Starting a gym? Advice needed.

beggars_bush

Hey fitness people.

Myself (business background) and a friend (fitness background) are thinking of opening a gym in a town down the country.

We believe there is a market in the town for a quality, no frills gym with good equipment, plenty of free and olympic weights, with few necessary machines. throw in some cardio equipment also. We also want to have a hall where teams/groups could be catered for with circuit/personal training/spinning for a fee. And add into all that: good changing areas. We have already identified a good location - close enough walk to town centre, but with good access and parking.

There are already at least 3 gyms in the area. Two are in hotels, have pools and are fairly upmarket and expensive - with low standards of weights and lots of cardio and both do fitness classes aimed at women. The other is a low frills gym with ok equipment, mainly weights and some cardio and a small studio for classes. There are lots of GAA, rugby, soccer, boxing clubs in the area and a good athletics and triathlon club. And most of those clubs have no gyms

We've gone to local enterprise board, who have suggested we carry out some research to begin with.
Anyone have any idea how we would go about gauging the levels of interest/business for a gym in the town? How has anybody on this forum done that in the past?

Cheers

TeddyTedson

I'd love to open a gym. Where abouts are ya. I you can keep it cheap everyone will join!

Hanley

Sit outside the other gyms and watch footfall.

Find out membership prices for said gyms.

Find out estimates on rates/rents/overheads for similar facilities.

Get an idea of costs v income from that.

Chances are a lot of people who sign up for gym memberships won't be there consistently so be aware of that in your model.

Mr. Presentable

Be careful. We are in recession. People will walk etc for exercise rather than spend money on it.

Hanley

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Be careful. We are in recession.

No we're not.

discus

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Be careful. We are in recession. People will walk etc for exercise rather than spend money on it.

Mammies will walk for fitness. The tons of unemployed men will want a bit more than a walk or run.

TeddyTedson

Hanley wrote: »

No we're not.

well i feckin am

the country is in an awful state.
the sooner we take the government out and shoot the bastards the better!!
wasted our money.

Hanley

TeddyTedson wrote: »

well i feckin am

the country is in an awful state.
the sooner we take the government out and shoot the bastards the better!!
wasted our money.

What's a recession?

TeddyTedson

Hanley wrote: »

What's a recession?

it's bad news

g'em

Hanley stop being so obtuse and explain yourself.

Hanley

g'em wrote: »

Hanley stop being so obtuse and explain yourself.

A "recession" per economic definition is a decline in GDP for two or more consecutive quarters. Per the latest CSO figures, GDP is rising in Ireland again, therefore, not a recession.

At least I was helpful earlier eh?

Chet Zar

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Be careful. We are in recession. People will walk etc for exercise rather than spend money on it.

I would disagree - I think people will actually look to invest more in improving their health and fitness, especially when they have more time on their hands.

Hanley

Chet Zar wrote: »

I would disagree - I think people will actually look to invest more in improving their health and fitness, especially when they have more time on their hands.

I'd tend to agree here...

themandan6611

Hanley wrote: »

What's a recession?

its when you can't take weeks of paid leave whilst you train

ragg

Chet Zar wrote: »

I would disagree - I think people will actually look to invest more in improving their health and fitness, especially when they have more time on their hands.

Everyone you meet these days is into fitness of somekind at the minute.
It's just not cool to be fat during a recession.

g'em

Opening up a 'specialised' gym (obviously it's not really specialized but it doesn't it the regular gym mold, a good thing btw ) is tough going at the best of times, and even harder now. If you're looking to do this as a profit making venture, you will most likely be disappointed. If you're looking foe it to break even and your concern is to provide a great place for people to train then knock yourselves out.

If you do decide to go ahead with it my personal advice would be to affiliate yourselves with non-exclusive NGB's who can avail of the gym for training and holding seminars. Make yourselves known to the ISC and familiarize yourselves with the grants and schemes available.

I think the people who are willing to spend money on a gym in this climate are in the minority. BUT those are the same people who want to avail of the type of gym that you have to offer

Chet Zar

g'em wrote: »

Opening up a 'specialised' gym (obviously it's not really specialized but it doesn't it the regular gym mold, a good thing btw ) is tough going at the best of times, and even harder now. If you're looking to do this as a profit making venture, you will most likely be disappointed. If you're looking foe it to break even and your concern is to provide a great place for people to train then knock yourselves out.

