some Bloody farmers breaking laws

steddyeddy

I worked with different groups involved in conservation and animal welfare and have to say the attitude towards animal welfare in this country by some backward farmers is appaling.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1223/1224286166401.html

The fact that norway gave 77 sea eagles to ireland and 15 so far have been poisoned is an embarrassment to our country. There have been no convictions but there is an investigation in progress. Some of the kerry farmers were on the news and it was like watching reverse mensa! The farmers had to be reassured that the eagles wouldnt fly off with their sheep ffs.

Jose Jones

I don't mind the eagle's it's just that the farm takes up most of my day, and at night I just like a cup of tea.

mikom

Yeah, farmers the main stock rearers of the country are way worse than say travellers when it comes to animal welfare............. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056111263

steddyeddy

farmers are worse i was out on several calls for neglect you wouldnt believe. the sense of entitlement these people have beggers beleif. they hold a lot of power in this country so people are afraid to prosecute but norway and scotland are very p1ssed off with us. norway gave us 77 eagles ffs and we (by we i mean some retard farmers ) killed 15.

in fairness the travelers arent killing endangered species and p1ssing off our eurpean neighbours

af_thefragile

How the hell can this guy threaten a farm? Like how the hell could it in any way kill and take away a whole sheep?!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White-tailed_Eagle


Oh and Wikipedia doesn't seem to need any money anymore! Atleast that annoying banner will be gone now!

Jose Jones

i was wondering why they kept getting poisoned and who the **** was poisoning the poor ****ers and it's actually the farmers protecting the livestock.

surely they can't be killing that much of the livestock?

epgc3fyqirnbsx

some being the operative word

Being from the sticks I can tell you that any of the farmers I talk to, my aul mad included, would love to see such birds flying about. Mainly because of the fact that living in the country and working with animals can give you a love of nature.
I know a lot of people who are angry about the fact that you dont see many foxes or rabbits around here these days as a result of heavy hunting/lamping
I have never heard of a fox taking a lamb around here, hens ok but thats only if you're stupid enough not to lock them up at night and very few people have them now anyway

The general attitude is that it's nicer to see these animals than not see them. But of course, as in all areas, you do find some sacks

Mrmoe

steddyeddy wrote: »

I worked with different groups involved in conservation and animal welfare and have to say the attitude towards animal welfare in this country by some backward farmers is appaling.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1223/1224286166401.html

The fact that norway gave 77 sea eagles to ireland and 15 so far have been poisoned is an embarrassment to our country. There have been no convictions but there is an investigation in progress. Some of the kerry farmers were on the news and it was like watching reverse mensa! The farmers had to be reassured that the eagles wouldnt fly off with their sheep ffs.

Can you point me a to a link which shows that it was a farmer that did this or is it just idle speculation?

steddyeddy

af_thefragile wrote: »

How the hell can this guy threaten a farm? Like how the hell could it in any way kill and take away a whole sheep?!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White-tailed_Eagle


Oh and Wikipedia doesn't seem to need any money anymore! Atleast that annoying banner will be gone now!

the farmers (some) claim eagles carry off sheep.

steddyeddy

Alyssa Hundreds Coffeepot wrote: »

some being the operative word

Being from the sticks I can tell you that any of the farmers I talk to, my aul mad included, would love to see such birds flying about. Mainly because of the fact that living in the country and working with animals can give you a love of nature.
I know a lot of people who are angry about the fact that you dont see many foxes or rabbits around here these days as a result of heavy hunting/lamping
I have never heard of a fox taking a lamb around here, hens ok but thats only if you're stupid enough not to lock them up at night and very few people have them now anyway

The general attitude is that it's nicer to see these animals than not see them. But of course, as in all areas, you do find some sacks

some being very much the operative word im friends with farmers who are just as appalled at this as anyone (from the same area i might add)

steddyeddy

Mrmoe wrote: »

Can you point me a to a link which shows that it was a farmer that did this or is it just ideal specultion?

because the poion used, strychnine is the illegal poison used by farmers to kill foxs, ravens ect. Another issue by the way is what happens if a child touched the carcass laced with the poison.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0302/eagle.html

heres the farmers asociation saying the should have been warned that there was eagles in the area even though baiting itself is illegal

heres the said retards farmers protesting against the arrival of eagle chicks for fear they would attack sheep

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0219/eagle.html#video

steddyeddy

Mrmoe wrote: »

Can you point me a to a link which shows that it was a farmer that did this or is it just idle speculation?

