VHI charges to go up by 45%

Atilathehun

This week we felt Lenny's hand in our pay packets, which are substantially lighter as a result.
On top of that, if you happen to be on VHI plan B or B PLUS Options, you face a 45% premium increase.

VHI to raise premiums by up to 45% next month



http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0106/breaking32.html



VHI Healthcare has announced that its health insurance premiums will increase by as much as 45 per cent for some customers from February 1st.
While the average price hike for the majority of the health insurer’s 1.35 million subscribers will be 15 per cent, people on the popular Plan B and Plan B options face increases of between 35 and 45 per cent.
From the beginning of next month, the premium for an adult on Plan B will go up by €317 to €1,224, while someone who has a Plan B Options policy will see the cost of their annual premium rise by €444 to €1,430. This amounts to an increase of €26 per month for Plan B customers and €37 per month for Plan B Options customers.
Some 29 per cent of the health insurer’s customers currently have one or other of these policies.
VHI Healthcare chief executive Jimmy Tolan said the company was announcing the price increases with “regret” but it could no longer afford to provide cover at current prices. "Even with the announced price increases this will not prevent us from incurring significant losses in providing the cover under these plans," he said.
He said the both the two B plans, which tend to be popular amongst an older demographic, accounted for losses of €100 million last year.
The average family of two adults and two children on a Parents and Kids policy will see their health insurance premiums increase by €331 per annum, or €27.60 per month. The same price increase of 15 per cent will apply to the premiums of a further 60 per cent of its customers.
Mr Tolan said he anticipated its customers would require 10 per cent more healthcare in 2011 compared to last year.
He said the recently announced increases in public hospitals of 21 per cent would add a further €60 million to the VHI bill this year. He said this increase, together with further planned increases for 2012, accounted for 8 per cent of the planned price increase announced this morning.
“Over the last two years we have taken many steps to contain the rising costs of meeting our customers' healthcare needs. These include a 15 per cent reduction in consultant's fees, 6 per cent reduction in private hospital fees, agreeing maximum revenue levels for private hospitals and an annual reduction in administration costs of €15 million. Today’s price increase is necessary to provide healthcare cover for all of our customers.”
More than half of the VHI’s annual expenditure is spent meeting the healthcare needs of older customers and Mr Tolan said he anticipated this would continue to rise. “Our older customers will continue to live longer with more chronic conditions, thus requiring more medical care.”
He denied that the company was targeting older and more vulnerable members of the community and said it was the Government’s responsibility to decide the level of tax credits necessary to provide support for older insured people. "Tax credits at current levels reduce VHI’s annual losses of insuring older customers from €170 million to €147 million post the recent increase in private beds in public hospitals," he said.
He said VHI Healthcare would have faced average losses of €850 on each of its 129,000 customers over the age of 70 if it did not raise premiums. "For as long as the tax credits do not deal with the losses produced by covering older customers VHI must instead, each year, increase its prices much more than it wishes to, or than VHi thinks is fair to any of its customers," Mr Tolan added.
He said the health insurance market was broken and allowed its rivals maximise their profits by targeting a younger – and less costly – customer base. He said that the VHI was a not-for-profit company and had paid out more 96 per cent of the money it had taken in last year in to cover the healthcare costs of its customers. This, he said, compared with a 60 per cent payout from Hibernian Aviva.
The Government recently increased the annual levy imposed on health insurance companies for everyone covered by private insurance. The Department of Health increased the levy from €185 to €205 for adults and from €55 to €66 for children with effect from January 1st.

ankles

Any information about Company Plans? Looks like they're trying to shut down Plan B

Liam Byrne

He said that the VHI was a not-for-profit company and had paid out more 96 per cent of the money it had taken in last year in to cover the healthcare costs of its customers

So 4% on office costs, payroll & expenses, and an awful lot of very, very sick people requiring very, very expensive treatment ? :eek:

Something tells me this couldn't possibly be true ?

Re the 45% rise - if they try that they'll have lost a customer, because I couldn't possibly afford that much.

