Where do we stand legally re noise pollution?

Fox1978

I'm a resident living very close to the ongoing engineering work being carried out between Dun Laoghaire and Sandycove DART stations. The drilling has been incessent now for about 35 hours - some of the loudest occuring between 1am-4am this morning. We have complained several times to Iarnoid Eireann and the Gardai but with no result.

Where does this fit legally? When we spoke with an Iarnroid Eireann representative he told us he thought legally that the drilling must end at 11PM. Obviously, he was wrong. I asked the Gardai why this noise pollution was legal and they don't know. It's not emergency work - yes, it's essential, but not emergency. They should be able to stop drilling between midnight and say 6am at the very least. If I decide to do drilling in my garden during these hours you can be sure I'll be stopped, however seems there's one rule for us and one rule for these engineers.

My wife is pregnant and needs to get to the work in the morning. From a health and safety standpoint, it's unsafe for her to drive to work after only one or two hours of sleep. The noise is intolerable. Surely something can be done?

Anyone any advice on similar predicaments they've faced, why this is being allowed, and any shared experiences would be great to hear.

Losty Dublin

Fox1978 wrote: »

I'm a resident living very close to the ongoing engineering work being carried out between Dun Laoghaire and Sandycove DART stations. The drilling has been incessent now for about 35 hours - some of the loudest occuring between 1am-4am this morning. We have complained several times to Iarnoid Eireann and the Gardai but with no result.

Where does this fit legally? When we spoke with an Iarnroid Eireann representative he told us he thought legally that the drilling must end at 11PM. Obviously, he was wrong. I asked the Gardai why this noise pollution was legal and they don't know. It's not emergency work - yes, it's essential, but not emergency. They should be able to stop drilling between midnight and say 6am at the very least. If I decide to do drilling in my garden during these hours you can be sure I'll be stopped, however seems there's one rule for us and one rule for these engineers.

My wife is pregnant and needs to get to the work in the morning. From a health and safety standpoint, it's unsafe for her to drive to work after only one or two hours of sleep. The noise is intolerable. Surely something can be done?

Anyone any advice on similar predicaments they've faced, why this is being allowed, and any shared experiences would be great to hear.

Sorry to hear of your problems, man. The railway line is private property so any problems with noise would be a civil issue. There is a limited time in which to do the work and it is through concrete and granite so some late night drilling is inevitable given the short time they have to work with to get the job shorted. Working at 1AM is pushing it IMO; I'd contact the Connolly Permanent Way Inspector in the morning to clarify any issues that you have with the works

On the issue of your wife being kept awake, in fairness if she is incapable of driving safely for whatever reason then she shouldn't drive, regardless of why she is incapable/tired.

axer

There are no real noise pollution laws in Ireland - its a joke. I believe a short while back there was movement on this in that there was talk of bringing in proper laws.

Your best hope is to look at the conditions of the planning permission as there might be something in it about noise since the work is being carried out in an urban area.

Run_to_da_hills

On the Bright side, there is less than a week more of it and when its finished you will be able to travell faster and safer on this section of track.

Ear plugs are cheap.

BTW I am not too far from this work and enjoy the bit of rumble and the sound of a GM ticking over.

Fox1978

Cheers,

Thanks for the replies. Yeah we got ear-plugs. I've spoken to a couple of councillors here who hopefully will get back to me tomorrow. I've spoken to the Helpline set up to deal with this and fortunately they are actually quite decent. They claim that the noise won't be as bad tonight. I understand they need to do the work - I just think they shouldn't drill incessently between midnight and 6am, which is exactly what happened last night. Hopefully the message is getting through.

By the way, I found out the Greens drew up some noise pollution bill a few years ago but still hasn't gone through - that's typical!

shofukan

I live beside the M50 interchange with the M11/N11
They were drilling, pile driving and excavating for over a year..
A bit annoying at the time but all you can do is deal with it.

