Where's Gormley?

Poly

Does anybody know the whereabouts of our minister of the environment?


Is he washing his hands (if he has water) of his dept. now that he knows he’s unelectable?

the groutch

maybe he's on holidays with Mr Dempsey in Malta

P. Breathnach

What should he be doing that is not being done?

Seth Brundle

P. Breathnach wrote: »

What should he be doing that is not being done?

Helping to create jobs?
Helping to bring our country back from bankruptcy?
Helping to reduce wastage in our public service (starting @ home with the payment sums made to he and his kin)
etc.

Poly

P. Breathnach wrote: »

What should he be doing that is not being done?

His Job?

Organising bottled water deliveries like N.I.
Opening public swimming pools so people can wash.
Organising delivieris of water for hard pressed businesses.
mobilising more water tankers.
Hiring private contractors to urgently repair the leaks.
Ensure hospitals and care centres have enough water.

Thats just a few ideas.

kenco

Working out how much is Pension is if he retires from politics before the election (possibly)....

ei.sdraob

kbannon wrote: »

Helping to create jobs?
Helping to bring our country back from bankruptcy?
Helping to reduce wastage in our public service (starting @ home with the payment sums made to he and his kin)
etc.

hahahaha the Greens? create jobs?

the Greens have shown time and time again they dont care about ****ing jobs for anyone but their friends

Poly

but anyways,I do want to find out, does anyone know where the clown is? Is he abroad?

Shea O'Meara

One of two things or one of two frames of mind:

Believing he's staying the course, good on him, keeping FFail in check. I.E. delusional.

Or

Riding out the storm in the backroom hoping the mud won't stick. I.E. living in denial.

Waste of space and owes me an apology.

P. Breathnach

Poly wrote: »

His Job?

Organising bottled water deliveries like N.I.
Opening public swimming pools so people can wash.
Organising delivieris of water for hard pressed businesses.
mobilising more water tankers.
Hiring private contractors to urgently repair the leaks.
Ensure hospitals and care centres have enough water.

Thats just a few ideas.

Such things are the jobs of local authority employees.

Dempo1

Probably holed up in his D4 pad, considering his option whether to retire with a nice pension pot or go for re election with the typical green grasp of reality thinking he might actually get reelected.

TBH, the quieter this useless idiot is along with Paul **** you Gogarty the better, just the sight never mind sound of these buffoons turns my stomach, no doubt Gormless is probably also thinking of a new hair brained idea, Hmmm a tax on water containers @ water throughout the country, Idiots the lot of them, good riddance!

Palmach

kbannon wrote: »

Helping to create jobs?
Helping to bring our country back from bankruptcy?
Helping to reduce wastage in our public service (starting @ home with the payment sums made to he and his kin)
etc.

How do you know he isn't doing that? Does he have to be seen to do this in public? Maybe he should move his desk onto the street so people can see him?

Poly

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Such things are the jobs of local authority employees.

No, this is a national crisis requiring a government response. I can't believe Gormley didn't learn anything from Dempseys failure to respond last feb.

Seth Brundle

Palmach wrote: »

How do you know he isn't doing that? Does he have to be seen to do this in public? Maybe he should move his desk onto the street so people can see him?

He has done nothing positive worth noting so far given the amount of damage that he and his soon-to-be-destroyed party have voted in favour of.

He is a politician. If he was doing something positive for the people then he would be onto the media about it before you could say "bye bye John you loathsome man"!

Mr.Applepie

Poly wrote: »

His Job?

Organising bottled water deliveries like N.I.
Opening public swimming pools so people can wash.
Organising delivieris of water for hard pressed businesses.
mobilising more water tankers.
Hiring private contractors to urgently repair the leaks.
Ensure hospitals and care centres have enough water.

Thats just a few ideas.

