20 Rep Max Sets

Rycn

Is it possible to move up in weight on a weekly basis doing 20 Rep Max sets?

Is there enough resistance to trigger an increase in strength?

d'Oracle

A forum search might help you here.
I seem to remember this coming up recently, but be prepared to sift through a big argybargy.

Brian?

Yes. But it's not the best way to get stronger, so why do it?

Rycn

briankeating wrote: »

Yes. But it's not the best way to get stronger, so why do it?

I've worked up to a weight strengthwise that i'm happy with at the moment but want to go up to 20 rep max sets and work on muscle fitness and endurance, i'll be working my 20 rm up to what my 5rm is now at.

Anyone ideas on what weight increments I should be using to increase?

Hanley

And here.... we..... go.

Even tho I'm going to get murdered for this later, I still like 20 rep squats.

Rycn

Rycn wrote: »

I've worked up to a weight strengthwise that i'm happy with at the moment but want to go up to 20 rep max sets and work on muscle fitness and endurance, i'll be working my 20 rm up to what my 5rm is now at.

Anyone ideas on what weight increments I should be using to increase?

And after that i'll be working on speed

Rycn

d'Oracle wrote: »

A forum search might help you here.
I seem to remember this coming up recently, but be prepared to sift through a big argybargy.

No luck

Hanley

Rycn wrote: »

And after that i'll be working on speed

Would it not make more sense to work on absolute strength after a period with 20 rep squats before moving on to speed strength?

Rycn

Hanley wrote: »

Would it not make more sense to work on absolute strength after a period with 20 rep squats before moving on to speed strength?

Don't know what you mean?

I've done the strength to where i'm happy, i'm going to drop down to do 20rm sets now and slowly increase to where my 5rm is atm. After that i'll just work on the speed of the 20rm sets. Is that what you meant?

Brian?

Hanley wrote: »

And here.... we..... go.

Even tho I'm going to get murdered for this later, I still like 20 rep squats.

I thought 20 rep squats worked because they're done with your 10 rep max with rests in there.

Maybe the original question needs to be clearer. Doing 20 reps for all excercises is just not a good idea.

OMCCABE

If you are working at your 20 rep max then your going to be mostly developing low level muscular endurance due to the low % load. If however your working with a 10-12 rep max with breathing breaks between reps then you will be training completely different qualities.


Am I right in saying that by speed you mean the time it takes you to complete a 20rep set with a 5rm load on your back without reracking the bar?


Also can you post a video of said set for my amusement

Oisin

Rycn

briankeating wrote: »

Doing 20 reps for all excercises is just not a good idea.

Why is that then?

The strength isn't my main goal, fitness is. If I can increase weight regularly it won't make a difference to me, i'm just curious about, theres little info on the net about it as far as I can see.

briankeating wrote: »

Maybe the original question needs to be clearer.

Can I increase weight regularly doing 20RM sets instead of 5RM sets, and if so what incements should I use and when?

Rycn

OMCCABE wrote: »

Am I right in saying that by speed you mean the time it takes you to complete a 20rep set with a 5rm load on your back without reracking the bar?

Haha no not at all.

For example just say i've gotten my squat to 120kg x 5 (i haven't in reality).

Now if I drop the weight to 80kg x 20 and plan to aim for 120 x 20 how do I go about increasing the load over time?

dave80

Rycn wrote: »

Haha no not at all.

For example just say i've gotten my squat to 120kg x 5 (i haven't in reality).

Now if I drop the weight to 80kg x 20 and plan to aim for 120 x 20 how do I go about increasing the load over time?

just add 2.5kg every workout and see how you get on....

Inspector Coptoor

Take 60% of your 1rm.
you should be easily able to get that for a set of 10, then try it for 20.

As I said, the first 10 reps should be easy so bang them out. The next 10 will be tougher, take a couple of breaths inbetween reps and get the 20 done.

As mentioned in the above post, add 2.5kg the next week and so on.
See how you get on.

