Ivan Yates - Celtic Bookmakers

Atilathehun

I see Celtic Bookmakers have gone belly up.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0104/breaking31.html

In his statement Mr Yates said of the collapse of his business "we didn't see it coming" and "I acknowledge that the rapid expansion of the group in a few years left it vulnerable in a downturn"

Makes me laugh in one sense. Right here we have yet another media personality in the TV3 / Newstalk stables, preaching down their noses to the politicians, the unions, private sector employers, etc as to how things should have been handled over the past number of years.
The media personalities I refer to are Vincent Browne, George Hook and now Ivan Yates.
What do they have in common. They are all failed business men in their own rights, and yet think nothing of telling everybody else how the country should be run, and how it should have been run :cool::cool: FFS:rolleyes:

snubbleste

I thought his statement was extremely sincere.
He has given personal guarantees to the banks including his mother's house. He has provided employment and attempted to turn the business around. Fair play to him.

30 firms went bust in Ireland every week last year.

finnegan2010

Whats Scary is with all the Money he has big house big government pensions. He is a smart guy... If HE cant keep a company afloat what chance have the smaller guys thats scary. And i thought this betting lark was a money spinner????????

In any event I think he is great on newstalk and wish him the best and hope it all works out

drunkmonkey

He was a successfull business man and probably will be again. I admire anyone who put there balls in their hands and tries to make a go of it and create some jobs.
It can't be easy to let all your staff go, he must be heartbroken.

He became famous for being a good business man and a political not the other way round.

How many jobs did you create ever?

Atilathehun

snubbleste wrote: »

I thought his statement was extremely sincere.
He has given personal guarantees to the banks including his mother's house. He has provided employment and attempted to turn the business around. Fair play to him.

30 firms went bust in Ireland every week last year.

Doesn't disguise the fact that greed represented by rapid and unsustainable expansion, was a big factor in the collapse. He is every morning pontificating abut the self same greed and hubris in the banking and property secors which have brought us to where we are now.

Double standards in the media.

snubbleste

Atilathehun wrote: »

Doesn't disguise the fact that greed represented by rapid and unsustainable expansion, was a big factor in the collapse. He is every morning pontificating abut the self same greed and hubris in the banking and property secors which have brought us to where we are now.
Double standards in the media.

Simple fact is that rents are high, fierce competition from online outlets, disposable income is down.
He could have wound down the business 3 years ago when he noticed a downturn but decided to preservere. It's good to take risks.

Atilathehun

drunkmonkey wrote: »

He was a successfull business man and probably will be again. I admire anyone who put there balls in their hands and tries to make a go of it and create some jobs.
It can't be easy to let all your staff go, he must be heartbroken.

He became famous for being a good business man and a political not the other way round.

How many jobs did you create ever?

My point is simply about big media personalities, preaching how business should be done and how it should have been done, BUT, at the same time failing in their own businesses! That's all.
They have some neck, in my opinion to pick over the business failings of others, whilst failing themselves in business.
Like the late Gerry Ryan preaching about the dangers of drugs, and ........ you know the rest.
Double standards.

finnegan2010

Hmmm I cant wait to see how the "Hookie Monster" tackles this story later on Newstalk....
Will he be asking the hard questions?

MidlandsM

In fairness to hook, I've never heard him TELL anybody on how to run the country.

Atilathehun

MidlandsM wrote: »

In fairness to hook, I've never heard him TELL anybody on how to run the country.

He tells everybody how to do their business ,.......... INCLUDING, ........ Declan Kidney:eek: He knows everything about business and rugby ........ but he failed at both:D

Tough business, there are betting offices everywhere nowadays and many of them are loss making. If the statement in the article is factual and correct it seems he did all he could and is now in severe financial difficulty.

finnegan2010

Hmm i was allways wondering why Yates needed the newstalk gig !!!!! so in fairness he defo needs the gig now, unlike that hungry fecker hook. He would sell the lovely Ingrid if there was some "Moneyyyyhhhhhhhhh" in it

danbohan

Atilathehun wrote: »

Doesn't disguise the fact that greed represented by rapid and unsustainable expansion, was a big factor in the collapse. He is every morning pontificating abut the self same greed and hubris in the banking and property secors which have brought us to where we are now.