Run_to_da_hills

Fox1978 wrote: »

Cheers,

Thanks for the replies. Yeah we got ear-plugs. I've spoken to a couple of councillors here who hopefully will get back to me tomorrow. I've spoken to the Helpline set up to deal with this and fortunately they are actually quite decent. They claim that the noise won't be as bad tonight. I understand they need to do the work - I just think they shouldn't drill incessently between midnight and 6am, which is exactly what happened last night. Hopefully the message is getting through.

By the way, I found out the Greens drew up some noise pollution bill a few years ago but still hasn't gone through - that's typical!

TBH I am not too concerned about this type of noise as it is essential and short term.

I get more annoyed with idiots on our road hireing landscape contractors with their 2 stroke leaf blowers. These should be banned outright.

n97 mini

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I get more annoyed with idiots on our road hireing landscape contractors with their 2 stroke leaf blowers. These should be banned outright.

The council have a lad employed to do this 5 mornings a week out the back of our house:mad:

1. What happened to a good ole sweeping brush?
2. What have the Greens got to say about and instrument of the state using petrol to blow leaves from one place to another?

Run_to_da_hills

n97 mini wrote: »

The council have a lad employed to do this 5 mornings a week out the back of our house:mad:

1. What happened to a good ole sweeping brush?
2. What have the Greens got to say about and instrument of the state using petrol to blow leaves from one place to another?

Our next door neighbours do it to us about once a fortnight, I think nothing of revving my 750 or keeping a loud diesel Generator ticking over on a Sunday Morning. Revenge is nice.

Jehuty42

Some pictures of the work being carried out(not mine):

http://railsceneireland.fotopic.net/p68543150.html

cormie

I found this thread after my neighbour sent me two texts saying she can't sleep and wondering is it legal and can she complain. I told her not to let it bother her. We're right beside the tracks here, I've no issue with it myself, I find that rather than trying to avoid and block out any such noise, try concentrate ON the noise and you might find that you will be able to go to sleep easier. Let the beat of the drilling send you into a rhythmic slumber Also, the way I look at it, I'm sure all the workers would prefer to be wrapped up in bed at this time too, their sleep patterns must be completely messed up whereas the residents in proximity to the noise may only miss a few hours sleep. My friend hasn't text me back so she must be asleep now herself. She gets annoyed at things really easily and I knew this would keep her awake just because I know how much energy she's putting into being annoyed rather than just accepting it and getting on with it. If you change your attitude you may find it easier to sleep

AlekSmart

I think nothing of revving my 750

......Ha ha ....Tee Hee Ted....my oul BMW R65 with baffle-less pipes produces a similar sound to the complainants...sigh

What have the Greens got to say

...Crikey,don`t let them get their foot in the door at all....During the Snow I watched a fellow in a rather well preserved 1974 VW Beetle proceed serenely past a long line of sliding,slipping uncontrolable 21st Century automibles stuffed full of the latest "Green" technology.

It struck me that under the diections of the lunatic Green Coalition fringe....."the tail that waggeth the dog"...this man would be forced to scrap his perfectly operational old car...he`d even be rewarded for it....:o

More than anything else this collection of well intentioned but largely witless individuals have come to symbolize modern Ireland..."They mean well but.....:rolleyes:"

Run_to_da_hills

AlekSmart wrote: »

......Ha ha ....Tee Hee Ted....my oul BMW R65 with baffle-less pipes produces a similar sound to the complainants...sigh

My EX WD dept BSA M20 would wake the dead.

Just out of curiosity, I wonder how the OP could have managed if he lived in the area pre Dart?

I lived less than 200 yards from the tracks and spent my childhood distinguishing the different sounds between A, C and GM series locos. If he is so close to the work it would have been far worse especially by the undercutting. Southbound trains would be particularly noisy on the incline with the amplification from the walls and bridges. It is also one of the best locations in South Dublin to hear a steam loco.