I'm almost tempted to ring and cancel this minute.

P.S. Just rang there now to object to this (and possibly cancel) and they "are unable to take [my] call due to a high volume of calls"; looks like I'm not the only one contemplating returning their two fingers to them!

Atilathehun

If you are lucky enough to have your employer pay the sub for you, it's not so bad if the employer doesn't baulk at the increase.

However, it will still cost you as Lenny will take his tax and new USC out of your now much increased BIK value:(

jmayo

45% increase :eek:

This country just keeps on taking.

Maybe it is part of a grand plan to get people to leave ?
First they make sure that graduates leave, then they can move onto anyone that might want some level of proper healthcare.
Who will be next ?

Scarab80

Liam Byrne wrote: »

So 4% on office costs, payroll & expenses, and an awful lot of very, very sick people requiring very, very expensive treatment ? :eek:

Something tells me this couldn't possibly be true ?

Unfortunately this is pretty close to the truth, see VHI annual report for 2009.

1.35bn in premiums paid to VHI
1.34bn in claims paid out
92m in operating expenses
30m gain on some investments
Resulting in a 50m loss.

ei.sdraob

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Re the 45% rise - if they try that they'll have lost a customer, because I couldn't possibly afford that much.

I paid for the year but if it goes up by any amount next renewal, ill consider cancelling or switching, havent been to a GP or hospital since last century :eek: knocks wood table

doc_17

ei.sdraob wrote: »

I paid for the year but if it goes up by any amount next renewal, ill consider cancelling or switching, havent been to a GP or hospital since last century :eek: knocks wood table

I'm with Aviva and after decline in income I was looking at things to cut and health insurance came to mind. I decided against it. I hope I never need it. But once you get it it's like picking the same numbers on the lotto every week......you get scared to stop. (don't play lotto btw but see my mum panicking when she forgets).

mikemac

doc_17 wrote: »

I'm with Aviva and after decline in income I was looking at things to cut and health insurance came to mind.

Way offtopic but if you ever consider laser eye surgury, the insurers offer money back on the procedure.

It's possible to pay the premium, have the procedure, claim 1000 euro back and then cancel the policy.
There is no waiting period and this has been successfully done

If you still want health insurance you can always stay with them of course or go to another company

kippy

Posted in the same topic in AH earlier but its just as appropriate here:

When you think about the amount of money we, as citizens, put into the HSE, it is a joke that we have to supplement this, in a major with private health insurance and health insurance that almost impossible to unscramble as to what you are and are no covered for as well as all of the variable excesses.

I've had private health insurance since I started working in 2002, some part paid by employer but now fully paid for by myself. Including cover for herself its about 1400 bills a year. Currently with Aviva. A lot of money out of your net Income.
I dont actually think I have ever claimed much on it, I know she hasnt and I am begining to seriously question its value (that being said, I am not gonna start complaining about never having to utilise it, that is a good thing), especially in the Austere times we live in and with the cost probably heading closer to 2000 bills.

Yet another (almost unavoidable) "cost of living" for an employed person, who has already taken paycuts, tax rises and sees further impending pay cuts and tax rises down the line.

I dunno.
It's gonna be another major question I will be asking the bunch of clowns that will be looking for my vote in a few months but I dont expect anything ground breaking to be forthcoming.

Liam Byrne

ei.sdraob wrote: »

I paid for the year but if it goes up by any amount next renewal, ill consider cancelling or switching, havent been to a GP or hospital since last century :eek: knocks wood table

In over 20 years I've claimed once re a broken jaw; so by losing me they've increased their losses.

Genius business plan, there!

Poly

Where de fcuk is Harney? Does she not have to approve VHI price rises?

