Looking for Katherine Clarkin of Co. Sligo

SaintDrogo

Hello all. I seem to have hit a stumbling block in my efforts to trace an irish birth certificate for my grandmother. Her name was Katherine Clarkin born August 15, 1893 in or around Ballysumaghan, Ballintogher to Peter Clarkin and Mary Kilcullin. She came to the U.S. in 1912. She had 2 brothers who also came to the U.S. Peter Clarkin was born Sep. 10, 1885 (came to America in 1909) and John Clarkin who was born March 3?, 1894 (came to America in 1915). She also had sisters Mamie and Agnes but I am unsure of their date of birth. I have scoured the LDS's Civil Registration Indexes to no avail. This appears to be her family in the 1901 census but ages don't exactly correspond: www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Sligo/Ballynakill/Ballysunaghan/1682937/ Any help would be immensely appreciated.

shanew

The townland of Ballysumaghan is in the registration district of Sligo.

I searched for Charles first, as the youngest child usually has the most accurate age - and found a good match as Clerkin.

Name: Charles Clerkin
Reg. District:Sligo
Event Type: Birth
Quarter and Year: Jan - Mar 1900
volume :2 / page : 274

searching for Katherine under that surname variation gives a possible match :

Name: Kate Clerkin
Registration District: Sligo
Event Type: Birth
Quarter and Year: Oct - Dec 1892
Volume : 2 / Page : 247

might be worth trying certs for those to see if the parents are correct..

p.s. if you look at the census form details filled in by father Peter the surname looks like it's Clerkin, although in his signature it looks like Clarkin...


Shane

SaintDrogo

Thank-you. I saw that listing earlier as well but I foolishly ruled it out since both her death and marriage certificates indicate 1893. I just spoke to an uncle--her son who is 89--who insisted that she was born in the same year as his father (i.e. 1892) so that seems to be credible. Further, the 1911 census is also Clerkin and has the youngest sibling Agnes listed who I've been able to find an index listing for. Many of the siblings are in the index under quite a few variants of the name (Clearkin, Clarkin, and Clerkin). Their census listings strike me as odd to say the least. Peter ages 22 years, Mary 18, son Francis (who incidentally I can find nowhere in the birth indexes but he did come over to the states later) only ages 6.

p.s. Out of curiosity, does anyone know if there was some sort of Irish language solidarity program at the time which would explain why several of the younger children are the only ones listed as speaking Irish and English?

pinkypinky

The 1890s and 1900s saw a huge revival in speaking and learning Irish in parallel with the rise of the nationalist movement which eventually led to the Easter Rising in 1916 and then home rule and the foundation of the Free State. Prior to that time, people would not have known Irish unless they spoke it from birth in Gaeltacht areas (if you look, for example, at Kerry on the census, you'll see the vast majority of people speak both and some who only speak Irish, though they are usually elderly).

pinkypinky

shanew wrote: »

p.s. if you look at the census form details filled in by father Peter the surname looks like it's Clerkin, although in his signature it looks like Clarkin...


Shane

Looking at the Rs, I would guess the enumerator filled it out and Peter just signed it.

Worth remembering that cannot take ages or spelling as gospel prior to about 1930. I have certs where the same surname has different spellings for the bride and then one of the witnesses. Agewise - it simply wasn't as relevant to know your exact age then - we use it now as an important identifer but they didn't then. With things like the pension act in 1908, it became more important.

SaintDrogo

Well I'm having absolutely no luck with this. Called County Sligo and they were unable to find a Kate Clerkin, Clarkin, or Clearkin with a mother's maiden name of Kilcullen anywhere. They did find a Mary Clearkin but the mother's maiden name is Killcolm. Any chance m's and n's are interchangeable? I've also seen a marriage certificate of one of my grandmother's sisters who records her name as Clarkim. This is exasperating. I can understand the birthdate inconsistency, but this complete lack of name coherence is leading me nowhere.

pinkypinky

Who did you call in Sligo? The index link Shane gave you is a good bet.

SaintDrogo

I called the civil registration office. The fellow at the office e-mailed me a reply that he couldn't find a Kate Clerkin. I forwarded him the index listing, but I haven't received a reply yet. I need this certificate for Foreign Births Registration so I can relocate to Ireland. I have contacted the diocese archivist to see if he can locate any baptismal register. Supposing for whatever reason her birth was never registered (this seems really strange considering the size of her family and the fact that she travelled to America? Didn't people require some kind of registration in order to get a passport in those days) do you know if a baptismal registration would ever suffice as proof of Irish birth?

shanew

the index references refer to the overall Ireland Index as used by GRO head office (Dublin & Roscommon). I believe regional indexes use different references.

Your best bet is ordering a research cert from the GRO.



Shane

jester77

SaintDrogo wrote: »

Hello all. I seem to have hit a stumbling block in my efforts to trace an irish birth certificate for my grandmother. Her name was Katherine Clarkin born August 15, 1893 in or around Ballysumaghan, Ballintogher to Peter Clarkin and Mary Kilcullin. She came to the U.S. in 1912. She had 2 brothers who also came to the U.S. Peter Clarkin was born Sep. 10, 1885 (came to America in 1909) and John Clarkin who was born March 3?, 1894 (came to America in 1915). She also had sisters Mamie and Agnes but I am unsure of their date of birth. I have scoured the LDS's Civil Registration Indexes to no avail. This appears to be her family in the 1901 census but ages don't exactly correspond: www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Sligo/Ballynakill/Ballysunaghan/1682937/ Any help would be immensely appreciated.

Can't really help you, but I can say that I have family who were born around that time in the census and who's ages didn't add up. It turns out that it was not unusual back then to have wrong ages on the census due to pension reasons.

