Why does anyone need VHI

cancercowboy

Donkeygonads wrote: »

I have VHI cover, I'm in my late 20's, active and fit and work in a remote location in the middle east , last year I got diagnosed with a groin hernia , waited until I came home on holidays to have surgery, checked in with a consultant in the Liffey Valley private and had surgery 4 days later ... Job done. Two years earlier I was home on hols and accidently fell off a wall and needed back surgery, got sorted in the Mater private ........ all taken care of by VHI. I'd be lost without it. It may cost a few euro but your health is your wealth at the end of the day .

You wouldn't have been "lost without it"... that's bollocks. you could have walked straight into the Beaumont Hospital and gotten the same quality of medical care. You chose to go private with the only benefit being you were sorted quicker.

As far as I am concerned VHI is a luxury and most people don't need it.

Before Christmas I got really sick, turns out I had Swine Flu. My GP rang ahead and I went to the Beaumont Hospital. Within four hours I was seen, had several tests done and was sent home with medication (Tamiflu) none of this cost me a dime out of pocket.

senordingdong

cancercowboy wrote: »

Before Christmas I got really sick, turns out I had Swine Flu. My GP rang ahead and I went to the Beaumont Hospital. Within four hours I was seen, had several tests done and was sent home with medication (Tamiflu) none of this cost me a dime out of pocket.

Why? Do you have a medical card?

cancercowboy

senordingdong wrote: »

Why? Do you have a medical card?

Nope. If you go to the accident and emergency or casualty department of a public hospital without being referred there by your GP, you will be charged €100. There is no charge if you are referred by a GP.

Two years ago I fractured my leg jumping over a railing. I went to St. James Hospital, again having my GP call ahead, and I was in and out in about 5 hours... including X-rays, cast and all. Again, no out of pocket cost... nothing.

Medical Cards mean free GP visits and free medication essentially.

Lets say something really bad happens to you:

The charge for in-patient/day services is €75 per day up to a maximum of €750 in a any 12 consecutive months. The charge does not apply to the following groups:

Medical card holders
People receiving treatment for prescribed infectious diseases
People who are subject to "long stay" charges
Children up to six weeks of age, children suffering from prescribed diseases and disabilities and children referred for treatment from child health clinics and school board examinations
People who are entitled to hospital services because of EU Regulations
Women receiving maternity services.

So, to sum this up... if you're sick you'll get sorted and probably won't cost you anything out of pocket.

I strongly agree we need to redesign our health service to offer better care and to make it more efficient. Before the introduction of Private health Insurance\Mary Harney as Health Minister to Ireland we had much better public heath care. However, you still don't need private health insurance... it's a scam. Harney wanted to get rid of public heath Care and emulate the health care in the US... and we all know how well that's going.

Honestly, feck VHI, and other private health carriers. Drop VHI, and use the public heath service... our taxes are propping up VHI anyway. When no one uses VHI, they can justify it's existence.

Now, Dental Insurance, that I understand as publically we don't offer a dental serive, some dental work can cost thousands.

o1s1n

I was on the fence about my VHI. Originally work paid for it all so I signed up as it was free. Last year they decided one of the cut backs was I now had to pay half. Now with the raise in price I've canceled it this morning.

I broke my leg last year, went VHI and the bill was €5,500. I didn't have to pay it thankfully, but did have a look through the list of costs. 99.9% of it was for the semi private ward. I think it was something like 800-900euro a night. I'd come from a public ward and to be honest the only real difference was there were two less old men beside me.

In future I'm just going to stick to public and pay the standard daily fee. I did this in the past for years with my Crohn's Disease and it was perfectly fine.

Just to add to the above (and something I didn't know until I looked into it after the fall) if your accident is someone elses fault and you wish to persue legal action, your medical insurance company will want to be reimbursed for the money they spent on you. Which is fair. But it's one less reason to go private.

tails_naf

OPENROAD wrote: »

How will they pay for it?

Actually universal health care would cost about the same as we are paying to the HSE right now. It just needs to be managed properly.