I know this is a vague answer but thats because your question was vague.
doing anything for 20 reps isnt in the regular "strength developing" rep range.

In my opinion, 20 rep squats with decent weight become more like a cardio workout.

d'Oracle

Rycn wrote: »

No luck

Really?

I suppose the whole arguement will probably be restarted here anyway....
Edit: Actually this seems to have been quite civilized, there may be hope.

Brian?

Rycn wrote: »

Why is that then?

The strength isn't my main goal, fitness is. If I can increase weight regularly it won't make a difference to me, i'm just curious about, theres little info on the net about it as far as I can see.

Can I increase weight regularly doing 20RM sets instead of 5RM sets, and if so what incements should I use and when?

So you want to do 20 reps on all your weight excercisea as conditioning?

There are better methods: metcons, sprints etc. I really don't see the point of what you want to do. Maybe I'm missing something here but it seems to me that what you want to do is not optimal for conditioning or strength, so it's a bad idea.

Rycn

Liam Henners257 wrote: »

Take 60% of your 1rm.
you should be easily able to get that for a set of 10, then try it for 20.

As I said, the first 10 reps should be easy so bang them out. The next 10 will be tougher, take a couple of breaths inbetween reps and get the 20 done.

As mentioned in the above post, add 2.5kg the next week and so on.
See how you get on.

I know this is a vague answer but thats because your question was vague.
doing anything for 20 reps isnt in the regular "strength developing" rep range.

In my opinion, 20 rep squats with decent weight become more like a cardio workout.

Cheers Liam, i'll add 2.5 per week and see how I get on.

The cardio aspect is what i'm trying to achieve.

briankeating wrote: »

So you want to do 20 reps on all your weight excercisea as conditioning?

There are better methods: metcons, sprints etc. I really don't see the point of what you want to do. Maybe I'm missing something here but it seems to me that what you want to do is not optimal for conditioning or strength, so it's a bad idea.

Well that's your opinion whether its not optimal or not.

I only do 1 primary exercise for 1 specific muscle group per workout, i throw in maybe 1 or 2 baby exercises on the side. The strength increase is not what i'm trying to achieve i'm just curious about how much your strength can increase as a side effect of regular quick succession sets of 20 reps.

Rycn

Also, I just like the main compound lifts and enjoy doing them, metcons and sprints are not what i enjoy and therefore don't want to do. I'm just curious about 20RM sets!

Brian?

Rycn wrote: »

Well that's your opinion whether its not optimal or not.

It's more than my opinion. It isn't the best way to achieve your goals, otherwise it would the norm.

Brian?

Rycn wrote: »

Also, I just like the main compound lifts and enjoy doing them, metcons and sprints are not what i enjoy and therefore don't want to do. I'm just curious about 20RM sets!

Have at it so horse, I just don't understand why you want to. I'm not trying to have a go or anything.

drdeadlift

Just go try 20 rep sets for a few weeks see how things go.For me they work great.Its nice to have zero pain in your joints.

Inspector Coptoor

Rycn wrote: »

Also, I just like the main compound lifts and enjoy doing them, metcons and sprints are not what i enjoy and therefore don't want to do. I'm just curious about 20RM sets!

Wait a minute?
do you mean 20 reps on all compounds or just squats?

20 rep deadlifts, benching or OH pressing is a bit random.

Rycn

briankeating wrote: »

It's more than my opinion. It isn't the best way to achieve your goals, otherwise it would the norm.

My goal is to achieve 80kg x 20 reps on the bench press for example.

I could easily achieve this by continuing 5x5 up to a point where 80kg x 20 would be easy enough but I don't want to do that. I want to work on the endurance of my muscles and hopefully increase the strength of the lift as a sideeffect.

How will metcons and sprints help me achieve this?

Rycn

briankeating wrote: »

Have at it so horse, I just don't understand why you want to. I'm not trying to have a go or anything.