If you do decide to go ahead with it my personal advice would be to affiliate yourselves with non-exclusive NGB's who can avail of the gym for training and holding seminars. Make yourselves known to the ISC and familiarize yourselves with the grants and schemes available.

I think the people who are willing to spend money on a gym in this climate are in the minority. BUT those are the same people who want to avail of the type of gym that you have to offer

I suspect you'd have more inside knowledge than myself g'em, but I wonder if the 'if you want it to be profit-making, you'll most likely be disappointed' is a bit bleak? I mean it can't be easy but surely most gyms out there (even the more niche ones) are making some sort of profit, even if only slim?

Here's something that just occurred to me - how about making your gym more exclusive - maybe even invitation only? I'm just thinking out loud generally here as opposed to specifically suggesting you think about it. I think most people judge their gym on how busy it gets when they want to use it and on how freely they can carry out their workout. What about a gym where instead of packing them in they cap the membership and charge members a little more* for the experience of having lots of space to do what they want to do? I know I'd take that over a packed gym any day, and am sure I'm not the only one.


*Obviously would have to be somewhat reasonable, maybe 10-15% more than a 'regular' membership fee.

The Davestator

As someone who has run gyms for the last 8 years, including all the 'chains' I can tell you that it is very difficult to make decent profit in any size gym. Example from this year- Jackie Skelly bankrupt, total fitness into administraton, numerous small and medium gyms closed (peak health, Westgate etc) and another big chain on the brink.
Rent, insurance, rates, staff, equipment lease or loan, utilities etc etc.
It can be done but I'd pick a less saturated town big time.

g'em

I know four different small gym (100 members or so) in three different counties, all of whom would be in the S&C line and all would be breaking even or making a very slight profit - it's entirely possible that a profit could be made of course but it's HARD.

This might be a bit of a controversial thing to say but the difference between the big cookie cutter gyms and the specialist gyms is that the specialist gyms - for want of a better phrase - don't sell themselves out. They concentrate on indvidual, one one one, personal experiences which kind of puts a cap on how many mbers you can cater too. The big gyms have more capital for marketing and PR, advertising and special offers. The stet up capital for a new small gym is swallowed up by premises costs, renovations, new equipment, staff training and payment etc.

Big gyms can afford to employ people with minimal training, small personalized gyms needs to take on specialists who know what theyre doing and will cost that bit more.

I'd LOVE it if we had more small, personal gyms around, don't get me wrong, I just think people doin it need to keep their eyes open doing it.

The Guvnor

A lovely idea but rarely a good business.

More cardio would make more sense notwithstanding the increase in set up costs.

Best of luck with it but even if basic think less hardcore and more mainstream.

WHIP IT!

For me, ye can't beat the Ben Dunne philosophy, it's just like he did with Dunnes Stores: Get the money before your competitor does. Just like when he had his Xmas sales in October about 20years ago and got everyone's holiday money before the competitors.

His gyms are simple: He seems to get a good location, fill it full of good equipment, charge f**k all to join and plug the life out of it - ie, gets the money before someone else does!

Hanley mentioned it earlier - it's the "free money" that will make or break you - ie, the people who pay up and don't come!

beggars_bush

cheers for the replies

the reason this particular town was chosen is that we both know the town, know a lot of the sports clubs around the place

I have another job, so would prefer to be near any business!

• I suppose neither of us would be doing this to make a huge profit. It would provide a few people with employment (hopefully)
• provide a great place to workout (with good equipment and support from staff)
• help people achieve whatever goals they have
• provide a facility and service to local clubs who wanted a strength/fitness solution for teams or individuals

Scuba Ste

WHIP IT! wrote: »

For me, ye can't beat the Ben Dunne philosophy, it's just like he did with Dunnes Stores: Get the money before your competitor does. Just like when he had his Xmas sales in October about 20years ago and got everyone's holiday money before the competitors.

His gyms are simple: He seems to get a good location, fill it full of good equipment, charge f**k all to join and plug the life out of it - ie, gets the money before someone else does!

Hanley mentioned it earlier - it's the "free money" that will make or break you - ie, the people who pay up and don't come!

