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12-01-2011 6:17pm#1
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France has plans for DTT 11 muxes (including spectrum for mobile-TV). I think they need to 'do something substantially ' just to be able to clear the 800 MHz band (ch61-69).Maybe they will compromise and only ditch MPEG2
Sounds like they are greedy to sell off more Spectrum. http://www.techtir.ie/saortv/digital-dividend
They will surely make a migration plan, but do not forget France passed a law mandating MPEG-4 from December 2008 in all but very small TV sets. (later postponed to December 2009).
France is a country where such regulations from Paris are accepted and implemented.
After all 2013/2015 is 3-5 years AWAY and a DVB-T2 box will soon be available at €50 or even less.
Lars
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But they have NO DVB-T2 sets today. The MPEG4 law is DVB-T
The French ASO is November 2011 not 2012
This will be interesting to watch
The Mobile TV will not happen. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056144293
Or Mobile TV will just use Ordinary Digital TV.
After they have burnt a few Tvs, set-boxs and cars.France is a country where such regulations from Paris are accepted and implemented.
After all 2013/2015 is 3-5 years AWAY and a DVB-T2 box will soon be available at €50 or even less.
£40 maybe at the minute? 42" HDTV DVB-T2 about €470 ?0 -
The consultation is within a month - as I read the news. A new law with both DVB-T2 and MPEG-4 requirements can easily be passed.But they have NO DVB-T2 sets today. The MPEG4 law is DVB-T
The French ASO is November 2011 not 2012
The products are already on the UK, Swedish, Finish markets, with more - products and markets - to come this year. France need not wait for DVB-T2 consumer products at all.
Very interesting indeed. It will add another 60 millions to the potential DVB-T2 customers.watty wrote:This will be interesting to watch
No it will not happen, but is still not officially dead in France. DVB-NGH - we are told - can coexist in a DVB-T2 muxwatty wrote:
. so (a very small) maybe for 2013 or later ?
£40 ~ €50, I think.watty wrote:£40 maybe at the minute? 42" HDTV DVB-T2 about €470 ?
At these prices only some grumpy old men will complain, if the switchover runs over just a few years.
Lars
Note: Key technology and DVB-T2 products are from France - e.g rotated constellations, ENENSYS and Teamcast.0 -
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I mean they have LOTS and LOTS of DVB-T TVs and boxes ALREADY and none of the ones in use do DVB-T2
No problem for the future.
The law did not mandate anything for the transmitters - IFAIK - only that all new equipment should have such and such features from December 2009.
Old equipment (say over 2-3 years) has very little economic value - it is - almost all of it - emotions and yes, mostly 'grumpy old men' having nothing better to do.
It's €50 or even less. Why cares?
The important thing is to ensure that new models have all the needed features and a low CO2 profile (~ zero stand-by consumption) - for the CO2 but mostly to limit the size of our home electricity bill.
Lars
Germany is very silient now, but they do think about using DVB-T2. When they act - they often act fast.0 -
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It seems to be trivial to make most of them confirm to Nordig - give or take VHF.Lars, the UK DTG DVB-T2 boxes in no way are the same as generic nordig dvb-t2 boxes.60million is the population, not the customer base.
Customer base may be 20-25 million households - each with 2-4 TV sets or PVR's.
I gave the figure as it it easy to compare to ROI's just over 4 million (1/14) and the UK ~ same size and ....
I think France are using less DTT and more cable/sat - but it is a large DTT market - currently the largest DVB-T/MPEG-4 market, I think.
A decision to move to DVB-T2 in France will reduce the DVB-T/MPEG-4 market significantly within a very few years.Whilst the prices of a DVB-T2 box has struck STG40 in the UK it will be a little more difficult to sell or shift these given French investment in dvb-t via MPEG4 for the commercial stations alone.
The French wont be thinking past as long MPEG4 via DVB-T was a certified
If a law says DVB-T2 is required - they will have no option. Besides DVB-T will no longer be certified.
The stations can easily change to DVB-T2 - only relativly inexpensive modulator boards are required. The newest transmitters can modulate DVB-T2 by default (or after a software upload).