I remember I read on boards a few months back a case where a woman had the same procedure in France and Ireland.
She was in an out the same day in france and only met with a consultant and radiologist - but in the irish case she had to stay in, and it involved 5-6 nurses, a few doctors, consultants, radiologist, kitchen staff, porters, etc.
link to OP

In my own case, very recently my father in law had a mild stroke, and went up to CUH to get checked out.
He had the stroke on thursday morning, and needed a scan to check for blockages. Apparently the machine only had one operator, and he was 9-5, 5 days a week. The hospital kept him in until tuesday, before he could get a slot on the machine. So he was in all weekend, taking a bed, nurses, doctors, etc - why? Because the doctors in CUH told us that he needed to stay in to get on the waiting list - if he was discharged it could take longer, etc.
By the time he got the scan, any blockage was no longer visible due to the time between the attack and the scan!
We also found out the machine, which was new cost a few million euro, but lies idle most of the time, due to the single operator manning it.
So - machine idle, loads of hospital staff, and a scan that was too late to be useful.

Do you really think, if things were done differently that it HAS to cost more?

Link to FG's outline plan - fair care

So, same money spent, everyone covered, and better care. It is possible, other countries are doing it, so FG all the way on this one!!

cancercowboy

tails_naf wrote: »

Actually universal health care would cost about the same as we are paying to the HSE right now. It just needs to be managed properly.

I remember I read on boards a few months back a case where a woman had the same procedure in France and Ireland.
She was in an out the same day in france and only delt with a consultant and radiologist - but in the irish case she had to stay in, and delt with 5-6 nurses, a few doctors, consultants, radiologist, kitchen staff, porters, etc.
link to OP

In my own case, very recently my father in law had a mild stroke, and went up to CUH to get checked out.
He had the stroke on thursday morning, and needed a scan to check for blockages. Apparently the machine only had one operator, and he was 9-5, 5 days a week. The hospital kept him in until tuesday, before he could get a slot on the machine. So he was in all weekend, taking a bed, nurses, doctors, etc - why? Because the doctors in CUH told us that he needed to stay in to get on the waiting list - if he was discharged it could take longer, etc.
By the time he got the scan, any blockage was no longer visible due to the time between the attack and the scan!
We also found out the machine, which was new cost a few million euro, but lies idle most of the time, due to the single operator manning it.
So - machine idle, loads of hospital staff, and a scan that was too late to be useful.

This is why people go private... because Harney has mismanaged our Public health service to the point that no one wants to use it and all too conveniently she has introduced a an alternative that she implemented: Private Heath Insurance! it's like having Del Boy for Minister of Health. It's a scam, she created the need and then provided the "solution". The PDs were the the Republican Party in the US, I am so glad they are gone.

tails_naf wrote: »

Do you really think, if things were done differently that it HAS to cost more?

Link to FG's outline plan - fair care

So, same money spent, everyone covered, and better care. It is possible, other countries are doing it, so FG all the way on this one!!

Not to mention the hundred or so MILLION we spend annually propping up VHI.

cancercowboy

o1s1n wrote: »

I was on the fence about my VHI. Originally work paid for it all so I signed up as it was free. Last year they decided one of the cut backs was I now had to pay half. Now with the raise in price I've canceled it this morning.

I broke my leg last year, went VHI and the bill was €5,500. I didn't have to pay it thankfully, but did have a look through the list of costs. 99.9% of it was for the semi private ward. I think it was something like 800-900euro a night. I'd come from a public ward and to be honest the only real difference was there were two less old men beside me.

In future I'm just going to stick to public and pay the standard daily fee. I did this in the past for years with my Crohn's Disease and it was perfectly fine.

Just to add to the above (and something I didn't know until I looked into it after the fall) if your accident is someone elses fault and you wish to persue legal action, your medical insurance company will want to be reimbursed for the money they spent on you. Which is fair. But it's one less reason to go private.

...and just to make it clear it was only €5,500 because you went to a private hospital.

senordingdong

cancercowboy wrote: »

There is no charge if you are referred by a GP.

Really?
So you didn't pay anybody for anything?

cancercowboy

senordingdong wrote: »

Really?
So you didn't pay anybody for anything?

Nope. No out of pocket expense.

I just pay my taxes like everybody else.

Check this out:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/hospital_services/hospital_charges.html

senordingdong

That's mad.

Never been in the situation myself but if that's the way it is across the board then I'd have to agree with you.

mloc

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

Have you called to see your local TD? I'm sure they would help. I know my local TD and minister helped a neighbour get a medical card.

User name + post = fail.

o1s1n

cancercowboy wrote: »

...and just to make it clear it was only €5,500 because you went to a private hospital.

Yep, that's exactly it. And now as I am considering legal action they have been in contact with me looking for the money back.

If I just went public (I was in a public ward for half my treatment) I wouldn't have this headache at all.

cancercowboy

senordingdong wrote: »

That's mad.

Never been in the situation myself but if that's the way it is across the board then I'd have to agree with you.

