Irish Life & Permanent Shares, worth a punt?

Sand Wedge

Out of all the Irish Banks I see Irish Life & Permanent as coming out of this crisis without having to get to much capital from the government.

Do you think that they are worth a punt at current SP?

irishh_bob

Sand Wedge wrote: »

Out of all the Irish Banks I see Irish Life & Permanent as coming out of this crisis without having to get to much capital from the government.

Do you think that they are worth a punt at current SP?

i bought 500 euro worth of them at the begining of december at 1 .04 , thier now under 90 cent , if the bank guarentee didnt give them a decent boost , i really dont know what will , their heavily exposed to the mortgage market and with the likelehood of increased defaults , thier sure to suffer

Wildrover666

Might it not be the time to sell, seeing your so pessimistic about the company? Avoid suffering along with the company? You can always buy back in when you anticipate an upsurge.

OfflerCrocGod

Just wait until there is some clarity on the banks and what will happen with the country before buying IMO. Elections and stress tests etc still coming up, you never know what can happen until it's all clear. Everyone seems to be buying banks way to early in my mind, as long as there so many unknowns there will not be proper support for the share prices so they can collapse another 90% from where they are. Hold your horse, there could be lots of money to be made here but equally you could be wiped out, who cares if you miss out on the first 30% if you're underwater by 60%?

Sand Wedge

Do you think the share price will nose dive if it is announced that EBS is being acquired by the other consortium and not IL&P?

poodles

Sand Wedge wrote: »

Do you think the share price will nose dive if it is announced that EBS is being acquired by the other consortium and not IL&P?

With so much uncertainty about the company why not broaden your horizons past irish bank shares and do some research on a company and invest?

Urquell

The group require an extra 145 Million to meet their Tier 1 Capital requirements by the end of May, unlike Bank of Ireland who have until the end of Feb to find a substantial sum.

Today is the deadline for bids for EBS. Any idea on how IL&P intends to buy EBS and meet their Tier 1 Requirements? Have they given any indication of where they could source this money from?

They make a point of telling us that they are the only organisation to thus far not need Govt help so I presume they will do their best to keep it that way. Failing Govt intervention, another Rights Issue may be on the cards. Would that be fair to say?

Sand Wedge

Financing details that are mentioned so far are listed in below article.

http://in.reuters.com/article/idINLDE6A209720101103

Urquell

Have a look at this article : http://www.sbpost.ie/newsfeatures/can-ebs-help-rebuild-irish-banking-sector-53951.html

It discusses the Bids for EBS from IL&P and the Carlyle [private equity] Group. And it says :

"The private equity consortium views a buyout as the foundation for a new business, to which could be added the takeover of Permanent TSB in the short term and the addition of the deposit books of Anglo and Irish Nationwide."

So they are looking to buy Permo? Amazing! They are the loss making outfit in IL&P. Permo is hugely exposed to the Irish Mortgage market and I believe over half their mortgage book is composed of loss making Trackers. Irish Life would do quite well on its own (and maybe even attract takeover interest).

Very interesting I thought and well worth keeping an eye on. There could be a major opportunity in this one.

unknownlegend

Urquell wrote: »

Have a look at this article : http://www.sbpost.ie/newsfeatures/can-ebs-help-rebuild-irish-banking-sector-53951.html

It discusses the Bids for EBS from IL&P and the Carlyle [private equity] Group. And it says :

"The private equity consortium views a buyout as the foundation for a new business, to which could be added the takeover of Permanent TSB in the short term and the addition of the deposit books of Anglo and Irish Nationwide."

So they are looking to buy Permo? Amazing! They are the loss making outfit in IL&P. Permo is hugely exposed to the Irish Mortgage market and I believe over half their mortgage book is composed of loss making Trackers. Irish Life would do quite well on its own (and maybe even attract takeover interest).

Very interesting I thought and well worth keeping an eye on. There could be a major opportunity in this one.

Noticed that myself. I have a position at .76 cent, bought in early December. Have seen it jump to ~1.2 and now back to ~.86. Didn't sell on the big gain, but not bothered (would have been nice of course...) as I think it's only a matter of time before the group are dissolved: the loss making bank will be separated from the profitable Life assurance, Corporate Business, and Fund Mgmt arms. When this happens I expect a considerable bounce.
The framework for dissolution has been put in place some time ago, when they changed the structure of the holdings company to very much put the bank/lending arms out on a precipice away from the profitable assurance areas (see image and some recent figures here http://production.investis.com/ipm/aboutus/groupprofile/)

WildBoots

The banking system is up sh1t creek without a paddle. Sure...you might make a few quid in the short term but is the risk really worth it? The play for 2011 is commodities...food, energy and precious metals.