Sh1t gyms though, purely about the money, you'd only have to look at Dunne to know that.

Completely different to what the OP is trying to do.

beggars_bush

Scuba Ste wrote: »

Sh1t gyms though, purely about the money, you'd only have to look at Dunne to know that.

Completely different to what the OP is trying to do.

hold on, we wouldn't say no to lots of money and members!

Ah no, I think its time for us to go and start looking at succesful gyms in Ireland and the facilities provided - any suggestions. I've been to a few unreal gyms on university campuses in America. We'd be aiming for something a bit more humble.

g'em

you won't find anything even remotely near the US University gyms over here - we havent the funding, the resources or the interest. Most University level team coaching is well behind current S&C practices and the gyms cater to what the public want i.e. the same as the big cookie cutter gyms. The only world class gym that's on this island is (sorry UL) the Sports Complex at the University of Ulster, Jordanstown. It's awesome.

It all depends on what you consider "succesful". Some commercial gyms are succesful int eh monetary sense, others are succesful in the athletes they produce, but none to my knowledge provide both. It's shít tbh.

beggars_bush

g'em wrote: »

you won't find anything even remotely near the US University gyms over here - we havent the funding, the resources or the interest. Most University level team coaching is well behind current S&C practices and the gyms cater to what the public want i.e. the same as the big cookie cutter gyms. The only world class gym that's on this island is (sorry UL) the Sports Complex at the University of Ulster, Jordanstown. It's awesome.

It all depends on what you consider "succesful". Some commercial gyms are succesful int eh monetary sense, others are succesful in the athletes they produce, but none to my knowledge provide both. It's shít tbh.

cheers for the feedback.
I've seen the gyms in DCU, UCD, NUIG.
also a lot of fitness clubs in hotels and leisure centres.
What gyms would your recommend we go and see as an example of what can be done with a proper vision?

the drifter

g'em wrote: »

you won't find anything even remotely near the US University gyms over here - we havent the funding, the resources or the interest. Most University level team coaching is well behind current S&C practices and the gyms cater to what the public want i.e. the same as the big cookie cutter gyms. The only world class gym that's on this island is (sorry UL) the Sports Complex at the University of Ulster, Jordanstown. It's awesome.

It all depends on what you consider "succesful". Some commercial gyms are succesful int eh monetary sense, others are succesful in the athletes they produce, but none to my knowledge provide both. It's shít tbh.

agreed if it wasnt sold up the river for a funny shaped ball and some red shirts....but thats a whole other conversation.

cc87

It may be worth discussing with the local teams if their players will use the gym, depending on the sport and the players money for things such as training in gyms, S&C coaches etc can be hard to push on clubs who struggle to find funding for gear, trainers, physios etc.

While i would love a gym your describing near me, it would take quite a number of years for it to build up a decent membership.

metamorphosis

Agree that The US set up is unreal. I went to a state university for a while over there 2 years ago and the set up for even that state university was pretty decent

Transform

just keep in mind that running your own business is NOT a business unless its making a profit.

Many trainers and gyms run their business like its a hobby NOT a business - big difference.

Figure out how to make a profit and you're sorted.

Finally go and visit gyms or trainers that are making a profit and ask them what they are doing

soc$

I think the high performance gym at DCU is a good facility

beggars_bush

thanks for all the feedback

I'll update ye as things progress.

Lloyd Xmas

Been wanting to do the same for a while myself.

I've been trying to find out the average number of members though in a small gym, lets say with a workout area of 3000sqft? This is the clincher of a question and its make or break.
Location, competition, and the setup of the place are key but I can't find any figures for average number of members, and how many on average, subscribe & unsubscribe each month.
In order to get loan approval also, the bank will drill you on how exactly they're gonna get their money back, and the answer purely comes down to the number of memberships.
I tried to ask in a few places but lets just say it wasn't exactly the kind of info thay were too keen on parting with.
Does anyone have any ballpark figures for a small enough place?

The Guvnor

Transform wrote: »

just keep in mind that running your own business is NOT a business unless its making a profit.

Good point - it has to be stand on it's own and this should include modest salaries/expenses for the owners at the very least.

There are some excellent gyms in the UK but the market is much, much bigger there.

Best of luck with it all.

deadlybuzzman

please please say its in the north west!

