Galway Airport to lose PSO subsidies

Cosmo Kramer

...from July 2011 - confirmed by Noel Dempsey today.

In October Joe Walsh, the airport's CEO stated that the PSO funding was critical to the facility's survival.

http://www.galwaynews.ie/15663-county-council-steps-pressure-government-over-galway-airport

Aer Arann are now propped up by the Stobart transportation company who wish to operate the business primarily from Southend rather than Ireland. The Galway - Luton flight is expected to be dropped and replaced by a Galway - Southend flight later this year.

The airport passenger fee seems to be a final effort to keep the airport going, but is there really any future for the facility now? Why the airport wasn't expanded years ago to accommodate bigger jets is beyond me, its location is perfect for use as an international gateway but this is unlikely to happen now.

Madame Razz

Bye bye Galway airport then.

As for Aer Arann replacing the Luton route, that seems pretty suicidal, surely Luton is better serviced via public transport than Southend?

That said, Aer Arann are losing a lot of their London flying 'regulars' thanks to them providing a dismal service to and from Galway with problems on a large proportion of flights since August of last year.

We used to use the route for business a lot but have opted for Shannon-LHR recently as the service is more reliable and often costs less. Shannon is very accessible with the new motorway now anyway.

Nemi

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Why the airport wasn't expanded years ago to accommodate bigger jets is beyond me, its location is perfect for use as an international gateway but this is unlikely to happen now.

The immediate problem was opposition from supporters of Knock Airport:

http://www.thepost.ie/archives/2000/1105/oranmore-plan-threatens-knock-airport-573024138.html

A Mayo TD has asked the Taoiseach not to allow the sale of Department of Defence land at Oranmore, Co Galway, which has been earmarked as a potential site for a new airport. Michael Ring of Fine Gael fears that the development of a new international airport in Galway could have a catastrophic effect on the future of Knock International Airport in Co Mayo.

The broad issue is simply that there's too many airports in the West, all with overlapping catchments, all simply taking business off each other.

If Knock had never been built, and instead Galway got an airport with a similar length of runway, it almost certainly would have worked out better. That's what happens when you let infrastructure spend get decided on the basis of political campaigns instead of facts and figures.

galwayrush

Way past time to get replace the useless representatives we have in the Dail, looks like they ignored this one as well.:mad:

?Cee?view

galwayrush wrote: »

Way past time to get replace the useless representatives we have in the Dail, looks like they ignored this one as well.:mad:

They didn't ignore it. They actively campaigned against it. The Green-o-mentalists must be thrilled, led by Cuffe on this particular stupidity.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0723/1224275297328.html

Hopefully anyone in Galway who considers air access to Galway and Aer Arann to be of importance will remember this if O Brolchain calls to their door.

galwayrush

churchview wrote: »

They didn't ignore it. They actively campaigned against it. The Green-o-mentalists must be thrilled, led by Cuffe on this particular stupidity.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0723/1224275297328.html

Hopefully anyone in Galway who considers air access to Galway and Aer Arann to be of importance will remember this if O Brolchain calls to their door.

Another reason to give those FF and Green idiots a hell of a hard time if they dare come to my door canvassing.

Neworder79

According to The Minister for Transport the decision was based on the findings of the "Value for Money Review of Exchequer Expenditure on the Regional Airports", a report commissioned after the Board snip report recommended scrapping all regional airport funding.

It goes into a lot of detail and analysis of the cost/benefits of each airport.

Among the main findings re Galway:

- Improvements in road and rail access to Dublin appx 2hrs, Shannon 1.05 hrs
- Cost base at Galway and Waterford is excessive relative to revenues
- Galway sustaining increasing losses for most of last decade
- Galway 23% of all regional airport operational funding since 2000
- PSO 25% of Galway passengers, service to Dublin has suffered a 35% drop
- Operational subsidy growing, now 21% of Galway turnover, 46% Waterford
- IDA say airport within appx 1 hour journey time is satisfactory to multinationals
- Galway airport used by 3.9% inbound tourists to region, 5% to county appears to make a limited contribution to tourism
- 12.5% of inbound tourists accessing the region, 48% county via Knock Airport

Among the main recommendations:
- End PSO routes to Sligo, Galway, Knock, Derry
- End operational subsidy to Galway & Sligo, review Waterford in the future
- No further capital investment to Donegal, Galway & Sligo
- Continue limited operational funding for Knock, Donegal & Kerry
- Continue to improve transport/road access to regional airports

The reports conclusion:
"Exchequer support for regional airports in Connaught should be focused on Knock Airport, which can adequately serve both Galway and Sligo with a greater range of services than offered by Galway or Sligo Airports. This focus on Knock should also increase Knock’s “critical mass” and enhance its finances. Galway city will also have the benefit of improving journey times to Shannon Airport."