Just an opinion.......;)

unknownlegend

WildBoots wrote: »

The banking system is up sh1t creek without a paddle. Sure...you might make a few quid in the short term but is the risk really worth it? The play for 2011 is commodities...food, energy and precious metals.

Just an opinion.......;)

agreed. My position here is approximately 4% of my portfolio and falls under the category of 'punt' :-)

irishh_bob

WildBoots wrote: »

The banking system is up sh1t creek without a paddle. Sure...you might make a few quid in the short term but is the risk really worth it? The play for 2011 is commodities...food, energy and precious metals.

Just an opinion.......;)

agree about food and energy but prescious metals are seeing a considerable correction this past six weeks

WildBoots

irishh_bob wrote: »

agree about food and energy but prescious metals are seeing a considerable correction this past six weeks

Corrections are healthy, nothing goes straight up!

Irishmaid

Hey - Thursday April 7th - What should I do - My three teenagers (over 18) kids have 330 shares each thats 990 between them and I was keeping them for a little nest egg should I tell them they have them and sell them now or should they keep them?????Please need answers dont know anything about shares etc!!!!!!!!!!! T H A N K Y O U

pocketdooz

Irishmaid wrote: »

Hey - Thursday April 7th - What should I do - My three teenagers (over 18) kids have 330 shares each thats 990 between them and I was keeping them for a little nest egg should I tell them they have them and sell them now or should they keep them?????Please need answers dont know anything about shares etc!!!!!!!!!!! T H A N K Y O U

I think your maths might be wrong - the shares are trading at 13.5 cents now so each bundle of 330 shares is worth about €44.55 - total is worth €133.65.

It will cost you about €20 - €30 to sell them depending on which broker you use so you will clear about €100 I think.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. For the sake of €100 you might as well just keep them in there and see if any turnaround happens but I doubt it as I believe the company is just be wound down.

.

ilpaction

Hi Sand Wedge,

Have you heard about the Action Group for IL&P Shareholders?

See : www.ilpshareholders.com

If you are a shareholder we urge you to get to the AGM - Vote down this Board and play your part in directing the future of this company!

ilpaction

Hi Pocket Dooz

Have you heard about the Action Group for IL&P Shareholders?

See : www.ilpshareholders.com

If you are a shareholder or know anyone who is - we urge you to get to the AGM - Vote down this Board and play your part in directing the future of this company!

Merelyme

I wonder what the story will be now with the latest developments. Shares are trading today at 3.2 cents. What will happen to shares when the company is divided into two separate organisations?

liammur

Merelyme wrote: »

I wonder what the story will be now with the latest developments. Shares are trading today at 3.2 cents. What will happen to shares when the company is divided into two separate organisations?

I don't think anyone really cares, shareholders have been wiped out. I will be closing down my account in protest.

Merelyme

liammur wrote: »

I don't think anyone really cares, shareholders have been wiped out. I will be closing down my account in protest.

I bought some at 2 cents a while ago (when trading ILP was re-opened). I know the old ones are useless but I was wondering about new ones. They're probably useless too!

liammur

Merelyme wrote: »

I bought some at 2 cents a while ago (when trading ILP was re-opened). I know the old ones are useless but I was wondering about new ones. They're probably useless too!

You'll probably make a bit on them, is their a big spread?

Merelyme

liammur wrote: »

You'll probably make a bit on them, is their a big spread?

To be honest I haven't really studied their form. I knew something was going to happen regarding splitting the company up and I was hoping the new 'normal' banking section might increase the share price. What I don't understand is what will happen to my shares when the split is done. (I really don't understand the whole thing very much!)

liammur

Merelyme wrote: »

To be honest I haven't really studied their form. I knew something was going to happen regarding splitting the company up and I was hoping the new 'normal' banking section might increase the share price. What I don't understand is what will happen to my shares when the split is done. (I really don't understand the whole thing very much!)

No one does. Noonan may decide you have no rights as a shareholder.

Merelyme

liammur wrote: »

No one does. Noonan may decide you have no rights as a shareholder.

Ah grand. Thanks for your help, Liammur.