All these new signs

etchyed

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Was thinking about this since I saw a Corkbound English car swerve sharply at the last second on the 200m long merge section
(such a major interchange would warrant at the very least 1km of merge abroad BTW)

The de-facto situation at the busy Waterford M9 turnoff by people in the know might be a solution.

People going to Waterford along with Sunday drivers tend to the left lane.
People keeping to the M7 tend to the right lane.
(the speed also tends to 100kmh!)

SIMPLY formalising this by splitting the Waterford/ M7 traffic earlier would ENSURE nobody gets lost.

The same could apply for the M8/ M7 junction.
1km + before the split, change the left/ right aka driving/ overtaking lanes to a Cork/ Limerick decoupling section.
i.e. Cork traffic is directed to the left lane, Limerick traffic is directed by overhead gantry to the right lane.
At the existing de-merge section, the 1 lane to cork/ 1 lane to Limerick becomes 2 lanes to cork/ 2 lanes to Limerick.
(A 100 limit though may be appropriate for that 1000/ 1500m section)

As a solution its not the worst.
Costwise you only need a gantry or 2 and a thickening of the white line between driving lane 1 and lane 2 for a kilometre.
Its safe and the traffic isn't that high that you are causing any unneeded congestion.
Its also proven as its already the defacto situation at the M7/ M9 split.

The alternative would be to lenthen the 4 lanes back another km, which would be a costly exercise for a government that has no cash, and the private operator wouldnt do it for free.

While I see the logic of your suggestion and I realise it's a compromise, I think that on balance it's a bad idea.

Unlike niloc, I don't recall seeing such an arrangement (lane drop on a 2-lane road) anywhere else. Lane discipline on Irish motorways is bad enough already without giving people the impression that they ever need to be in the overtaking lane to avoid an exit. With signs as far as 4km in advance it should be clear to motorists intending to exit that they need to get ready to exit by staying in the driving lane. And if they don't pay attention to signs for a turn-off exit what's to say they'll pay attention to signs for a lane drop exit?

etchyed

niloc1951 wrote: »

:o:o I was one. TBH I was chatting to SWMBO and cruising along at a relaxed 110 km.p.h. and forgot I needed to leave the road I was on.

So you weren't paying attention.

niloc1951 wrote: »

I know there is a lot of signage, but is there something wrong with it as quite a few drivers appear to have failed to respond to it , perhaps its the old proverb of not seeing the tree for the forrest :rolleyes:

Actually, it's to not see the forest for the trees but whatever. If you mean an inability on drivers' part to see relevant signs because of clutter then that doesn't really make sense in this context. There are signs saying M8 Cork at 4km, 2km, 1km and 500m from this junction and nothing else to distract the driver's attention from them.

niloc1951 wrote: »

...perhaps the 'experts' at the NRA or the RSA might ... before the 'experts' exercise their little grey cells 'outside the box'.

Ah, the old trick of dreaming up a bunch of imaginary idiots and referring to them as quotation-mark surrounded "experts" to emphasise their supposed incompetence. I note your imaginary idiots are unable to think outside the box. I'm guessing they're also guilty of "tunnel vision", groupthink and public service laziness.

niloc1951 wrote: »

Well thought out, it's good to see people think for a solution rather than consider the status quo to be without fault.

Nice of you to compliment munchkin_utd for his post. Of course his idea will not have been considered by any of those lazy, closeminded "experts" at the NRA

To be honest, niloc, the overall picture I'm getting from your posts is that the main problem with the M7/M8 diverge is, well... you. An implementation of munchkin_utd's suggestion would not have helped you as you weren't reading the signs anyway. Maybe that's because, as is apparent from your first post in this thread, you don't seem to see the point of road signs in the first place.

niloc1951

etchyed wrote: »

So you weren't paying attention.


Actually, it's to not see the forest for the trees but whatever. If you mean an inability on drivers' part to see relevant signs because of clutter then that doesn't really make sense in this context. There are signs saying M8 Cork at 4km, 2km, 1km and 500m from this junction and nothing else to distract the driver's attention from them.