Sponge Bob

There is no justification for subsidising a Galway Dublin air route since the motorway was built. None whatsoever.

Not often I find myself agreeing with that idiot Cuffe but there you go.

GekkePrutser

I don't agree the road route is a good replacement. I've been up and down on the buses a lot recently (especially ****tylink) and they're awful.

They waste at least half an hour in the center of Dublin City picking one or two people up when there is a lovely M50 they could take direct from the motorway, and they're always overcrowded. And legroom is even less than on the plane (which is only a 30 minute sit to Dublin anyway). I can't imagine business travellers to put up with it.

I've taken to always flying to Dublin if I can, the only reason I didn't recently was because I was up and down to Dublin unexpectedly due to the Aer Lingus cancellations and Aer Arann was too expensive at short notice.

I think Aer Arann deliver a great service, you can fly from Dublin to Galway for 25 euro on the spot if they have space. It's going to hurt local businesses further if this service is to go.

Storm 10

Heard O Brolchain on Galway Bay news this moring saying he is in with a good chance of getting elected this time, well not with my vote you wont, the Greens have ruined this country and now going to close Galway Airport.

Wompa1

GekkePrutser wrote: »

I don't agree the road route is a good replacement. I've been up and down on the buses a lot recently (especially ****tylink) and they're awful.

They waste at least half an hour in the center of Dublin City picking one or two people up when there is a lovely M50 they could take direct from the motorway, and they're always overcrowded. And legroom is even less than on the plane (which is only a 30 minute sit to Dublin anyway). I can't imagine business travellers to put up with it.

I've taken to always flying to Dublin if I can, the only reason I didn't recently was because I was up and down to Dublin unexpectedly due to the Aer Lingus cancellations and Aer Arann was too expensive at short notice.

I think Aer Arann deliver a great service, you can fly from Dublin to Galway for 25 euro on the spot if they have space. It's going to hurt local businesses further if this service is to go.

Not a big fan of the bus service to Dublin. I got a bus from Dublin Airport to Galway in November that took 4.5 hours!! I could have got from Galway to Luton and from Luton into St. Pancras in that time. Let alone the quick 20 minute flight from Galway to Dublin

Deleted User

Reposted from a previous thread - it was affordable because it was subsidised.

Deleted User wrote: »

It's Galway airport bringing in the fee not Aer Arann - I'm not sure if the Galway-Dublin flight would survive if the subsidy was cut/eliminated.

These numbers are from 2003 but they suggest each passanger was subsidised by €50 per one way trip back then
http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/4803-0.pdf

Would you be willing to pay an extra €100 for your trip?

Neworder79

Wompa1 wrote: »

Not a big fan of the bus service to Dublin. I got a bus from Dublin Airport to Galway in November that took 4.5 hours!! I could have got from Galway to Luton and from Luton into St. Pancras in that time. Let alone the quick 20 minute flight from Galway to Dublin

How'd you manage that, snow? Citylink's only 2.5 hours to DUB airport:

http://www.citylink.ie/assets/timetables/Feb2010/20932%20Dublin%20Leaflet%20(updated%2019th%20December%202010-Website).pdf

The report says there may be demand for someone like Manx2 to operate with a smaller aircraft.

lion_bar

Madame Razz wrote: »

Bye bye Galway airport then.


That said, Aer Arann are losing a lot of their London flying 'regulars' thanks to them providing a dismal service to and from Galway with problems on a large proportion of flights since August of last year.

We used to use the route for business a lot but have opted for Shannon-LHR recently as the service is more reliable and often costs less. Shannon is very accessible with the new motorway now anyway.

+1.

I fly to the UK a couple of times a month and to be honest have switched to Shannon. Aer Arann are too expensive, the landing charges & taxes totally overprice the flight compared to RyanAir to Stanstead or AerLingus to LHR.

