Blair V Hitchens On Now BBC 1

Badgermonkey · 02-01-2011 1:45am #1

Hitchens is such an impressive orator, dying of Oesophageal cancer, still talking though!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 02-01-2011 1:48am

Boxing forum --->

strobe · 02-01-2011 1:51am

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Boxing forum --->

More like the horror(sc) forum. No but it was a bit of a damp squib. You can almost see the strings. You can totally fukking see the strings. Which is probably a good thing. Watch for the quote mining by mister Blaire, and other slights of hand.

RichieC · 02-01-2011 2:16am

http://i.imgur.com/DaNxH.jpg

af_thefragile · 02-01-2011 2:25am

Don't like Hitchens. He's an arrogant self absorbed prick who think he knows everything and everyone else is a cretinous neanderthal.

*puts up flame barrier to keep pissed off Atheists away*

OutlawPete · 02-01-2011 2:27am

Sexy weatherman on my BBC1 now.

Sergeant · 02-01-2011 2:48am

Two smug and dislikeable men.

Pace2008 · 02-01-2011 2:49am

af_thefragile wrote: »

Don't like Hitchens. He's an arrogant self absorbed prick who think he knows everything and everyone else is a cretinous neanderthal.

Unlike the much-maligned Dawkins, I think Hitchens has deservedly earned his reputation as a bit of an arsehole.

I still can't deny that he's smrter than me, though.

Sergeant wrote: »

Two smug and dislikeable men.

They're both very able debaters though, which is what I tend to look for in a...debate.

Didn't catch it anyway, how'd it go?

K-9 · 02-01-2011 2:53am

Watched this on BBC News a couple of nights ago.

Hitchens makes Blair look reasonable which considering Blair is at the same old PR tricks, says it all.

scientific1982 · 02-01-2011 2:55am

I love Hitchens. He doesnt apologise for his views and hes right most of the time. Havent seen him come close to losing a debate yet.

Da Shins Kelly · 02-01-2011 3:00am

Say what you like about Hitchens' attitude, it can't really be denied that he's a very intelligent individual, and certainly knows how to make a point.

af_thefragile · 02-01-2011 3:03am

^I don't believe in what he says. He's just another arrogant atheist using the same rhetoric atheists use. What he's good at is insulting others to make them shut up.

He's just another Dawkins. Only Dawkins atleast has a science degree.

fergiesfolly · 02-01-2011 3:04am

In fairness to Blair, Hitchens had the easier argument and Blair made a fair punt of it.

Pace2008 · 02-01-2011 3:19am

af_thefragile wrote: »

^I don't believe in what he says. He's just another arrogant atheist using the same rhetoric atheists use. What he's good at is insulting others to make them shut up.

He's just another Dawkins. Only Dawkins atleast has a science degree.

They're both atheists, anti-theists I guess, but apart from that they're not really similar at all.

I think the image of Dawkins being a complete prick is pretty unjustified. What other people describe as arrogance I would call confidence and assertiveness, and to be honest, I think 90% of his detractors have at best listened to him for about 1 minute, max, with their opinions on him already solidified based on preconceptions. Of this group I'd say a fair chunk have never listened to him at all, and are just parroting what they've heard like-minded people say about him.

When it comes down to it, he's essentially implying that no one's going to get to have that cup of tea up in the sky with their granny when they die, and that's always going to get people's hackles up.

af_thefragile · 02-01-2011 3:27am

It is that confidence and assertiveness that comes off as arrogance. The topics they talk about (especially all the God/Religion issues), you can never be as confident about anything unless you're just arrogant. And that's exactly what people like Dawkins and Hitchens do. They speak as if what they're saying is fact which in truth is only their opinion.

Or maybe I don't enjoy listening to them because I differ from them on pretty much every subject.

Mrmoe · 02-01-2011 3:29am

af_thefragile wrote: »

^I don't believe in what he says. He's just another arrogant atheist using the same rhetoric atheists use. What he's good at is insulting others to make them shut up.

He's just another Dawkins. Only Dawkins atleast has a science degree.

