Selecting the right bull for a cow

RobinBanks

Hello All,

I only recently discovered this forum and I have really enjoyed reading all the threads so far. I am a part time farmer and have a huge interest in cattle. So this thread is a follow on from the 1000 euro weanling thread, and I have a couple of questions for the experts. So to the OP of that thread sorry for butting in!

I have 12 cows, 7 red LM (mainly R grade, 1 U grade), 2 black LM (R grade), 2 CH (U grade) and 1 BB (R grade). I am trying to produce weanlings for the export market. So far I have not been able to produce a U or E grade calf. Well maybe last year I had one, a BB bull calf out of BYU and a black LM cow. I only got 320 along with his weight at the sale though.

Most of the cows will be calving in the next month or so and two have already calved. Last year I put allot of effort into selecting bulls with high weanling € value based on the ICBF website but so far I am very dissapointed with the two calves I have. The first calf born is BB heifer by FHZ out of a U grade CF52 cow. Its a very plain calf. It will be an R grade I'd say. The other is a LM heifer by TKO out of a first calf U grade LM heifer. Again a poor calf but I wasnt expecting much seen as it was her first calf.

My question is though is there any material available that will help to select a bull for a certain cow. For example is there a BB bull that would suit a big beefy cow or a small light cow and so on. The best cow on the farm is due to calf in a week or so. She is a big red LM cow (R grade) and is incalf to Giga. If this isnt a U grade calf I am going to pack it in! I think I am selecting bulls based on the ICBF rating rather than tayloring selection to suit certain cows.

Perhaps you guys could give examples of type of cows that suit certain bulls. I have to admit I am biased towards LM/BB cows and BB and CH bulls.

Thanks in advance for any replies,

Paul

P.S - Just a quick note on cow diet. All cows are fed silage up to 6 weeks before calving then they are switched to 70/30 barley straw/silage diet and a couple of lbs of rolled oats. All cows are getting pre-calver mineral from the time of housing.

Bizzum

RobinBanks wrote: »

I have 12 cows, 7 red LM (mainly R grade, 1 U grade), 2 black LM (R grade), 2 CH (U grade) and 1 BB (R grade). I am trying to produce weanlings for the export market. So far I have not been able to produce a U or E grade calf. Well maybe last year I had one, a BB bull calf out of BYU and a black LM cow.

12 cows mainly R and U grade, using AI and one U grade calf?

Something aint right.
For a start,
Is milk an issue? Is grazing tight? Is creep used?
Is thrive normal? Is disease an issue eg BVD?

tismesoitis

what weights and ages are u selling these weanlings at? and are you sure your grading them right ?

RobinBanks

Bizzum wrote: »

12 cows mainly R and U grade, using AI and one U grade calf?

Something aint right.
For a start,
Is milk an issue? Is grazing tight? Is creep used?
Is thrive normal? Is disease an issue eg BVD?

2 or 3 cows are poor enough milkers. The rest are pretty good. I invested heavily in getting good cows and the oldest cow on the farm is 6 years old. I don't think thrive is a mjor issue to be honest. All cows are treated for fluke twice a year. This year they were all tested for BVD, Lepto, Johnnes and salmonella. All were clear. I think the biggest problem is experience. I only took over the farm last year.

leg wax

Bizzum wrote: »

12 cows mainly R and U grade, using AI and one U grade calf?

Something aint right.
For a start,
Is milk an issue? Is grazing tight? Is creep used?
Is thrive normal? Is disease an issue eg BVD?

any of the above mentioned will no affect a calfs grade hes either born with the gene or not .the mother has to have the double muscle gene for starters.anyone that is pushing for the top grade cattle are now moveing away from the black lim out of british fr cows AS dams because mothers have loads of milk but the calfs dont have enough muscle and you can put all the milk and grass and meal he still wont put on big muscle.op i had my first giga heifer calf 1 week ago, shes out of a red lim and shes a u grade second calver, the cow is one of my favorite animals on the farm shes red in colour the calf came out just like a red lim with a black nose,but i am very dissapointed with her,but shes alive and better than a fantastic dead calf.also at what mart did you sell you stock and what time of year how old were the animals what weightswere they, what makes this cow that is due in your eyes your best cow.i will chance my arm and say that a beefy cow will not have a u grade calf what does anyone else think.sorry for been allover the place with answers and questions

RobinBanks

tismesoitis wrote: »

what weights and ages are u selling these weanlings at? and are you sure your grading them right ?