With Shannon 1 hr from Galway City which is nearly guaranteed travel time when i'm getting an early morning flight, Galway airport has priced itself out of the market for me.

Wompa1

Neworder79 wrote: »

How'd you manage that, snow? Citylink's only 2.5 hours to DUB airport:

http://www.citylink.ie/assets/timetables/Feb2010/20932%20Dublin%20Leaflet%20(updated%2019th%20December%202010-Website).pdf

The report says there may be demand for someone like Manx2 to operate with a smaller aircraft.

Funny enough it was City Link I got from the Airport back to Galway. The guy at the airport was like ohh the next GoBus isn't for 30 minutes, our bus isn't direct but it will get you there at the same time....

That was a lie!! The bus went into Dublin City for the first stop and stayed there for over 30 minutes and then took long stops all along the way. It took the older route it seemed. I had just completed about 23 hours of travelling from the West Coast of America and was bulling when I realised the prick out right lied to me

yeehaw

Storm 10 wrote: »

Heard O Brolchain on Galway Bay news this moring saying he is in with a good chance of getting elected this time, well not with my vote you wont, the Greens have ruined this country and now going to close Galway Airport.

He has absolutely no chance of getting elected. The greens are unlikely to return a single seat in the next election. Wipeout on the cards- worse than the PDs last time.

The writting has been on the wall for the Galway airport for over a decade. Its living on borrowed time.

If it is not economical to run and can not make a profit, it should be shut.

We need to change this attitude of propping up inefficent entities just becausea local TD wants to save a seat.

?Cee?view

Deleted User wrote: »

If it is not economical to run and can not make a profit, it should be shut.

We need to change this attitude of propping up inefficent entities just becausea local TD wants to save a seat.

On that basis you'd have to shut Ireland's rail and bus networks. CIE got 800 million in state subsidies in 2008. Can't find more recent figures just now.

One wonders how much the ludicrous Western Rail Corridor costs? Surely that money would be better directed to Galway airport.

paconnors

Storm 10 wrote: »

Heard O Brolchain on Galway Bay news this moring saying he is in with a good chance of getting elected this time, well not with my vote you wont, the Greens have ruined this country and now going to close Galway Airport.

I wonder what's he smoking, must be some good 'Green' Weed

nuac

imho

1. Galway is too near to Shannon, with recent improved road access to justify a separate Galway Airport.

2. Of all the airports in the West, Knock seems to have the best facilities and most room to expand, and therefore investment should be concentrated on it.

3. Not everything in the West has to be in Galway - hospitals, university, etc etc - get used to that Galwegians.

Amazotheamazing

nuac wrote: »

2. Of all the airports in the West, Knock seems to have the best facilities and most room to expand, and therefore investment should be concentrated on it.

Is Shannon not in the West or something?

If there was a motorway from Galway to Shannon (as there should be), it'd only be 35-40 minutes away.

Ideally there would be a motorway from Cork to Sligo but we'll be waiting...

Sponge Bob

Another report on Operating Subsidies to Airports ( not to airlines but to airports) recommended pulling subsidies to Galway and Sligo and concentrating them in Knock only. See Here.

Galway airport got €900k from the Department of Transport towards its operating costs in 2009 and seemingly got €1.2m in 2010

Over the years the subsidies for Galway Were (source)

* Initial OPEX allocations not all paid over that year but FF TDs got their BS announcements off anyway. Cutbacks were made quietly after the OPEX allocations were announced which is why the headage charge was introduced a few months ago.

Opex PSO Total
2005 280,000 2,953,594 €3.2m
2006 678,000 3,004,919 €3.7m
2007 859,000 3,041,058 €3.9m
2008 1,200,000 3,271,344 €4.5m
2009* 962,000 3,314,239 €4.3m*
2010* 1,800,000 3,430,810 €5.2m*

Knock should be given no more OPEX money until they stop taxing tourists in the terminal, this policy is utterly indefensible. It is a headage charge collecting around €2m a year but brings the west into complete disrepute. Shannon doesn't do it.

Robbo

nuac wrote: »

2. Of all the airports in the West, Knock seems to have the best facilities and most room to expand, and therefore investment should be concentrated on it.

The famed "foggy, boggy hillside"? We'd need Joe Coleman to have a few more apparitions for it to justify any more investment.

churchview wrote: »

On that basis you'd have to shut Ireland's rail and bus networks. CIE got 800 million in state subsidies in 2008. Can't find more recent figures just now.