You are correct in pointing out that the way Hitchens presents himself is in a very aggressive manner and that isn't usually the best way to win some one over to your side of an argument. However, no one can really dispute what he says or at least no one has come close to out debating him.

af_thefragile · 02-01-2011 3:31am

Mrmoe wrote: »

You are correct in pointing out that the way Hitchens presents himself is in a very aggressive manner and that isn't usually the best way to win some one over to your side of an argument. However, no one can really dispute what he says or at least no one has come close to out debating him.

I disagree with pretty much everything he says. Yet I'm never going to argue/debate with a person like him. Its just a waste of time. He's a brick wall. Every argument just bounces off him. He completely ignores what the other person is says and keep going on with his rhetoric.

Pace2008 · 02-01-2011 3:38am

af_thefragile wrote: »

It is that confidence and assertiveness that comes off as arrogance. The topics they talk about (especially all the God/Religion issues), you can never be as confident about anything unless you're just arrogant. And that's exactly what people like Dawkins and Hitchens do. They speak as if what they're saying is fact which in truth is only their opinion.

Well it seems you certainly haven't listened to him to any great extent, because this is actually something he frequently addresses. He admits himself that we cannot know as literal fact that there is no God, but just because we cannot be 100% sure (science doesn't work like that) doesn't mean that other possibilities are equally plausible. He specifically states that he is almost sure there is no God.

And it's not like he's just making this statement and expecting everyone to take him at his word. He's kinda made a career of qualifying his beliefs, or lack thereof, and rebutting the counter-arguments levelled against him.

Sea Sharp · 02-01-2011 3:38am

af_thefragile wrote: »

I disagree with pretty much everything he says. Yet I'm never going to argue/debate with a person like him. Its just a waste of time. He's a brick wall. Every argument just bounces off him. He completely ignores what the other person is says and keep going on with his rhetoric.

I suspect that the same thing could be said about you (and it being said would be more appropriate) if you're a theist.
The best argument a theist can come up with is:
"Leave, me alone. I'll believe what I want, it's my right."

KeithAFC · 02-01-2011 3:42am

Talk about such a boring debate. Tony Blair discussing religion. Lets ignore your decision making for the Iraq war and letting your religious morals in the way tony..

Sea Sharp · 02-01-2011 3:45am

KeithAFC wrote: »

Talk about such a boring debate. Tony Blair discussing religion. Lets ignore your decision making for the Iraq war and letting your religious morals in the way tony..

It's all relevant though.
He can just claim that God told him to start an illegal war and plead insanity.

Einhard · 02-01-2011 3:57am

af_thefragile wrote: »

It is that confidence and assertiveness that comes off as arrogance. The topics they talk about (especially all the God/Religion issues), you can never be as confident about anything unless you're just arrogant. And that's exactly what people like Dawkins and Hitchens do. They speak as if what they're saying is fact which in truth is only their opinion.

By that standard then, I take it you believe practically every single one of the world's billions of religious believers are arrogant?

af_thefragile · 02-01-2011 4:05am

Haha, I knew I would piss off a bunch of people by saying that about Hitchens.
Well, I'm in no mood for debating.

*checks flame shield is working fine*

Dave! · 02-01-2011 4:10am

af_thefragile wrote: »

Haha, I knew I would piss off a bunch of people by saying that about Hitchens.
Well, I'm in no mood for debating.

*checks flame shield is working fine*

Quick, flee before you're asked to justify your silly ramblings!

Einhard · 02-01-2011 4:11am

af_thefragile wrote: »

Haha, I knew I would piss off a bunch of people by saying that about Hitchens.
Well, I'm in no mood for debating.

*checks flame shield is working fine*

I'm not pissed off at all. Just pointing out that if Hitchens is an arrogant prick for confidently expressing a conviction, then surely believers could be accused of the same? I mean, the Pope speaks daily with great conviction about the existence of God, as do millions of priests and imams and rabbis. Why do you hold them to a different standard to Hitchens?

Ps: I think you doth protest too much about potential negative reaction. The only evidence of flaming I've seen so far is your multiple references to it.

partyndbs · 02-01-2011 4:13am

nobody cares about this loser ****

af_thefragile · 02-01-2011 4:14am

Einhard wrote: »

I'm not pissed off at all. Just pointing out that if Hitchens is an arrogant prick for confidently expressing a conviction, then surely believers could be accused of the same? I mean, the Pope speaks daily with great conviction about the existence of God, as do millions of priests and imams and rabbis. Why do you hold them to a different standard to Hitchens?