Ive often thought about the viabilaty of a less frilly more nuts and bolts almost warehouse type gym and I know insurance can be a huge cost. could a members only type policy i.e. people cant walk in off the street, possibly reduce the insurance premium?

WHIP IT!

Scuba Ste wrote: »

Sh1t gyms though, purely about the money, you'd only have to look at Dunne to know that.

Completely different to what the OP is trying to do.

I beg to differ. The one in Lucan is fantastic and memberships are available for as little as €125! Dunne keeps firing em and and, presumably, turning a profit.

beggars_bush

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

please please say its in the north west!

Ive often thought about the viabilaty of a less frilly more nuts and bolts almost warehouse type gym and I know insurance can be a huge cost. could a members only type policy i.e. people cant walk in off the street, possibly reduce the insurance premium?

where in the north west exactly? just curious

its amazing the population profile of a town has a huge bearing on a gym - as in are there a lot of people in the 18-35 age bracket

deadlybuzzman

beggars_bush wrote: »

where in the north west exactly? just curious

its amazing the population profile of a town has a huge bearing on a gym - as in are there a lot of people in the 18-35 age bracket

sligo-yeah thats understandable though because when you think of the age profile of most senior sports clubs its in the same age bracket-my old gym had the sligo hurling team in doing circuits and it was painful to watch, doing laps on what was basically a Curves set up followed by sitting on swiss balls with little dumbells. Id never claim to know it all but I know when things are plain wrong.
Thing is if thats at county level Id hate to think what else could be happening-If only someone could show them a deFranco session!

beggars_bush

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

sligo-yeah thats understandable though because when you think of the age profile of most senior sports clubs its in the same age bracket-my old gym had the sligo hurling team in doing circuits and it was painful to watch, doing laps on what was basically a Curves set up followed by sitting on swiss balls with little dumbells. Id never claim to know it all but I know when things are plain wrong.
Thing is if thats at county level Id hate to think what else could be happening-If only someone could show them a deFranco session!

that team might not have had access to anything better
some towns down the country have very few people aged 18-30 actually living in them due to lack of jobs emigration and migration to Dublin, Galway etc

deadlybuzzman

beggars_bush wrote: »

that team might not have had access to anything better
some towns down the country have very few people aged 18-30 actually living in them due to lack of jobs emigration and migration to Dublin, Galway etc

in some counties possibly but the county football team have their own private section in a different gym, I got talking to a guy who used it last year and by the sounds of it they dont have them doing anything hugely different to the hurlers, also Ive a big thing for doing the likes of cleans for sports and I asked him did they do any- when he didnt know what that was I explained it and he said no they didnt-maybe that was just the time he was there though.
Maybe someone should buy them some tyres and sledgehammers!

Wonkagirl

Hanley wrote: »

A "recession" per economic definition is a decline in GDP for two or more consecutive quarters. Per the latest CSO figures, GDP is rising in Ireland again, therefore, not a recession.

At least I was helpful earlier eh?

You need TWO quaters of growth to be officially out of a recession. We have only had 1. We are still officially in a recession therefore, until we get a second, consecutive Quater of growth..

anyway, back to the OP- would you consider an outdoor fitness bootcamp in a local park? heaps of these running very successfully in dublin- www.bootcampireland.ie, www.keepfit.ie, www.fitsquad.ie and so on... very very few overheads, and they charge between 120 and 150 per person for 8 week term... for me it (the middle one listed) has been the singlemost effective way to get fit that i've ever embarked on.

beggars_bush

Wonkagirl wrote: »

You need TWO quaters of growth to be officially out of a recession. We have only had 1. We are still officially in a recession therefore, until we get a second, consecutive Quater of growth..

anyway, back to the OP- would you consider an outdoor fitness bootcamp in a local park? heaps of these running very successfully in dublin- www.bootcampireland.ie, www.keepfit.ie, www.fitsquad.ie and so on... very very few overheads, and they charge between 120 and 150 per person for 8 week term... for me it (the middle one listed) has been the singlemost effective way to get fit that i've ever embarked on.

doubt it would work in a smaller provincial town - small or no local parks and less people willing to fork out that sort of money

anyway, what bootcamp etc provide is just circuit classes. Which if we were to get the right premises for our gym we should be able to provide!!