BrianD

n97 mini wrote: »

The council have a lad employed to do this 5 mornings a week out the back of our house:mad:

1. What happened to a good ole sweeping brush?
2. What have the Greens got to say about and instrument of the state using petrol to blow leaves from one place to another?

That's a local government issue. There aren't that many practical non-petrol industrial blowers on the market (yet).

BrianD

AlekSmart wrote: »

......Ha ha ....Tee Hee Ted....my oul BMW R65 with baffle-less pipes produces a similar sound to the complainants...sigh

...Crikey,don`t let them get their foot in the door at all....During the Snow I watched a fellow in a rather well preserved 1974 VW Beetle proceed serenely past a long line of sliding,slipping uncontrolable 21st Century automibles stuffed full of the latest "Green" technology.

It struck me that under the diections of the lunatic Green Coalition fringe....."the tail that waggeth the dog"...this man would be forced to scrap his perfectly operational old car...he`d even be rewarded for it....:o

More than anything else this collection of well intentioned but largely witless individuals have come to symbolize modern Ireland..."They mean well but.....:rolleyes:"

This is nonsense the man would not be forced to scrap his car. He keeps it as a vintage car as he has been to date. You'd be hard pressed to get a Beetle to pass an emissions test anywhere in the developed world with or without the green party.

n97 mini

BrianD wrote: »

That's a local government issue. There aren't that many practical non-petrol industrial blowers on the market (yet).

Run_to_da_hills

n97 mini wrote: »

They wouldn't have a clue how to use one of those except for leaning on.

CIE

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

TBH I am not too concerned about this type of noise as it is essential and short term.

I get more annoyed with idiots on our road hireing landscape contractors with their 2 stroke leaf blowers. These should be banned outright.

Could be worse...they could replace them with four-stroke leaf blowers.

As far as trains go, four-stroke "prime movers" (diesel engines) are a great deal louder than two-stroke. (Anyone remember how much louder the NIR 101-class Hunslets were than CIE's EMDs and re-engined Metrovicks? English Electric Mark II four-stroke diesel.) Emissions controls laws are skewing things in favour of four-stroke traction as far as diesels go, and noise abatement for those engines will make the costs go up continually. (This is also why buses went back to using four-stroke engines after the brief flirtation with Detroit Diesel two-stroke engines in the KD class.) Of course, going further back in time, steam engines were louder yet...

Run_to_da_hills

CIE wrote: »

Could be worse...they could replace them with four-stroke leaf blowers.

As far as trains go, four-stroke "prime movers" (diesel engines) are a great deal louder than two-stroke. (Anyone remember how much louder the NIR 101-class Hunslets were than CIE's EMDs and re-engined Metrovicks? English Electric Mark II four-stroke diesel.) Emissions controls laws are skewing things in favour of four-stroke traction as far as diesels go, and noise abatement for those engines will make the costs go up continually. (This is also why buses went back to using four-stroke engines after the brief flirtation with Detroit Diesel two-stroke engines in the KD class.) Of course, going further back in time, steam engines were louder yet...

From being a biker, strokers or two stroke / "stink wheels" are a lot louder and at a higher pitched level than your average 4 stroke, more so the smaller the engine.

The sooner these things are banned the better. 2 stroke outboards were banned a few years ago and in some countries 2 stroke bikes are also banned. The only advantage of smaller landscape gardening two stroke motors over four stroke is that there is fewer moving parts, ie no mechanical valve and timing gear, they also have a higher power / weight ratio making them more useful for shoulder straps.

CIE

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

From being a biker, strokers or two stroke / "stink wheels" are a lot louder and at a higher pitched level than your average 4 stroke, more so the smaller the engine

You could be sensitive to higher pitches. The loudest bikes out there are four-stroke Harley Davidsons. Also, air-cooled engines are louder than water-cooled. Four-stroke has more "bass" than two-stroke as well, and lower frequencies tend to travel through the ground as well as the air.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The sooner these things are banned the better. 2 stroke outboards were banned a few years ago and in some countries 2 stroke bikes are also banned. The only advantage of smaller landscape gardening two stroke motors over four stroke is that there is fewer moving parts, ie no mechanical valve and timing gear, they also have a higher power / weight ratio making them more useful for shoulder straps.