They don't do it in an insulting way to others like Hitchens and co.

And if I was to Justify my believes, I'ld be sitting here all night and all day for the rest of the week. That's something I really don't wanna do.

Pace2008 · 02-01-2011 4:15am

af_thefragile wrote: »

Haha, I knew I would piss off a bunch of people by saying that about Hitchens.

10 points to Griffindor.

I said I thought Hitchens came across as an arsehole.

They don't do it in an insulting way to others like Hitchens and co.

Showing irreverence for someone's beliefs is not the same as insulting them

Owen · 02-01-2011 4:15am

partyndbs wrote: »

nobody cares about this loser ****

You cared enough to register for boards and post this as your first post. Fail!

Einhard · 02-01-2011 4:17am

af_thefragile wrote: »

They don't do it in an insulting way to others like Hitchens and co.

And if I was to Justify my believes, I'ld be sitting here all night and all day for the rest of the week. That's something I really don't wanna do.

I'm not asking you to justify or even explain your religious beliefs. Just how you can equate an atheist who is confident in his beliefs as arrogant, whilst a believer in the same mould is just a believer.

Pace2008 · 02-01-2011 4:18am

partyndbs wrote: »

nobody cares about this loser ****

Are you the guy who thinks books are for losers and laughed at people who got high grades in school?

Mrmoe · 02-01-2011 4:29am

af_thefragile wrote: »

They don't do it in an insulting way to others like Hitchens and co.

If they don't call their current approach insulting then I would hate to see them if they were actaully trying:eek:

"Even in our own lifetimes we can recall how Britain and her leaders stood against a Nazi tyranny that wished to eradicate God from society and denied our common humanity to many, especially the Jews, who were thought unfit to live. "As we reflect on the sobering lessons of atheist extremism of the 20th century, let us never forget how the exclusion of God, religion and virtue from public life leads ultimately to a truncated vision of man and of society and thus a reductive vision of a person and his destiny."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11332515

Badgermonkey · 02-01-2011 6:10pm

I would say Hitchens is mightily self assured, not arrogant.

Perhaps the plummy accent, a short fuse and combative style are easily misconstrued.

ChopShop · 02-01-2011 6:37pm

There are Atheists who are quite happy to keep what they believe to themselves

Some might go as far as saying Hitchens and Dawkins are ANTI-theists.

It suits elements of the media to portray every Atheist as wanting to attack organised religion at every turn.

Such coverage gets people riled up, it can be discussed over and over again because it will never be concluded, and thus is guaranteed to sell advertising space.

.

KeithAFC · 02-01-2011 6:47pm

Dawkins must have made a lot of money out of religion.

RichieC · 02-01-2011 6:54pm

wernstrom! wrote: »

There are Atheists who are quite happy to keep what they believe to themselves

Atheism is not a belief. no more than bald is a hair colour. (I'm docking myself -1 for using that well beaten Cliché)

Carl Sagan · 02-01-2011 7:00pm

I heard this before (assuming it's not a new one) and didn't think it was great really.

Badgermonkey · 02-01-2011 7:03pm

wernstrom! wrote: »

There are Atheists who are quite happy to keep what they believe to themselves

Some might go as far as saying Hitchens and Dawkins are ANTI-theists.

It suits elements of the media to portray every Atheist as wanting to attack organised religion at every turn.

Such coverage gets people riled up, it can be discussed over and over again because it will never be concluded, and thus is guaranteed to sell advertising space.

.

Not sure science v religion is advertising gold to be honest.

On the basis that sex sells, neither Hitchens or Jesus quite fit the bill.

wes · 02-01-2011 7:12pm

Both being pretty unapologetic for there support of the Iraq war makes both Hitchens and Blair arrogant imho. However, in the case of Blair, seeing as he was directly involved in the war, he would be a war criminal, as well as being arrogant. Personally, there both incredibly unpleasant people, who can't admit that they were wrong.

However, I do love how both managed to support the war, one from a secular pov, and the other from a Religious pov, showing that whether you believe in a God/Gods etc or not, you can still be bloody war mongering idiot.