Is she even in the country?

goat2

i will have to stop my subscription to vhi, gone right over my pocket right now, so here is one more family who will be sitting on trolleys in corridors sometime in the future, what a shame as there is going to be too little to go round for all

paddy

Jesus, everything this shambles of a government touches ends up costing everyone a bomb. As for Harney, she'll blame the HSE/risk equalisation.

donkey balls

I cancelled my VHI plan B option last year due to the loss of my job up to then I was with them from 97-till last year,My plan just for my self was 800e a year.
Even though I have managed to pick up some work (temping with an agency)it was one luxury that needed to go With the price increase.
I will need to have a good paying job to afford to pay for it again and even then I could pay for my car &house insurance twice with the VHI costs.:eek:

BrownianMotion

On my last renewal VHI automatically transferred to One Plan Extra from Plan B. This was the same cost with a marginal increase in benefits.

I've never claimed anything from VHI and would be in a low risk demographic for future possible claims. I'd be interested to know if anybody in a higher risk demographic was automatically transferred or perhaps it was hoped they would be sufficiently outraged by a hefty increase to transfer their loss making policy to anther insurer, rather than another policy with VHI.

jimmycrackcorm

For the life of me I cannot understand why people don't move from VHI to one of the cheaper options. But then again how may bord Gais customers refuse to move to airtricty for a 20% monthly price reduction.....

wildefalcon

Poly wrote: »

Where de fcuk is Harney? Does she not have to approve VHI price rises?

Is she even in the country?

No, she's on holidays.

ei.sdraob

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

But then again how may bord Gais customers refuse to move to airtricty for a 20% monthly price reduction.....

When it comes to energy in Ireland, if the prices were not artificially set high and manipulate to give an illusion of competition things would be cheaper, but no.

oppenheimer1

It looks like here that the VHI recognise that its oldest and most expensive customers like the plan B and B option plans. By massively increasing the premia they are hoping they will either move to a lower cheaper to implement plan or better still leave the company completely. VHI is a not-for-profit company so I tend to believe what they say. The real villains in this story are the healthcare providers who know that they can charge whatever they like as people generally spare no expense when it comes to health - and generally will pay their last cent to stay well or recover. Sick people generally don't make good negotiators.

Consultant and other healthcare providers pay needs to come down to more realistic levels - and the burden of older more expensive customers needs to be shared out among all insurers.

kaiser sauze

I, for one, do not understand why people struggle to pay for private health insurance, when paying such subs does not guarantee you a jump in the queue, while we have a public system.

Granted, that public system is not perfect, but you will receive necessary care and treatment and it won't cost you.

amacachi

Just out of interest could someone give a link to what kind of ballpark figure health insurance costs in the US? I'd love to know where all the money is going in this country's healthcase system.

ct_roy

amacachi wrote: »

Just out of interest could someone give a link to what kind of ballpark figure health insurance costs in the US? I'd love to know where all the money is going in this country's healthcase system.

heard on the right hook this evening it's about $13k per annum :eek::eek:

kaiser sauze

amacachi wrote: »

Just out of interest could someone give a link to what kind of ballpark figure health insurance costs in the US? I'd love to know where all the money is going in this country's healthcase system.

If you paid for health insurance out of your own pocket there you would pay $15,000 for a family.

Most US people have employer subsidised schemes though which reduces this cost considerably.

We get off lightly here in comparison, but unless something is done about our cost curve we will end up in the same situation as they are.

kaiser sauze

ct_roy wrote: »

heard on the right hook this evening it's about $13k per annum :eek::eek:

Correct.

Groinshot

Why do people associate paying for PRIVATE insurance, and the quality of health care provided by the body that we're not paying for it..

jimmycrackcorm

The problem with the cost of private healthcare is that not enough people pay for it. At the end of the day health care is a huge cost that people are reluctant to pay for.

galway2007

Please remember that you can cancel your policy for up to 13 week and not lose any of the benefits or waiting time
If you get sick within that 13 week period which every health company you join must cover your costs
Every year when I get my renewal I do not renew it for 13 weeks saving me about 600 euros so I really pay for 9 months
Visit www.hia.ie for more details
So to sum it up I canceled my policy in December and will not renew it till March

gobythewall

jmayo wrote: »

45% increase :eek:

This country just keeps on taking.

