What mileage justifies getting a diesel?

JustLen

Ive noticed quite a lot of people saying not to jump on the diesel bandwagon. Due to the amount of cheaper petrol cars available on the used market these days.
Actually makes sense i guess but what mileage do ye think justifies a diesel?
I do around 13-15k miles a year of mixed driving.
Im still thinking thinking the diesel would be worth it am i wrong?

Depends on what you are spending on the car, if I was doing 13K/15K year (I do about 12K at the moment) and spending €2000 on a car I'd probably get a diesel as I'd save a good few quid in fuel relative to the cost of the car. If I was spending €10K on a car I'd be more inclined to get the car I want rather than go petrol or diesel based on running costs as in relation to purchase price there is little in it.

30mpg doing 15K year in a petrol with petrol at €1.439 = €3267
50pmg doing 15K year in a diesel with diesel at €1.409 = €1919

So buy the ole ****ter for €2000 and the fuel saving is loads, spend €10K and it's not huge. Also factor in that a €10K diesel may well be needing a turbo, DMF or something else in the next year or so and it may not be too shrewd a move.

voxpop

Yeah except diesel is ~1.35 and petrol is ~1.42 :pac:

My own experience is that diesels are a good bit cheaper to run - sure a clutch or turbo can go, but Ive driven high mileage diesels without having much above standard servicing to pay out.

voxpop

30mpg doing 15K year in a petrol with petrol at €1.42 = €3223
50pmg doing 15K year in a diesel with diesel at €1.35 = €1838

voxpop wrote: »

Yeah except diesel is ~1.35 and petrol is ~1.42 :pac:

My own experience is that diesels are a good bit cheaper to run - sure a clutch or turbo can go, but Ive driven high mileage diesels without having much above standard servicing to pay out.

Correct figures above for you so. If the diesel will cost over €2000 more than the equivalent petrol to buy it makes even less sense.

Tea 1000

You will easily manage an average of 30mpg over the year in a petrol, but not very many diesels will average 50mpg over a year.
EGR valves, injectors, turbo's, particulate filters, DMF's, all those things on a diesel are big bucks if they go wrong. So it's a bit of a gamble these days. If nothing goes wrong, you're winning, if it does, you're better off with a petrol.
Town driving and modern diesels don't work.

That's very true too, even with my pessimistic 30 mpg and optimistic 50 mpg it doesn't make huge sense on 15000 miles a year. A friend ran a 1.6 focus while he was working in Dublin and up and down to Cork every weekend, he lived in Lucan (just off the motorway) and worked in Grange Castle so to and from work was less than 20mph mostly, he averaged 40mpg for the 6 or 7 months he was doing that, admittedly Cork to Dublin was a 180 mile motorway run but still not bad figures.

cantdecide

RoverJames wrote: »

...Depends on what you are spending on the car, if I was doing 13K/15K year (I do about 12K at the moment) and spending €2000 on a car I'd probably get a diesel...

IME, a €2k diesel isn't worth having unless you're used to always having the money to fix or replace it to hand.

drunkmonkey

petrol all the way with that kind of mileage, I have a diesel and it's not by choice it's simple economics but i'm in the 30k + bracket.

voxpop

Petrols also have DMFs and their own issues. The EGR valve is a very simple valve and can be easily cleaned or blanked off. DPFs are not great if you are only doing town driving, but otherwise shouldnt cause an issue, plus they have only been introduced around 2004 so earlier than that and your fine.

A diesel car will cost less to run and will have a better resale value(only diesels and small petrols are selling now) - overall they are generally cheaper unless you are unlucky.

I dont know where these myths that diesels are hard and expensive to maintain have come from. Do some research and buy a good oldish diesel, treat it well and it will run for years without issue.

FutureGuy

Good post OP, was going to ask the same.