Wouldn't it be great if we had a working government who could think 1, maybe 2 weeks in advance. /dream

Yllut

Eamon Ryan has him kept prisoner in his house to keep his mouth shut till after the GE. He got the idea from Richard and Leo they have Kenny in the same basement. :eek: :eek:

Poly

Mr.Applepie wrote: »

Wouldn't it be great if we had a working government who could think 1, maybe 2 weeks in advance. /dream

In fairness they probably did think 2 weeks in advance and knew they would be on holidays when the thaw started, so it's not Gormleys problem 'till mid Jan.

Biggins

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/gormley-under-fire-for-going-missing-in-action-2478663.html

flutered

P. Breathnach wrote: »

What should he be doing that is not being done?

just proveing that he can be done without.

Macha

He was at a meeting of the water sub-committee of the National Severe Weather Co-ordination Committee in the Custom House.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1230/breaking4.html

The problems today are a result of over 50 years of under investment in Irish water infrastructure. When was the last time anyone on here held that as an important consideration in who they voted for?

Yllut

It is more important for Gormlass to spend money putting in water meters than fixing the infrastructure first. :mad:
Ps the clown should never have been a minister.:eek:

Sully

One would think that during a crisis with our water supply and the Norths ministers commenting on their problem (albeit worse, I know, but still) that our little green man would a) do his job, b) learn how to do his job at least from others in Ireland, and c) stop running around with the key to the country and actually do some work that will benefit Ireland not his little green party.

There was uproar when Dempsey went AWOL during the transport crisis, so this green man should be held accountable for staying quiet and not commenting properly in the media during our water problem. Likewise, Kenny was being put for the slaughter when he (apparently!) went missing during the budget stuff.


Gormley is elected to represent the country on finance matters. This should include water. We have a water problem. Our minister should wake up and act. But he seems far to interested in playing party war "I want my policies in" instead of getting the country back working again, and some economic stability.

Another government minister, another crisis, and another spell of silence. Well done Gorm!

Macha

Yllut wrote: »

It is more important for Gormlass to spend money putting in water meters than fixing the infrastructure first. :mad:
Ps the clown should never have been a minister.:eek:

And where exactly do you think the money to spend on the infrastructure is going to come from? Nothing funny about the fact we're one of the only countries in EU that doesn't pay water charges and there has been serious underinvestment in water.

Sully wrote: »

Gormley is elected to represent the country on finance matters. This should include water. We have a water problem. Our minister should wake up and act. But he seems far to interested in playing party war "I want my policies in" instead of getting the country back working again, and some economic stability.

Another government minister, another crisis, and another spell of silence. Well done Gorm!

Not true. Gormley laid out a programme of investment and has continued to put money into it:

http://www.environ.ie/en/Environment/Water/WaterServices/WaterServicesInvestmentProgramme/

But the idea that he could single handedly make up for decades of underinvestment in our national water infrastructure is entirely unrealistic. Some of the stuff down there dates back to the Victorians.

And he is the Minister for the Environment, not Finance - or was that a mistake?

oppenheimer1

Yllut wrote: »

It is more important for Gormlass to spend money putting in water meters than fixing the infrastructure first. :mad:
Ps the clown should never have been a minister.:eek:

Well the money raised from metering will 1) reduce demand 2) Generate revenue for the maintainence and upgrade of water infrastructure.

While there is a problem with burst mains, the real problem is with householders and businesses ignoring leaky fittings. If they were paying per litre they'd be quick to fix. Over the past few days while our supply pipe was frozen I've become quite aware of the huge amount of water my household uses while we're supposed to be rationing the stuff!

Another problem is the strung out nature of the water network servicing all these one off houses. It makes provision and maintainence of mains very expensive.

Dempo1

Palmach wrote: »

How do you know he isn't doing that? Does he have to be seen to do this in public? Maybe he should move his desk onto the street so people can see him?

OMG no, please Gormley stay quite, stay in the hole you dug yourself and most of all just **** off to eternity. I for one was glad not to hear a word from him or Gogarty during the crisis! Idiots!