Ah, the old trick of dreaming up a bunch of imaginary idiots and referring to them as quotation-mark surrounded "experts" to emphasise their supposed incompetence. I note your imaginary idiots are unable to think outside the box. I'm guessing they're also guilty of "tunnel vision", groupthink and public service laziness.


Nice of you to compliment munchkin_utd for his post. Of course his idea will not have been considered by any of those lazy, closeminded "experts" at the NRA

To be honest, niloc, the overall picture I'm getting from your posts is that the main problem with the M7/M8 diverge is, well... you. An implementation of munchkin_utd's suggestion would not have helped you as you weren't reading the signs anyway. Maybe that's because, as is apparent from your first post in this thread, you don't seem to see the point of road signs in the first place.

Definitely I was not paying full attention to the signage the day I nearly passed the exit to the M8, and I definitely won't be caught out a second time. I was just asking an open question whether the signage lacked impact of some kind as it has been reported that others have had a similar experience.

Regarding "I don't recall seeing such an arrangement (lane drop on a 2-lane road) anywhere else" I take it that you have also driven extensively in The UK, Denmark, Holland, Belgium, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Italy, France, Spain and Portugal. Perhaps like me that evening at the M7/M8 interchange you might have not have been paying full attention and missed such a feature.

As regards my OP it referred to grossly over specified signs being planted in place of existing signage which carried the same direction information and still in perfectly serviceable condition.

Regards the competence or otherwise of the NRA, all I can say is - motorways designed and built without rest areas - as an example

etchyed

niloc1951 wrote: »

Regards the competence or otherwise of the NRA, all I can say is - motorways designed and built without rest areas - as an example

Although I'm not up on the history of this, I've seen it stated here that the motorway network without service areas was down to political decision-making rather than the NRA.

niloc1951

etchyed wrote: »

Although I'm not up on the history of this, I've seen it stated here that the motorway network without service areas was down to political decision-making rather than the NRA.

Same excuse from lame administrators and QUANGO's why most stuff in this country is fcuked.

etchyed

niloc1951 wrote: »

Same excuse from lame administrators and QUANGO's why most stuff in this country is fcuked.

Really? Because it sounds perfectly plausible to me that Fianna Fáil would be afraid of putting businesses in towns along a route out of business for fear of losing votes. Also seems perfectly plausible that the PDs would've preferred services to be offered by the market.

Also your point doesn't really make sense when in a context of QUANGOs being accused of being unaccountable to politicians.

etchyed

niloc1951 wrote: »

As regards my OP it referred to grossly over specified signs being planted in place of existing signage which carried the same direction information and still in perfectly serviceable condition.

No it didn't. It didn't mention replacement of existing signs at all. In fact, you specifically stated that you didn't see the point of having any signs at all, an opinion torn to shreds by subsequent posts, none of which you've bothered to respond to.

Zoney

etchyed wrote: »

While I see the logic of your suggestion and I realise it's a compromise, I think that on balance it's a bad idea.

Unlike niloc, I don't recall seeing such an arrangement (lane drop on a 2-lane road) anywhere else. Lane discipline on Irish motorways is bad enough already without giving people the impression that they ever need to be in the overtaking lane to avoid an exit. With signs as far as 4km in advance it should be clear to motorists intending to exit that they need to get ready to exit by staying in the driving lane. And if they don't pay attention to signs for a turn-off exit what's to say they'll pay attention to signs for a lane drop exit?

Indeed - but what there should be is a lane-drop from a 3-lane carriageway.

I don't think we should have quite the crazy situation of the M2/M5 in NI, but I would say that for the M7/M9, M7/M8, M4/M6, M7/M20/N18, M11/M50, M1/M50 there should be an extra lane for about 2 km in advance of the split, with the extra lane being dropped to start the other motorway. This should also be used for the N21/M20 if it ever gets built.

niloc1951

etchyed wrote: »

Really? Because it sounds perfectly plausible to me that Fianna Fáil would be afraid of putting businesses in towns along a route out of business for fear of losing votes. Also seems perfectly plausible that the PDs would've preferred services to be offered by the market.

Also your point doesn't really make sense when in a context of QUANGOs being accused of being unaccountable to politicians.

I said 'rest areas' not 'service areas'.
Rest areas are a basic facility to enable drivers and their passengers to take a rest if feeling fatigued for safety reasons.
Typically a rest area comprised parking, maybe a few pick-nick tables and basic unattended toilet facilities.