Badgermonkey · 02-01-2011 8:01pm

KeithAFC wrote: »

Dawkins must have made a lot of money out of religion.

Not quite as much as religious organisations

Why does the vatican need an art collection?

Sell it and go amongst the poor and downtrodden with alms

Chardee MacDennis · 02-01-2011 8:17pm

af_thefragile wrote: »

They don't do it in an insulting way to others like Hitchens and co.

And if I was to Justify my believes, I'ld be sitting here all night and all day for the rest of the week. That's something I really don't wanna do.

http://i.imgur.com/8xL1A.jpg

partyatmygaff · 02-01-2011 8:27pm

Not ANOTHER one of these threads again.

There's at least one per month and they all end up the same way.

1. Militant atheists barge in with their usual rhetoric and at times arrogance
2. Theists come to defend (With varied points and little to no arrogance)
3. Militant atheists ridicule theists' posts and either repeat their previous points ad nauseum or make :rolleyes: posts.
4. Theists continue to defend their beliefs
5. Newcomers come in after 40 pages and manage to derail the thread
6. Somehow it descends in to chaos
7. Locked by a mod
8. Wait 3-4 weeks
9. New thread

People should leave religion to the religion forums.

CrazyBiscuit · 02-01-2011 8:29pm

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Not ANOTHER one of these threads again.

There's at least one per month and they all end up the same way.

1. Militant atheists barge in with their usual rhetoric and at times arrogance
2. Theists come to defend (With varied points and little to no arrogance)
3. Militant atheists ridicule theists' posts and either repeat their previous points ad nauseum or make :rolleyes: posts.
4. Theists continue to defend their beliefs
5. Newcomers come in after 40 pages and manage to derail the thread
6. Somehow it descends in to chaos
7. Locked my mods
8. Wait 3-4 weeks
9. New thread

People should leave religion to the religion forums.

Oh yes because respectful atheists and arrogant theists never join in.
/sarcasm

partyatmygaff · 02-01-2011 8:34pm

CrazyBiscuit wrote: »

Oh yes because respectful atheists and arrogant theists never join in.
/sarcasm

I've seen respectful atheists, i've never seen arrogant theists however and i've seen a LOT of these threads in AH.

scientific1982 · 02-01-2011 8:34pm

I rarely see arrogant atheists on these threads. Having a difference of opinion on religion is now considered arrogant by some people.

Badgermonkey · 02-01-2011 8:35pm

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Not ANOTHER one of these threads again.

I'm sure you're tired posting your exasperation on each and every one also.:D

Chardee MacDennis · 02-01-2011 8:40pm

scientific1982 wrote: »

I rarely see arrogant atheists on these threads. Having a difference of opinion on religion is now considered arrogant by some people.

considering religion is pushed in my face every single day in some aspect i dont see the problem in pushing back...

Dave! · 02-01-2011 8:43pm

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Not ANOTHER one of these threads again.

There's at least one per month and they all end up the same way.

1. Militant atheists barge in with their usual rhetoric and at times arrogance
2. Theists come to defend (With varied points and little to no arrogance)
3. Militant atheists ridicule theists' posts and either repeat their previous points ad nauseum or make :rolleyes: posts.
4. Theists continue to defend their beliefs
5. Newcomers come in after 40 pages and manage to derail the thread
6. Somehow it descends in to chaos
7. Locked by a mod
8. Wait 3-4 weeks
9. New thread

People should leave religion to the religion forums.

Very arrogant post IMO

partyatmygaff · 02-01-2011 8:47pm

Dave! wrote: »

Very arrogant post IMO

Arrogant?

Princeton Dictionary wrote:

Arrogance - Overbearing pride evidenced by a superior manner toward inferiors

I don't see how outlining the typical scenario that occurs within these kind of threads is in any way arrogant.

Badgermonkey · 02-01-2011 8:50pm

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Arrogant?

I don't see how outlining the typical scenario that occurs within these kind of threads is in any way arrogant.

Post # 2:D

Dave! · 02-01-2011 8:51pm

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Arrogant?

I don't see how outlining the typical scenario that occurs within these kind of threads is in any way arrogant.

Another one, you're relentless you know that?

Blair V Hitchens On Now BBC 1

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