Two young Red Kites, found dead in Co Wicklow, have tested positive for poison.
The birds, which were released last July as part of a project by the Golden Eagle Trust to reintroduce the species to Ireland, were discovered by members by the public.
Just over a month after the discovery of a poisoned eagle chick in Co Sligo, two more rare birds have been found poisoned in Wicklow.
One Red Kite was found on a road near Aughrim in Co Wicklow while a second was discovered floating in the sea, just off Wicklow Head.
The birds were released last July as part of a five year project run by the Golden Eagle Trust, to reintroduce Red Kites, which became extinct here two hundred years ago.
The Golden Eagle Trust says while survival rates of the kites to date have been high, this latest poisoning is a setback and a worry.

A spokesperson for the Wicklow Branch of the Irish Cattle and Sheep Association has called on farmers to be cautious putting out bait.

Happening all over the country

kowloon

Alyssa Hundreds Coffeepot wrote: »

I have never heard of a fox taking a lamb around here, hens ok but thats only if you're stupid enough not to lock them up at night and very few people have them now anyway

They will take hens in broad daylight, some are braver than others. I caught one walking around the pen in the middle of the day looking for a way in.

af_thefragile

kowloon wrote: »

They will take hens in broad daylight, some are braver than others. I caught one walking around the pen in the middle of the day looking for a way in.

Them Foxes gotta eat you know...

kowloon

af_thefragile wrote: »

Them Foxes gotta eat you know...

I'd feed the feckers sirloin every day if they'd just feck off and leave my hens alone.

Mrmoe

steddyeddy wrote: »

because the poion used, strychnine is the illegal poison used by farmers to kill foxs, ravens ect. Another issue by the way is what happens if a child touched the carcass laced with the poison.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0302/eagle.html

heres the farmers asociation saying the should have been warned that there was eagles in the area even though baiting itself is illegal

heres the said retards farmers protesting against the arrival of eagle chicks for fear they would attack sheep

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0219/eagle.html#video

Interesting alright. Did they ever publish the results of the post mortem analysis on the birds to confirm what the poison was? In the video they indicate that it is likely to be accidental so it might not necessarily be deliberate targetting. It be possible that they were posioned while scavenging on sheep carcasses. Here is a link about kite poisoning.

Likewise sheep-dip can cause problems for kites. Sheep that die shortly after dipping may still contain enough dip to kill any scavenging birds, including kites and buzzards, which feed on them. Spilt sheep dip can soak into the ground, contaminating earthworms and perhaps causing them to rise to the surface - any kite or other bird eating these worms would very probably die shortly afterwards.

http://www.gigrin.co.uk/threats_to_red_kites.html

Honestly, I would be surprised any farmer would do this. I haven't heard anything like occuring before although where I am from it is predominantly cattle rather than sheep. It is a SAC and I love seeing hen harriers and other animals such as foxes here.

Could it be possible that they were targetting badgers to prevent the spread of TB as there is usually controversy over the basis of badger culls in TB prevention.

maglite

af_thefragile wrote: »

Like how the hell could it in any way kill and take away a whole sheep?!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White-tailed_Eagle

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2218/1860660775_ba8722b52c.jpg
Not for the faint of heart, http://raptorpersecutionscotland.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/may-2002-posioned-sea-eagle-turnalt-farm.jpg
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/47060/0014566.pdf


Now I'm not saying I agree with the farmers, totally the opposite. But I can see one of those Eagles taking a lamb.... It's not too hard to imagine. I can also see why if a farmer thinks they will start killling the lambs they might object to the reintroduction.