All the weans are sold between 6-7 months old. One was 10mths. He was 470kg but from memory I think I only got around E780 for him. The other bulls avg wts were 340kg and I got around 320-380 along with there weight.

Maybe I am grading them wrong. I am not 100% sure about this. I compared them to BB bulls that were on sale the same day. Most of mine were LM last year, One CH and one BB. Four of them were from first calvers.

RobinBanks

Bizzum wrote: »

12 cows mainly R and U grade, using AI and one U grade calf?

Something aint right.
For a start,
Is milk an issue? Is grazing tight? Is creep used?
Is thrive normal? Is disease an issue eg BVD?

Sorry forgot to mention. Grazing is far from tight. Quite a bit i end up topping paddocks that are not ate. I have re-seeded most of the land over the last 4yrs. The calves graze ahead of the cows, I have the electric fence raised on one side. The cows spend 3 days in each block and dont get back to it for approx 21 days. So they are always getting fresh grass. The calves are feed from July until sale on a ration of beef nut and barley, building up from 2kg per head per day to 5kg. Fed in the morn and in the evening.

I think I am doing the basics right but my judgment of cows/bulls may not be of the required standard.

RobinBanks

leg wax wrote: »

any of the above mentioned will no affect a calfs grade hes either born with the gene or not .the mother has to have the double muscle gene for starters.anyone that is pushing for the top grade cattle are now moveing away from the black lim out of british fr cows AS dams because mothers have loads of milk but the calfs dont have enough muscle and you can put all the milk and grass and meal he still wont put on big muscle.op i had my first giga heifer calf 1 week ago, shes out of a red lim and shes a u grade second calver, the cow is one of my favorite animals on the farm shes red in colour the calf came out just like a red lim with a black nose,but i am very dissapointed with her,but shes alive and better than a fantastic dead calf.also at what mart did you sell you stock and what time of year how old were the animals what weightswere they, what makes this cow that is due in your eyes your best cow.i will chance my arm and say that a beefy cow will not have a u grade calf what does anyone else think.sorry for been allover the place with answers and questions

Good points. I will take that on board about the black lm because one of them has a bag like a holstein and had an avg calf last year.

I sold at Ballina the week before the Oct bank holiday.

I think the red lm cow mentioned is my best cow because last yrs calf (her second calf), a heifer out of PXU was a cracker. I didnt sell her as she is one of the best I have seen. great bone and power and very wide at the back. This cow is not awful muscly but has lots of milk. She is out of a CF52 cow and her grandmother was a SM from a shorthorn cow. her first calf is due now aswell. She is a MBU heifer and I am hopeful she will turn out the same way. Not muscly but making a great udder

Bizzum

leg wax wrote: »

any of the above mentioned will no affect a calfs grade hes either born with the gene or not .

If a calf, no matter what genetics behind them is starved or sick they will not make a U grade weanling.

leg wax

RobinBanks wrote: »

Good points. I will take that on board about the black lm because one of them has a bag like a holstein and had an avg calf last year.

I sold at Ballina the week before the Oct bank holiday.

I think the red lm cow mentioned is my best cow because last yrs calf (her second calf), a heifer out of PXU was a cracker. I didnt sell her as she is one of the best I have seen. great bone and power and very wide at the back. This cow is not awful muscly but has lots of milk. She is out of a CF52 cow and her grandmother was a SM from a shorthorn cow. her first calf is due now aswell. She is a MBU heifer and I am hopeful she will turn out the same way. Not muscly but making a great udder

i had a black lim with a big bag of milk calve down today she has had 2 useless blue calfs todate so today she had a blonde heifer which i hope will go on and do the job in a few years.ballina has it many exporters attending, i was trying to find the bull pxu who sells him i cant find him in any catalogues

RobinBanks

leg wax wrote: »

i had a black lim with a big bag of milk calve down today she has had 2 useless blue calfs todate so today she had a blonde heifer which i hope will go on and do the job in a few years.ballina has it many exporters attending, i was trying to find the bull pxu who sells him i cant find him in any catalogues

There was a few, but I was selling around 7 in the evening and around lunchtime the ring was packed compared to evening time so maybe they had there trucks filled at that stage.