One wonders how much the ludicrous Western Rail Corridor costs? Surely that money would be better directed to Galway airport.

€106 million to deliver a rail service that tops out at 60mph, arrives into Athenry facing the wrong way and takes 40 minutes longer than the express bus. Then there's the noisy, uncomfortable commuter railcars presently used...

Neworder79

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Knock should be given no more OPEX money until they stop taxing tourists in the terminal

Galway have a €10 departure fee now also, Shannon also looked at it when they lost a huge number of routes. Waterford have a €7 dep fee which Aer Arann include in the ticket.

Thing is Knock didn't need any OPEX subsidy for some years before the downturn, mainly due to it's ability to self fund through the departure fee and growing airline business. If they dump the fee the Government would end up subsidising more through OPEX due to the shortfall in profits.

We can all give out about subsides like they are a dirty word, but every transport mode in the country is subsidised to some extent and wouldn't be able offer the service the public demands otherwise.

The key is that we don't over subsadise private companies/airlines or waste tax payers money. Which is why this review of regional airports is highlighting the unsustainable state of Galway and Sligo when better air services could be delivered for less money by focusing on the fewer viable airports.

With hospitals closing and the IMF turning the screw we have to be practical in what infrastructure we can now invest in for the greatest return.

GekkePrutser

Neworder79 wrote: »

With hospitals closing and the IMF turning the screw we have to be practical in what infrastructure we can now invest in for the greatest return.

It still makes a lot more sense to me to invest in airports near cities, such as the one in Galway, as opposed to the one in Knock which is miles from the nearest city and doesn't even have a decent bus service to it from Galway.

Amazotheamazing

GekkePrutser wrote: »

It still makes a lot more sense to me to invest in airports near cities, such as the one in Galway, as opposed to the one in Knock which is miles from the nearest city and doesn't even have a decent bus service to it from Galway.

Logically yes, but afaik, Galway Airport can't expand due to it's location and there's (now) better existing facilities at both Shannon and Knock. It makes little sense to have an airport with decent facilities (can land all types of planes there etc) and then build another one 40 mins up the road.

Neworder79

It still makes a lot more sense to me to invest in airports near cities, such as the one in Galway, as opposed to the one in Knock which is miles from the nearest city and doesn't even have a decent bus service to it from Galway.

There are 8 Bus Eireann services a day to Knock from Galway, but yes it could improve if Citylink offered an express service and better integration of public transport.

It may not be in Galway city but it is central in the Connaught/NW region at the intersection of the 2 main primary road routes and seems to have no problem attracting users from the wider region, which is more cost effective/sustainable model for a low density region than multiple small airstrips serving individual towns.

Galway is a city of 73000, county of 232,000 people with 3 motorway/HQ road links to 2 major airports within 1 hour (M16, M17 soon to be completed) and M6 to Dublin in 2hrs. Galway is useful in providing a direct London link to the city. But it would take hundreds of millions to upgrade to the same level of infrastructure as is Knock and Shannon 1 hour away. It makes no sense, we don't have the population, need or money. The result would be 3 airports with overlapping catchments and no critical mass struggling to survive.

With the state of the finances we have to stop thinking at county level and plan for the West as a region with sustainable, integrated development that can deliver growth and measurable benefits.

Sponge Bob

Shannon has to be kept open....that even if no passengers used it any more.

Neworder79

Shannon is still carrying about 2m per year. You can't compare that with 160,000 odd using a regional airport.

Unfortunately it doesn't make sense to keep subsidising Galway airport as there are bigger airports within reasonable distance.

Edit: And Knock isn't a major airport

Neworder79

Unfortunately it doesn't make sense to keep subsidising Galway airport as there are bigger airports within reasonable distance.
Edit: And Knock isn't a major airport

Correct, I was was looking at comparable infrastructure in Irish terms. In World terms Dublin isn't even in the top 50 anymore.

yew_tree

Deleted User wrote: »

Unfortunately it doesn't make sense to keep subsidising Galway airport as there are bigger airports within reasonable distance.

Edit: And Knock isn't a major airport

Hi all first time poster here. Knock isnt a major airport but it is compared to galway. Shannon wouldnt be too busy if the US military was not using it. Knock is central in connacht and the NW so rightly should be the only airport in the region. Passenger numbers last year were around the 700,000 mark and now with new routes announced has over 25 destinations.