Yllut

Palmach wrote: »

How do you know he isn't doing that? Does he have to be seen to do this in public? Maybe he should move his desk onto the street so people can see him?

The clown's desk will be soon out on the street Thank Allagh. The parasite should never have been allowed in the first place. :mad:
:D:D

CtrlSource

Ah lads! I thought this wasn't p.ie? ¬_¬ Here's me coming over and re-engaging with boards politics forum and the first thing I click in on has both 'gormless' and 'parasite' within the first few posts.

Biggins

CtrlSource wrote: »

...the first thing I click in on has both 'gormless' and 'parasite' within the first few posts.

Well we can't change what he is, only he can do that! :pac:

mikemac

CtrlSource wrote: »

Ah lads! I thought this wasn't p.ie? ¬_¬

This place is increasingly looking more and more like politics.ie which is a shame

unit 1

Now that the budget is passed he's busy trying to find a way to add about 365 or more days onto the month of january.:D

Sully

Macha wrote: »

Not true. Gormley laid out a programme of investment and has continued to put money into it:

http://www.environ.ie/en/Environment/Water/WaterServices/WaterServicesInvestmentProgramme/

But the idea that he could single handedly make up for decades of underinvestment in our national water infrastructure is entirely unrealistic. Some of the stuff down there dates back to the Victorians.

And he is the Minister for the Environment, not Finance - or was that a mistake?

Never said the crisis is his problem, nor did I ever say the snow was Dempseys fault. I was commenting on his performance during the mess.

As environment minister, he should have been seen all along commenting on the crisis and advising people in addition to the council. But it took an age for him to get out and comment. Businesses and householders were without water for ages and our environment minister hasn't done much to reassure people.

Like when Kenny wasn't around much for the IMF, there was murder. When Dempsey was refusing to respond to our problems here when on holiday. Now Gormley is in hiding as the country faces water leaks and shortages covered in his departments brief that he represents.

As for the problem itself - keep pouring money into something and then when you have bad weather the money hasn't sorted diddly squat, you ask questions. Seems to me like its a bit of "Sure ill throw a few million into a kitty and talk about how great I am as a Green Minister. I don't need to comment, I have given and continue to give money to the kitty. After that, I wash my hands of it (if I had water...)"

Sully

feelingstressed wrote: »

This place is increasingly looking more and more like politics.ie which is a shame

Boards.ie isn't that much alike Politics.ie. This is more civilized, friendly banter and chat. Politics.ie is the very serious, but less civilized and controlled political discussion site. Perhaps P.ie takes it more seriously and all the big political wigs and commentators (ammatuer and pro) are on the site commenting away. We don't have that, and I don't think we ever will. Boards.ie isn't a "discuss one theme more then the other" site. P.ie is ALL about politics. Boards.ie is ALL about everything, including Politics, so its not as centralized and heated.

This forum is being run well, its good a good base, and yes there are room for improvement but not half as much as P.ie.

Public Figures always will have nicknames attached to them, and if there not derogatory then leave it slide IMO. We cant be a nanny state.

_Kaiser_

You only need to read the top stories on Breaking News today to see just how incompetent this government - and by extension us for not DEMANDING better is.

In the North there's outrage over how its water authority has handled the shortages and how its unacceptable and people must be brought to account for this - and this is from the top levels of government there. Even the head of the authority has come out and admitted its not been good enough.

Compare that to the response here - sure we'll throw a few quid at it and say 'unprecedented conditions' a lot but don't worry lads, no one will lose their cushy jobs or anything.. its only the 'little people' after all!

I have said it before, but every time this country faces a crisis, the response truely makes me ask if we are really capable of self governance. I mean, look at the mess we've made of things in only 90-odd years!

I think maybe we NEED someone to tell us what to do and run things because when we are let at the controls we spend so much time lining our pockets, looking after our mates and village back home and lining up 'jobs for life' for our kids and relatives, and bickering like kids in a schoolyard in our so-called national parliament, that the concepts of 'the greater good' or 'the national interest' never enters our greedy parochial little minds.

