Steam buffs sell engine to pay libel bill

Cookie_Monster

A society of steam train enthusiasts has been forced to sell its cherished engine after it was landed with a six-figure libel bill for an article in its journal, which has fewer than 500 readers.

For 16 years, they laboured to restore a derelict steam engine to the point where it hauled the Royal Train.

But now the volunteers of the 6024 Preservation Society, whose annual profits are less than £10,000, have been forced to sell their cherished loco – after being landed with a £342,000 High Court libel bill for an article in their journal which was sent to just 13 people outside their society.

The case, which has horrified the steam preservation world, was described by the society's chairman, Richard Abbey, as "farcical" and "another nail in the coffin of voluntary work".

It comes as Nick Clegg, the Deputy Prime Minister, promises major reforms of England's "chilling" libel laws.

6024, also known as King Edward I, is a celebrity locomotive which has hauled many special trains on the main line.

The autumn 2007 issue of King's Messenger, the 6024 Society's journal, included all the features you would expect – an engineering report on "boiler water treatment and the water carrier", a rail tour review and an article on steam railways in Poland.

Unfortunately, there was also a report about a dispute between the society and its former chairman, Steve Underhill, who was forced out in October 2007 after other members alleged that he had been paid for work on the locomotive which he should have done for nothing.

Mr Underhill categorically denies the allegations and says the meeting at which he resigned was a kangaroo court where he was given no warning of the charges and no proper chance to defend himself.

He sued the journal's editor, Tim Watson, for libel under a "no-win, no-fee" agreement for its "devastating and very serious allegations against his honesty and integrity".

Lawyers for the 6024 Society argued in court that the journal, with a circulation of just 400 copies, was covered by legal privilege because it is only read by members of the society. This argument was accepted by the court.

However, Mr Underhill's lawyers established that that issue of King's Messenger was also sent to 13 photographers – all non-members – whose work had appeared in its pages.

"It was completely farcical," said Mr Abbey. "The other side couldn't come up with any evidence that any of the 13 had actually read it. The vast majority, if not all of them, couldn't remember.

"They're photographers, all they wanted to see was whether their pictures were in.

'But that didn't seem to matter to the judge. You think - get a life. There are poor buggers being blown to pieces in Afghanistan, and we're talking about this.

"The crazy thing about the way the law is written is that the plaintiff has nothing to lose and you have everything to lose if you fight it. It was over three years of grief and hassle.

"I was cross-examined in the High Court and it's a pretty nerve-racking experience'.

Mr Watson, who stood to lose his home if the society had not backed him, said: "It should never have gone to the High Court. This could have ruined me and my family – it has dominated my life for three years.

"What the law does is make any claimant's position much stronger than any defendant's position. The sooner these politicians sort it out and make it equitable so people can defend themselves, the better."

At the hearing, Mr Watson and the society said they had honestly believed that what they had written was true at the time, but they agreed to drop their defences of justification and fair comment and pay damages and costs to Mr Underhill in what his counsel said was a "complete vindication" of him.

The damages of £7,500 awarded were dwarfed by the costs – of £335,000.

The society has been forced to sell the locomotive, though it has been purchased by another charity which will allow society members to continue to maintain and use it.

Mr Underhill said: "I feel very sad that it came to this. But I'd been with the society for 33 years, and I put in thousands and thousands of hours of work, and they accused me of something I hadn't done. What do you expect me to do?

"Reputation is everything in this game. Most of the people in the railway industry didn't believe [the claims] in the first place, but there's always that doubt in people's minds which you've got to dispel."

Mr Underhill also disputed that he was entirely covered by a no-win, no-fee deal, saying that he had had to risk £25,000 to £30,000 of his own money to get the case started.

Mr Abbey said: "We have saved the loco but what we went through was totally disproportionate. I'm not Jeffrey Archer or Katie Price – we're just a little two-bit organisation of volunteers.

"But we were held to the same standards as a professional newspaper with millions of copies sold, full-time lawyers and the rest of it. What this does is push another nail into the coffin of voluntary work."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/8247874/Steam-buffs-sell-engine-to-pay-libel-bill.html

Crazy story. The only winner here are the lawyers
Because the story has been picked up by the national media Steve Underhill's reputation is now ruined anyway, how could you possibly feel ok to let him near anything you run knowing the potential risk he poses.

CIE

Far more has gone mad in that country besides this matter. This is merely a symptom.

corktina

It just shows how careful you have to be in what you say, something boards memebrs need to take on ahem board.

The irish are far more keen on court procedures than UK peeps so the statement above needs quantifying somewhat

Judgement Day

:rolleyes:

dowlingm

Cookie - I would trim that last line if I were you.

Cookie_Monster

dowlingm wrote: »

Cookie - I would trim that last line if I were you.

why?

The first part is simply a statement of fact based on the negative outcome in the story caused by the party, the second part is merely a question posed to anyone based on the first.

dowlingm

because the society's allegations were never proven. If they had been able to advance a defence that what was in King's Messenger was true (since truth is a defence against a charge of defamation), they would have won on that basis, rather than merely that the publication was an internal document.