They are big powerful birds.

af_thefragile

^Looks much smaller on wiki!
Like around 3' long and weights about 10lbs. It surely couldn't carry away a whole lamb. Could probably attack one though. But what are the shepherds doing. Like they could shoo it away if they see one trying to attack the flock. Or they could keep a dog to scare the bird away.

Like these guys in Africa are doing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnqiBEb9imw

grenache

steddyeddy wrote: »

farmers are worse i was out on several calls for neglect you wouldnt believe. the sense of entitlement these people have beggers beleif. they hold a lot of power in this country so people are afraid to prosecute but norway and scotland are very p1ssed off with us. norway gave us 77 eagles ffs and we (by we i mean some retard farmers ) killed 15.

Are you quite finished tarring every Irish farmer for the crimes of a small minority?

fontanalis

grenache wrote: »

Are you quite finished tarring every Irish farmer for the crimes of a small minority?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCeNROdfDIE

banquo

I could never understand why a small country like us encourages business models - farming - that take up so much horizontal space. Like, you can't even stack them the way you can offices. Don't we also massively subsidise this?

Seloth

Much of these subsidy are for the implementation of regulations set forth by the government.

For instance farms now have to have a new set container for animal waste,this container costs over 40k.

Over 46% of the EU budget goes into agriculture CAPS.So much so do people see the importance too these at the French presidents risked his relations with other EU states in order to defend their need!

I'm quite shocked at the way some people are acting towards Farmers here.Jesus you would honestly think by the way people assume here they go around poisoning and killing every little thing.

My father is a farmer and I can tell you he has contributed more to nature than most of you here.He converted a large amount of land into forested areas,Much of which hasn't seen a tree in over 300 years!He also uses bio fuels and supports various environmental causes.

The typical view that farmers are dimwitted smelling idiots is as about as accurate as the american view on the Irish.Farms themselves are for every fact a business now,with allot of science behind the works.

ejmaztec

Seloth wrote: »

Much of these subsidy are for the implementation of regulations set forth by the government.

For instance farms now have to have a new set container for animal waste,this container costs over 40k.

Over 46% of the EU budget goes into agriculture CAPS.So much so do people see the importance too these at the French presidents risked his relations with other EU states in order to defend their need!

I'm quite shocked at the way some people are acting towards Farmers here.Jesus you would honestly think by the way people assume here they go around poisoning and killing every little thing.

My father is a farmer and I can tell you he has contributed more to nature than most of you here.He converted a large amount of land into forested areas,Much of which hasn't seen a tree in over 300 years!He also uses bio fuels and supports various environmental causes.

The typical view that farmers are dimwitted smelling idiots is as about as accurate as the american view on the Irish.Farms themselves are for every fact a business now,with allot of science behind the works.

Most farmers are efficient agri-businessmen, and some are inbred semi-literate toothless cretins who are about 200 years behind the times. It's the latter who can't be trusted.

double GG

This was probably from meat bait left out to poison foxes

Sums it up.

No evidence, just speculation.

Logical Fallacy

There you go, video evidence trumps your mindless stereotyping.

An eagle can carry a lamb or small sheep.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjWjtNf3Fm0

foxinsox

kowloon wrote: »

I'd feed the feckers sirloin every day if they'd just feck off and leave my hens alone.

well done please...
garlic sauce on the side...

amacca

banquo wrote: »

I could never understand why a small country like us encourages business models - farming - that take up so much horizontal space. Like, you can't even stack them the way you can offices. Don't we also massively subsidise this?

this is a tongue in cheek joke right?.........sorry im a bit slow on the uptake.


hilarious, seriously hilarious.