I do about 9000 km per year, with most of that done on the 5k to work every day and rarely on a motorway. Was looking at Ford Focus 2008/2009 diesels but now wondering of a petrol is a better choice?

sollar

Don't forget too that the government put petrol up by 4c in the last budget and diesel by only 2. They don't seem to like petrol.

JustLen

FutureGuy wrote: »

Good post OP, was going to ask the same.

I do about 9000 km per year, with most of that done on the 5k to work every day and rarely on a motorway. Was looking at Ford Focus 2008/2009 diesels but now wondering of a petrol is a better choice?

Exactly, and in my case id be looking at the lower end of the market (Very lower as cut backs have had to be made:rolleyes:)

Me thinks a small engined handy car like a fiesta would work better. the cheaper tax and low maintenance is appealing. And its not as if its going to be particularly heavy on petrol.
Like a lot of people im sure, im just not that clued in when it comes to diesel cars and would be much more comfertable buying a cheap petrol than a cheap diesel.
think my mind is made up.

@RoverJames- Thats a good point, if someone were spending more than 5/ 10k or whatever it may be on a car I think it doesnt make sense to sacrifice what you want in order to make marginal savings on fuel

cantdecide

cantdecide wrote: »

IME, a €2k diesel isn't worth having unless you're used to always having the money to fix or replace it to hand.

Depends on the diesel really, a non common rail yoke without a DMF that's less than 150K miles would prove quite trouble free, wouldn't be fashionable though

JustLen

JustLen wrote: »

Exactly, and in my case id be looking at the lower end of the market (Very lower as cut backs have had to be made:rolleyes:)

Me thinks a small engined handy car like a fiesta would work better. [EMAIL="...............@RoverJames"]...............@RoverJames[/EMAIL]- Thats a good point, if someone were spending more than 5/ 10k or whatever it may be on a car I think it doesnt make sense to sacrifice what you want in order to make marginal savings on fuel

Fiesta is a good bet, I take it you are spending €3000 to €5000 so and don't need a very big car? You should see well over 30mpg on one of them.

TestTransmission

FutureGuy wrote: »

Good post OP, was going to ask the same.

I do about 9000 km per year, with most of that done on the 5k to work every day and rarely on a motorway. Was looking at Ford Focus 2008/2009 diesels but now wondering of a petrol is a better choice?

Yes,much better for that mileage.It's not a 1.4 you have at the moment is it?

voxpop

FutureGuy wrote: »

Good post OP, was going to ask the same.

I do about 9000 km per year, with most of that done on the 5k to work every day and rarely on a motorway. Was looking at Ford Focus 2008/2009 diesels but now wondering of a petrol is a better choice?

If your only doing 9k km a year, why not get something nice. You could get a 01/02 525/530 for around 4/5k mark. That'll give you around 30mpg

Tea 1000

voxpop wrote: »

Petrols also have DMFs and their own issues. The EGR valve is a very simple valve and can be easily cleaned or blanked off. DPFs are not great if you are only doing town driving, but otherwise shouldnt cause an issue, plus they have only been introduced around 2004 so earlier than that and your fine.

A diesel car will cost less to run and will have a better resale value(only diesels and small petrols are selling now) - overall they are generally cheaper unless you are unlucky.

I dont know where these myths that diesels are hard and expensive to maintain have come from. Do some research and buy a good oldish diesel, treat it well and it will run for years without issue.

EGR valves can be by-passed, but you'll fail on emissions. Injectors are an issue on all diesels these days, they're not just expensive, but massively so. And the Diesel fuel in this country is crap.

voxpop

Tea 1000 wrote: »

EGR valves can be by-passed, but you'll fail on emissions. Injectors are an issue on all diesels these days, they're not just expensive, but massively so. And the Diesel fuel in this country is crap.

Wrong on the egr - emissions arent even checked in the NCT, its a smoke test.

Ive never had an injector fail in the 3 high mileage diesels Ive owned.