Yes, we do have a "free" Public Health Service (that you don't need a medical card to use!). It is mismanaged, inefficient, and broken. Hopefully, the next government will improve it. However it does exist and compared to the Health Care in the US and many other countries it is very very good. Use it or lose it. You don't need private health insurance unless it covers dental, and most don't.

cancercowboy

o1s1n wrote: »

Yep, that's exactly it. And now as I am considering legal action they have been in contact with me looking for the money back.

If I just went public (I was in a public ward for half my treatment) I wouldn't have this headache at all.

Frankly, €5,500 is a rip off.

ghostdancer

macquarie wrote: »

Never had health insurance, will probably never need it (male, 28) . I've never been in hospital in my life (unless visiting someone) and been to the doctor maybe once in the last 10 years. Just eat plenty of fresh vegetables and fruit, do some exercise, and don't smoke/drink too much and I don't see any reason why someone would be visiting doctor/hospital so much as to warrant health insurance.

well, i'm glad you've found a fool-proof way of preventing so many illnesses and diseases. :rolleyes:

tails_naf

OSI wrote: »

So you didn't have to pay to visit the GP who referred you to the hospital, or the prescription medication? All of which you would need to pay for unless you had a medical card...

The GP visit isn't free on VHI either - you get, what 25 quid back per visit?
I do have VHI (get it through work), but have seriously considered declining it, as I really don't like the idea of private health insurance, and the fact that while we are not the USA (yet), we are copying their very broken system more and more each year.

The USA is the only first world country without some level of public health cover for all. 50 million in the US have no insurance. 75% of all personal bankruptcies are because of health-costs there, because you pay crazy amounts if you are not insured and sick, as there is no public safety net.

Case in point - My sister in law who is a teacher in the US, cannot stay at home to be her children, not because of salaries, but because she gets benefits, one of which is health-care.
If she quits her job, she loses the heath-care benefits (her husband's job does not offer health-care).
If she quits and opts to buy health-insurance, she cannot afford it (its many hundreds per month), but even if she could it would be useless - because she had cancer a few years ago (thankfully it has not come back).
Having being sick in the past is sad, as she is really locked in, as leaving her job and buying health-insurance, would lead to her signing up again, and cancer would not be covered then as it would be classified as 'pre-existing' condition.
So she is locked into her job, purely because of the private health insurance system there, and nothing else!
It is horrible really.

I know we can't believe that things could go that way here, that the system would be so cold as to refuse cover for pre-existing aliments, could cost hundreds per month, or exclude millions of people. People in the US in the late seventies would have said it would never happen there too, but look at them now.

We do NOT want to imitate any system like that, but every year more and more of us are of the opinion that private insurance is necessary, and it makes me really sick (pardon the pun!)

longhalloween

cancercowboy wrote: »

Not to mention the hundred or so MILLION we spend annually propping up VHI.

What pisses me off most about the cost of health insurance is that I, a 22 year old male who has not been in hospital for nearly 2 years (tore ankle ligaments) has to pay the same as a 70 year old, in poor health who visits the hospital every 3 months and who is on constant medication, because its 'illegal' to charge different prices for people who are statistically more likely to get sick.

Meanwhile I, as a 22 year old male has to pay quadruple the cost of car insurance, because statistically im more likely to crash.

cats.life

can any of you afford vhi now that its going up so i here. or does it matter cos cut backs are going to get worse. all the waiting in A and E. trolleys in the corridors ,beside toilets, .ive seen it in galway before the budget so what will it be like in few months when it realy kicks in.

sollar

Mary Harney has been a disaster for our health system.

I don't have health insurance and i really wish i had. I had no idea that the waiting lists are so long for anything other than the most obviously serious of conditions.

Cheap Thrills!

macquarie wrote: »

Never had health insurance, will probably never need it (male, 28) . I've never been in hospital in my life (unless visiting someone) and been to the doctor maybe once in the last 10 years. Just eat plenty of fresh vegetables and fruit, do some exercise, and don't smoke/drink too much and I don't see any reason why someone would be visiting doctor/hospital so much as to warrant health insurance.

Lol I hope the sun keeps shining for ya!

E.T.

macquarie wrote: »

Never had health insurance, will probably never need it (male, 28) . I've never been in hospital in my life (unless visiting someone) and been to the doctor maybe once in the last 10 years. Just eat plenty of fresh vegetables and fruit, do some exercise, and don't smoke/drink too much and I don't see any reason why someone would be visiting doctor/hospital so much as to warrant health insurance.