Frankly - who cares that much for consumers with older equipment - not many. They will more or less be forced to buy DVB-T2 equipment. Over time - more and more channels will move to DVB-T2 muxes. End of story in 3-5 years
You were very much into the MPEG-2, MPEG-4, Neotion question - Take a look - did it save much money or indeed any money - did it help much or did it help for any lenght of time.
The best advice i know is:
"If you need it today - buy it no sooner than tomorrow"
What France wants - I do not know - but I can't see CI/CI+ as a show stopper. Alle the FTA MPEG-2 channels do not need a CI/CI+ slot to migrate - or ? Nordig in France ? - don't think so.Current Nordig standards set out that that after 2012 any TV above 30" has to have a CI+ slot.
Lars 0 -
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Most of the (known)differences between Nordig and the D-Book can be fixed by new firmware - if not already included. VHF may require small hardware changes. A lot of the other points happens inside the DVB-T2 chips or are requirements for some combinations of features - audio, video, tuning ranges ....Not true and not known as DTG wont release the book publically. Some of the differences are actually known outside Teracom's tests.
Certainly generic dvb-t2 products wouldn't be suitable for Saorview/Freeview HD in Northern Ireland.
The very commenly used Sony chip is designed to match both UK and Nordig requirements. Some UK Sony TV sets with DVB-T2 ( the 'KDLxx3' models) are reported to work nicely in Sweden.
All the industry input to the original Ofcom DTTFuture and 800MHz band hearings stressed the importance of being able to build generic 'Europe models' (for both TV's and LTE devices)DVBT2 wont be of any benefit to new launching countries with small station carriage or those early adopters with MPEG2 with small station carriage.
This is where you are very wrong. The DVB-T2 cost per channel is only around 60% of the DVB-T cost - in TX investment and operation. If you are using MPEG-2 the saving will be even larger.
It is of very little importance what the consumer has to pay in new hardware, as long as the cost of broadcasting is low.
E.G. the DTT roll-out in ROI is not limited by the cost of consumer equipment, but by the cost of the TX network and the lack of public money.
Besides. DVB was very close to lose South Africa to the Brazilian/Japanese ISDB-T standard in mid/late 2010. DVB-T and ISDB-T are about the same technology level - so lobbying and politics came into play. A large group within DVB used the same arguments as you do - and was so close to losing everything for the DVB standards
In the end DVB-T2 won the day for DVB.ORG - as it is of cause much, much better and its adoption surely is in and the best interest of the Africans.
Spectrum is a limited resource and it is the policy of all countries to preserve spectrum, even if they do not need it at this point in time. But just clearing the 800 MHz band in continental Europe is not that easy.Do they genuinely have a problem with mux capacity in France ? The commercials are using MPEG4 and the PSBs MPEG2 on dvb-t still.
MPEG-2 only hardware is not developed any more and it is unlikely that you will save any money by not specifying DVB-T2 - say in a years time.
The French - they will not be asked. It will be a fact of life over a short period.Certainly the french themselves will not take kindly to another change.
Europe has much bigger problems than buying a new €50 STB over the next 2-5 years.
Lars 0 -
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Unlike UK, France already has very significant MPEG4 and HD pentration, so turning off MPEG2 is very possible, but switch to DVB-T2 would be massive disruption and cost. To switch to only DVB-T2 however would be a massive obsoleting of MPEG4 HD equipment purchased over the last few years. It really doesn't sound feasible.
It is nevertheless what the French minister suggested.
http://www.itespresso.fr/convergence-medias-telecoms-eric-besson-evoque-un-rapprochement-entre-lanfr-larcep-et-le-csa-40144.html
"Cela passerait par l’adoption de de la technologie de compression « tout MPEG4″ (en remplacement du MPEG2) et de la norme de diffusion DVB-T2 (remplaçant le DVB-T).
Une consultation publique sur les nouveaux dispositifs techniques serait initiée avant la fin du mois.
You may thing it is not very wise or doesn't sound feasible but this is the French minister speaking.
Lars 0 -
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