All cars, both petrol and diesel engines can have problems. Its just wrong to state that a diesel car will cost more in maintenance throughout it life than an equivalent petrol.
Just for example - E39s, all versions, have crappy cooling systems - but you never hear ppl saying, dont buy that E39, the cooling systems can fail and cook your engine - which happens more than you think. E39s (petrols) also have a DMF - again you dont get warned off an E39 with someone on the internet saying - oh its got a dmf which is expensive to replace.

Alot of ppl seem to have this blinkered attitude that diesel = expensive to maintain and petrol =cheap to maintain, probably due to them not knowing much about diesels and having driven petrol cars all their lives. In the end it all depends on the car and what state its in. Diesel cars can be very cheap to run and maintain if looked after.

FutureGuy

TestTransmission wrote: »

Yes,much better for that mileage.It's not a 1.4 you have at the moment is it?

Yes it is...however did you know

get_d_hand_in

Was just going to ask a similar question. I'm lookin to buy a new car next month. Thinkin of upgrading from a 1.6 petrol mazda 3 to the new 1.6 diesal mazda 3. The diesal costs about 1000 more but i calculate that this 1000 euro will be saved on tax over 3 years.

I do cica 15000km a year. Are the new diesal good as i've people say theres alot of problems with them. Whats the prob with them as regards driving in the town as refered to by Tea 1000.

Also lookin at a new golf but it depends on my resale/trade in value for my mazda. 07 hatchback 1.6 Petrol, few extras, alloys, spoiler, new tyres, tax till may. Hoping to get round 10000euro is that being optimistic.

Thanks for any advice:-)

voxpop

voxpop wrote: »

Ive never had an injector fail in the 3 high mileage diesels Ive owned.

Out of interest what were they and did you put all the miles on them?

voxpop

RoverJames wrote: »

Out of interest what were they and did you put all the miles on them?

Mk4 golf, Renault Leguna I , B6 Audi. I purchased each with over 100k miles. The legana has 162k miles. Not much problems with any of these.

Ive spent more on my E39(523i) in maintenance than all 3 cars above together

Is the Guna common rail?

voxpop

RoverJames wrote: »

Is the Guna common rail?

Do you know what - im not sure. Tax man and motorcheck suggest its a Dti so not common rail. Its up for sale if you are interested

pajor

Nobody seems to have mentioned the tax side of it. If your gettin a car thats older than 08, diesel doesn't seem worthwhile really. Even with the big fuel savings.

bladespin

voxpop wrote: »

Alot of ppl seem to have this blinkered attitude that diesel = expensive to maintain and petrol =cheap to maintain, probably due to them not knowing much about diesels and having driven petrol cars all their lives. In the end it all depends on the car and what state its in. Diesel cars can be very cheap to run and maintain if looked after.

Have to totally agree with that, I've clocked up some serious miles in diesels since I've been driving with very little ever going wrong on them.

Don't see how tax comes into it, if it's older than 08 it'll be the same rate diesel or petrol.

user1842

Do diesel engines make more noise than petrol engines?

Also are diesel engines way more complex than petrol engines?

ssmith6287

I went from petrol to diesel because I taught itd save me money. It costs more. Unless your doing 75mph on a motorway for 90% of your driving get a petrol. My tank often looses 50 miles of diesel doing a 2 mile spin because im starting and stopping every 10 seconds. And before you ask ive had it at my mechanic and the audi main dealer and the car is fine. Saying that Drogheda to Swords and back uses about 15 miles of diesel

ssmith6287

ssmith6287 wrote: »

My tank often looses 50 miles of diesel doing a 2 mile spin ............ Saying that Drogheda to Swords and back uses about 15 miles of diesel

I thought the 60 miles to a tenner was a sh1t way of dicussing fuel usage :pac:

Wudyaquit

$100 a barrell oil is a near certainty this year and probably higher. This will push prices of both up and make fuel costs a bigger proportion of the spend. All of the effects listed above (tax changes etc.) are likely to be more pronounced over the next few years, so diesel will get progressively more attractive.

