The HSE just unilaterally cut NCHDs annual leave by TWO WHOLE WEEKS PER ANNUM!

Jane5

Just got this from the IMO. They have taken two weeks of our annual leave away. (one week per six months). The training grant is gone. Our overtime is not being paid, but is still being worked. (See link below):

http://www.imo.ie/IMOPage_2_13.aspx?ID=2424&No=0


This is the email I received. They unilaterally cut TWO weeks per year from our annual leave. In addition to the training grant being axed. In addition to non-payment of overtime. Are there still people out there who will not strike? What in God's name are the IMO DOING? Is this a ploy to boost flagging IMO membership? Or is this for real? Has it happened to anyone out there, have management told you your annual leave was cut by two weeks? Check your contracts.



"Dear Doctor
As NCHDs will be aware, since implementation of the new NCHD contract in 2010 the HSE has sought to unilaterally change NCHDs’ contractual entitlement in respect of annual leave to 12 working days leave per six months and a day off on the day the public holiday falls instead of the long established 3 weeks annual leave.
The IMO position is unambiguous- NCHDs as 5/7 workers are entitled to 12 working days plus days in lieu of the liability for being rostered on a public holiday amounting to 3 weeks leave per 6 months. On foot of protracted discussions on this issue, the HSE finally agreed to reinstate 3 weeks annual leave to NCHDs in August 2010. In the interim further discussions have taken place on the issue but despite no agreement having been reached to date the HSE has chosen to once again unilaterally breach the NCHD contract by issuing a memo to Medical Manpower Managers reducing NCHDs annual leave from 3 weeks to 12 days leave with public holidays off as they arise. This action by the HSE is totally unacceptable to the IMO and we are currently considering our options in this regard including a possible ballot for industrial action.
We note from our records that you are not currently a member of the IMO. The robust defence of NCHDs by the IMO during the 2009 dispute which included 2 High Court cases was hugely dependent on a very strong NCHD membership representative of all NCHDs nationwide. It was this high level of representation that provided the NCHD negotiating team with the necessary bargaining power to negotiate on your behalf. In this regard the IMO calls on all NCHD to stand in solidarity with your colleagues by joining the IMO and supporting the efforts to defend NCHD entitlements.
An email will issue to NCHDs as soon as we have further information.
Yours sincerely
Shirley Coulter
Assistant Director
Industrial Relations"

Biologic

I'll have them post my degree to NZ so. I'm getting out of here the second I qualify.

tightropetom

Biologic wrote: »

I'll have them post my degree to NZ so. I'm getting out of here the second I qualify.

A lot to be said for it. I'm working in the UK and we still get 3 weeks plus study leave per six months. We also get 2 days off the week after working a weekend on call.

xenosaga

Biologic wrote: »

I'll have them post my degree to NZ so. I'm getting out of here the second I qualify.

good choice.. was working in ireland before a year and then fed up with the |bull**** and come to nz.. telling ya way better here

kelle

:eek:

That is appalling!

Is it any wonder the hospitals are having difficulty filling their vacancies every 6 months!!!!

Soon, there will be NO applicants for the vacancies - the HSE will have shot themselves in the foot.

xenosaga

kelle wrote: »

:eek:

That is appalling!

Is it any wonder the hospitals are having difficulty filling their vacancies every 6 months!!!!

Soon, there will be NO applicants for the vacancies - the HSE will have shot themselves in the foot.

HSE had been pretty sure with their decision of implementing all these new regulations simply saying that even though many docs will be frustrated and will leave ireland, they still have tons of new applicants from other countries such as pakistan/ india whom they know the working condition over there is way worse..

HSE wouldnt care less whether they will be losing senior/ irish docs, as long as the vacancies are filled, they had done their job :mad:

drfrank

Yes this has happened.

Jane5 - What would you have the IMO do ? Take industrial action ? Would you participate in industrial action ? are you aware that as a non-member you would effectively be unable to participate in industrial action ?

Do you think it fair that members of the IMO should shoulder all the hardship of industrial action ?

If the IMO membership were to successfully gain improved Ts&Cs through industrial action, having incurred financial loss etc, should non-members be awarded these imrpoved terms ?

As an IMO member I do find myself frustrated with non-member colleagues effectively 'leaching' off the fee paying members.