PXU was available through progressive genetics last year. Not sure if the local AI man still has him. What part of th ecountry are you in. I can PM his details if you would like to talk to him

leg wax

Bizzum wrote: »

If a calf, no matter what genetics behind them is starved or sick they will not make a U grade weanling.

i was talking about a ugrade calf been born i never said anything about a weanling.

Bizzum

leg wax wrote: »

i was talking about a ugrade calf been born i never said anything about a weanling.

Ya start your grading a lot earlier than me so. I don't be too concerned how a calf comes out, its how he turns out on market day!

PXU is Enfield Plexus. I'v used him. Enfield, Progressive Genetics, have him, Not the biggest CH bull lots of shape, probably suit a bigger type of cow.

leg wax

Bizzum wrote: »

Ya start your grading a lot earlier than me so. I don't be too concerned how a calf comes out, its how he turns out on market day!

PXU is Enfield Plexus. I'v used him. Enfield, Progressive Genetics, have him, Not the biggest CH bull lots of shape, probably suit a bigger type of cow.

i am not been smart but i dont lift the tail to see if its a bull or heifer but has it a arse or will it get one,thanks for that i was going to ask what breed he was.

Bizzum

@RobinBanks You seem to be doing the basics well enough. Thats some ration your feeding though, 2 going to 5Kgs. Thats a lot. Do you think you could carry more stock?
I suppose if the basics are right its a matter of getting the correct bull on the right cow. Experience will teach you this.

We don't use progressive as much anymore but in the last few years we had good results with the Sim bull Kilbride farm Newry KFY, Navarin the Lim, Jaguar the Lim, Rossli RLI Culard Charolais and the Blonde Landais left some lovely replacements.

pakalasa

I think you're being a bit hard on yourself. Go to any weanling sale, how many weanlings are actually making the €1000, very few. And only a small % overall go for export.
As regards breeding, Arthur Bredin of progressive genetics says that when selecting a bull, "you should look to bring something new to the mix". By that he means, pick a muscular bull if the cow lacks muscle, a tall growthy bull if the cow lacks height etc.
It helps aswell to go to some of these farm walks to see the cow types that are bringing the top weanlings. It can be a bit of an eye opener. I think the trick is to get a cow that has muscle in her genes, but not on her arse, IYKWIM.
I take it you're a part-timer, be careful or you may run into calving proplems.

RobinBanks

Bizzum wrote: »

@RobinBanks You seem to be doing the basics well enough. Thats some ration your feeding though, 2 going to 5Kgs. Thats a lot. Do you think you could carry more stock?
I suppose if the basics are right its a matter of getting the correct bull on the right cow. Experience will teach you this.

We don't use progressive as much anymore but in the last few years we had good results with the Sim bull Kilbride farm Newry KFY, Navarin the Lim, Jaguar the Lim, Rossli RLI Culard Charolais and the Blonde Landais left some lovely replacements.

The problem I have is that we only have a 3 bay slated house and an old cow stable and a roof pin. So I cannot hold too much stock fo rthe winter. I would be able to hold maybe 18 cows during the summer with the amount of land we have. Maybe in a few years I will be in a position to add onto the slated shed but def not at the moment.

Thanks for the suggestion RE the bulls. I have given landis to a big CH cow who is on the point of calving. I am praying fo ra heifer as the A.I man recommended as a good replacement.

Are culard CH hard calved in general or is it all about cow management before calving?