Maybe it is part of a grand plan to get people to leave ?
First they make sure that graduates leave, then they can move onto anyone that might want some level of proper healthcare.
Who will be next ?

Now it makes sense! I don't know whether to run now or be the last cantankerous ejit here.

galway2007

kaiser sauze wrote: »

If you paid for health insurance out of your own pocket there you would pay $15,000 for a family.

Most US people have employer subsidised schemes though which reduces this cost considerably.

We get off lightly here in comparison, but unless something is done about our cost curve we will end up in the same situation as they are.

most irish people that i know have subsidised schemes except one again public sector employees

irishh_bob

i cancelled my subscription with bupa in 2005 ( or was it 2004 ) and was then involved in an accident in 2007 , i rejoined with QUINN in early 2008 , have spent thousands on proceedures this past few years and am now due to spend up on 30 k this year on a big op ( although i do have the option of having it done in the public health system provided im willing to wait ), as my accident pre - dates my joining up with quinn , im not covered , my advice to anyone who is thinking of cancelling thier sub , think long and hard

irishh_bob

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

It looks like here that the VHI recognise that its oldest and most expensive customers like the plan B and B option plans. By massively increasing the premia they are hoping they will either move to a lower cheaper to implement plan or better still leave the company completely. VHI is a not-for-profit company so I tend to believe what they say. The real villains in this story are the healthcare providers who know that they can charge whatever they like as people generally spare no expense when it comes to health - and generally will pay their last cent to stay well or recover. Sick people generally don't make good negotiators.

Consultant and other healthcare providers pay needs to come down to more realistic levels - and the burden of older more expensive customers needs to be shared out among all insurers.

its time real competition was introduced to sheltered sectors of the economy , its absurd that the brokest country in europe has the second wealthiest consultants and GP,s in the entire world

HermesHermione

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

For the life of me I cannot understand why people don't move from VHI to one of the cheaper options. But then again how may bord Gais customers refuse to move to airtricty for a 20% monthly price reduction.....

My dear parents would not move to airtricity because they might not get their allowances!! or from VHI as they have been with them forever. They feel 'loyalty' to these service providers.

ei.sdraob

Could this increase be politically directed?

Just bear with me and let me explain
Could the order to raise prices this much came from above? for one or all of these reasons:
1. make VHI more profitable by pushing away people costing most out of private healthcare therefore making VHI seem more lucrative and then selling it, netting the state some cash
and/or
2. pushing people to competitors with the likes of Quinn benefiting their buddies...

just thinking out loud here considering there was an announcement back in spring that VHI will be privatized in 3 years or less

Liam Byrne

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Could this increase be politically directed?

Just bear with me and let me explain
Could the order to raise prices this much came from above? for one or all of these reasons:
1. make VHI more profitable by pushing away people costing most out of private healthcare therefore making VHI seem more lucrative and then selling it, netting the state some cash
and/or
2. pushing people to competitors with the likes of Quinn benefiting their buddies...

just thinking out loud here considering there was an announcement back in spring that VHI will be privatized in 3 years or less

Interesting idea.

The only flaw is that I have cost VHI SFA and I have just sent them advance notice of my cancellation.

So they won't be more profitable if this goes ahead.

ei.sdraob

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Interesting idea.

The only flaw is that I have cost VHI SFA and I have just sent them advance notice of my cancellation.

So they won't be more profitable if this goes ahead.

Well this move seems so dumb and out of the blue the only explanation I can think of is politicians being involved :P

Seeing that the people hit the hardest would be the ones who would make the most use of it (Plan B for example), it does seem they are trying to push people away that are not as "profitable".

goat2

Poly wrote: »

Where de fcuk is Harney? Does she not have to approve VHI price rises?

Is she even in the country?

she dont give 2 focks about us, she does not know what it is like to have long term sick children, does not know what it is to sleep on floor near childs bed in hospital for a whole week every few yrs, she does not have a clue, i would like if she had spent a week in my shoes when a child of mine was seriously sick in hospital 150 miles away from home, having to live out of a car for the week, and sleep on chair or floor next to child,

bernardo mac

You're right Goat2,Harney knows effall about that kind of experience.She's off having a very comfortable break funded by us.Hope your child is well.

