Plenty of water, none of it hot

Boysey

Hi,

We arrived back home after being away for 10 days and noticed our oil fired central heating was no longer heating our hot water tank. We'd left the heating coming on for an hour in the morning and evening while we were away.

A plumber dropped out this morning and checked over everything and said there were no problems, that it was down to the water restrictions in place. He said if we waited for our tanks to fill and put the heating on the water would heat. I'm pretty sure the tanks would've been full when we arrived back but anyway...

The tanks in the Attic are now full, we've water coming from both Hot and Cold taps but the water isn't heating. The heating pipe (connected to the right of the hot water tank) is hot but it seems to be having no affect on the water temperature.

Any thoughts or advice? I'm not sure how quickly I can get the plumber back out...

Thanks
James

Sparkpea

please take a pic of the pipework around your hot tank and also is your system open vented or sealed?

Boysey

I'm out and about at the moment, will post the additional detail as soon as I can. It's very strange though, water comes from the hot taps, but it's cold... And the central heating pipe connected to the tank is hot to touch.

I checked the small base tank in the attic earlier and it was full (I'm not sure if that answers the sealed system question? Sorry, am a bit of a plumbing noob).

Thanks for responding,
James

Sparkpea

it means ur system is likely open vented (if a pipe hangs into it)

theres 2 heating pipes to your hot tank a flow and return, the flow may get hot but the return wont get warm/hot until the tank starts to heat the water inside it. the return pipe could be blocked

Boysey

OK, so the situation has changed a little, we're now getting no water out of the hot taps.

The tank in the Attic is full, but constantly filling (not overflowing). It's like there's a constant drain on it but I'm not sure from what (as there's nothing on / running). There's also a gurgling / rattling from the pipes in the Hot Press (makes sleeping a bit awkard!).

I've attached two photos of the Hot Tank... Not great quality as I had to use a Torch for a flash.

The left side shows three pipes, the middle one connects to the top of the Hot Tank and runs back up to the Tank in the Attic, and downwards - is this an Overflow? The right pipe runs in to the base of the Hot Tank at the back. The Right Pipe runs in to the ground so I'm assuming it's not connected.

The right side has two pipes, the upper one being the pipe from the Heating I thing (as it heats when the heating is on). The lower I'm assuming is for water to exit the Tank?

Not sure if any of this helps, waiting on word back from the plumber, not sure when he can get back to us so fixing it ourselves would be great!

Thanks
James

Sparkpea

ok without even looking at the pics I can tell you whats what

left side

pipe in the middle that connects to the top of the tank is the 'draw off', this is where the hot water comes out of, the top of the tee is the expansion and hangs over the top of the storage tank, the bottom of the tee is the feed to your bath taps, basin, sink etc.

the right pipe that goes into the bottom of the tank is the cold feed for the hot water, this comes from the bottom of your storage tank in your attic

the pipe that goes straight into the ground is likely the cold, this also comes from tank in attic and it feeds the cold to your bath, basin and toilets probably.

right pic

top pipe going into the cylinder is the flow for the heating, its coming out of a tee which the top is the expansion pipe which should hang over the small tank in the loft, bottom of the tee is just a feed pipe that comes from the boiler

bottom pipe is the return from the heating, this wont get hot hot until you've a tank full of hot water but it should warm up once the heating is on a while. it has a balancing valve on it, close it full (clockwise) then open it full (anticlock wise) counting how many turns it takes to open it,then close it half way so e.g. if its 12 turns fully open, turn it back approx 6 turns. the top of the tee is the cold feed for the heating system (15mm pipe) which comes out of the bottom of the small tank in the attic, the bottom of the tee is the return back to the boiler.

Boysey

Thanks Sparkpea - I did as you suggested although I had to start going anti-clockwise, then clockwise, then half the turns back.

I've given it about half an hour, still nothing from the hot tap upstairs... Some water from the hot tap downstairs (although the pipes do make some awful noises) - I didn't leave it running for a prolonged period of time however.

I can still hear water running and the attic tank is still constantly topping up.

Any other thoughts? Thanks for the responses so far btw
James

Buford T Justice

Sounds like the balancing valve was closed.

As for the constant drain, are any of the cisterns constantly drawing water and overflowing into the pan? If its not that, then its possible it could be a leak.