RobinBanks

pakalasa wrote: »

I think you're being a bit hard on yourself. Go to any weanling sale, how many weanlings are actually making the €1000, very few. And only a small % overall go for export.
As regards breeding, Arthur Bredin of progressive genetics says that when selecting a bull, "you should look to bring something new to the mix". By that he means, pick a muscular bull if the cow lacks muscle, a tall growthy bull if the cow lacks height etc.
It helps aswell to go to some of these farm walks to see the cow types that are bringing the top weanlings. It can be a bit of an eye opener. I think the trick is to get a cow that has muscle in her genes, but not on here arse, IYKWIM.
I take it you're a part-timer, be careful or you may run into calving proplems.

Thats very good advice about the farm walk because in all honesty I would'nt be able to pick out a bull for a certain cow. By looking at others it may help. The bloody A.I catalouge should just say use on a tall cow or use on a muscly cow and so on. It would make it easier for the amateurs like me!


I suppose because I am only a small farmer I wanted to have the best possible calves. Like I said I have a huge interest in it and i take great satifaction from having good stock. I know not many are making 1000 euro but if I got one or two I would know I was making progress and I would be happy with this. It takes a long time to get to this level but I would like to be steered towards it!

When there is a nice dry day I will take some pics of the cows and calves for ye. It might give ye an idea what they are like. I let them out every evening after work to walk up the road for exercise and to get a drink of water so it will be no bother to take a pic. Oh and I do have water in the shed! I purposely turned it off at this pin so they would know they have to do a bit of walking if they want to drink.

Bizzum

RobinBanks wrote: »

Thanks for the suggestion RE the bulls. I have given landis to a big CH cow who is on the point of calving. I am praying fo ra heifer as the A.I man recommended as a good replacement.

Hporfully you will get a heifer. As far as I'm aware Landais straws are no longer available? Anyone know?

Are culard CH hard calved in general or is it all about cow management before calving?

Like many things in life it's a combination of factors. Some are easy like Rossli and Haubois (sp?) and others are harder like Lanzac. Huge amount to do with the cow too.
From experience Rossli calves are easily born and need every bit of growth the have, but are thick and muscular.

I would go along with what Pakalasa posted too. Also it takes time and experience to know what works best on individual cows. Its a work in progress in my case anyway!
Oh, and don't be afraid to cull your worse performers. Doing this helps upgrade your herd too over time.

RobinBanks

leg wax wrote: »

what makes this cow that is due in your eyes your best cow.

Legwax,

This cow calved yesterday. Its days like this that make it worth while. For as long as I have been around the farm I have not seen a better calf. She had a black bull calf. Calved herself, how, i will never understand. This calf looks like a month old calf. very tall for a BB and very wide at the shoulders and hips. Was born with a big arse! so hopefully I am onto a winner here. Lovely long coat of hair on the calf aswell. I think an awful lot of having good calves is having good cows. This is the cow that had the super heifer calf last year. I am going to take a pic in a day or two and post it for ye. That Giga bull (S659) is 20% calving difficulty and I would be very wary of using him on a narrower cow. If some of my other cows were incalf to him I would be extremely worried now. And bare in mind these cows are being fed on straw and a grape of silage for the last 6-8 weeks to keep the calf from getting to big.

leg wax

thats great news . i have 2 giga heifers on the ground and the 2 were born on their own , both have long legs, the first is filling out now and getting muscle, if they dont have shape at 6 weeks they will not get it.

Bizzum

RobinBanks wrote: »

I think an awful lot of having good calves is having good cows.

I think you've hit the nail on the head here. The bull will only be responsible for 50% of the calf's genetics, no matter how good he is.
However it is only with experience that you can identify your good cows. The best looking cows don't always produce the best calves. I suppose thats the advantage of AI, you can pick and choose bulls at your leisure to complement individual cows.

That sounds like a serious calf ya got there.

Andy Gray

Some very interesting reading here. Suckler man myself and obsessed with breeding and the various AI bulls available. A few questions.

1. How hard calving are some of these blues e.g. BYU, OVO, DEP? Have a very good 3/4 bred Limo cow by EPN. Never seen her calve any of her 6 calves. Was thinkin of throwin a BYU on her. Should she be able to calve him?