Dannyboy83

I once again fail to understand the logic employed by Irish institutions.

A)
Problem:
Too many old customers who cost too much, not enough young customers who cost virtually nothing

Solution:
Increase prices for everyone, thereby driving away young customers - ...........erm, no

How about
Solution:
Undercut competitors and present young customers with offers they cannot refuse? Driver competitors out of the market.


What is the result of these prices increases?
People cancelling their policies and switching to competitors.
I fail to understand how this alleviates the problem.
It doesn't, it exacerbates it.


I've been insured with Quinn since 2005 and I have my partner insured with them. I've never claimed, ever.
My partner wanted me to cancel her policy entirely as she has found it useless and avoids Irish hospitals at all costs, preferring to return to her own former communist country to get better medical treatment in less time at a fraction of the cost.
I refused to cancel her policy but I downgraded it, and the only reason I haven't downgraded my own to the bare minimum is because I might avail of the laser eye surgery when I have the money saved.

C)
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned elsewhere, but Quinn also increased their prices since 2008, about 20% in our case over 2/3 years.
What do VHI stand to lose by offering me a cheaper policy than Quinn will offer? As far as I can see, they only stand to gain.

There are thousands of young people who don't bother with health insurance or can't afford it anymore. Why not bring them back into the market by offering cheap policies? Would this not alleviate the problem?

D)
The risk equalisation measures are a disgrace in my mind.
As a younger male, I'm still getting screwed on my car insurance (went up 10% last year with Quinn despite never claiming), yet I'm also expected to subsidize older people's health insurance.

It's another example of the "Generation Game" which David McWilliams wrote about years ago. The younger generation in this country are being robbed from all angles.

E)
I think it is a huge mistake to 'allow' these prices increases to go ahead.
Insurance companies, the HSE, the medical profession are asking for more and more money every year, yet the service offered is shambolic compared to what I've seen in other countries.

I know lots of emigrants, and not one of them will attend Irish hospitals or GPs, they all go home. Make of that what you will.

After months and months of jumping through hoops, my partner actually gave up trying to get treatment here last year and just went home to have surgery in her own country. It was done privately, cost less than half of what we paid for her health insurance for the year in Ireland, and it was done'n'dusted in 3 days from start to finish.
The surgeons comment to her, and I quote directly was "The doctors in Ireland are butchers, your condition should never have been allowed to progress to the stage it was. I've seen thousands of people coming back from Ireland for treatment and the general impression I get is that they are all cowboys".
Quinn refused to cover the cost of the surgery, hence we downgraded her policy to emergency cover only.

I heard on Newstalk today that private beds in the Blackrock Clinic cost €2000 per day!! Many of the people I work with have a lower gross monthly salary than that. Why don't the VHI renegotiate? Who else is going to pay it? Albanians???
If they refuse to negotiate with their main customer, they'll just go out of business, duh?

Where is the reform?
All sectors of society in Ireland have been expected to reform, lower costs and increase productivity, yet it doesn't seem to be happening in a few sectors, medical being one.

Allowing these increases will be a mistake because it will just be increase after increase after increase.

I cannot fathom where all the money we already pay is going.

Padraig Mor

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

For the life of me I cannot understand why people don't move from VHI to one of the cheaper options. But then again how may bord Gais customers refuse to move to airtricty for a 20% monthly price reduction.....

1. Because the other companies generally charge just as much as VHI (despite VHI always grabbing the price increase headlines).

2. Because Airtricity are not 20% cheaper and are, quite frankly, dodgy.

kippy

Padraig Mor wrote: »

2. Because Airtricity are not 20% cheaper and are, quite frankly, dodgy.

Dodgy?
I wouldnt like to have to back up that claim.

Padraig Mor

kippy wrote: »

Dodgy?
I wouldnt like to have to back up that claim.

Head on over to the Consumer Issues forum. Plenty of evidence there......

kippy

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Head on over to the Consumer Issues forum. Plenty of evidence there......