Double standards in the media.

he tried he failed so what , as you were asked earlier how many jobs have you ever created , until you have tried something dont laugh at somebody like ivan yates etc who have and have failed . it makes you seem very public servant type

Dodge

danbohan wrote: »

it makes you seem very public servant type

How the hell did you come to that conclusion? :rolleyes:

Atilathehun

danbohan wrote: »

he tried he failed so what , as you were asked earlier how many jobs have you ever created , until you have tried something dont laugh at somebody like ivan yates etc who have and have failed . it makes you seem very public servant type

You miss my point. I admire Mr Yates for his tried and failed approach. I don't understand how he can have the credibility to come on air and pick holes in say Bernard McNamara's failures for example. McNamara and his ilk flew to high too fast and suffered the consequences.
Yates and his media mates picked over the bones of those failures with complete gusto. Rightly so on one level.
But one bunch of failures telling another bunch of failures how to do business, in my mind is a bit Irish.

danbohan

Dodge wrote: »

How the hell did you come to that conclusion? :rolleyes:

i have d nose for dm darling , i can be smelling them , i can

Atilathehun

danbohan wrote: »

he tried he failed so what , as you were asked earlier how many jobs have you ever created , until you have tried something dont laugh at somebody like ivan yates etc who have and have failed . it makes you seem very public servant type

I created one job. I'm self employed. Have been for 22 years. Regularly hire in help when I can't cope myself in a given job.
I'm a regular listener to Yates, and always think he does a good show. Never afraid to ask the hard question on air, and make salient commentary on all the wreckless carry on in business, banking and public life over the past number of years.
Now hearing the news about himself today ............... well to be honest, I feel like the kettle has been shouting black arse to the pot:cool:

danbohan

Atilathehun wrote: »

You miss my point. I admire Mr Yates for his tried and failed approach. I don't understand how he can have the credibility to come on air and pick holes in say Bernard McNamara's failures for example. McNamara and his ilk flew to high too fast and suffered the consequences.
Yates and his media mates picked over the bones of those failures with complete gusto. Rightly so on one level.
But one bunch of failures telling another bunch of failures how to do business, in my mind is a bit Irish.

in my mind is a bit Irish.[/QUOTE]

you have a point
another typical irish thing is laughing at the ones that fail , compare the attitude here to USA

Paulzx

danbohan wrote: »

. it makes you seem very public servant type

For the love of God:rolleyes:

zig

Dodge wrote: »

How the hell did you come to that conclusion? :rolleyes:

Paulzx wrote: »

For the love of God:rolleyes:

jesus I wish theyd ban those rolley eyes,

anyway, just listened to the interview, I have to say I havent heard such an honest straight forward one in a while, he seems to be taking full responsibility for the failures and consequences, I know he has no choice but at least he is up front about the whole situation.
Ironic that he set up a bookies (which in theory is the only winner in gambling), yet he seems to have gambled everything hes got on it and lost.

jmayo

Atilathehun wrote: »

He tells everybody how to do their business ,.......... INCLUDING, ........ Declan Kidney:eek: He knows everything about business and rugby ........ but he failed at both:D

Please enlight us ?

Atilathehun wrote: »

You miss my point. I admire Mr Yates for his tried and failed approach. I don't understand how he can have the credibility to come on air and pick holes in say Bernard McNamara's failures for example. McNamara and his ilk flew to high too fast and suffered the consequences.
Yates and his media mates picked over the bones of those failures with complete gusto. Rightly so on one level.
But one bunch of failures telling another bunch of failures how to do business, in my mind is a bit Irish.