2. Has anyone used the Char CF85 yet? I know he's not hard calving but is he all he's supposed to be? These new bulls Cottage Devon and Goldstar Echo look very promising.

3. The simmentals are very underrated in my opinion. May not have shape of Char or BB but will far outweigh and grow either. Sold a Simm weanling in Nov. By bova bull MIF. 8 months selling. Weighed 515 kgs and made 925 euro. Sold Char same day by NCBC bull SAI. Was only 2 weeks younger than Simm but was 100 kgs lighter. Granted SAI is a more maternal type Char but thats a big difference. If this Simm had been a month older and sold earlier then he would have made the E2 kg as the market was stronger in Oct. Thats ur 1000 euro weanling with no calving difficulty or general hassle.

4. Is anybody tapping into what is the ever growing market for good replacement heifers? With so many suckler men using all blues then there will be a shortage of good R grade replacement heifers. I'll probably be shot down on this but I think this black Limo from the friesian herd is a waste of time. Too narrow and stone mad!!!

Would like to hear people's thoughts.

RobinBanks

Hello Andy. See my comments below for what its worth!

Andy Gray wrote: »

Some very interesting reading here. Suckler man myself and obsessed with breeding and the various AI bulls available. A few questions.

1. How hard calving are some of these blues e.g. BYU, OVO, DEP? Have a very good 3/4 bred Limo cow by EPN. Never seen her calve any of her 6 calves. Was thinkin of throwin a BYU on her. Should she be able to calve him? I don't think you will have any problems with any of the mentioned bulls. By the sounds of things you have a good calving cow so with correct management of the cow pre-calving you should be ok. I had a LM cow similar to yours that calved on her own. The bull was just over 20% calving difficulty. The main thing is to the pick a cow that has a large pelvis and I think you will be ok.

2. Has anyone used the Char CF85 yet? I know he's not hard calving but is he all he's supposed to be? These new bulls Cottage Devon and Goldstar Echo look very promising. I have one on the way but none in other years. Neighbor used him a bit but he does'nt rate him that highly. He recommended CF71, KIB and MDO and (HWN for replacements) to me.

3. The simmentals are very underrated in my opinion. May not have shape of Char or BB but will far outweigh and grow either. Sold a Simm weanling in Nov. By bova bull MIF. 8 months selling. Weighed 515 kgs and made 925 euro. Sold Char same day by NCBC bull SAI. Was only 2 weeks younger than Simm but was 100 kgs lighter. Granted SAI is a more maternal type Char but thats a big difference. If this Simm had been a month older and sold earlier then he would have made the E2 kg as the market was stronger in Oct. Thats ur 1000 euro weanling with no calving difficulty or general hassle. No experience with Sims

4. Is anybody tapping into what is the ever growing market for good replacement heifers? With so many suckler men using all blues then there will be a shortage of good R grade replacement heifers. I'll probably be shot down on this but I think this black Limo from the friesian herd is a waste of time. Too narrow and stone mad!!! I agree RE the black LM from a freisian but a black LM from an angus seems to be a far better animal. I tend to buy springers from a farmer not to far away from me who buys weanling heifers in the mart and breeds them himself. They are expensive to buy but the quality is right. I have bought 4 from him in the last 2 yrs and I think they will prove to be very good cows if there first calves are anything to go by. So to answer you're question, yes I am but in an expensive sort of way!

On a side note, I bought two weanling maine anjou heifers last back end. One is off a red LM and the other is off a BB cow. Early doors yet but they are very square heifers and look like they will make good cows.

Would like to hear people's thoughts.

leg wax

andy why are you going for all the harder blue bulls? byu is throwing ex calves but the bulls can come very big by him, ovo not worth the trouble and you will have to be there when hes comeing out a u grade cow.dep never used him ai man would not give him to me for my blonde cows.