Cookie_Monster

dowlingm wrote: »

because the society's allegations were never proven. If they had been able to advance a defence that what was in King's Messenger was true (since truth is a defence against a charge of defamation), they would have won on that basis, rather than merely that the publication was an internal document.

but why bring it to court instead of asking for an amendment and apology to be printed, like most people would?
Why fight for 3 years knowing your destroying the very society you're supposedly dedicated to (win or lose the fallout would be catastrophic for all) just to get a few quids damages out of them?

To me that screams of being more interested in the money and his own rep than anything else. But thats just my opinion, I'm not accusing him, lest it be mistaken for fact:rolleyes:

corktina

Why? because he had a "no win no fee" arrangement with a company in whose interest a settlement like that would not be. (IMHO)

interlocked

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/8247874/Steam-buffs-sell-engine-to-pay-libel-bill.html

Crazy story. The only winner here are the lawyers
Because the story has been picked up by the national media Steve Underhill's reputation is now ruined anyway, how could you possibly feel ok to let him near anything you run knowing the potential risk he poses.

Well, in answer to your question Cookie Monster, Steve Underhill has been appointed CME to 6201 Princess Elizabeth by its owning body. Which would intimate that there is a lot more to the prevous story than meets the eye

The 6024 group appear to have been very lucky indeed as the loco has been bought by a trust backed by Jeremy Hosking, guaranteeing the loco's future. He has agreed that they can remain as support crew to the loco
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Hosking- No shortage of capital there!

dowlingm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

but why bring it to court instead of asking for an amendment and apology to be printed, like most people would?

Do you know that he didn't? Have you access to the original solicitor's letter?

daithi_lacha

Regardless of legal proceedings and the finer details of the case, it's wonderful that they've managed to 'keep things on track' and continue to preserve the loco. The costs involved are astronomical in keeping a loco like this in operation when it comes to boiler overhauls etc., so glad to see it's still being looked after!!!

CIE

daithi_lacha wrote: »

The costs involved are astronomical in keeping a loco like this in operation when it comes to boiler overhauls etc.

Correct, and that applies to any steam loco. Steam engines were custom-built in small batches (versus assembly-line mass-produced as diesels can be), so there was little to no standardisation. Even back then, parts had to be custom-made...so imagine how much more of an expense that would be nowadays versus back then when they had the industrial support.

corktina

excepting the GWR of course which was highly standardised and parts from one class of loco could be swapped to another easily.

oh and thinking about it, the LMS wasnt bad either for standarisation...hundreds each of classes 8f, Black 5s, 4Fs, o-8-0 etc etc

Capt'n Midnight

CIE wrote: »

Correct, and that applies to any steam loco. Steam engines were custom-built in small batches (versus assembly-line mass-produced as diesels can be), so there was little to no standardisation. Even back then, parts had to be custom-made...so imagine how much more of an expense that would be nowadays versus back then when they had the industrial support.

During WWII there were files at the workbenches where the lads made tanks, if a part didn't fit they made it fit. In the US the part would be sent back.

The big problem with the UK system was that when a tank broke down in combat lots of parts didn't fit and so it took a lot longer repair them than the US tanks where replacements parts fitted.

CIE

corktina wrote: »

excepting the GWR of course which was highly standardised and parts from one class of loco could be swapped to another easily.

oh and thinking about it, the LMS wasnt bad either for standarisation...hundreds each of classes 8f, Black 5s, 4Fs, 0-8-0 etc etc

None of those could be standardised past a certain point. Furthermore, there's no such thing as one-class-fits-all on any railway when it comes to steamers; they'll all have limitations. The LMS was able to whittle 400 classes of steamer down to maybe 100 or less, but with diesels, you'd only need a handful of classes to do the same jobs.

corktina

nonsense...there were 852 black fives, 842 8f 2-8-0s !

On the GWR there were 800 odd 57xx pannier tanks, which contained many parts (as most GWR classes did) that were not only interchangable within the class but between classes....

So theere was a large degree of standardisation in steam days...not as you say " Steam engines were custom-built in small batches "

daithi_lacha

Regardless of this, which can be argued til kingdom come, my initial point was quite simply that it is an expensive job to keep a steam loco in operation! Safety regulations require that boilers be overhauled every number of years which is an expense... even providing fuel for the things isn't cheap!

Which is a reason to admire the group that are still doing it, and indeed the 2 main groups in rail preservation in ireland...

I really didn't want to kick of an argument about standardisation

corktina

you are quite correct that nowadays maintaining /restoring a steam loco is hideously expensive and not really possible without the volunteer effort put in. Sadly, volunteeers and project in this end of the country are too few and weven if they were there, there isnt the pool of potential passengers avaialble down here

Mr Hoskins now owns several main line locos and more power to him , using his millions this way. In a way, these locos never belong to an individual any more than Newgrange could do. Owners are really only custodians for a future generation and it is an onerous obligation to take on.

I have nothing but admiration for these people.