You claim he has no right to pick holes in mcnamara's business plan so lets look at how similar they are.

mcnamara engaged in wreckless borrowing based on a completely bubble industry continuing as it had for the preceeding years.
mcnamara together with his political and banking buddies subverted a state owned quangoe into becoming a developer leaving the taxpayer with the attached risk (this was done long before NAMA ever came into being).
mcnamara's near 1 billion euro of gambles are not being covered by us the taxpayers.

Now can you please tell us how Yates has made the Irish taxpayer responsible for his gambles which I bet come nowhere near those of mcnamara ?

Dodge

jmayo wrote: »

Now can you please tell us how Yates has made the Irish taxpayer responsible for his gambles which I bet come nowhere near those of mcnamara ?

I'd argue that his ministerial pension allowed him the freedom of being slightly more aggressive than he would've been if he need Celtic to survive.

Obviously no where on the scale of McNamara

Rubik.

It is one thing to take risks with your own money, but to also risk your 78 year old mothers home - thats just irresponsible.

Atilathehun

jmayo wrote: »

Please enlight us ?



You claim he has no right to pick holes in mcnamara's business plan so lets look at how similar they are.

mcnamara engaged in wreckless borrowing based on a completely bubble industry continuing as it had for the preceeding years.
mcnamara together with his political and banking buddies subverted a state owned quangoe into becoming a developer leaving the taxpayer with the attached risk (this was done long before NAMA ever came into being).
mcnamara's near 1 billion euro of gambles are not being covered by us the taxpayers.

Now can you please tell us how Yates has made the Irish taxpayer responsible for his gambles which I bet come nowhere near those of mcnamara ?

Did I say something about the taxpayer being responsible for Yates's debt's. No I didn't!
I do however suggest that Yates got caught up in the hubris of the bubble and expanded his business at an unsustainable pace.
At the same time, he has taken strips out of other business people for making essentially the same mistake. That's my only point about Yates.

By the way, you are typing quicker than your brain can think! Read your blather about McNamara, and correct the statement about his gambles NOT, being covered by the tax payer.

Atilathehun

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atilathehun
He tells everybody how to do their business ,.......... INCLUDING, ........ Declan Kidney He knows everything about business and rugby ........ but he failed at both

Please enlight us ?


That comment was about the right honorable Mr G Hook ............ not Mr Yates.

Paulzx

zig wrote: »

jesus I wish theyd ban those rolley eyes,

.

Wrong forum. Try Feedback Forum

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Mongarra

Apart from his mother's house being vulnerable, I feel sorry for the 100 or so employees. The little I know of Ivan from a friend of a friend, he is sincere and I would think he is distressed about the job losses and the implications for his family. I know the latter would be at the forefront of any business failure but he would have thought long and hard about pulling the plug rather than just say 'to hell with it' and walk away.

MidlandsM

Atilathehun wrote: »

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atilathehun
He tells everybody how to do their business ,.......... INCLUDING, ........ Declan Kidney He knows everything about business and rugby ........ but he failed at both

Please enlight us ?


That comment was about the right honorable Mr G Hook ............ not Mr Yates.

but its still an erronious comment. You sir are talking bollox.:o

bamboozle

Atilathehun wrote: »

I see Celtic Bookmakers have gone belly up.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0104/breaking31.html

In his statement Mr Yates said of the collapse of his business "we didn't see it coming" and "I acknowledge that the rapid expansion of the group in a few years left it vulnerable in a downturn"

Makes me laugh in one sense. Right here we have yet another media personality in the TV3 / Newstalk stables, preaching down their noses to the politicians, the unions, private sector employers, etc as to how things should have been handled over the past number of years.
The media personalities I refer to are Vincent Browne, George Hook and now Ivan Yates.
What do they have in common. They are all failed business men in their own rights, and yet think nothing of telling everybody else how the country should be run, and how it should have been run :cool::cool: FFS:rolleyes:

give him a break, he like many thousands of business owners all around this country have suffered dreadfully at the hands of the 'upwards only' rental agreements in place in Ireland. so many business owners are cutting costs left right and centre yet they cannot touch one of their largest costs rent.

if we're to get out of this mess, we need entrepreneurs, not reckless property developers who have FF's ear, proper entrepreneurs who will set up companies, create employment and help grow the national economy and in turn state tax coffers.

drunkmonkey

Dodge wrote: »

I'd argue that his ministerial pension allowed him the freedom of being slightly more aggressive than he would've been if he need Celtic to survive.