I think I'll have to see if I can join "reverse mensa" op

fikay

If I were to accept, for the sake of argument, that a number of farmers in the areas where these birds are being re-introduced care little for the welfare of the animals, I would then have to ask do you think that in calling them ‘retards’ or ‘inbred semi-literate toothless cretins’ you are doing anything to help the cause of conservation?
The pdf in an earlier post outlines that in the case of Mull in Scotland evidence supports the belief that these birds (which I personally feel are magnificent creatures, and whose re-introduction I support) prey on young lambs. The report goes on to recommend the grounds on which compensation should be provided for stock lost to these highly efficient predators.
Being form an agricultural background I am appalled to think that these dirty farming practices, i.e. the laying of baited carcases take place. I know that where I’m from a dead animal of any kind left on the land would be frowned upon, but I accept the anecdotal evidence that it goes on. The eradication of these practices will take time and money, in order to communicate the importance of richer bio-diversity to those who are attempting to make a living in the areas. It also follows that enforcement of penalties (perhaps those directly involved in the conservation projects should be granted more power in relation to this) needs to be stronger for those who are slow to tow the line.
The suggestion that somebody who takes the quick and easy solution to solve their problem regardless of the effect it has on the interests of others is a retard is ridiculous though. People take shortcuts in all walks of life and disregard laws and regulations to get by. If we want this to work we need to engage all parties but many of the posts in this tread illustrate the difficulties emotive attitudes, misinformation, and a lack of understanding of the interests involved are counter-productive. This, I believe, is true on both sides of the argument.


EDIT: Just realised this is After Hours so rabble rabble, dey tuk ar jabs, yur ma, make me a sandwich bitch etc.

ScumLord

Maybe I'm just seeing some of the most backward old farmers but I'd say many of the older generation give off the impression they'd kill any wild animal that would even steal a worm off their land.

The younger lads aren't of the same mindset but seemed to be fighting against decades of seeing it done one way. I've seen a farmer that saw a badger on the road while driving run it over because "they spread TB".

I do know one lad that said one of their lambs was killed by foxes, he was really cut up about it too so I'm not accusing them of having no regard for animals it's just they're heavily biased towards their own animals and have no problem killing anything else that would threaten them.

kowloon

Sometimes large gangs of farmers bunch up together and pillage the land, killing and eating everything in their path.

If the Sea Eagles were released somewhere where the entire population didn't consist of farmers I'd say they would be in more trouble.

The gulls in the estate where I grew up used to get poisoned every year. Some of the gob$hites living there had the belief that gulls would peck out their childrens eyes. I remember seeing one noted eejit running around from one side of the road to the other trying to whack the gulls as they flew past.

Some people just have no respect for nature, in my experience these people are more common in urban areas.

mconigol

Have you ever seen or had to deal with the damage a simple crow can do to a sheep never mind an eagle??? I don't suppose most of you have.

Have you ever had to deal with animals that have been savaged by a dog? Covered in an animals blood who's just had it's neck tore open? Had to untangle an animal from the barbed wire it's ripped itself to pieces on while it was running terrified from some predator? Spend night after night awake out in a cold field protecting you're livestock? Spent weeks nursing a weak lamb for it to disappear as soon as it's put into a field. Doubt it....I could go on and on.

It must be great to live in this wishy washy fantasy land where it so easy to pontificate to people who have more knowledge & experience about animal welfare than you could ever possibly hope to have.

Try imagine the sheer terror and anger it must be for an animal to have its eyes ripped from your head and eaten while it's still alive. Then if it's lucky enough to be found in time, having to spend the rest of it's life completely blind.

I'm not in any way advocating the killing of endangered species but it's madness to say that it won't affect existing animals and peoples livelihoods when you have no direct experience of what you're talking about.

Why not reintroduce wolves and release a few bears while we're at it. The odd child might get taken but sure aren't they sure wonderful creatures it's worth it anyway. Over the top maybe but I could equally and validly apply all the same arguments in its favour.

fikay

kowloon wrote: »

Sometimes large gangs of farmers bunch up together and pillage the land, killing and eating everything in their path.