Knock is the fourth busiest airport in the republic. Not everthing has to be in galway - r.e hospitals etc.......

KevR

Nemi wrote: »

The immediate problem was opposition from supporters of Knock Airport:
The broad issue is simply that there's too many airports in the West, all with overlapping catchments, all simply taking business off each other.

If Knock had never been built, and instead Galway got an airport with a similar length of runway, it almost certainly would have worked out better. That's what happens when you let infrastructure spend get decided on the basis of political campaigns instead of facts and figures.

+1,000,000

Could not agree more!! The airport situation in the West of Ireland is a farce.

Dublin and Cork are justified in having the airports that they currently have. There should really only be one other medium sized airport in Ireland - either immediately to the South of Galway City or immediately to the North of Limerick City with a motorway between the 2 cities built at the same time as the airport and some other improvements to the road network.

Unfortunately this will never happen - we will be stuck with too many small/medium airports which all have rubbish timetables because there is too much competition and the population is nowhere near big enough. As a result, none of the Western airports can really offer any competition to Dublin with it's superior timetable and superior selection of routes. People from the West will always head to Dublin Airport in their droves despite the choice of multiple airports closer to home.

I fly on a fairly regular basis and I always use Dublin Airport which is over 2 hours away. Galway Airport is only 20 mins away from me, Shannon 1 hour and Knock 1 hour but I can never get the flights I want from these airports or I'm not willing to pay through the nose to use them.

I feel really sorry for any of the staff in the regional airports who end up losing their jobs but it won't be much of a loss or an inconvenience to me if those airports drop routes or shut down completely.

KevR

yew_tree wrote: »

Hi all first time poster here. Knock isnt a major airport but it is compared to galway. Shannon wouldnt be too busy if the US military was not using it. Knock is central in connacht and the NW so rightly should be the only airport in the region. Passenger numbers last year were around the 700,000 mark and now with new routes announced has over 25 destinations.

Knock is the fourth busiest airport in the republic. Not everthing has to be in galway - r.e hospitals etc.......

Knock Airport should never have been built, same goes for a number of other airports in Ireland. Knock is not central to anywhere and the population isn't there to justify it. Instead of all the Western airports, a single airport in Galway (of similar size to Shannon) built many years ago with large scale improvements to the road network carried out when the airport was being built would have been better overall for the West of Ireland as we'd have a great selection of flights with a good timetable. A proper airport in Galway would have given Dublin a lot more competition.

I do find it hilarious that a priest got Knock Airport built to bring pilgrims into Ireland. The main use for the airport now is people from the North West getting cheap flights out to Spain to get wasted and score left, right and centre. You couldn't make it up! :pac:

GekkePrutser

Neworder79 wrote: »

Galway is a city of 73000, county of 232,000 people with 3 motorway/HQ road links to 2 major airports within 1 hour

That is exactly a reason why Galway should have an airport. Because you can actually get there. It's very well connected in the region and there's a lot of people who can reach it quickly.

Knock is at the very best 1 hour and 10 minutes from Galway and the road over there is too unpredictable. Getting through Claregalway in the morning, getting stuck behind a farmer, etc will all add ages to the trip. The point is that it will add 2 hours to the whole journey because you have to think worst-case not to miss your flight. So in terms of getting there it is no better than Dublin, which can at least be reached now without much chance of congestion.

I think it comes down to what you're willing to accept as a suitable travel time to an airport, I think over 2 hours is not acceptable, especially for business travellers who might be doing the trip weekly.

yeehaw

yew_tree wrote: »

Hi all first time poster here. Knock isnt a major airport but it is compared to galway. Shannon wouldnt be too busy if the US military was not using it. Knock is central in connacht and the NW so rightly should be the only airport in the region. Passenger numbers last year were around the 700,000 mark and now with new routes announced has over 25 destinations.

Knock is the fourth busiest airport in the republic. Not everthing has to be in galway - r.e hospitals etc.......

Probably worth pointing out that Shannon airport was originally earmarked for Galway but political considerations meant it was located elsewhere. There should be one Airport in the West of Ireland and it should be Shannon Airport located in Galway.