Pat the lad

With Leg Wax on this one Andy - I never touch the so called hard calvers from BB - I usually go for SPX, ELZ, SFL, ETB, EDJ & AVD - all easy calving (and cheap). never any trouble calving them - 99% calve on their own or with very little assistance. Still getting good money for weanlings - and often reach or exceed the magic figure

I'm probably not brave enough to try the so called harder calvers - but the easy calving bulls are working for me so happy enough.
Having said that I did try one cow with GAU this year - anyone know whats he like - calving-offspring???
I'm also tempted to try EZN but might leave him - again anyone know whats he like - calving-offspring???

Andy - Fair play for trying the big hitters - best of luck with them!!!!!!

Bizzum

Andy Gray wrote: »

Have a very good 3/4 bred Limo cow by EPN. Never seen her calve any of her 6 calves. Was thinkin of throwin a BYU on her. Should she be able to calve him?

I can sort of comment on a few of your questions, in one go!
I have a cow that sounds just like the above only by ULE. Tried the blues on her, can't recall which bulls, but she popped them out no problem.

Then I got to thinking about which cows I should be looking to breed replacements off and put the simm bull Newry on her, she had a bull calf that we finished as a steer under 30 mths, he was a U grade and from memory certainly exceeded 450kgs dead.
She then had a heifer calf from Newry, who calved down this year to the Part bull IRX, a heifer calf, (future cow maybe!).
So I wouldn't be one bit afraid to go down the Simm route particurarly on a cow, not extra big, that will bring a bit of shape.

pakalasa

For what it's worth - I've had 2 cows calf to the BB bull FHZ (NCBC) so far.
A bull last year, from a black Lim cow, very plain to be honest. Had a yellow Char cow calf to him last night also, a heifer, looks like a good one. Both calved him very easily. Didn't see either cow calf.

Andy Gray

Dont get me wrong. Im not putting d whole herd in calf to these mega blues. Generally all cows have good wide back ends. There are a couple exceptionally wide and their progeny to date have been unreal. They have the genetics and the width and i reckon a BYU calf from one of these cud be a real showstopper!!

vanderbadger

anyone ever try s671 (julius de pre rosine) from dovea??
very muscular looking bull but easy calving apparently

Andy Gray

Dont get me wrong. Im not putting d whole herd in calf to these mega blues. Generally all cows have good wide back ends. There are a couple exceptionally wide and their progeny to date have been unreal. They have the genetics and the width and i reckon a BYU calf from one of these cud be a real showstopper!! Have used some EDJ in the past. Nice cattle but not exceptional. Have a few FHZ on the way and am a little disappointed seeing some of the comments about him above. What i ment about the replacement heifer market is that more people should breed these replacements, particularly part time guys. Maternal type bulls are generally not as difficult calving as the terminal sires. There is a serious demand out there for good replacements particularly anything with Limo in it. I would also definitely encourage people to use Simmental a little more. There is a bull called Curaheen Vio (CQA) available through Eurogene. He has the highest suckler beef value in the country and his bloodline is incredible and only 7.5% calving difficulty. NCBC have also bought a bull called Curaheen Apostle (S978). He is from an embryo which was brought in from Canada. I am told that the Canadian Simmentals are small and hardy at birth but have an incredible growth rate once born. A bull like this would be perfect for heifers and yet you could have a very heavy weanling to sell at 9 or 10 months. And before anyone asks, no I am not a pedigree simmental breeder nor do I have any affiliation to Simmentals. Just think that it is an exceptional breed who's value has been forgotten amongst all the hype about blues and Charolais!!

RobinBanks

I had a heifer calf last night out of Balthazar CF85 from Red LM cow. Powerful calf really wide at the hips and deep body. Wonder what CF85 is like in terms of maternal traits? The cow has a great bag of milk hope she passes it on to the daughter. Should be a nice one for keeping.

Pic is from the iphone...sorry about really poor quality!

Oh and neighbor down the road has 4 cottage devon calves. he reckons they are the first in the country from this bull!! anyway. unreal calves but he will not use this bull again. Broke the jack pulling one them an it was a heifer. Only 1 bull but very happy with quality. So for anyone looking to add some stress to there lives try DEZ!