I recognise the shortcomings of the IMO, however without the IMO things would be much worse. The IMO has had several recent victories all of which have come through the hard work of Shirley Coulter, the NCHD committee and the IMO membership. The most recent of which relates to your comment of unpaid overtime. Recently, Sean McGrath (director of HR) made a staggering climb down over unpaid overtime and directed all Medical Manpower Managers to pay ALL signed off overtime (rostered or unrostered) and with immediate effect to cease any overtime 'quota' systems - A HUGELY SIGNIFICANT VICTORY. This has come about purely through the work of the IMO.

Jane5 I can see that you are hugely passionate about NCHDs, so why not join the IMO and get involved ? Instead of being a keyboard warrior why not become an IMO activist ? Come to the meetings, get on the committees and make a difference - you certainly sound like you could !

resus

Very simple: I just informed HR that if they unilaterally took away my weeks holidays, I would resign.

That would leave an A&E with 2 Full-time Registrars out of quota of 6! They would have no choice but to rehire my position on Locum pay, costing them more money.

They backed down...

You don't need an ineffective IMO, you just need balls.

RobFowl

Hi DrFrank
I'm a GP and an IMO member and for the past year most of their energy (publicly at least) has been to prevent open access to the GMS scheme scheme and to oppose the morning after pill being available directly from pharmacies.

Both of these I am quite opposed to.

My point is I find your calling Jane5 a "sponger" frankly offensive and it's this sort of attitude which is driving doctors away from the IMO.

Jessibelle

WOW! I'm not a Dr or indeed a member of the IMO but I would wonder as to the legality of the HSE being allowed do that! Surely NCHDS and all affected are entitled to statuatory holidays as outlined in their contracts without cuts unless consulted same as any public sector worker?

opinion guy

drfrank wrote: »

Yes this has happened.

Jane5 - What would you have the IMO do ? Take industrial action ? Would you participate in industrial action ? are you aware that as a non-member you would effectively be unable to participate in industrial action ?

Do you think it fair that members of the IMO should shoulder all the hardship of industrial action ?

If the IMO membership were to successfully gain improved Ts&Cs through industrial action, having incurred financial loss etc, should non-members be awarded these imrpoved terms ?

As an IMO member I do find myself frustrated with non-member colleagues effectively 'sponging' off the fee paying members.

I recognise the shortcomings of the IMO, however without the IMO things would be much worse. The IMO has had several recent victories all of which have come through the hard work of Shirley Coulter, the NCHD committee and the IMO membership. The most recent of which relates to your comment of unpaid overtime. Recently, Sean McGrath (director of HR) made a staggering climb down over unpaid overtime and directed all Medical Manpower Managers to pay ALL signed off overtime (rostered or unrostered) and with immediate effect to cease any overtime 'quota' systems - A HUGELY SIGNIFICANT VICTORY. This has come about purely through the work of the IMO.

Jane5 I can see that you are hugely passionate about NCHDs, so why not join the IMO and get involved ? Instead of being a keyboard warrior why not become an IMO activist ? Come to the meetings, get on the committees and make a difference - you certainly sound like you could !

Lol...I see the IMO have begun watching boards.ie

imported_guy

HSE dont really care, they've decide to import doctors yet again from india and pakistan by fiddling with visa requirements, they dont really give a crap about IMO or irish graduates anymore, ah well.

drfrank

Sorry for causing any offence with the term 'sponging'
I have edited the term sponging as found in my original post for the term leaching, which rather than being a derogatory term, is simply a physical process.

I hope this is ok !

Yes, I can confirm that I am a fully paid up member of the IMO.

I am interested though in people's thoughts as to what action should be taken ?

Is industrial action accepted ?

It is all very well for non-members to say that the IMO is spineless, when all the non-members calling for action cannot even take part.

BTW I can FULLY appreciate people's frustrations regarding the IMO, it is not perfect. I would say to anyone unhappy with the IMO to come to a meeting, have your say and make a difference. It is all too easy to sit at the keyboard and whinge, why not get up and make a difference. The IMO is only as good/strong as its membership. The NCHDs who post on here (IMO members & non-members) are obviously passionate about the NCHD grade, surely we should be united through a single voice (the IMO) and show our strength.

Yes I know the fees are VERY high particularly in these recent times but how much is 2 weeks annual leave worth to you ? How much is your unrostered overtime being paid worth to you !

sam34

drfrank wrote: »

Yes I know the fees are VERY high particularly in these recent times

the fees are ridiculously high. it was dearer for me to be in the IMO as an SpR than it now is for me to be in the IHCA, despite me now having a significantly higher salary.