Great times to be Irish eh?

Macha

Sully wrote: »

As for the problem itself - keep pouring money into something and then when you have bad weather the money hasn't sorted diddly squat, you ask questions. Seems to me like its a bit of "Sure ill throw a few million into a kitty and talk about how great I am as a Green Minister. I don't need to comment, I have given and continue to give money to the kitty. After that, I wash my hands of it (if I had water...)"

After reading your post, I do agree that he should have been more visible.

As for the issue, I think you are mistaken. We need significant investment in our water infrastructure to improve leakages and I don't see how a move in this direction can be dismissed as you have done so.

I'd ask the question again - how many voters consider investment in water infrastructure as a significant consideration? It sure hasn't featured in any major election debates I've listened to but all of a sudden it's everyone's priority.

P. Breathnach

Macha wrote: »

...
I'd ask the question again - how many voters consider investment in water infrastructure as a significant consideration? It sure hasn't featured in any major election debates I've listened to but all of a sudden it's everyone's priority.

It is for such things that we have public servants. I am sure that all the local authorities have a fairly good idea of what work is needed, and have draft plans, with costings, for doing it over a reasonable number of years. Then comes the crunch: the budget process, in which there is considerable political input. Choices are made, and the water mains are not as visible as the other projects that a local authority has to handle, so it is trivially easy to bargain down the priority given to maintenance or development of the water infrastructure ("Ah, sure it has lasted for donkey's years without giving us too much trouble, so the major refurbishment can wait one more year" -- again and again).

Macha

P. Breathnach wrote: »

It is for such things that we have public servants. I am sure that all the local authorities have a fairly good idea of what work is needed, and have draft plans, with costings, for doing it over a reasonable number of years. Then comes the crunch: the budget process, in which there is considerable political input. Choices are made, and the water mains are not as visible as the other projects that a local authority has to handle, so it is trivially easy to bargain down the priority given to maintenance or development of the water infrastructure ("Ah, sure it has lasted for donkey's years without giving us too much trouble, so the major refurbishment can wait one more year" -- again and again).

No, decisions to invest in certain areas are made by governments. And the reason we have all the leaks and other problems today is because of decades of underinvestment. That wasn't because of decisions by local authorities, that's because of political decisions made by past governments.

The lack of water charges has also been a significant barrier to progress.

P. Breathnach

Macha wrote: »

No, decisions to invest in certain areas are made by governments. And the reason we have all the leaks and other problems today is because of decades of underinvestment. That wasn't because of decisions by local authorities, that's because of political decisions made by past governments.

Decisions are made by politicians in consultation with officials. That includes local authority level and government level (particularly the Minister for the Environment and, as always, the Minister for Finance). The identification of need and demand for funding comes from the local authority level. It's a bottom-up process, but not every proposed project gets past local control to be referred to the Department of the Environment. Where it does get that far, the final decision is made at the top level.

In effect, there isn't really a strategy. It more a matter of judging what proposals can not be denied funding. That's a mish-mash of truly urgent need, the scope within local budgets, the wish to make certain interest groups happy, and even politicians' pet interests.

The lack of water charges has also been a significant barrier to progress.

Yes.

Macha

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Decisions are made by politicians in consultation with officials. That includes local authority level and government level (particularly the Minister for the Environment and, as always, the Minister for Finance). The identification of need and demand for funding comes from the local authority level. It's a bottom-up process, but not every proposed project gets past local control to be referred to the Department of the Environment. Where it does get that far, the final decision is made at the top level.

In effect, there isn't really a strategy. It more a matter of judging what proposals can not be denied funding. That's a mish-mash of truly urgent need, the scope within local budgets, the wish to make certain interest groups happy, and even politicians' pet interests.