SaintDrogo

The LDS site has file image numbers listed so perhaps I will see if I can look at the records on microfiche at the local LDS Family Research Centre. Thank you again for your help.

AHD

Here is Katherine and a few others I think..

Name: Kate Clerkin
Registration District: Sligo
Event Type: BIRTHS
Registration Quarter and Year: Oct - Dec 1892
Estimated Birth Year:
Age (at Death):
Mother's Maiden Name:
Film Number: 101064
Volume Number: 2
Page Number: 247
Digital Folder Number: 4193978
Image Number: 00252

Name: Owen Clerkin
Registration Quarter and Year: Jan - Mar 1894

Peter Clerkin
birth: Oct - Dec 1894 — Sligo OR
birth: Jan - Mar 1896 — Sligo


Rose Anna Clerkin
birth: Jul - Sep 1896 — Sligo

Charles CLERKIN
birth: Jan - Mar 1900 — Sligo


In the 1901 census there is a 14 year old shop assistant called Peter in Ballintogher Town. His birthplace is given as Sovey, Sligo. Could this be your Peter? This could be Sooey in Sligo. Clerkins still live there today.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Sligo/Ballintogher_East/Ballintogher_Town/1682059/

Here are the family in 1901. Kate is listed as 11. I wouldn't worry about the ages. It seems the family were completely unsure of their ages as is seen from the parents ages. Beware of any multiple of 5 in the census. Often parents are an even 30 or 40 for simplicity sake but simple maths proves this to be wrong. I think Peter gains an impressive 22 years within 10 years and Mary 18. This kind of inaccuracy is very common.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003871835/

So the family are:
Peter Clerkin/Clarkin marries Mary Kilcullin
Children:
Patrick
James
John
Kate
Eliza
Bridget
Owen
Michael
Francis
Rose Anne
Charles
Agnes

Stick Peter in there somewhere and we're just missing 1 child.

Griffiths Valuation 1858 heads of family

Clerken James Kiltycloghan Ballysumaghan Sligo
Clerken Peter Kiltycloghan Ballysumaghan Sligo
Clerken Peter Lavally Ballysumaghan Sligo
Clerken Thady Kiltycloghan Ballysumaghan Sligo
Clerkin Francis Drumee Ballysumaghan Sligo
Clerkin Peter Drumee Ballysumaghan Sligo
Clerkin Thady Drumee Ballysumaghan Sligo

Sligo Tithe Applotment Book 1824
Parish of Ballysummaghan

Barony of Tirerrill,

Co. Sligo

Drumine:
Dominick Clerkin
Widow Clerkin
Patrick Clerkin
Thady Clerkin

Calthycloughan:
Thady Clerkin

Hope this link works...it's Peter in Ellis Island 1914
http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup_weif_5a.asp?src=%2Fcgi-bin%2Ftif2gif.exe%3FT%3D\\\\192.168.100.11\\images\\T715-2298\\T715-22981173.TIF%26S%3D.5&pID=100438180028&name=Peter%26nbsp%3BClerkin&doa=Apr+18%2C+1914&port=Queenstown&line=0028

This is Mollie in 1909

http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup_weif_5a.asp?src=%2Fcgi-bin%2Ftif2gif.exe%3FT%3D\\\\192.168.100.11\\images\\T715-1249\\T715-12490064.TIF%26S%3D.5&pID=101576020076&name=Mollie%26nbsp%3BClerkin&doa=Apr+21%2C+1909&port=Queenstown&line=0016

Francis 1923
http://www.ellisisland.org/search/shipmanifest.asp?MID=01462061360916594432&LNM=CLERKIN&PLNM=CLERKIN&first_kind=1&last_kind=0&TOWN=null&SHIP=null&RF=103&pID=602245080008

SaintDrogo

Thanks again for all of the assistance. I finally received the register for the index listed above (volume 2, page 247) and, alas it is not the correct Kate Clerkin. Parents are Owen and Joanna (nee Scanlon). Perhaps a cousin. This is all the more aggravating since I previously ended up viewing this same Kate Clerkin's baptismal record. Am I out of luck? Do any of you know if Ballysumaghan would fall under the Ballintogher or Riverstown Roman Catholic Parishes?

EDIT: This is immensely frustrating. It's almost as if she didn't exist. Not only can I find nothing for her in the Civil Registration indexes, I can't find her in the IFHF database of Riverstown Roman Catholic Baptisms. I can easily locate most of her siblings civil registration and baptismal records.

heidiresk

i can check the ellis island info if you like,
who came to america and when? what was their name when they left ireland, married?
did the parents come also?

Alicat

Any chance 'Kate' is not her birth name? My Nan was called Bernadette all of her life, turns out she's actually Margaret, Bernadette was a middle name.

SaintDrogo

I finally found her after sending a request to the GRO. Apparently she was actually born in 1888. On her birth registration her father's name is listed as Clerichan which explains why I couldn't find her under any of the common variants, but the information (i.e. her mother) is listed as Mary Clearkin nee Kilcullen.

FionaCM

SaintDrogo wrote: »

Thanks again for all of the assistance. I finally received the register for the index listed above (volume 2, page 247) and, alas it is not the correct Kate Clerkin. Parents are Owen and Joanna (nee Scanlon). Perhaps a cousin. This is all the more aggravating since I previously ended up viewing this same Kate Clerkin's baptismal record. Am I out of luck? Do any of you know if Ballysumaghan would fall under the Ballintogher or Riverstown Roman Catholic Parishes?

EDIT: This is immensely frustrating. It's almost as if she didn't exist. Not only can I find nothing for her in the Civil Registration indexes, I can't find her in the IFHF database of Riverstown Roman Catholic Baptisms. I can easily locate most of her siblings civil registration and baptismal records.

Would they have had any connection with Monaghan Clerkins?