Sadly, that ship has sailed.

yew_tree

KevR - Rubbish. With a motorway galway in only an hour most from shannon and when the M17 is done it wont be too much further from knock. Knock is central in the BMW region. Galway is not a big city in international terms. Ye already have the cance services etc there so dont go crying when galway doesent get something.

Knock is ideal as there is plenty of space to expand in the future. By the way most of the traffic is from the UK not sun holidays, most of which only run during summer months. Ryanair wouldnt be expanding from knock if they were not doing well.

Its amazing the ignorance of some people on knock airport. They have a top class team working hard in attracting new business and developing the infrastructure. Credit where it is due.

As for it not being built in the first place - Fr.Horan is a hero. If that is your argument galway airfield should never have been built up the road from shannon.

Sponge Bob

Knock should never have been built ( I mean 30 years ago) . Some priest in Mayo wanted to develop his shrine into a new Lourdes or Fatima.

Were we left with a clear slate and no subsidised Galway or Sligo to muddy the waters , it would have been built or certainly jusifiable in the era of cheap mass shorthaul plane travel that started circa 1990.

If not precisely in Knock them somewhere in Mid Connacht a Kerry Airport/737/A320 grade runway would have been built. Knock is half way between Shannon and Derry.

So Knock is justified in full hindsight. Galway was a creation of a country with no motorways, in fact hideously crap roads out of Dublin until the past 5 years.

With the motorways in place there is no reason to subsidise Galway any more. The Motorway IS the new subsidy if you will

Shannon was in Competition with the Curragh line in the 1940s as Yeehaw said, Shannon won, Dev was the local TD .

GekkePrutser

yew_tree wrote: »

Not everthing has to be in galway - r.e hospitals etc.......

I know this is a bit offtopic but because everyone keeps bringing it up: of course Galway should have a hospital. The problem is not that Galway has all these resources, but that other smaller population centers don't have these critical life-saving facilities.

Every major town should have a hospital. It's really incomprehensible that a big town (and regional center) like Athlone for example doesn't have one, even a small one. Blame the Irish health system but not Galway.

yew_tree

GekkePrutser wrote: »

I know this is a bit offtopic but because everyone keeps bringing it up: of course Galway should have a hospital. The problem is not that Galway has all these resources, but that other smaller population centers don't have these critical life-saving facilities.

Every major town should have a hospital. It's really incomprehensible that a big town (and regional center) like Athlone for example doesn't have one, even a small one. Blame the Irish health system but not Galway.

I never siad galway should not have a hospital. but it shouldn't have to cope with patients from mayo, sligo, roscommon, donegal etc who want cancer treatment in the so called center of excellence.

KevR

yew_tree wrote: »

KevR - Rubbish. With a motorway galway in only an hour most from shannon and when the M17 is done it wont be too much further from knock. Knock is central in the BMW region. Galway is not a big city in international terms. Ye already have the cance services etc there so dont go crying when galway doesent get something.

Knock is ideal as there is plenty of space to expand in the future. By the way most of the traffic is from the UK not sun holidays, most of which only run during summer months. Ryanair wouldnt be expanding from knock if they were not doing well.

Its amazing the ignorance of some people on knock airport. They have a top class team working hard in attracting new business and developing the infrastructure. Credit where it is due.

As for it not being built in the first place - Fr.Horan is a hero. If that is your argument galway airfield should never have been built up the road from shannon.

I'm not too worried about Knock expanding, it's in the middle of nowhere. Dublin Airport on the other hand is beside a city and has recently got a second terminal. I can see Dublin Airport getting a second parallel runway before there is any major expansion at Knock or any of the other airports.

You're clutching at straws bringing the likes of cancer care/hospitals into this argument..

I agree the airport that is in Galway now should never have been built, along with Knock, Shannon and Sligo. Just one proper medium sized airport in Galway would have been a lot better for the whole of the West of Ireland.

Everyone wanted an airport in their own back yard, everyone got one and the result is that none of them actually provide a REAL ALTERNATIVE to Dublin Airport. It's sad what has happened and it's a classic example of how the West of Ireland shoots itself in the foot.

Every town/village in the West thinks it should be some sort of a special transport or employment hub. The result is that investment here is too thinly spread. Contrast this to Dublin and the East - Dublin is without question the main transport and employment hub. We can't compete with them in most areas and it is largely our own fault.