Traumadoc

Plus you can tax deduct IHCA from other earnings.

Vorsprung

*runs off to convince the missus to stay in Oz

Traumadoc

This will increase the difference between average pay between woletime and locum staff.

If you are a locum you are not entitled to holiday/sick leave, if full time staff have paid leave cut then there is less reason not to do the same job but at locum rates- so I have several NCHDs who resigned and are back doing the same job at locum rates.:o

drfrank

RobFowl and others....

I have a question-

Hypothetically speaking......

If the IMO was to sanction industrial action and through this industrial action the members of the IMO managed to get the training grant reinstated in full, annual leave restored and the higher degree allowance restored, should non-IMO members receive these benefits ?

The IMO members have (hypothetically speaking) been out on strike, had pay deducted, potentially fallen out with seniors etc, whilst the non-IMO members have done nothing. Should they receive the benefits.

Are the non-IMO members taking advantage of their IMO colleagues ?

Indeed, would the non-members with such principles refuse to accept the enhanced contract ?

Would non-members be upset if only IMO members were awarded the enhanced terms ?

I can appreciate the upset I may have caused in terming non-members spongers (hence my edit), however I'm sure everyone can understand the potential for some resentment towards non-members who have sat back and allowed their colleagues to endure potential hardship for their gain !

The IMO is much more than IR, RobFowl I can see you are and avid cyclist, would you be interested in contributing to the IMO's policy on health initiatives with regard to cycling. Lobbying from groups such as the IMO may improve the provisions for cyclists.

Together the NCHD population and IMO can wield some power !

opinion guy

drfrank wrote: »

would you be interested in contributing to the IMO's policy on health initiatives with regard to cycling

So it seems then that you're in a position to offer Robfowl an input into an IMO initiative then are you ?

This is seriously depressing. It's looking increasingly likely that I am going to become one of the many HSE refugees when I graduate.

Traumadoc

resus wrote: »

Very simple: I just informed HR that if they unilaterally took away my weeks holidays, I would resign.

That would leave an A&E with 2 Full-time Registrars out of quota of 6! They would have no choice but to rehire my position on Locum pay, costing them more money.

They backed down...

You don't need an ineffective IMO, you just need balls.

I did similar as an NCHD- threatened hospital CEO with legal action , paid moneys owed in 3 days after waiting 2 years and being fibbed off every time.

drfrank

opinion guy wrote: »

So it seems then that you're in a position to offer Robfowl an input into an IMO initiative then are you ?

A slightly pedantic reply opinion guy ? !

As I'm sure you know EVERY member of the IMO is in a position to offer an initiative !

opinion guy

drfrank wrote: »

A slightly pedantic reply opinion guy ? !

As I'm sure you know EVERY member of the IMO is in a position to offer an initiative !

Stop being evasive.
Straight question. Are you involved in the IMO beyond the level of an ordinary member? Are you an IMO rep ? Are you on an IMO committee ? Are you an an employee of the IMO ?

Hi guys, (outsider looking in here)

But am I right in saying the've cut down 6 weeks holidays per annum to 4 weeks?

dissed doc

drfrank wrote: »

RobFowl and others....

I have a question-

Hypothetically speaking......

If the IMO was to sanction industrial action and through this industrial action the members of the IMO managed to get the training grant reinstated in full, annual leave restored and the higher degree allowance restored, should non-IMO members receive these benefits ?

Yes they should, and it would be illegal for them not to get the same benefits.

The 1941 Trade Union Act enshrines the IMO has being the sole body through which negotations with state employers can take place for doctors. It would be illegal to claim to represent doctors for employment contracts and then have them without legal representation for the terms or agreements for the contracts.

That you are suggesting it, indicates that perhaps the IMO is only interested in doctors that stuff the IMO reps mouths with gold with €1000/year membership fees - unaffordable after the IMO let so many salary cuts through. .

I am of the opinion, that the solution is for the IMO to disband it's entirely useless committees, meetings and management structure, for the fee for every registered doctor on the medical council to be the total of €5 a year to cover some postage, and you will have every doctor in the country at every meeting.

Out of the entire medical group, elect doctors as those who will represent doctors; not cow-towing management and committee whores who have driven back every advance over the past decade.

The best thing for the IMO is to no longer exist. By not joining and not paying (and in many cases not being able to afford to pay) we are giving a clear message: YOU DO NOT REPRESENT A LARGE MAJORITY OF DOCTORS.