I very much doubt it, his wage bill for celtic was probably 100,000 a week. A state pension is a blip in comparison.

delta_bravo

drunkmonkey wrote: »

He was a successfull business man and probably will be again. I admire anyone who put there balls in their hands and tries to make a go of it and create some jobs.
It can't be easy to let all your staff go, he must be heartbroken.

He became famous for being a good business man and a political not the other way round.

How many jobs did you create ever?

Plenty of failed developers and captains of industry have said similar things but definitely wouldn't get such levels of sympathy and praise for "taking the risk and having a go of it"

jmayo

Dodge wrote: »

I'd argue that his ministerial pension allowed him the freedom of being slightly more aggressive than he would've been if he need Celtic to survive.

Obviously no where on the scale of McNamara

Yates comes from a long line of enterprise minded generations if I recell correctly and I get the feeling he was destined to move out of the stifling world of politics and back into business anyway.
It does now make sense why he took the Newstalk gig.

Atilathehun wrote: »

Did I say something about the taxpayer being responsible for Yates's debt's. No I didn't!

No, but you compare Yates' business failing with mcnamara.
There is no comparison between the two because we all have been made liable for the losses incurred by mcnamara.

Atilathehun wrote: »

I do however suggest that Yates got caught up in the hubris of the bubble and expanded his business at an unsustainable pace.

Yes maybe he did expand too fast and maybe he probably thought that the growth would have continued.
Most businesses try and expand.
He got hit with both massive cuts in consumer spending and the huge advent of on-line gambling which has led to this, but did he offer a product that was way overpriced or had reached bubble proportions ?

Atilathehun wrote: »

At the same time, he has taken strips out of other business people for making essentially the same mistake. That's my only point about Yates.

Comparing someone expanding a chain of betting shops to someone borrowing crazy amounts to buy over valued sites, all based on cheap credit continuiing and a bubble housing market continuing is stretching it.
Then the fallout from this crazy borrowing is dumped on us the taxpayers.

Atilathehun wrote: »

By the way, you are typing quicker than your brain can think! Read your blather about McNamara, and correct the statement about his gambles NOT, being covered by the tax payer.

That was a misprint, it should have read NOW and I think most people could infer that without being condescending about it.

For some reason it appears you do not like Yates and the other presenters and it actually appears from your posts that it is they have been speaking the truth about people like mcnamara.

Looking at your posts I could even hazard a bet that Yates' failure may be giving you joy. :rolleyes:

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup

Did anyone hear him on the Last Word there with Cooper? Poor fecker nearly broke down in tears, he's too honest for this country.

The Dagda

I heard him The Last Word and while I applaud his candor and openess, I feel, a large part of Ivan's publicising of this unfortunate event is the desire to protect the Ivan Yates "brand" for his bourgeoning media career...

danbohan

The Dagda wrote: »

I heard him The Last Word and while I applaud his candor and openess, I feel, a large part of Ivan's publicising of this unfortunate event is the desire to protect the Ivan Yates "brand" for his bourgeoning media career...

maybe , or maybe your just too cynical ?, either ways guy is in deep s1ht so goodluck to him if he can rebuild a career /buisness , he will need to


one thing has not changed in ireland is the amount of begrudgers

Liam Byrne

Yates' business has failed, possibly through some over-stretching on his behalf, possibly because of the crap state of the economy.

I have sympathy for him - as I would with anyone whose business is in jeopardy for the above reasons - because it's his business and because we haven't been asked forced to take on his debts by mates of his in power.

Mind you, the irony of those comparing Yates with FF & Co is hilarious; Yates was open about the fact that his business involved gambling!

oppenheimer1

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Yates' business has failed, possibly through some over-stretching on his behalf, possibly because of the crap state of the economy.