Neworder79

The country is surviving on IMF/EU loans at crippling interest rates, I don't think many realise things haven't hit bottom yet. The next government will have to make hard decisions after the election promises.

The billions promised for infrastructure in the past were based on the dream of eternal growth, where every town could have a motorway, 5 spa hotels and a shopping centre. That money will now go to paying our interest bill for the next 20 years. The days of ministers doling out out grants like smarties from Paddys day parade are over.

Like the amalgamation of hospitals to create a critical mass of services and reduce duplication costs, it will mean change. But we have to be more practical with spending and reduce waste.

The PSO cuts are based on a detailed report that looked at all aspects of regional airport subsidy and assessed value of that investment to access/tourism/business. It points out that overall most aren't the "vital", "crucial" gateways many groups claim them to be, contributing only 5% of national air traffic overall.

Did anyone bother to read the findings, or is it easier to ignore reality and waste time revising history?

http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp?id=12921&lang=ENG&loc=432

Amazotheamazing

KevR wrote: »

I agree the airport that is in Galway now should never have been built, along with Knock, Shannon and Sligo. Just one proper medium sized airport in Galway would have been a lot better for the whole of the West of Ireland.

Is that what Shannon should be?

If there was a motorway from Sligo to Cork, Shannon would be with 40 mins of Galway and 25 of Limerick.

KevR

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Is that what Shannon should be?

If there was a motorway from Sligo to Cork, Shannon would be with 40 mins of Galway and 25 of Limerick.

Not an ideal location for me. Should either be on the outskirts of Galway or Limerick and named accordingly. Even if it didn't get built in Galway then I would have rathered that it was built right on the Northern edge of Limerick than in Shannon. What tourist wants to hang around the Shannon town area?? And it's not exactly on the doorstep for people in either Limerick or Galway to use - it may as well be on the doorstep of one city and a motorway connection could have been built to the other city.

In 2009, almost 1 million people attended Galway events in 3 weeks (Ocean Race, Horse Racing and Macnas). Shannon and Knock have medium sized airports and those areas don't even come close to Galway in terms of tourism, population, employment, revenue to the exchequer and national importance.

If Shannon was in a good location then the government wouldn't have had to pull the stunts that they did over the years to make it viable.

It would only be a very small consolation but Shannon should be renamed 'Limerick-Galway Airport' so people from outside Ireland will associate the airport with places that they actually might want to visit. Probably won't ever happen though as the residents of Shannon and County Clare would no doubt kick up holy murder..

koura

Galway Airport is overstaffed and was badly managed
and the subsidies were used to pay these people.
They should have used some of the subsidies to market the airport.
The most glaring example of bad management was the
lack of facilities for people picking up people at the airport.

Amazotheamazing

KevR wrote: »

Not an ideal location for me. Should either be on the outskirts of Galway or Limerick and named accordingly. Even if it didn't get built in Galway then I would have rathered that it was built right on the Northern edge of Limerick than in Shannon. What tourist wants to hang around the Shannon town area?? And it's not exactly on the doorstep for people in either Limerick or Galway to use - it may as well be on the doorstep of one city and a motorway connection could have been built to the other city.

In 2009, almost 1 million people attended Galway events in 3 weeks (Ocean Race, Horse Racing and Macnas). Shannon and Knock have medium sized airports and those areas don't even come close to Galway in terms of tourism, population, employment, revenue to the exchequer and national importance.

If Shannon was in a good location then the government wouldn't have had to pull the stunts that they did over the years to make it viable.

It would only be a very small consolation but Shannon should be renamed 'Limerick-Galway Airport' so people from outside Ireland will associate the airport with places that they actually might want to visit. Probably won't ever happen though as the residents of Shannon and County Clare would no doubt kick up holy murder..

I disagree, Shannon is a good location, it's badly utilised. Who wants to live beside an airport? Makes sense to have the industrial park there too.

The catchment area for Shannon should be the west coast from Kerry to Sligo, with proper road and rail links to back it up. Airports aren't destinations in themselves, how many tourists stay in Gatwick or Heathrow?

I don't think either Galway or Limerick is large enough to sustain an airport on it's own (well Galway clearly isn't if Galway Airport has to close)

KevR

Heathrow is within the Greater London boundary so enough said there..

Galway/Limerick aren't big enough to sustain a medium sized airport but Shannon is?