Not trying to be a smart arse but have you a source for this? Sounds like fantasy to me.

ejmaztec

mconigol wrote: »

Why not reintroduce wolves and release a few bears while we're at it.

Now we're talking sense, let's have a few hundred of these introduced into the country.

ejmaztec

fikay wrote: »

Not trying to be a smart arse but have you a source for this? Sounds like fantasy to me.

It happens everywhere, but the IFA pay the media to cover it up.

Oranage2

fikay wrote: »

Not trying to be a smart arse but have you a source for this? Sounds like fantasy to me.

I've seen it with my own 2 eyes thats why there aren't any trees left in Sligo, its a goverment cover-up

krudler

fikay wrote: »

Not trying to be a smart arse but have you a source for this? Sounds like fantasy to me.

Two of my uncles were eaten by rampaging farmers, its a pretty sensitive subject so dont call it fantasy please.

ejmaztec

..and they've been grabbing more than their fair share of road-salt, so that they can horde it for a frosty day. Pat the motorist fills a bucket with it and takes it away, and the farmer shows up with a trailer and fills the fecker up until the axle is about to give way. Greedy, greedy feckers.

Nodin

steddyeddy wrote: »

farmers are worse i was out on several calls for neglect you wouldnt believe. the sense of entitlement these people have beggers beleif. they hold a lot of power in this country so people are afraid to prosecute but norway and scotland are very p1ssed off with us. norway gave us 77 eagles ffs and we (by we i mean some retard farmers ) killed 15.

in fairness the travelers arent killing endangered species and p1ssing off our eurpean neighbours

It has to be said that its the practice of putting out poisoned bait thats the problem. This is not something that was introduced to deal with the birds. Personally, I'm suprised the issue wasn't tackled before the eagles were re-introduced.

Agricola

I know plenty of farmers and apart from a love of the country life, nature, and a good understanding of animals, one thing that most farmers Ive met have in common is a fairly uncompromising outlook when it comes to their livelihoods. This Eagle business is a case in point. In my experience anyone or anything that gets in the way of a farmer and his already unreliable income is going down to Chinatown!

ejmaztec

I'm going to introduce some Giant Condors, and there will be a prize for the first video footage of a farmer being whisked away by the arse of his pants into the sunset.

ScumLord

ejmaztec wrote: »

..and they've been grabbing more than their fair share of road-salt, so that they can horde it for a frosty day. Pat the motorist fills a bucket with it and takes it away, and the farmer shows up with a trailer and fills the fecker up until the axle is about to give way. Greedy, greedy feckers.

Then the bastards go out and spread it all over the roads the councils won't do.

ejmaztec

ScumLord wrote: »

Then the bastards go out and spread it all over the roads the councils won't do.

no, they put it in small packets and sell it to junkies in back alleys.:(

Wolf Club

kowloon wrote: »

Sometimes large gangs of farmers bunch up together and pillage the land, killing and eating everything in their path.

Even the cute wittle wabbits? :eek:

IMO farming is seriously taken for granted in this country. Many people seem to think it takes no intelligence to run a farm, and that it is an unneeded and unnecessary practice for thick mucksavages that only do it because they wouldn't be capable of doing anything else. These eagles may not be capable of carrying away an entire sheep, but I'd imagine they'd be able to kill a sheep/lamb and feast on the carcass, which would be a massive inconvenience for any farmer. Poisoning them is very wrong, there's no doubt about it, but from a farmer's point of view, this is about protecting their stock, not killing a bird for sport.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Alyssa Hundreds Coffeepot wrote: »

some being the operative word

Being from the sticks I can tell you that any of the farmers I talk to, my aul mad included, would love to see such birds flying about. Mainly because of the fact that living in the country and working with animals can give you a love of nature.
I know a lot of people who are angry about the fact that you dont see many foxes or rabbits around here these days as a result of heavy hunting/lamping
I have never heard of a fox taking a lamb around here, hens ok but thats only if you're stupid enough not to lock them up at night and very few people have them now anyway

The general attitude is that it's nicer to see these animals than not see them. But of course, as in all areas, you do find some sacks

Plenty of lambs taken every year down my way. Problem is we have very few hunters down here so the fox population is huge.

