Do air vents render gas fires useless?

JonnyBlackrock

I'd really like to get rid of the open fire I have in my living room. I'm sick and tired of the dirt and hassle, and I hate the freezing gale that comes down through the chimney.

I've been doing a bit of research into replacing it with a real fire lookalike gas fire.

I spoke to a gas fitter today, who told me that during December he TOOK OUT 17 gas fires for people who said they couldn't stand the icy wind that comes in through the vent.

What's the point of having a nice cosy fire if you have to have a gaping hole in the wall? Installation is going to be costly - about 800 for the fire, plus 1000 for a "gas run" as there's no gas point in our living room, plus however much for the actual installation of the fire, so there's no way I'm going to do it if it's rendered useless by a hole in the wall.

Is there any solution to this? Perhaps something that's not a gas fire? One of those stove things, or maybe a wood buring fire place with a glass cover? Or ultimately is there some way in which gas fires can be used effectively?

Any help would be most appreciated.

yoshytoshy

1800 euro for a gas fire ?

Is he using 18ct gold pipe or something ?

Get another price and enquire about backbox fires.

paddy147

The hole in your wall/vent is there for fresh air purposes,as this stops stale air and damp issues and its also to do with carbon monoxide issues from fires and people being killed in their sleep from fumes.

Well thats what a builder told me before.


But I see where you are comming from with regards keeping a house warm and still have a freezing cold stream of air entering the house

Alot of houses I was recently looking at in my neighbourhood dont have vents of any sort in the walls of their sitting rooms.The houses in my area are all mid 1950, to early 1960s.

Ive looked at other houses in other areas,more modern areas (late 70s to late 80s) and they too dont have any vents in their ground floor front walls.


So what is the regulations with regards vents???

I recently did have a 5 inch hole bored out through my front wall and a mechanical vent installed,but Im considering getting it filled back in and redashed,as the cold air that comes in,is sometimes quite shocking to live with.Especially when its windy outside.:eek:

I have internal insulated plasterboard and a multifuel stove though,so how does that affect the hole being filled back in and redashed?


Do I need a vent or not??

yoshytoshy

If your fire needs a vent and draughts bother you.

Check out this

paddy147

yoshytoshy wrote: »

If your fire needs a vent and draughts bother you.

Check out this

Thats just another gimmick.

You still have freezing cold entering the house and will still have draughts.

paddy147

JonnyBlackrock wrote: »

Perhaps something that's not a gas fire? One of those stove things, or maybe a wood buring fire place with a glass cover?

Thats what Id like to know too?

Is a mechanical vent/hole in the wall actually needed for a large living room with a stove casette/inbuilt in it?

yoshytoshy

paddy147 wrote: »

Thats just another gimmick.

You still have freezing cold entering the house and will still have draughts.

Whats with the rolleyes ?

These vents are out for over ten years ,I've installed a few for people over the years.

Whats your opinion based on ?

paddy147

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Whats with the rolleyes ?

These vents are out for over ten years ,I've installed a few for people over the years.

Whats your opinion based on ?

Show me where the proof and science is to back up all the "claims"??

At the end of the day,it still lets in freezing cold air and still lets in noise and cold draughts.

yoshytoshy

paddy147 wrote: »

Show me where the proof and science is to back up all the "claims"??

At the end of the day,it still lets in freezing cold air and still lets in noise and cold draughts.

Show me the smell in your room.

paddy147

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Show me the smell in your room.

There is no smell in my room.

Its a newly renovatted house with a Stovax Riva 66 cassette stove sealed into the fireplace.

What are you trying to say here with regards a small in my room???







I asking for you for the science and facts/tests to prove that this thingy works.

Theres nothing on that site to show or prove anything.

At the end of the day,it still lets in cold air and draughts and noise.

Its just a more expensive and fancier looking vent to a normal vent.

yoshytoshy

paddy147 wrote: »

There is no smell in my room.

Its a newly renovatted house with a Stovax Riva 66 cassette stove sealed into the fireplace.

What are you trying to say here with regards a small in my room???

I'm not trying to say anything ,I'm merely pointing out that you cannot call me liar when I suggest something.
Every room has a smell ,could be of paint etc. All I'm pointing out is that when someone says something on the internet ,it doesn't make them a spoofer.

paddy147

yoshytoshy wrote: »

I'm not trying to say anything ,I'm merely pointing out that you cannot call me liar when I suggest something.
Every room has a smell ,could be of paint etc. All I'm pointing out is that when someone says something on the internet ,it doesn't make them a spoofer.