Sparkpea

ok so just to check where I am with this

you've water coming out of the hot and cold taps but the hot water is not hot since u arrived home and there is water above the connections in both tanks in the attic - the flow pipe going into the cylinder is getting hot - correct?

after having the heating on for 1 hour is the return pipe (the one with the valve on it) from the cylinder hot, warm, look warm or cold?

if you feel the top of the hot water cylinder is it cold/hot/warm? if the latter, how far down would you say that it is warm?

do you have an immersion heater? if yes is it external (small copper like tube that instantly heats your water) if it is external please post pic of the pipework.

also if you have an immersion heater and you turn it on do you get hot water?

have to ask these questions to try limit what the problem could be..

Sparkpea

Fingers McGee wrote: »

Sounds like the balancing valve was closed.

As for the constant drain, are any of the cisterns constantly drawing water and overflowing into the pan? If its not that, then its possible it could be a leak.

indeed

*wonders who touched the valve*

Boysey

Nope sorry, we did originally have (cold) water coming from the hot tap but that has since stopped. It seemed like the Kitchen hot tap was working but with very little water and some terrible noises coming from the pipes. I haven't run this for more than a few seconds.

Tanks in the attic are both full, no trouble with our Cold supply.

Originally the tank was covered in condensation - now it's not but the cold feed pipe in to the tank is coated in condensation.

With the heating on no part of the tank heats up, just the flow pipe going in. I've switched the imersion on (internal I believe) but it's had no effect.

I've checked the two cisterns for a constant drain and they're fine... And as for the valve, I only started playing with things after the plumber left, maybe he forgot to turn it back on?

Thanks
James

Buford T Justice

You've no water in the hot tap now? Then you have an airlock which you will need to blow back if possible. Search this forum for the steps, there are loads of threads on it. See where that takes you then.

Boysey

OK, bit of an update. Plumber has been and gone again - He thinks it's the vavle on the return from the heating. In saying that, it's hot and so is the feed from the heating, so it would appear water is going through it.

Have had the heating on for a while now (longer than would normally be required to heat the water). Popped the imersion on for good measure. The very top of the cylinder is warmish but the rest is still cold. I'll give it another while I suppose.

Thanks
James

Boysey

Could be a red herring, and am probably showing my plumbing naievety but our Washing Machine broke the other night as well (wouldn't drain). There's no way it could be constantly taking water from the Hot Tank? I've since drained it and it's not filling with water.

I'm just wondering why the tank is constantly going in the attic - Plumber suggested it was the water restrictions rather that something draining it (he checked the toilets too).

Sparkpea

not sure what to advise now, I'd say fingers is correct that you have an airlock in the hot tank which is why you're not getting water. I'd also say u must have an airlock in the heating system at the coil that heats the hot water or the gate valve is not operating correctly allowing the flow through, like the jumper is stuck.

saying that I've probably went as far as I can with this thread - its one of them jobs that you really need to be on the job testing all your ideas and theories yourself to try figure out what the heck is going on. good luck with it

Boysey

Thanks Guys. The situation has gotten weirder (maybe worse). I disconnected the washing machine just to eliminate it (it had hot and cold inputs). About 30 minutes later I noticed the tank in the Attic had stopped it's constantly filling routine - Result, or so I thought!

The Council has cut the water supply which stopped the tank filling - It completley drained within appoximately 30 minutes of me noticing the pressure had dropped and without us doing anything - No upstairs tap usage, no toilets flushed.

With that I'm guessing we've a leak somewhere?

And the weird / bizarre part - The Hot Tank is actually heating up, although upstairs we get no water from the Hot Taps, but water from the Cold Taps. With my attic tank being empty it looks like the Hot Water Tank Water is now coming out of the Cold Tap.

I give up! Will see what happens tomorrow when the water comes back

Thanks again for your help and advice,
James

Zab

Just a thought but if you had a leak after your hot water cylinder if might appear that no water was being heated because it was being drawn out before it gets a chance to get hot.

Boysey

For info, all sorted... New Plumber mended a leak this morning. There was a leak in the hot feed to the Kitchen Sink down behind some cabinets. It was situated near an overflow / drain type thing so the water had been running off rather than running in to the house.

Thanks to everyone who tried to help,
James