Fighting Irish

steddyeddy wrote: »

farmers are worse i was out on several calls for neglect you wouldnt believe. the sense of entitlement these people have beggers beleif. they hold a lot of power in this country so people are afraid to prosecute but norway and scotland are very p1ssed off with us. norway gave us 77 eagles ffs and we (by we i mean some retard farmers ) killed 15.

in fairness the travelers arent killing endangered species and p1ssing off our eurpean neighbours

I couldn't give a toss about some eagle but i do believe that all animals should be treated the same

fontanalis

How about re-introducing wolves? They should love that!

Jumpy

Seloth wrote: »

Much of these subsidy are for the implementation of regulations set forth by the government.

For instance farms now have to have a new set container for animal waste,this container costs over 40k.

Over 46% of the EU budget goes into agriculture CAPS.So much so do people see the importance too these at the French presidents risked his relations with other EU states in order to defend their need!

I'm quite shocked at the way some people are acting towards Farmers here.Jesus you would honestly think by the way people assume here they go around poisoning and killing every little thing.

My father is a farmer and I can tell you he has contributed more to nature than most of you here.He converted a large amount of land into forested areas,Much of which hasn't seen a tree in over 300 years!He also uses bio fuels and supports various environmental causes.

The typical view that farmers are dimwitted smelling idiots is as about as accurate as the american view on the Irish.Farms themselves are for every fact a business now,with allot of science behind the works.

But he feeds beefburgers to swans!

epgc3fyqirnbsx

Rodrigo Large Oasis wrote: »

Plenty of lambs taken every year down my way. Problem is we have very few hunters down here so the fox population is huge.

I accept that, just haven't seen it around here. But it is way over-hunted. On our loand I used to know where all the foxes dens are, now they're all empty.
If over population of foxes is a problem then it should be put under control I just hate to see it being over done like it is here

steddyeddy

Interesting alright. Did they ever publish the results of the post mortem analysis on the birds to confirm what the poison was? In the video they indicate that it is likely to be accidental so it might not necessarily be deliberate targetting. It be possible that they were posioned while scavenging on sheep carcasses. Here is a link about kite poisoning.

except in a very few cases I dont think they are being targeted however 15 have been killed by poison. Norway are pissed off at us as is Scotland.


http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0503/poisoning.html

the poisons used are all illegal carbofuran and strychnine

http://www.gigrin.co.uk/threats_to_red_kites.html

Honestly, I would be surprised any farmer would do this. I haven't heard anything like occuring before although where I am from it is predominantly cattle rather than sheep. It is a SAC and I love seeing hen harriers and other animals such as foxes here.

you love seeing them mate because your sensible, but some people arent, but the only people who bait are farmers and people with crops.

Could it be possible that they were targetting badgers to prevent the spread of TB as there is usually controversy over the basis of badger culls in TB prevention.

legal badger culling does not use illegal poisons.

steddyeddy

maglite wrote: »

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2218/1860660775_ba8722b52c.jpg
Not for the faint of heart, http://raptorpersecutionscotland.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/may-2002-posioned-sea-eagle-turnalt-farm.jpg
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/47060/0014566.pdf


Now I'm not saying I agree with the farmers, totally the opposite. But I can see one of those Eagles taking a lamb.... It's not too hard to imagine. I can also see why if a farmer thinks they will start killling the lambs they might object to the reintroduction.


They are big powerful birds.

in fairness if they object to a animal rare in ireland being re-introduced thats their problem. how would they act if the grey wolf got re-introduced

steddyeddy

grenache wrote: »

Are you quite finished tarring every Irish farmer for the crimes of a small minority?

actually man if you read a later post i saw some being very much the operative word