I NEVER called you a liar mate,You should read back over what I posted and said.;)

I said its a gimmick and it still lets in freezing cold,draughts and noise.And thats just a more expensive and fancier looking vent.


I then asked you to show me the science or proof that it does what it says it does or "claims".

Theres nothing on that site that shows anything to back up the claims.
Thats what I said and posted.

yoshytoshy

paddy147 wrote: »

I NEVER called you a liar mate,You should read back over what I posted and said.;)

I said its a gimmick and it still lets in freezing cold,draughts and noise.And thats just a more expensive and fancier looking vent.


I then asked you to show me the science or proof that it does what it says it does or "claims".

Theres nothing on that site that shows anything to back up the claims.
Thats what I said and posted.

This is stupid now ,I said I installed them and you say you want proof.

paddy147

yoshytoshy wrote: »

This is stupid now ,I said I installed them and you say you want proof.

Do you actually read what is posted????

I said show me proof/science about what is claimed on the site/link that you posted.

The site shows and proves nothing,its just idle talk and unproven/unfounded "claims".

Its just a more expensive and fancier air vent,thats all.

Please actually re-read exactly what I posted.

yoshytoshy

Although I have the flu and find this post painful ,

Anyone who works on gas and knows about installing appliances is aware of the dangers of spillage.
The spillage warning on stadium's website is proof that this vent stop draughts and I've seen what a strong breeze can do with one of these vents installed.

On the sound front ,everybody knows sound travels through air and this vent breaks up normal airflow ,which in turn reduces the volume of sound travelling through it.

The only reason I'm still on this forum ,is because I'm full of steroids ,thats all.

JonnyBlackrock

Can we please stop arguing and get back to my original questions?

DoneDL

All fuels require air supply, so how anyone can say that installing solid fuel is the answer or installing gas is the answer to a draughty vent. Find a baffled vent, plenty of suppliers online, BES LTD are very good and install it in the least windy wall of the room.

MicktheMan

paddy147 wrote: »

So what is the regulations with regards vents???

From Part J of building regs:

3.5 Any room or space containing an open-flued
appliance should have a permanent ventilation
opening of at least 450 mm2 for each kW of
appliance input rating, but in no case less than 6500

mm2.

paddy147

MicktheMan wrote: »

From Part J of building regs:

3.5

Any room or space containing an open-flued

appliance should have a permanent ventilation

opening of at least 450 mm

2 for each kW of

appliance input rating, but in no case less than 6500
mm2.

The term "Open flued" would mean a built in/cassette multi fuel stove....yes??


Oh and thankyou.:)

pegasus1

paddy147 wrote: »

The term "Open flued" would mean a built in/cassette multi fuel stove....yes??


Oh and thankyou.:)

[/LEFT]

a stove when operating uses far less air than an ordinary coal fire..

here is a link that will help..it is from an american site....but we all live in the same air...

http://woodheat.org/outdoorair/outdoorairmyth.htm

this is a quote from it
Despite the fact that it is enshrined in some building codes and its adherents are often vocally forceful, there is no scientific evidence to suggest that outdoor air supplies, either direct to the combustion chamber or indirect supplies to the living space, are reliable and effective remedial measures for combustion spillage from the appliance for which the supply is intended.

Outkast_IRE

Best option i could see is a room sealed stove , i would put these into my home , you would need to do a good bit of research to find good make etc but in my opinion these are the way to go as more houses become airtight or passive.

paddy147

yoshytoshy wrote: »

If your fire needs a vent and draughts bother you.

Check out this

Ok so,can you tell me who stocks these or whenre I can get 1 from in Dublin?

Id like to see it in the flesh and see exactly what it is and looks like.

Thanks.

esox28

JonnyBlackrock wrote: »

I'd really like to get rid of the open fire I have in my living room. I'm sick and tired of the dirt and hassle, and I hate the freezing gale that comes down through the chimney.

I've been doing a bit of research into replacing it with a real fire lookalike gas fire.

I spoke to a gas fitter today, who told me that during December he TOOK OUT 17 gas fires for people who said they couldn't stand the icy wind that comes in through the vent.

What's the point of having a nice cosy fire if you have to have a gaping hole in the wall? Installation is going to be costly - about 800 for the fire, plus 1000 for a "gas run" as there's no gas point in our living room, plus however much for the actual installation of the fire, so there's no way I'm going to do it if it's rendered useless by a hole in the wall.