I could go into the consumer issues forum (or similiar fora elsewhere) and find threads about almost every company in operation in this country. It doesn't give you or anyone else the legal claim to call them "dodgy".

dan_d

I'm not a VHI customer.I'm with Aviva.

But even at that, I seriously, seriously resent paying health insurance.

Because let's face it, a chunk of my tax goes into our "public" health system.

Now there are those out there of course, that say, "there's no obligation on
you to have insurance". True. But if I DON'T have health insurance, I'm just out of the frying pan and into the fire. Perish the thought that I be badly ill (not that I ever am).

These rises are a "business" decision by VHI which is fair enough. They are a business.The reason they are creating such a problem is that people are already handing over MORE money to fund the health system through their taxes, and secondly, because we're a captive audience.We have very little choice in this - there's 2 other providers and the public system.And that's it. The lesser of the 2 evils is to keep changing around your provider - because let's face it, relying on the public system could be very bad, and most of us won't take that risk with our health.

In conclusion? It makes me very,very angry.:mad:

kingQuez

kaiser sauze wrote: »

I, for one, do not understand why people struggle to pay for private health insurance, when paying such subs does not guarantee you a jump in the queue, while we have a public system.

Granted, that public system is not perfect, but you will receive necessary care and treatment and it won't cost you.

Erm... This year I had a scan which I had two hours after being in with my GP because I had private insurance; without insurance I'd be on the six week waiting list to have the same scan performed under the public system. Six weeks is a long time to wait if your heart isn't working properly.

Think its time to jump from VHI now though.. Anyone know what the equivalent of plan b excess is on the other providers?

jester77

Health insurance is still relatively cheap in Ireland and maybe that is why the system is not so good. I'm paying around 5K here in Germany per annum and that is subsidized, my employer pays roughly the same again, so overall it costs about 10k to cover me for the year. This is for the public health insurance and is mandatory. I could go private but then I have to cover all costs up front and claim them back which is ok for small procedures but I wouldn't like to have to cover the costs of an expensive operation up front. Doctors, nurses & consultants are paid nowhere near what they are in Ireland.

The whole system over there needs a total overhaul and people also need to realise that paying a few hundred a year is not going to cover costs.

bernardo mac

Cannot find out from VHI how much my PlanB will rise and when? Not a healthy situation.

galway2007

Can anybody tell me what a corporate rate is?
Is it the 10% discount or do employers that pay there employees VHi get a cheaper rate?
The option you could take up now is to take out a policy today and worry about the price rise next year
On the vhi website they off you a policy start date up to the 1/03/2011 at today price

Padraig Mor

kippy wrote: »

I could go into the consumer issues forum (or similiar fora elsewhere) and find threads about almost every company in operation in this country. It doesn't give you or anyone else the legal claim to call them "dodgy".

I'd hardly call "dodgy" a legal claim TBH. And it is a 100% fact that Airtricity salespeople consistently lie to potential customers in order to get them to sign up (I know, I've heard plenty from them). Getting kinda off topic though......

Cookie_Monster

Padraig Mor wrote: »

And it is a 100% fact that Airtricity salespeople consistently lie to potential customers in order to get them to sign up (I know, I've heard plenty from them). Getting kinda off topic though......

big time, outright lies even when I told them exactl how much I was paying with BG and would with them cos I'd checked it all, they generally don't mention the 12 month contract requirement either. They're really pushy too and despite me complaining to Airtricity and having my house marked in as a do not call to location they still do. :mad:

kaiser sauze

kingQuez wrote: »

Erm... This year I had a scan which I had two hours after being in with my GP because I had private insurance; without insurance I'd be on the six week waiting list to have the same scan performed under the public system. Six weeks is a long time to wait if your heart isn't working properly.

Think its time to jump from VHI now though.. Anyone know what the equivalent of plan b excess is on the other providers?

Yep, it's not perfect. Many people cannot afford health insurance and they have to suffer that six week wait, but it is not out of their pockets directly.