I have sympathy for him - as I would with anyone whose business is in jeopardy for the above reasons - because it's his business and because we haven't been asked forced to take on his debts by mates of his in power.

Mind you, the irony of those comparing Yates with FF & Co is hilarious; Yates was open about the fact that his business involved gambling!

Actually we will be taking on his debts. Allied Irish Banks is the main creditor, and the one who called in the receiver, and if memory serves me correctly AIB is in the process of being fully nationalised. Monies not raised by the sale of assets will be bad debts for AIB - and the taxpayer.

Although a simplistic and high level approach to the reasons for failure, it was caused by optimism and expansion in a time the country was struggling financially. You could say he "carried on regardless" which is a term used to describe another group of businessmen.

Yes his business was based on gambling but Ivan didn't know he was gambling his business, which is an important distinction.

MidlandsM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Allied Irish Banks is the main creditor, and the one who called in the receiver,

incorrect, he was on the 6.1 tv news there and he said he called in the recievers.

Sulmac

Did anyone see him on the Six-One News?

He basically said that he takes full personal responsibility for the business' failure and can't blame anyone or anything else.

If only our current politicians were like him!

oppenheimer1

MidlandsM wrote: »

incorrect, he was on the 6.1 tv news there and he said he called in the recievers.

According to the Irish Times - from a statement issued from the directors this afternoon

"A statement from the directors confirmed AIB had appointed Neil Hughes of Hughes Blake accountants as receiver. The 47 betting shops are immediately being put up for sale as a going concern, either as individual units or as one lot." - Irish Times

I didn't see the 6.01 news so I can't comment if he contradicted his statement earlier.

paulaa

Mongarra wrote: »

Apart from his mother's house being vulnerable, I feel sorry for the 100 or so employees. The little I know of Ivan from a friend of a friend, he is sincere and I would think he is distressed about the job losses and the implications for his family. I know the latter would be at the forefront of any business failure but he would have thought long and hard about pulling the plug rather than just say 'to hell with it' and walk away.

He has over 200 employees. I agree with you. I've known Ivan for a long time and he is one of the straightest people I know. He took a chance and created a business, it failed.

Unlike the big developers and bankers who failed spectacularly, he is not hiding away or running off to Marbella or the US. He's open and above board about his problems and he's not asking the taxpayers to bail him out. I know he will be devastated about his staff too.

jimmycrackcorm

paulaa wrote: »

he's not asking the taxpayers to bail him out.

Unless he has the six million to repay the companys debt to AIb then yes the taxpayer will be on hook.

But sure what's six million compared to the billions bandied around....

HellFireClub

Atilathehun wrote: »

I see Celtic Bookmakers have gone belly up.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0104/breaking31.html

In his statement Mr Yates said of the collapse of his business "we didn't see it coming" and "I acknowledge that the rapid expansion of the group in a few years left it vulnerable in a downturn"

Makes me laugh in one sense. Right here we have yet another media personality in the TV3 / Newstalk stables, preaching down their noses to the politicians, the unions, private sector employers, etc as to how things should have been handled over the past number of years.
The media personalities I refer to are Vincent Browne, George Hook and now Ivan Yates.
What do they have in common. They are all failed business men in their own rights, and yet think nothing of telling everybody else how the country should be run, and how it should have been run :cool::cool: FFS:rolleyes:

Your post absolutely stinks of typical Irish begrudgery. The vast majority of people who end up running a successful business, have failed on at least one or two previous occasions. Show me a man who has not failed and I'll show you a man who has not lived. There is no shame in having tried and failed, that's why we have no job opportunities in Ireland, because we'd rather slag off and abuse those that have tried and failed, rather than recognise them as people who are inherently wired to give it another go and create jobs in the future.

Ivan Yates pointed at the real cause of the problem with his business, which was that he wasn't able to develop an on-line presence within the business, while his competitors such as Paddy Power, etc, all had that in place and gained market share without having to have a real estate presence in every town and village that he wanted to trade in.