Bodacious

RobinBanks wrote: »

I had a heifer calf last night out of Balthazar CF85 from Red LM cow. Powerful calf really wide at the hips and deep body. Wonder what CF85 is like in terms of maternal traits? The cow has a great bag of milk hope she passes it on to the daughter. Should be a nice one for keeping.

Pic is from the iphone...sorry about really poor quality!

Oh and neighbor down the road has 4 cottage devon calves. he reckons they are the first in the country from this bull!! anyway. unreal calves but he will not use this bull again. Broke the jack pulling one them an it was a heifer. Only 1 bull but very happy with quality. So for anyone looking to add some stress to there lives try DEZ!

Thats not good, an awful lot of boys near me were using the "described by foreign observers as the best bull ever seen in Ireland - the dream bull":mad: Luckily i didnt use him myself. All 4 births were assisted were they?

Thats a good looking calf you have there, surprised so much white in her from a red lim cow, that CF85 is not noted for replacements but you can look him up http://www.ncbc.ie/beefdata/beefsire.php?id=CF85

He gone now too, IBR outbreak

RobinBanks

He had the vet at 2 and pulled 2 himself with help. He said they all brought over 300 days. I seen the heifer calf yesterday that is a week old, fierce lump of a calf. Depend on the cow maybe?

Ya that cow of mine has always had that sort of calf. Her mother was a red and white shorthorn. Thanks for that link by the way!

Sundy

Ive seen 3 sylvian heifers calf since christmas and all 3 have calved nicely and have loads of milk. Also had a mozart heifer calf with loads of milk.

RobinBanks

Sundy wrote: »

Ive seen 3 sylvian heifers calf since christmas and all 3 have calved nicely and have loads of milk. Also had a mozart heifer calf with loads of milk.

Sundy, what ai code is sylvian? never heard of him.

Anyone have any heifers from CF61?

Sundy

RobinBanks wrote: »

Sundy, what ai code is sylvian? never heard of him.

Anyone have any heifers from CF61?

You will find him here http://www.bova-ai.com/

Bodacious

RobinBanks wrote: »

Sundy, what ai code is sylvian? never heard of him.

Anyone have any heifers from CF61?

No i wanted to use him but my ai man was late getting the straws .. an interesting one for replacements;)

Bodacious

RobinBanks wrote: »

He had the vet at 2 and pulled 2 himself with help. He said they all brought over 300 days. I seen the heifer calf yesterday that is a week old, fierce lump of a calf. Depend on the cow maybe?

Ya that cow of mine has always had that sort of calf. Her mother was a red and white shorthorn. Thanks for that link by the way!

Nice cross that the 1/4 shorthorn. Our best cow for years is out of a big strawberry old style shorthorn cow and sire: white bull (BB X CH) , cow is imo ideal suckler :average size (easily fed), long deep and very wide at hips, she would calf a fridge ~ biggest char in the book every year and never as much as caught her calving, she blue/black with white face,excellent rearer, puts muscle into calves as 1/4 bb, fertile, healthy, hard black hooves etc etc she 22 + now and just had 9th bull on the trot so unfortunately its end of the road for her:mad:

RobinBanks

Well Bod,

A man at work had a bull calf out of CF61. He said he wouldnt waste a bullet on him! and it was out of a good sim cow. he showed me a pic of the cow. thats why I asked here! I was thinking of giving him but I am in the market to produce export weanlings and i usually buy my replacements but i like the idea of breeding within my own herd so i am caught between two minds at the mo!

Bizzum

Sundy wrote: »

Ive seen 3 sylvian heifers calf since christmas and all 3 have calved nicely and have loads of milk. Also had a mozart heifer calf with loads of milk.

We have 2 Sylvian PB cows, a 3rd calver and a cow heifer, time up soon.
He is a long bull with a lot of growth. I had a plain enough bull calf by him too. Probably suited to smaller type cows to inject a bit of size. He certainly holds onto milk, and the 3rd calver is a good breeder. Time will tell about the younger one!

