIA

Fieldog wrote: »

(so many different names and acronyms!)

How many representative bodies of DJs as he met exactly?

Everything else in that email is included in my points made today

The principles I laid out in my first post are the reasons I wanted to get involved with this association, I've been approached before about setting these DJ associations up and they always fail, one of the reasons is trying to deal with a such a wide community on a voluntary basis. From the conversations I've had with the founder, he has the intentions to start a proper association and contacts in these places.

I think this discussion is based around the founder and comments instead of the need for an association for DJs regardless of the PPI.... which is a seperate issue as far as i'm concerned

cheesemaker

Fire fi di Irish Dj Association

Riesen_Meal

Buttercake wrote: »

Sorry, this response is no proof that they did or did not meet with the IDJIA. I have heard of this guy Sean on numerous occasions from the guys working on the IDJIA

How many representative bodies of DJs as he met exactly?

Well im sure the "Head of Operations" has a fair amount of input to the PPI in fairness Bernard.....

It does not say in the email as stated above who has or has not met with the PPI, im sure theres more then one crowd trying to salvage a few squid from this one....

Anyhow, sure ive nothing to worry about personally as I think this is all a bit of a joke, I BUY my music, or get sent it for free in a lot of cases.... so im fine!

jtsuited

fieldog there's no way that's bernard. the grammar is far too good to be him.

Riesen_Meal

jtsuited wrote: »

fieldog there's no way that's bernard. the grammar is far too good to be him.

Actually Jeff, think your right, see post Bernard left me in my FB inbox :

Yea & what are u gonna do about it... Do us all a favor & grow up or just give me your details so me & you can meet up but that wont happen yea yellow freak.

That guys grammar is far superior, or he discovered an online grammar check....

Buttercake

Fieldog wrote: »

Well im sure the "Head of Operations" has a fair amount of input to the PPI in fairness Bernard.....

It does not say in the email as stated above who has or has not met with the PPI, im sure theres more then one crowd trying to salvage a few squid from this one....

Anyhow, sure ive nothing to worry about personally as I think this is all a bit of a joke, I BUY my music, or get sent it for free in a lot of cases.... so im fine!

my names not Bernard if thats directed at me?, I'm not the founder of this IDJIA

and I don't think this guy as head of operations has a clue to be honest. "So many acroynms!" seriously... I havent heard of any other DJ quangos out there but I would be delighted to hear of even one more of the many he deals with and he posted a link to a DJ Store in the States too (prodj.com) and their site prodj.ie is not even built

They will introduce the charge on Feb 1st but i would be very surprised if the website was up and running with any information for DJs on it

Buttercake

Fieldog wrote: »

Actually Jeff, think your right, see post Bernard left me in my FB inbox :

Yea & what are u gonna do about it... Do us all a favor & grow up or just give me your details so me & you can meet up but that wont happen yea yellow freak.

That guys grammar is far superior, or he discovered an online grammar check....

Who is sending those messages?, seriously

jtsuited

the founder of the IDJIA. Just so you know what's in store for you when he is let near a politician representing the association. I'm sure he'll ooze credibility and intelligence.

cheesemaker

Even if any of this was ligit, which it clearly isn't (AGAIN)

The whole idea is ridiculous in first place. I've yet to see anyone other then the seven man crew get on board.

Wasters

Buttercake

cheesemaker wrote: »

Even if any of this was ligit, which it clearly isn't (AGAIN)

The whole idea is ridiculous in first place. I've yet to see anyone other then the seven man crew get on board.

Wasters

Well the idea for a DJ association is not ridiculous in any respect. I think there has been some crosswires with the PPI and the IDJIA or communication and maybe the IDJIA founder is getting a bit emotional, but theres no call for abusive messages etc

you might be right though

This is the 3rd time in the past 10years that someone has started a DJ association, the last guy wanted to do an awards ceremony and that failed, the guy before that wasn't bothered at all

Riesen_Meal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8PhzrmBgMI

IDJIA - Bad Idea

copeyhagen

am i the only one thats had a facebook ****

gsparx

So, correct me if I'm wrong but, if you purchase and download an MP3 and play it in public you're a model, law abiding citizen.
However, if you purchase a CD and convert the tracks to MP3's on your computer and play one out, you're breaking the law.
You can get around this "illegal activity" by paying €200/ 400 + VAT in advance to the PPI.
:rolleyes:
God bless the music industry.
Cue the "just play vinyl" posts.

gsparx

Fieldog wrote: »

It is not widely known but under Irish copyright legislation, it is actually unlawful to make a copy of a copyright musical work for any reason (other than under certain very strict circumstances) even if you own the original.

Actually, according to Sean at PPI, it goes further. Simply ripping the CD you bought to your computer constitutes an illegal act!