Galway Airport isn't sustainable because the runway is too short and the likes of Ryanair and Aer Lingus can't fly there as a result. A lot of the passenger traffic through Galway was subsidised through the PSOs, this funding is being cut because Galway is now connected to Dublin with a full motorway.

If Galway had a longer runway it would definitely be sustainable. It would probably kill off Knock and do serious damage to Shannon. Someone posted earlier in the thread about protests from people in Knock when a bigger airport for Galway was proposed. That certainly proves my point!

Amazotheamazing

KevR wrote: »

Heathrow is within the Greater London boundary so enough said there..

Galway/Limerick aren't big enough to sustain a medium sized airport but Shannon is?

No one place on the west coast is big enough to sustain an airport. The only solution, imo, is to have one top class airport that the entire west coast can use. Imo, the best place for the airport is somewhere between Limerick and Galway, (due to their populations) with proper links to all the towns on the west coast.

This "go it alone" attitude from all the towns on the west coast (including Limerick and Galway) is weakening us. We should be asking for top class facilities, even if it's just one on the west coast, than asking that everywhere has a hospital, airport, etc of poor standard. Right now we have too many airports and no interconnectivity.

Neworder79

Fantasy geography seems to be order of the day.

Here's a map of the reports recommendations for regional airports policy (motorways shown are those complete, or going ahead which travel times are based on)

Not an ideal location for me. Should either be on the outskirts of Galway or Limerick

No one place on the west coast is big enough to sustain an airport. The only solution, imo, is to have one top class airport that the entire west coast can use. Imo, the best place for the airport is somewhere between Limerick and Galway, (due to their populations) with proper links to all the towns on the west coast.

Eh, Shannon's is between Limerick & Galway, 20 mins drive from Limerick, 1hr on soon to be completed Galway motorway, closer than many major city airports. Do youthink we should rip up the biggest runway in the country so it looks more centered on a map?

What tourist wants to hang around the Shannon town area??

About as many as hang round Luton, Stansted, Gatwick, Heathrow.. believe it or not they can take buses elsewhere.

it may as well be on the doorstep of one city and a motorway connection could have been built to the other city.

Eh it is, and the motorway is 3/4 finished, have you ever been past Oranmore?

Shannon and Knock have medium sized airports and those areas don't even come close to Galway in terms of tourism, population, employment, revenue to the exchequer and national importance.

Hate to break it to you but Limerick is Irelands third city in population terms, Limerick and Shannon region is the biggest Industrial area outside Dublin, don't believe everything you read in the Connaught Tribune.

I don't think either Galway or Limerick is large enough to sustain an airport on it's own

With the motorway it's easy to get to Shannon from both cities, and was carrying almost 3m before the downturn with a lot of transatlantic traffic, so it's not the dead horse some make out. And airports serve regions beyond immediate local towns.

Someone posted earlier in the thread about protests from people in Knock when a bigger airport for Galway was proposed. That certainly proves my point!

Proves nothing, if you read the 10 year old article it was about a speculative proposal in Oranmore based on a land deal, and the "protests" were from Michael Ring who's in the papers mouthing off daily about all sorts.

But his point at the time same one we are discussing here, "What is the point of the government supporting one airport to close down another?". The whole reason for this weeks report was to look at the data and make recommendations to form a more coherent policy in future spending.

Madame Razz

It's also worth mentioning that Shannon deals with a healthy amount of air freight coming in and out of the country also.

996tt

Wompa1 wrote: »

Not a big fan of the bus service to Dublin. I got a bus from Dublin Airport to Galway in November that took 4.5 hours!! I could have got from Galway to Luton and from Luton into St. Pancras in that time. Let alone the quick 20 minute flight from Galway to Dublin

Wompa1 wrote: »

Funny enough it was City Link I got from the Airport back to Galway. The guy at the airport was like ohh the next GoBus isn't for 30 minutes, our bus isn't direct but it will get you there at the same time....

That was a lie!! The bus went into Dublin City for the first stop and stayed there for over 30 minutes and then took long stops all along the way. It took the older route it seemed. I had just completed about 23 hours of travelling from the West Coast of America and was bulling when I realised the prick out right lied to me

thats a bit harsh to the excellent bus service that is available btwn galway and dublin airport, its like saying i flew to paris but it took 14days because i connected via 56 airports and therefore all planes are crap, get the correct bus the next time and when your posting include all relevant information the first time