The sentence in bold is key. There should be a national strategy for water infrastructure in the same way we have a national strategy for energy infrastructure. It doesn't exist and whatever way the details and responsibilities are shared out with local authorities, it's up to the national government to create such a strategy.

ebbsy

He's at home, running baths and washing de car while Dublin burns.

patar

OH shut up Miserable winging.

expectationlost

"It's a bottom-up process" ahahahha ahahahah ahahahahaha ahahahahah oh dear....

gormely should really stop seeming so pleased by disasters.

Liam Byrne

Gormley has no moral authority to introduce water charges.

His party signed away billions to the banks & NAMA, billions that could have been invested in this country and it's people.

Aside from households being unable to afford to pay, the above fact should not be forgotten.

Leiva

Are the Greens still walking next week (2nd week Jan) ?

Seth Brundle

...and give up power?
Why on earth would they do that? Sure through their actions in causing damage to this country they have proven how much they love being in power. You can't really expect them to give that up willingly, do you?

Leiva

kbannon wrote: »

...and give up power?
Why on earth would they do that? Sure through their actions in causing damage to this country they have proven how much they love being in power. You can't really expect them to give that up willingly, do you?

What the fcuk was that all about then the week the IMF came to town ? Did or did they not say that come 2nd week of Jan 2011 that they will no longer support the coalition , hence a GE

P. Breathnach

Macha wrote: »

... There should be a national strategy for water infrastructure in the same way we have a national strategy for energy infrastructure. It doesn't exist and whatever way the details and responsibilities are shared out with local authorities, it's up to the national government to create such a strategy.

There is a danger that we might end up with a strategy more like the National Spatial Strategy, which was constructed in a pusillanimous way so as not to offend any voter, and was then largely ignored by our government (spectacularly in McCreevy's decentralisation project).

That's a real problem with strategy in Irish public affairs: our politicians act tactically in the interest of their supporters and their individual electoral success. If that means screwing up a major infrastructure programme, then the attitude is "so be it".

I agree that a strategy should be organised centrally, but with significant input from local government (that's where the engineers are). Central control might also achieve some efficiencies because it is less constrained by the boundaries that apply to local government, and there is also the possibility of scheduling major works to get optimal value from expensive specialised equipment.

We really need to protect programmes like this from political meddling. The politicians can set the targets and arrange the funding system, and then they should let those who are charged with implementation got on with things with no interference.

How can we safeguard such a project from politicians? We create a body to take charge of it, give it a very clear brief, and require it to report regularly on progress, probably formally to the Minister for the Environment, but also as a public communication. Because things can change over time, we would need some mechanisms for tweaking the programme in consultation with the government and the local authorities, but the mechanisms should be robust so that a self-serving TD cannot bump a village up the list simply because he has the ear of the Minister for the Environment.

[I think I have proposed the creation of a new quango. Is that a bad thing?]

Seth Brundle

mixednuts wrote: »

What the fcuk was that all about then the week the IMF came to town ? Did or did they not say that come 2nd week of Jan 2011 that they will no longer support the coalition , hence a GE

Don't get too disappointed when the second week comes and goes with no call by the glasraí for an GE.

Leiva

kbannon wrote: »

Don't get too disappointed when the second week comes and goes with no call by the glasraí for an GE.

What was the deal then with that press conference ?
Remember the one that Geogarty had his little one at ? Have we really gone that far to accept the ignorance and pompus we are been shown by this coalition .
These muppets called a press conference stating that the public should be giving a GE and this was to be started in Jan 2011 or support by the Greens will be withdrawn .

What's changed ?

Seth Brundle

Its typical guff from the glasraí that we've experienced since they skulked into power.
Sure Dan Boyle, the unelected mouthpiece for them came out recently and told us of their latest plans which are to call for a GE by the end of Jan. They will be happy having the Dáil dissolved by mid-March rather than havinng the GE then.
Aren't TDs/Ministers pensions due to come into effect and/or increase by Apirl?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/1210/1224285187936.html


I think my point is that the greens have learnt well from their FF masters. They like having power and will do whatever they can to hold onto it, even if that includes talking a load of crap to try to fool the electorate.