The HSE uses the IMO like the NHS used the BMA. There is no difference. A doctors union must be

a) virtually free to join
b) run by doctors
c) be ready to strike and basically hold the entire service to ransom - as the standards and practice in muchg of the country are going to **** so Harney and her bought-off IMO management types can induce privatisation and exposure of the country to US health insurance companies.

Instead, the HSE and IMO have every doctor fighting each other - including by the IMO charging such high fees. Stop all cases, sotp it all. You don't represent those you claim to.

The IMO members have (hypothetically speaking) been out on strike, had pay deducted, potentially fallen out with seniors etc, whilst the non-IMO members have done nothing. Should they receive the benefits.

Are the non-IMO members taking advantage of their IMO colleagues ?

The IMO has taken advantage of all doctors by claiming to represent them in law, preventing other doctors unions from taking proper action historically and is now successully working with the HSE to destroy the public health service for Ireland, forever.

The IMO MUST BY LAW REPRESENT ALL DOCTORS. You have no choice, unless you give up the provisions of the 1941 Act - and soon enough, you would find everyone in another new union, with free membership gunning for the IMO and HSE managers and reps that have destroyed the Irish health service.

Give up the 1941 Act, and the doctors can negotiate with the HSE themselves, collectively, and not waste time fighting abotu who paid money to a useless middleman like the IMO.

Together the NCHD population and IMO can wield some power !

THe NCHD population can wield power, the IMO keeps it divided and that is what the HSE and goverment want, just as in the BMA in the UK and the AMA in the US. What is happening in Ireland is not new. If the IMO continues, and keeps NCHDs divided by simply existing, we will never have a truly national union, or a truly national public health service.

Without a single entire union encompassing all doctors, we will never have a single entire health service. The medical council is already the only non-medically run medical coiuncil in the western world - for a reason. To dismantle a health service, you must dismantle any collective action by doctors. Other disciplines fall in line with extra management grades as rewards.

IMO : it's time to stop living in 1941. We need a free to join union, with doctors on the negotiating committee, and open season on the HSE.

ThatDrGuy

An aside but.... just moved to NZ. Its fcuking awesome here. You dont believe what a first world health service is like until you work in one. I get all my holidays no problem and im not rostered for two or three calls in the middle of them! Get over here guys, to hell with the IMO, the best they will do is slow the decline.

opinion guy

Damn dissed doc thats a quality rant.
Kudos!!

dissed doc

opinion guy wrote: »

Damn dissed doc thats a quality rant.
Kudos!!

It irritates me when I see stuff dividing people; the paying member of the IMO is as much a medical colleague and peer as the non-paying member.

If the law allowed another union to negotiate, the IMO most likely wouldn't exist for very long.

Papa Smut

Papa Smut wrote: »

Hi guys, (outsider looking in here)

But am I right in saying the've cut down 6 weeks holidays per annum to 4 weeks?

Anyone?

drfrank

I'm not being evasive !

It is quite simple, every IMO member has the opportunity to change, initiate or oppose any policy at the AGM.

I am a member of the IMO and a rep and I am proud to say that I have been in a position to help NCHDs with issues at various hospitals around the country in which I have worked.

The IMO isn't perfect but as someone pointed out it is all we have, so why not get on board and make a change.

dissed doc

drfrank wrote: »

I'm not being evasive !

It is quite simple, every IMO member has the opportunity to change, initiate or oppose any policy at the AGM.

I am a member of the IMO and a rep and I am proud to say that I have been in a position to help NCHDs with issues at various hospitals around the country in which I have worked.

The IMO isn't perfect but as someone pointed out it is all we have, so why not get on board and make a change.

Issues? Don't talk to me about issues.

The IMO is all we have because the goverment replicated the Trade Union laws of the UK in 1941 to package up the doctors into a malleable group. Doctors are prevented by this archaic law from forming a new union to represent them.

By charging huge fees, you prevent many doctors from joining.

A doctor led, free-to-join and democratically elected negotation committee in a new union is the only good solution. Giving the IMO a €1000 a year so you can have some f u cking committee meetings and shout it out at each other, instead of aiming for the HSE, is "Union Management 101" from the 1930s.

The IMO only exists because an archaic 1941 law allows it to; the same law prevents other doctors forming a new union to represent themselves and negotiate. The IMO is killing Irish medicine and healthcare.

Traumadoc

1000 euro, :eek: looks like it is not only the HSE taking you for a ride.

2Scoops

That's what you can expect when you spend over 2 million a year on wages alone.