Cheers for the advice anyway. The cardio and endurance and zero joint pain of 20 reps all sound better than the wobbley painful "hope i don't decapitate myself or destroy my back" aspect of 5 reps. Just looking to change up my programme and see if i can achieve the same strength gains at the same time.

Liam Henners257 wrote: »

Wait a minute?
do you mean 20 reps on all compounds or just squats?

20 rep deadlifts, benching or OH pressing is a bit random.

Haha.

Yeah most compound exercises.

Bit of an experiment in a way.

Kev M

Rycn wrote: »

The cardio and endurance and zero joint pain of 20 reps all sound better than the wobbley painful "hope i don't decapitate myself or destroy my back" aspect of 5 reps..

A true 20 rep max will kill you far more than a 5 rep max. It's important to note the word 'true'. In the final reps your form will probably be falling apart, and that to me is where the real risk of injury is. Grinding out reps, totally shot, with poor form.

Rycn

Kev M wrote: »

A true 20 rep max will kill you far more than a 5 rep max. It's important to note the word 'true'. In the final reps your form will probably be falling apart, and that to me is where the real risk of injury is. Grinding out reps, totally shot, with poor form.

But the weight is light enough for the rest of your body to handle in a way though?

itsallaboutheL

Doing an actual 20rm for cardio reasons is ****ing stupid.

Rycn

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Doing an actual 20rm for cardio reasons is ****ing stupid.

Oh, cheers.

itsallaboutheL

Rycn wrote: »

Oh, cheers.

No bother.

the drifter

Rycn wrote: »

Cheers for the advice anyway. The cardio and endurance and zero joint pain of 20 reps all sound better than the wobbley painful "hope i don't decapitate myself or destroy my back" aspect of 5 reps. Just looking to change up my programme and see if i can achieve the same strength gains at the same time.

Haha.

Yeah most compound exercises.

Bit of an experiment in a way.

i demand a video of you doing 20 rep snatch's

g'em

the drifter wrote: »

i demand a video of you doing 20 rep snatch's

actually - and I speak only in the context of weightlifting - this has its place. In the New Year we'll be introducing conditioning blocks of 20 snatches in 20 minutes and 20 cl & j in 20 minutes. As you get tired your technique gets pushed to the limits, the point being thaat in a high volume, low intensity fitness phase it'll set you up for higher intensity phases later in the cycle. We're not doing them for shíts and giggles though, and they're not for cardio, they're for technique stabilisation.

the drifter

g'em wrote: »

actually - and I speak only in the context of weightlifting - this has its place. In the New Year we'll be introducing conditioning blocks of 20 snatches in 20 minutes and 20 cl & j in 20 minutes. As you get tired your technique gets pushed to the limits, the point being thaat in a high volume, low intensity fitness phase it'll set you up for higher intensity phases later in the cycle. We're not doing them for shíts and giggles though, and they're not for cardio, they're for technique stabilisation.

quite you....:D

20 snatches in 20 minutes is a lot different than 1 set of 20 reps...

Inspector Coptoor

g'em wrote: »

actually - and I speak only in the context of weightlifting - this has its place. In the New Year we'll be introducing conditioning blocks of 20 snatches in 20 minutes and 20 cl & j in 20 minutes. As you get tired your technique gets pushed to the limits, the point being thaat in a high volume, low intensity fitness phase it'll set you up for higher intensity phases later in the cycle. We're not doing them for shíts and giggles though, and they're not for cardio, they're for technique stabilisation.

20 in 20 minutes sounds somewhat sensible though.
Its gonna bring about neural fatigue and technique will break down gradually, and hopefully not in a way that could cause injury.

How long does an average snatch/cl and jk last? 2-3 seconds?
Assuming thats the case, you would have 55 + seconds of recovery time before the next rep.