Well aren't you lucky? There are plenty of people who do everything you say, but have a genetic/inherited illness. You mightn't see any reason why they'd need health insurance, but I'm pretty sure they do.

Grassroots_FF

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

Do you not think paying customers deserve to be seen before those who don't pay? If you go into a restaurant and say you are hungry but have no money I'm sure they will give you some food but only after the paying customers have been fed first.

goat2

cats.life wrote: »

can any of you afford vhi now that its going up so i here. or does it matter cos cut backs are going to get worse. all the waiting in A and E. trolleys in the corridors ,beside toilets, .ive seen it in galway before the budget so what will it be like in few months when it realy kicks in.

really i cannot, but i still pay it, because i do have someone in the family that is very important that i have it for, i have suffered cancer when i was 27 so for all that i have no option but to keep it, also i do not socialise much maybe once in the 2 or 3 months, would rather keep vhi in place for my daughter, but will be taking it down to two family members so it may be cheaper, or seeing what bupa has to offer
the rest of us can just clam up the corridors if we get ill, so those of you on public health should have been thanking us for paying private and going to private hospitals or paying our way in public wards, as from now on you can add big numbers to those waiting for treatment, because they can no longer pay vhi,

Cheap Thrills!

I have Quinn, used to have VHI, then changed to Bupa because it was cheaper. Then Quinn took Bupas customers. Bit nervous about it when Quinn went pear shaped.:(

TeddyTedson

Why does anyone need VHI

Don't need it but it's nice to have for a bit of music before a night out :pac:

daithi2011

Like people sticking with BOI after they increased their charges,
Well if people dont use the competition, then competition means nothing, and they'll all be riding us like the VHI is now.
Make them compete. Move your Medical insurance.

Groinshot

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

Have you called to see your local TD? I'm sure they would help. I know my local TD and minister helped a neighbour get a medical card.

This is wrong in so many ways... What do you think your TD's job is?

Groinshot

tails_naf wrote: »

The GP visit isn't free on VHI either - you get, what 25 quid back per visit?
I do have VHI (get it through work), but have seriously considered declining it, as I really don't like the idea of private health insurance, and the fact that while we are not the USA (yet), we are copying their very broken system more and more each year.

The USA is the only first world country without some level of public health cover for all. 50 million in the US have no insurance. 75% of all personal bankruptcies are because of health-costs there, because you pay crazy amounts if you are not insured and sick, as there is no public safety net.

Case in point - My sister in law who is a teacher in the US, cannot stay at home to be her children, not because of salaries, but because she gets benefits, one of which is health-care.
If she quits her job, she loses the heath-care benefits (her husband's job does not offer health-care).
If she quits and opts to buy health-insurance, she cannot afford it (its many hundreds per month), but even if she could it would be useless - because she had cancer a few years ago (thankfully it has not come back).
Having being sick in the past is sad, as she is really locked in, as leaving her job and buying health-insurance, would lead to her signing up again, and cancer would not be covered then as it would be classified as 'pre-existing' condition.
So she is locked into her job, purely because of the private health insurance system there, and nothing else!
It is horrible really.

I know we can't believe that things could go that way here, that the system would be so cold as to refuse cover for pre-existing aliments, could cost hundreds per month, or exclude millions of people. People in the US in the late seventies would have said it would never happen there too, but look at them now.

We do NOT want to imitate any system like that, but every year more and more of us are of the opinion that private insurance is necessary, and it makes me really sick (pardon the pun!)

Sorry, but I fail to see the tragedy in your sister in laws situation (other than the cancer, not trying to be smart) but she's "stuck" in a job that gives her free health insurance? and pays her? I know in my household for me to be in college, I work, my father works and my mother works (and I don't pay fees.) our household can't even consider someone staying at home, even if we got free health insurance out of it...

daithi2011

queensinead wrote: »

VHI is of little use if you get pregnant. As far as I understand it covers very little, unless you have a Caesarean, which is counted as surgery.

If there are any sort of complications during pregnancy. Then you'll find out pretty quick the difference between private and public.

Insurance is something you pay for, and then hope to God you are throwing your money away, because if you have to use that insurance it means something bad has happened.

ghostdancer

ghostdancer wrote: »

well, i'm glad you've found a fool-proof way of preventing so many illnesses and diseases. :rolleyes:

I actually know loads of simpletons who believe that eating fruit and doing exercise makes them immune to cancer and all diseases. They think anyone who is sick must have brought it on themselves. Awful lot of bad karma coming their way, I imagine.