Sundy

Bizzum wrote: »

We have 2 Sylvian PB cows, a 3rd calver and a cow heifer, time up soon.
He is a long bull with a lot of growth. I had a plain enough bull calf by him too. Probably suited to smaller type cows to inject a bit of size. He certainly holds onto milk, and the 3rd calver is a good breeder. Time will tell about the younger one!

sorry i probably should have made it clearer the mothers are sylvian all PB too.

Bodacious

RobinBanks wrote: »

Well Bod,

A man at work had a bull calf out of CF61. He said he wouldnt waste a bullet on him! and it was out of a good sim cow. he showed me a pic of the cow. thats why I asked here! I was thinking of giving him but I am in the market to produce export weanlings and i usually buy my replacements but i like the idea of breeding within my own herd so i am caught between two minds at the mo!

Gee that doesn't sound good, maybe he will come good though, he has SBV of €163 and top 2% of breed on weanling export also so i thought if i got a bull and not a heifer he wouldn't be too bad either.. we'll watch this space on him:)

bogman_bass

Bodacious wrote: »

Thats a good looking calf you have there, surprised so much white in her from a red lim cow, that CF85 is not noted for replacements but you can look him up http://www.ncbc.ie/beefdata/beefsire.php?id=CF85

He gone now too, IBR outbreak

still rakes of straws of him though

Andy Gray

Had a CF61 heifer calf arrive last friday. Beautiful calf. Born on 284 days exactly. Long and lean but filling out really well already. She is out of a LimXSim litron (TON) cow with loads of milk. It is worth noting that CF61 is out of a cow called Joconde. She has the highest French maternal rating of any cow in any breed and is a top milker by all accounts. I also have 2 yearling heifers by Saphir (SAI). He is also out of Joconde (i.e. he is a half brother to CF61) so should be interesting to see how these turn out.

pakalasa

That whole thing with Cottage Devon (DEZ) prooves how important it is to use a proven bull, ie. one with high reliability. That bull had a low calving diff % figure earlier on (about a year ago). On the last proof, Dec 2010, the figure shot up with the reliability.
I leave the testing of these new bulls to other people.:D

odnauq

This is the best forum in Ireland and people are so helpful.
Where can you go and get such great information.
Thank you!

RobinBanks

odnauq wrote: »

This is the best forum in Ireland and people are so helpful.
Where can you go and get such great information.
Thank you!

Its mighty surely. Everyone here is very helpful and forthcoming with information. It is a credit to the people that post here to share there knowledge.

I am very grateful anyway!

Bodacious

pakalasa wrote: »

That whole thing with Cottage Devon (DEZ) prooves how important it is to use a proven bull, ie. one with high reliability. That bull had a low calving diff % figure earlier on (about a year ago). On the last proof, Dec 2010, the figure shot up with the reliability.
I leave the testing of these new bulls to other people.:D

Good thinking use him year 2 when you can see them in the next field. Woul the figure have shot up when first calves actually started to land and up until that the figure was based on calving ease of his parents etc

pakalasa

Something weird happening here.
Back in Dec 2010, I wrote this in the following;

"I see the new proofs for Dec 2010 are up now on www.icbf.com.
Cottage Devon is coming at 18.7% calving (40% rel). That makes him hard calving in my books. Pity, great looking bull."

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056120639

Now he's 12.51% at 28% Rel. Something wrong there !!! :eek:
http://www.icbf.com/taurus/bull_search/index.php?ani_id=614148978&target=b_eurostar

The 18% would be more like it I'd say.

vanderbadger

pakalasa wrote: »

Something weird happening here.
Back in Dec 2010, I wrote this in the following;

"I see the new proofs for Dec 2010 are up now on www.icbf.com.
Cottage Devon is coming at 18.7% calving (40% rel). That makes him hard calving in my books. Pity, great looking bull."

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056120639

Now he's 12.51% at 28% Rel. Something wrong there !!! :eek:
http://www.icbf.com/taurus/bull_search/index.php?ani_id=614148978&target=b_eurostar

The 18% would be more like it I'd say.

I dont know what you did pakalasa but the icbf site doesnt seem to be working high nor dry now
might explain the figures being a bit haywire though