advice needed..

harvester of sorrow

Hi all,
So heres the problem..i work for a company who never had a clocking system or appraisal's,since they set up shop not to long ago.....they now want to bring in both of these.
We dont have a union,and dont really want either of these systems as they havent been there before.There have been meetings between employee reps and managment about a possible renumeration if these systems where to come into practice but managment see determined to bring them in without any negotiating...as far as we are concerned this is a change of work practice.
So my question is,
where do we stand,will we just have to lie down and accept what we are getting or should there be something in it for us??
Thanks for the help.

Mrs OBumble

This may sound harsh, but:

You say that the company set up shop not so long ago. Does that mean you are still on probation? If so, I'd advise pulling your head in, you can easily be let go and replaced.

Re the systems themselves:

Why don't you want a clocking system - is it because staff are routinely going above and beyond (eg staying back for a couple of hours to get things finished, and using the flexibility of no clocking to make up time later on? If so, I could see a genuine case against having the system, and you need to negotiate based on what will work for you and the company. But if it's just 'cos you're regularly working less hours than you're paid for, then I've no sympathy.

And not wanting an appraisal system is just dumb, IMHO. If there are formal appraisals, then you know if you're not working well enough - and you have evidence that you are, if managers try to claim otherwise. No system, though, means that you don't have any systematically gathered evidence.

I'm no lawyer (and you won't get legal advice here, btw), but to me these aren't work practices (things you do as part of your job), they're administrative tools that support the job. Don't know if that's the legal definition though.

Corruptedmorals

I don't understand places that don't have clock-in machines! If you are working overtime, it's extremely easy to track. If you ever forget to clock, HR should be able to sort it out straightaway- it flags up immediately. If you're not sure what hours you worked on a certain day- there's an electronic record. If you're not sure your payslip is correct- it can be re-calculated from your clock-in records straightaway. Of course, if you're regularly late in, leave early or take too long on breaks and lunces, that will flag up immediately. Is that what you're scared of? As JustMary said, nothing to hide, nothing to fear.

Appraisal system are also neccessary. Not just to caution employees and fasttrack people to dismissal but also to reward good work/possible promotions. Again, nothing to fear if you're doing a good job. Really I don't see how a union could claim that your rights are being infringed on- if anything they're being protected.

harvester of sorrow

Forgot to mention that the appraisals are not related to salary increases or anything like that so their is no "reward" for working harder then the person next to you,also we work unsupervised for 80% of the time we are there(shift work 24/7 365)how do you appraise some one based on the 20% of the time you see them?
Im employed full time by the way and not the one doing the"shouting" on the floor,what im saying here is mostly what has been talked about on the floor.
There is little to no overtime so its a mainly 8 hour days 40 hour weeks and no H.R.
Being late in or leaving early is not an issue.

Im just wondering from any one else,did a company try to bring in these systems and if so was there a "compromise" or was it "our way or the highway"!

Corruptedmorals

Right appraisal won't get you anywhere, didn't get me anywhere in my job, was used solely to keep track of people's performances so did not have any positive or negative impact and in short not a big deal at all. If punctuality and overtime are not issues then I don't see why clock-in machines would be an issue, they seem to just want to have clearer administrative records.

bbam

harvester of sorrow wrote: »

should there be something in it for us??

Indeed there is... your job
If you're working hard and attending on time there is nothing to fear from this. If you don't like the changes leave and go elsewhere.
Why would you be entitled to anything, you dont have more duties to do.
I don't need to stand over employees to apraise their work, that's a narrow view on appraisals.

I cannot understand this attitude.. :mad:

harvester of sorrow

I cannot understand this attitude.. :mad:[/QUOTE]
Nor can i yours,but hey,thats your opinion....
...................... anyway,

I think there was something about Tesco trying to bring in a clocking system at one stage that the employees didnt want...think it was taken to the labour court..dont know the out come,must look it up also.
Thanks everyone for the replys.

Corruptedmorals

I wonder was that the hand scan one? Dunnes has that, Tesco would pretty much need that one too- too much danger of someone clocking someone else in. Can't really see a major supermarket without a clock-in machine, they must have had cards before.

D.McC

Very little you can do. :mad: Your employer can introduce a time keeping device under H&S - it can be used as a nominal roll in the event of an evacuation.

Also, they would be well within thier rights to introduce it by claiming it is to ensure everyone gets paid right, and to reduce the wage budget.

harvester of sorrow

D.McC wrote: »

Very little you can do. :mad: Your employer can introduce a time keeping device under H&S - it can be used as a nominal roll in the event of an evacuation.

Also, they would be well within thier rights to introduce it by claiming it is to ensure everyone gets paid right, and to reduce the wage budget.

As far as i know i think the H&S angle is the one there using....not looking good so.......ah well..

RedXIV

Corruptedmorals wrote: »

I wonder was that the hand scan one? Dunnes has that, Tesco would pretty much need that one too- too much danger of someone clocking someone else in. Can't really see a major supermarket without a clock-in machine, they must have had cards before.

I remember that, it was an absolute pain. When I worked in Tesco, you could spend the first 20 mins of your shift waiting behind someone who couldn't get it to scan their thumb properly and you'd be late OFFICIALLY. Was a joke. I'd understand if the system worked but people were getting docked because the machine didn't work which was bloody stupid

wmpdd3

Thats the one, once you re-setup that person it shouldn't happen again. Our one has sparks coming off it it has to scan so fast!

Mrs OBumble

harvester of sorrow wrote: »

...how do you appraise some one based on the 20% of the time you see them?
...

Based on the RESULTS they achieve!

Targets met. Process changes implemented. Process changes identified. New business won. Existing business retained. Etc. Lots and lots of options, depending on what the company values.