Wudyaquit

Wudyaquit wrote: »

All of the effects listed above (tax changes etc.) are likely to be more pronounced over the next few years, so diesel will get progressively more attractive.

As it does the government folks will no doubt seek their pound of flesh from diesel drivers perhaps by a revised private motor tax rate on diesel cars. They won't be loosing out anyway, they simply can't afford to.

Folks running pre 2008 diesels may well be in the best position longterm me thinks, if they don't mind not keeping up with the Jones'

Tea 1000

voxpop wrote: »

Mk4 golf, Renault Leguna I , B6 Audi. I purchased each with over 100k miles. The legana has 162k miles. Not much problems with any of these.

Ive spent more on my E39(523i) in maintenance than all 3 cars above together

I meant modern diesels, not the ancient 1.9 VAG unit. That's reliable enough, but I couldn't live with it's limitations.
Modern diesels are not that reliable. You won't convince me otherwise.

bladespin

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I meant modern diesels, not the ancient 1.9 VAG unit. That's reliable enough, but I couldn't live with it's limitations.
Modern diesels are not that reliable. You won't convince me otherwise.

Do you mean to say that a new Mondeo, Passat, Octavia, Avansis, Accord etc diesel isn't reliable?

bladespin

bladespin wrote: »

Do you mean to say that a new Mondeo, Passat, Octavia, Avansis, Accord etc diesel isn't reliable?

They won't be as reliable, too much stuff that can and does go wrong, after a few years of course.

bladespin

RoverJames wrote: »

They won't be as reliable, too much stuff that can and does go wrong, after a few years of course.

Not sure I'd fully agree about that, from what I've seen (limited TBH) it's the petrol models of the above that give the most trouble

Tea 1000

RoverJames wrote: »

They won't be as reliable, too much stuff that can and does go wrong, after a few years of course.

That's exactly it, after a few years. They're all very recommendable brand new. But I can only afford used ones, and I do my best to find a very well minded one, even then my faith goes out of them over 80k miles. You can be lucky and get 150k miles with no trouble, but chances are you'll have to spend a few hundred with the possibility of a grand or two.
Petrols are largely trouble free in those models.
Manufacturers "long life" crap isn't helping, 30,000 kms without a service is too long in my book.

squod

If you're using you car for short local runs then by petrol. If you're commuting or doing longer runs (10 mile say) then go diesel imo.

Green Hornet

dmclean1842 wrote: »

Do diesel engines make more noise than petrol engines?

They used to be very noisy but I've an Accord diesel and it's pretty quiet but some diesel cars are noisy enough, even now. Inside I think diesels are just as quiet as petrol, maybe even quieter due to low revs at cruising speed as diesels tend to be larger engine size.

bladespin

Tea 1000 wrote: »

You can be lucky and get 150k miles with no trouble, but chances are you'll have to spend a few hundred with the possibility of a grand or two.

The same can be said for any petrol car, by 150k you could be looking at replacing suspension, clutches, possible gearbox etc.

bladespin

bladespin wrote: »

Not sure I'd fully agree about that, from what I've seen (limited TBH) it's the petrol models of the above that give the most trouble

Ok
Well on boards Unkel knows some dude who had to cough up €2500 for a DMF and timing belt service on a just out of warranty Hyundai I30 or similar

Also some other chap commented this week on a turbo replacement on an 07 Octavia costing €3000.

Also we're not on about looking at replacing suspension, clutches, possible gearbox etc by 150K, we're on about the stuff that a petrol doesn't have. Also you can add in injector trouble and possible catastrophic failure of the entire fuel system too, the buddy had that on his 07 Disco, not nice at all

So........... what stuff have you seen on modern petrols?

bladespin

RoverJames wrote: »

So........... what stuff have you seen on modern petrols?

Two words: Twin Spark