Biologic

Papa Smut wrote: »

Hi guys, (outsider looking in here)

But am I right in saying the've cut down 6 weeks holidays per annum to 4 weeks?

+1. What do the holidays currently stand at (after the change, assuming it's applied)?

Vorsprung

It's in the OP lads.EDIT actually in hindsight maybe it doesn't answer Papa Smut's question, not sure what exactly the leave entitlements are (not sure how many public holidays come into the equation).

The IMO position is unambiguous- NCHDs as 5/7 workers are entitled to 12 working days plus days in lieu of the liability for being rostered on a public holiday amounting to 3 weeks leave per 6 months. On foot of protracted discussions on this issue, the HSE finally agreed to reinstate 3 weeks annual leave to NCHDs in August 2010

drfrank

The apathy shown on here astounds me.

So disseddoc you are upset by an archaic law preventing any other union other than the IMO from representing docs, Have you looked into getting it changed ?

If the law was to be changed would you get involved union with an alternative union ?

The fees are high with the IMO but I don't think your free to join union would last too long. How will you pay the legal teams to represent you ? How will you pay the person who answers the phones ? How will you pay for your PR ? How will you pay for publishing costs ? (the list goes on) Whilst you maybe a fantastic doctor, I suspect your knowledge of Industrial Relations, Contract law etc may not be too hot (though I'm prepared to stand corrected) so I would be intrigued as to how you would approach issues with the HSE, who will you consult ? How will you pay ? Will you give up your job and head the union ? Will you want paying ? How can this be done when there are no subscription fees ?

Your fantasy union sounds great, unfortunately we are in the real world and everything has a price !

I, as every doc is, am keen to learn and take on new information. What should the IMO be doing ? How would your union do things ? Where is the IMO going wrong ?

It is so easy to be an armchair unionist but sometimes you have to step up to the mark and put your money where your mouth is ! Why not join the IMO & push through a motion regarding reducing subscription fees, use this platform and tell us where the IMO is failing NCHDs. Or is it easier to simply tap away on a keyboard, belittle even the slightest good that the IMO has done and feel better about yourself ?

2Scoops

If it's so easy to change union policies, drfrank, can I assume you agree with the way things are being done currently? Including the fees? Here are the most recent accounts lest anyone think their money is being well spent.

drfrank

2scoops, you must have failed to have read my previous posts prior to jumping on the bash the IMO band wagon.

Just take a couple of clicks on your mouse and have a look at them. I've already said that the fees are VERY high and I also accepted that the IMO is far from perfect.

So your point is what exactly ?

With regard to the breakdown of accounts, of course there are things that members will be less than pleased about, what you have however highlighted is the the ridiculous notion that a union can charge no subscription fees, did you see the amount spent on legal fees !

drfrank

At no point did I suggest changing union policy as easy !

Every such organisation will have a constitution and by following due process every member can potentially make a difference.

Some hardwork may be involved.

Would you be interested in joining the IMO, proposing a motion to reduce subs, getting it seconded, campaigning and perhaps bringing about a vote amongst the NCHD members ? You may succeed in reducing fees for NCHDs permanently. Unfortunately it cannot be done from the comfort of home, sacrifices would have to be made, time and energy spent, would you be up for this ?

2Scoops

drfrank wrote: »

So your point is what exactly ?

My point is that joining the union in an attempt to 'change it from within' is a futile and expensive folly.

drfrank wrote: »

With regard to the breakdown of accounts, of course there are things that members will be less than pleased about, what you have however highlighted is the the ridiculous notion that a union can charge no subscription fees

I think union fees can at least be halved. Alternatively, it should merge with a larger union. I don't think the IMO can continue on its present course, though.

drfrank wrote: »

did you see the amount spent on legal fees !

I saw that it was less than a third of what they spend on a staff of less than 25 people.

2Scoops

drfrank wrote: »

Would you be interested in joining the IMO, proposing a motion to reduce subs, getting it seconded, campaigning and perhaps bringing about a vote amongst the NCHD members ? You may succeed in reducing fees for NCHDs permanently. Unfortunately it cannot be done from the comfort of home, sacrifices would have to be made, time and energy spent, would you be up for this ?

No, because I believe the democratic will of the IMO would reject the idea and I'd be down 1000 euro for the year.

drfrank

Well if your not prepared to put the hardwork in.......

I'm still waiting to hear the strategies of the the new union, how is it going to benefit the NCHD masses ?

drfrank

So if the the IMO membership democratically votes against your motion then you will simply take your toys home ?