I dont think its quite the same as having a Barbell constantly on your back for the whole 20 rep set.
I also dont think a 20 rep set of squats, for someone starting out using 60% of 1RM, would take 20 minutes

This has just turned into a surprisingly interesting conversation

the drifter

Liam Henners257 wrote: »

20 in 20 minutes sounds somewhat sensible though.
Its gonna bring about neural fatigue and technique will break down gradually, and hopefully not in a way that could cause injury.

How long does an average snatch/cl and jk last? 2-3 seconds?
Assuming thats the case, you would have 55 + seconds of recovery time before the next rep.

I dont think its quite the same as having a Barbell constantly on your back for the whole 20 rep set.
I also dont think a 20 rep set of squats, for someone starting out using 60% of 1RM, would take 20 minutes

This has just turned into a surprisingly interesting conversation

thats what i meant but im too sleepy to type it

g'em

the drifter wrote: »

quite you....:D

20 snatches in 20 minutes is a lot different than 1 set of 20 reps...

Liam Henners257 wrote: »

20 in 20 minutes sounds somewhat sensible though.
Its gonna bring about neural fatigue and technique will break down gradually, and hopefully not in a way that could cause injury.

Absolutely, hence I stressed the weightlifting context in my post. It's not at all the same as having a load on your back for 20 sonitnual reps, I was just being pedantic given that drifter brought up snatches

Liam Henners257 wrote:

How long does an average snatch/cl and jk last? 2-3 seconds?
Assuming thats the case, you would have 55 + seconds of recovery time before the next rep.

The lift itself lasts that but setting up the lift can take up to 30 seconds, so you really have very, very little time between lifts. I haven't done it myself yet, some of the other guys have and I know my coach is going to be introducing it into my 5 month cycle that starts in January. They're seeing good neural adaptation to it and I'd imagine I'll see the same thing. It won't have any major crossover strength-wise, all it will be doing is improving my fitness for coping with the heavier cycles to come.

Liam Henners257 wrote:

I dont think its quite the same as having a Barbell constantly on your back for the whole 20 rep set.
I also dont think a 20 rep set of squats, for someone starting out using 60% of 1RM, would take 20 minutes

Not arguing with you there, again see the weightlifting reference, I'm just introducing a new angle to the discussion

Hanley

Rycn wrote: »

But the weight is light enough for the rest of your body to handle in a way though?

If you do a true, REAL, 20 rep balls out effort there's nothing that won't hurt. Your upper back will cramp from exertion, your abs will feel like they've been slashed open and your legs will be FUBAR'd.

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Doing an actual 20rm for cardio reasons is ****ing stupid.

This.

If you wanna do 20 reps just to do 20 reps, have at it. Pointless for doing anything other than increasing your 20 rep strength tho. Good for ball, size I suppose.

Rycn

Tried it earlier and felt great. Great buzz after it and i was sweating like a pig.

At the same time i'm going to see how long i'll last implementing this, by the way i feel right now after that session... i doubt it'll be very long

itsallaboutheL

Rycn wrote: »

Tried it earlier and felt great. Great buzz after it and i was sweating like a pig.

That was not 20rm set in the um.. classical sense.




Can something be classical if it's a contemporary development?

Also can sic be used if it's not related to a misspelling, me fail at english

Hanley

Rycn wrote: »

Tried it earlier and felt great. Great buzz after it and i was sweating like a pig.

At the same time i'm going to see how long i'll last implementing this, by the way i feel right now after that session... i doubt it'll be very long

If you felt great, you weren't trying hard enough

COH

Hanley wrote: »

If you felt great, you weren't trying hard enough

Fact. A 20 rep squat should leave you unable to stand up, sit or ly down, and leave it almost impossible to be hunched over in the middle, or be able to breath, blink or move fingers without wanting to puke/pass out

drdeadlift

COH wrote: »

Fact. A 20 rep squat should leave you unable to stand up, sit or ly down, and leave it almost impossible to be hunched over in the middle, or be able to breath, blink or move fingers without wanting to puke/pass out

Now cmon really the bar wasn't that heavy,