Is there any solution to this? Perhaps something that's not a gas fire? One of those stove things, or maybe a wood buring fire place with a glass cover? Or ultimately is there some way in which gas fires can be used effectively?

Any help would be most appreciated.

you will need the vent with what ever fuel burning appliance you choose to install as the vent has many purposes but the main one being it supplies you fire with oxygen for burning as we know that a burning flame needs oxygen to burn correctly, in a a well sealed room with a fire lit the burning process will begin to use all the oxygen in the room if no extra source is available as this happens your fire's fuel will not be able to burn completely and result in excessive production of carbon monoxide gas which can kill.

pegasus1

esox28 wrote: »

you will need the vent with what ever fuel burning appliance you choose to install as the vent has many purposes but the main one being it supplies you fire with oxygen for burning as we know that a burning flame needs oxygen to burn correctly, in a a well sealed room with a fire lit the burning process will begin to use all the oxygen in the room if no extra source is available as this happens your fire's fuel will not be able to burn completely and result in excessive production of carbon monoxide gas which can kill.

where did you get this from? i am sure it is just needed for a gas fire!

esox28

pegasus1 wrote: »

where did you get this from? i am sure it is just needed for a gas fire!

yea that'd be typical, your rite in away as a gas fire has a legal requirement to have propose provided ventilation and solid fuel doesn't. but think bout it for a second burning any fossil fuel or wood uses oxygen so if no vent where will the oxygen supply come from?:rolleyes:

SEVERA

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Best option i could see is a room sealed stove , i would put these into my home , you would need to do a good bit of research to find good make etc but in my opinion these are the way to go as more houses become airtight or passive.

i agree with outkast this is your best option room sealed ballanced flue stoves, they take there air in from outside for combustion, that is if you are fitting it to an outside wall otherwise this probably would not be an option. in fact building regs require air vents in every habitable room in a dwelling whether there be a fireplace in them or not, this is to me stupid as heat loss if applied would be enermous, a worthwhile solution would be whole house mechanical ventalation, where stale warm air is exhausted from bathrooms and kitchen utility rooms through a heat exchanger, where the fresh air input to living areas and bedrooms is delivered minus the chill factor. i would google fenton fires and wolf heat recovery systems

paddy147

esox28 wrote: »

yea that'd be typical, your rite in away as a gas fire has a legal requirement to have propose provided ventilation and solid fuel doesn't. but think bout it for a second burning any fossil fuel or wood uses oxygen so if no vent where will the oxygen supply come from?:rolleyes:

Multi fuel stoves,including inset stoves,do need an external vent/source of air.

Had this confirmed today by 2 stove/fire place companies here in Dublin.

And it also states the need for an air vent and specific air flow,in the back of my Stovax Riva 66 Stove catalogue and instruction booklet.;)

pegasus1

paddy147 wrote: »

Multi fuel stoves,including inset stoves,do need an external vent/source of air.

Had this confirmed today by 2 stove/fire place companies here in Dublin.

And it also states the need for an air vent and specific air flow,in the back of my Stovax Riva 66 Stove catalogue and instruction booklet.;)

As far as i am aware only a gas fed appliance needs by irish regs an air vent...

your stove's manual as supplied by an english company is upholding different regs.. i.e. english regs

how and never if for peace of mind if one wants to throw in a 4 inch diameter hole into the wall reducing the effectiveness of expensive insulation then so be it

just an after thought, CO spillage is a rare event, and every house bar the rare sealed type, has air leakage that would unknownly facilitate a gas fire, thats why most if not all new houses would get a bad ber rating regarding airseal test due to all the vents

just my 2 cents

esox28

have a look at this thread and c if co is a 'rare' occurrence http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056147732. unfortunately carbon monoxide can spill with any fossil fuel burning even in a room sealed appliance, ventilation and a co alarm your only chance.

IMO I would love to see co alarm/monitor to be installed as part of regulation!

pegasus1

pegasus1 wrote: »

and every house bar the rare sealed type, has air leakage that would unknownly facilitate a gas fire, thats why most if not all new houses would get a bad ber rating regarding airseal test due to all the vents

It's called adventitious ventilation and it's already factored in to ventilation requirements for gas appliances.

DoneDL

All open flue heating appliances including solid fuel are required by law to have suitable air supply, these are always a minimum figure and you can never take the 7KW allowance for adventicious air as a given. If any heating appliance has spillage then there will be no defence if it proves to be a bad install, remember that co will kill in 15 minutes and unless youve got a hyperbaric unit in the shed you`re going to be in pretty bad shape.