Shame on you for knocking a decent man who had the guts to give it a go, we need more people like him in Ireland...

fulmer1984

just watched him on the news there a few minutes ago, got to give the guy credit for his honesty, took it on the chin, especially knowing full well that he could lose everything he ever worked for!

paulaa

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Unless he has the six million to repay the companys debt to AIb then yes the taxpayer will be on hook.

But sure what's six million compared to the billions bandied around....

He has 47 shops that should bring in a few bob to go towards his debt. He also gave a personal guarantee which includes his home. How many of those who owe Billions did that and have lost their homes ?

I suppose if he had been FF and owed billions he would be slapped on the back and maybe given a "digout"

The_Thing

It's nice to see someone paying the price for their gambles that didn't pay off.

HellFireClub

fulmer1984 wrote: »

just watched him on the news there a few minutes ago, got to give the guy credit for his honesty, took it on the chin, especially knowing full well that he could lose everything he ever worked for!

Another thing he mentioned is that back in I think it was 2007, he banked a profit of 4 million Euro, his bank manager said that using the standard multiplier of 8, his business on that basis had a market value of 32 million Euro and he could borrow half of that figure to pursue future growth.

I know one or two guys running their own businesses who were approached by their bank managers, (I admit I don't know who made the approach in this particular case of Ivan Yates), and got the same set of proposals extended to them, such was the pressure on bank managers to lend more to "out Anglo" Anglo. The usual Celtic Tiger banking language of, "look sure it's a no brainer", "We're pre-approved this whole thing for you, the money can be in your bank account by midnight", "we need to you sign a personal guarantee but it's only a formality", all these revolting cliches were wheeled out to pressure people into taking on business loans that business owners had never even sought!

You'd have to say that the issue of who is liable under these kind of circumstances is a debate that we really need to have in this country. At the very least, the bank that pushed this loan onto any lender should be co-responsible for the loss if it doesn't work out... After all, it was the bank that valued the business on a short term basis while extending the loan as a long term liability...

InchicoreDude

Never really liked celtic for some reason. Did they even have an online facility actually? Never heard of one person using it anyway! Wouldnt be surprised to see more of this happening with other bookies. I know that I never bet in betting shops anymore and do most of this at Betfair.

sollar

He mentioned the farce that is upward only rent reviews in his interview. He says he could not renegotiate his rents when the business got into trouble and he even had to pay 2 and half years rent on some of the shops he closed.

I hope he uses his position on newstalk now to bang on and on and on about this unfair set up.

oppenheimer1

sollar wrote: »

He mentioned the farce that is upward only rent reviews in his interview. He says he could not renegotiate his rents when the business got into trouble and he even had to pay 2 and half years rent on some of the shops he closed.

I hope he uses his position on newstalk now to bang on and on and on about this unfair set up.

I'm sure he knew about the upward only clause in the rental agreement when he signed the contracts. If he wasn't happy about it then he shouldn't have signed it. No point moaning about it after the fact.

HellFireClub

InchicoreDude wrote: »

Never really liked celtic for some reason. Did they even have an online facility actually? Never heard of one person using it anyway! Wouldnt be surprised to see more of this happening with other bookies. I know that I never bet in betting shops anymore and do most of this at Betfair.

No he admitted on Six One that the failure to deploy an on-line betting capability within the business was one of the reasons why not only the business failed but also was part of why a merger wasn't possible. You can see easily enough why the likes of Paddy Power would look at Celtic and see a business that was based on an "old school", model that required shops on main streets, etc, all having to be staffed, when Paddy Power had moved on to be a leader in a national market, all run from an office block somewhere, it allowed for completely different economies of scale than could be pushed out of a business like Celtic with high street outlets all over the country.

I've seen a few businesses fail for this reason, technology moves along very fast these days and some business owners first of all don't have the lifetime exposure to internet technology even comprehend the fact that they need to move fast to deploy new internet technology within the business, then when it finally dawns on them, they lack the ability to manage the introduction of the new technology platform into the business in a cost efficient way...