Not to be confused with 'service areas'

etchyed

niloc1951 wrote: »

I said 'rest areas' not 'service areas'.
Rest areas are a basic facility to enable drivers and their passengers to take a rest if feeling fatigued for safety reasons.
Typically a rest area comprised parking, maybe a few pick-nick tables and basic unattended toilet facilities.

Not to be confused with 'service areas'

My bad. It's still a bit of a red herring though in this discussion about signs. My point about the "experts" was that it is tiresome to read you bashing anonymous staff of the NRA and assuming them all to be incompetent morons. It's very tabloid and takes away from valid points you may have. It would be better to point out what they do wrong than insult them, which, to be fair, you have done with the rest areas. I'll stop this back-and-forth now as it's kinda OT and I'd imagine not very interesting reading.

charlemont

tonc76 wrote: »

The gantry signs that are provided on motorways and dual carriageways are needed just as much as low level signage. I'm led to beileve that when the M7/M8 stretch of motorway was opened south of Portlaoise that the majority of phonecalls that the NRA received in the weeks after were from people that had missed the turn off for Cork! In order to do so you would have to drive past 2 verge mounted next exit signs, 3 portal gantries and a butterfly sign in the nosing at the split.

No amount of signage can compensate for the high level of idiots on our roads..

runway16

Anybody who misses that turn (M7/M8) has only themselves to blame because they were not paying attention at the time. Simple.

Stop trying to blame others for the fact that you somehow managed to miss the Huge Blue signs to your left and directly over your head.....

highlydebased

I notice on the M20 from about exit 5 inwards to Limerick there are new foundations for what I assume are the electronic signage cantilever gantries?

Amtmann

Neon-Circles wrote: »

I notice on the M20 from about exit 5 inwards to Limerick there are new foundations for what I assume are the electronic signage cantilever gantries?

Correct... they're on the M7 as well, plus the Watergrasshill, Cashel and Glanmire bypasses too. The NRA are investing quite heavily in signage at the moment.

rcdk1

Neon-Circles wrote: »

I notice on the M20 from about exit 5 inwards to Limerick there are new foundations for what I assume are the electronic signage cantilever gantries?

Tremelo wrote: »

Correct... they're on the M7 as well, plus the Watergrasshill, Cashel and Glanmire bypasses too. The NRA are investing quite heavily in signage at the moment.

They're also putting them up on the N22 Ballincollig Bypass. Apparently a nationwide initiative controlled from head office. Dunno about the electronic bit though. I would imagine the vast majority will be standard aluminium signs.

highlydebased

Well, there is two small yellow pipes emerging from them which looks like it could carry cabling. What messages they'd want to be displaying I'm not sure though.

munchkin_utd

Neon-Circles wrote: »

Well, there is two small yellow pipes emerging from them which looks like it could carry cabling. What messages they'd want to be displaying I'm not sure though.

on the ballincollig by pass it could warn of disruptions with the building of the flyovers when that gets underway on the south ring.

After the Monklands turnoff west from Athlone off the N6
I've just noticed that the Athlone - Ballinasloe R446 has just been renamed "R446 (old N6)" on the signs in the area.

Looks like the council have accepted that no one uses the "R" number!

Danno

On the old N8, the extended N77, they have signed Cork as the terminus with M8 patched on the signs southbound...

Surely if it is the alternative route to Cork, for L drivers etc... they should have R639 patched as opposed to the M8?
If not, why is Kilkenny City omitted, as it is the southbound terminus of the N77...

Strange logic it seems.

spacetweek

Deleted User wrote: »

After the Monklands turnoff west from Athlone off the N6
I've just noticed that the Athlone - Ballinasloe R446 has just been renamed "R446 (old N6)" on the signs in the area.

Looks like the council have accepted that no one uses the "R" number!

Yes - on the old N9 near Athy, the signage is listed as "(Old N9)". Not ideal but it's useful information to many people.

rcdk1

Neon-Circles wrote: »

Well, there is two small yellow pipes emerging from them which looks like it could carry cabling. What messages they'd want to be displaying I'm not sure though.

Could just be for lighting.