Chet Zar

Wonkagirl wrote: »

You need TWO quaters of growth to be officially out of a recession. We have only had 1. We are still officially in a recession therefore, until we get a second, consecutive Quater of growth..

anyway, back to the OP- would you consider an outdoor fitness bootcamp in a local park? heaps of these running very successfully in dublin- www.bootcampireland.ie, www.keepfit.ie, www.fitsquad.ie and so on... very very few overheads, and they charge between 120 and 150 per person for 8 week term... for me it (the middle one listed) has been the singlemost effective way to get fit that i've ever embarked on.

Think you're getting mixed up there - any growth takes us out of recession, two quarters of negative growth would put us back.

OP, a boot camp could still be a good way of assessing demand so don't dismiss out of hand - your boot camp customers could easily then become your gym's customers!

Hanley

Chet Zar wrote: »

Think you're getting mixed up there - any growth takes us out of recession, two quarters of negative growth would put us back.

Yup.

Kinda glad I missed that post.

deadlybuzzman

OP just throwing this out there but as part of building up a client base particularly if you are targeting the likes of teams you could start that before you even have a premises.
I remember reading before on elitefts an article by a coach saying how he used to give a free session to school teams in their gyms-adapting that idea maybe getting/building a prowler and a few oly bars, big plates etc and then getting out there giving teams tasters-just a thought

Wonkagirl

Chet Zar wrote: »

Think you're getting mixed up there - any growth takes us out of recession, two quarters of negative growth would put us back.

OP, a boot camp could still be a good way of assessing demand so don't dismiss out of hand - your boot camp customers could easily then become your gym's customers!

Gotcha- i was indeed getting mixed up on the recession piece.. however i fear this quarter just gone will contract again with all that's gone on- but that's neither here nor there.

Beggars_bush, i wouldnt dismiss the provincial town argument regarding bootcamps- there are bootcamps in ennis and other places the same size as sligo, and all are doing very well. You would need to adjust prices accordingly i guess. There must surely be a school that would allow you use their pitch at a small nominal fee a couple of nites a week? that's where our one takes place, on the rugby pitch in st michaels. It's more than circuits, there's a lot of running- interval running, endurance running etc. I find it fantastic, it's worked for me better than the gym has hands down.. it's an 8 week programme specifically designed to target all areas of strength and fitness. I'm the fittest, slimest and strongest i've ever been, and that's after yrs of (albeit misusing) the gym.

best of luck whatever you decide.. great to see people with the balls to start their own business.

radekisner34

The best way to bring clients for your gym.Try to provide them most of the instruments which attract them to come of your gym.Advertise as much as you can and lastly keep the cost which they can afford easily.

Cole

Down to Business on Newstalk, are doing a piece on the gym/fitness sector tomorrow morning between 10-11am. I'm sure it will be of interest to the OP and others here.

http://www.newstalk.ie/2011/programmes/all-programmes/down-to-business/coming-up-on-sundays-down-to-business/#

eilo1

Hiya op,

I work part time with a supplier and would definitely advise keeping the over heads down by not getting lots of cardio and strength machines as you have mentioned. Free weights, benches, dual adjustable pulley, power rack etc definitely the way to go

Things like TRX, kettle bells, spinning, foam rollers are all really popular at the minute and still appeal to women.

Like Gem said the free money is the way to go. Limiting your membership to people who will use it, really wont make the gym any less busy.

Also you have to sell good quality nutrition, why have your members going to a specialist supplier or online when they can get it from you!

good luck with your new venture!

squod

There's four gyms here in Navan, with a population of circa 50,000. Sligo is a much larger population and realistically should support a decent well priced gym. Price is gonna be a factor in any business, gym or not. The gym I go to is well cheap for what it is and it's not too busy.

Good luck with it OP.

AntiVirus

Scuba Ste wrote: »

Sh1t gyms though, purely about the money, you'd only have to look at Dunne to know that.

Completely different to what the OP is trying to do.

They have plenty of new equipment and lots of space?? lots of everything. Maybe its just sh1t because it doesn't have what you need? I think for the price he charges he's done a great job on the amount of equipment available. List a gym that has everything that everyone wants.

For me, the Lucan gym is prefect.