What is your understanding of democracy ?

2Scoops

drfrank wrote: »

So if the the IMO membership democratically votes against your motion then you will simply take your toys home ?

What is your understanding of democracy ?

The IMO can do whatever it collectively wishes. :pac:

2Scoops

drfrank wrote: »

Well if your not prepared to put the hardwork in.......

Hard work has nothing to do with it. I could campaign for eternity but would you vote for a 50% reduction in fees? I must warn, it means you wouldn't be able to spend as much on PR...

drkpower

drfrank wrote: »

did you see the amount spent on legal fees !

How in gods' name did they spend €850,000 in 2009 in legal fees?????:eek::mad: What the hell where they doing?

drfrank

I would vote for a reduction in fees. If you can demonstrate that there would be no reduction in service etc then I'm pretty sure NCHDs would vote for it.

I would like to see your cost analysis on such a move (reduction 50%) and its potential impact across all facets of the IMO.

It would involve a little hardwork though !

Not sure it could be done with a click of your mouse or a tap on a keyboard

2Scoops

drfrank wrote: »

I would vote for a reduction in fees. If you can demonstrate that there would be no reduction in service etc then I'm pretty sure NCHDs would vote for it.

And what fine service we have been treated to of late! Can I expect the support of the higher-ups when I tell them I want to cut their pay? Or is it only ok when NCHD pay is cut? And are those junkets really necessary? They could save at least a few quid on postage by ending their pester mail to multiple former addresses of mine despite my multiple requests to stop. :pac:

Jane5

OMG, dissed doc, that was one of the best rants I have ever read! I'm awed!

drfrank, for the record, I was an IMO member, I emailed several times asking to be a rep when they were looking for them. They never replied. After several paycuts and the loss of the training grant, I decided I needed the hefty membership fees for training and books, and cancelled, as I could not afford both.

Now my view is that the IMO are in a very unfortunate Catch 22 situation, one from which they will likely not recover. On multiple occasions, over many years it has been demonstrated that they are ineffective. And they charge through the effing nose for this. Some paranoid types (such as myself) would postulate that they go along with the HSE's policies which appear to be geared towards destroying the public health service to install a fully private one.

So we have the situation where they may well need members to become effective, but no-one will ever join again because they are so ineffective and crap. Dissed doc is entirely correct in that they need to disband, and in fact it may well be the only course of action left to them in years to come as membership dwindles further. They will have to dissolve, and reform with new and more effective representation, in order to survive as a viable union at all.

Regardless, I will not join again. For all I know they deliberately allow this to happen from time to time to try to get more members. I no longer trust them and will spend my money on a) training and b) a solicitor if needed.

drfrank

WOW Jane5 this is an inflammatory statement !!!

".....Now my view is that the IMO are in a very unfortunate Catch 22 situation, one from which they will likely not recover. They have been shown to be completely ineffective at best, and corrupt and in league with the HSE's destructive policies...."

Corrupt how ?

Is there evidence to back up these claims ?

Any evidence of corruption must surely be brought to the attention of IMO members and those considering membership, no ?

I am genuinely interested !

If you would prefer not to publish them on an open forum, then please feel free to PM me with the details of corruption and I will endeavour to raise them at the next meeting.

Has anyone come up with any ideas/strategies for the new union yet ?

All I have encountered on this forum is negativity towards the IMO (that is personal choice), not one single person has put forward any sort of credible, constructive plan to enhance the Ts&Cs for NCHDs.
Everyone has complained about how ineffective the IMO is yet no one has come up with an alternative, other than a plan to start a new union (which is apparently illegal) that is free to join and will function some how on good will ?

If the IMO strategies are so poor, then please feel free to post your ideas !

Everyone is whinging but no one is doing !

Jane5 if the IMO got the training grant reinstated would you accept it ? A principled lady such as yourself would presumably turn it down, with it being won back through the hard work of a corrupt union ?

With regards to your attempt to be a rep, I rang and asked to get involved and I'm a rep.

Jumpy

Papa Smut wrote: »

Anyone?

You are doing it wrong.


You need to word it in confrontational statements. That way you get someone arguing their case to defend it.
In other words, they are complaining that their leave is being brought down to corporate world standards.

P.S - To those planning migrations, you wont even get four weeks in any of the usual haunts.

Four weeks leave in Australia is luxury. Its pretty standard here, six weeks is taking the piss. No private sector workers get six weeks per year.