Emissions controls and noise abatement for two-stroke engines (at least for vehicle applications) are just as effective as for four-stroke. Most likely no need to continue to use two-stroke motors for landscape implements though, but better noise abatement would certainly do the trick.

Back to the original topic subject, which is the (prematurely failed?) block-sleeper rail fastening through Dun Laoghaire and Sandycove: maybe they ought to go back to ballasted track? because it'll certainly mean a lot quieter maintenance in both short and long run, as well as quieter train operation as far as wheel noise.

Judgement Day

CIE wrote: »

You could be sensitive to higher pitches. The loudest bikes out there are four-stroke Harley Davidsons. Also, air-cooled engines are louder than water-cooled. Four-stroke has more "bass" than two-stroke as well, and lower frequencies tend to travel through the ground as well as the air.Emissions controls and noise abatement for two-stroke engines (at least for vehicle applications) are just as effective as for four-stroke. Most likely no need to continue to use two-stroke motors for landscape implements though, but better noise abatement would certainly do the trick.

Back to the original topic subject, which is the (prematurely failed?) block-sleeper rail fastening through Dun Laoghaire and Sandycove: maybe they ought to go back to ballasted track? because it'll certainly mean a lot quieter maintenance in both short and long run, as well as quieter train operation as far as wheel noise.

I thought that was what is being done - conventional rails, sleepers and ballast replacing slab track?

CIE

Judgement Day wrote: »

I thought that was what is being done - conventional rails, sleepers and ballast replacing slab track?

I wasn't aware of the specifics. If so, then putting in the slabs was a waste, especially (as per the implication) if it was to mitigate water accumulation. The track was ballasted originally.

Run_to_da_hills

CIE wrote: »

You could be sensitive to higher pitches. The loudest bikes out there are four-stroke Harley Davidsons. Also, air-cooled engines are louder than water-cooled. Four-stroke has more "bass" than two-stroke as well, and lower frequencies tend to travel through the ground as well as the air.Emissions controls and noise abatement for two-stroke engines (at least for vehicle applications) are just as effective as for four-stroke. Most likely no need to continue to use two-stroke motors for landscape implements though, but better noise abatement would certainly do the trick.

Give me the sound of Harley over any stroker, Some earlier large two stroke bikes sounded sweet like the Kawasaki KH750 triples and Suzuki Kettles.

People also forget to check the oil in two strokes, my ex works in a plant hire shop and regularly has to rebuild con saws and strimmers that have seised.

monument

n97 mini wrote: »

Those can be next to useless outside (in the wet, on anything other than smooth surfaces, trying to clear engrained dirt etc). This type of head is more useful for street / yard use:

Run_to_da_hills

monument wrote: »

Those can be next to useless outside (in the wet, on anything other than smooth surfaces, trying to clear engrained dirt etc). This type of head is more useful for street / yard use:

I have seen a guy sweeping the platform at Killiney Dart station with a fcuking broom, maybe he should have been working at Broombridge. :pac:.

CIE

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Give me the sound of Harley over any stroker, Some earlier large two stroke bikes sounded sweet like the Kawasaki KH750 triples and Suzuki Kettles.

I'm in accord with that sentiment.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

People also forget to check the oil in two strokes, my ex works in a plant hire shop and regularly has to rebuild con saws and strimmers that have seized.

My preference with such implements is for four-stroke as well, if only for non-duplication of materials; kind of handy to use the same oil for your car as for trimmers, blowers, lawnmowers and so on.

karl75

from what ive heard their behind in what their doing and looks like it wont be finished b4 tuesday thats when the **** hits the fan

Losty Dublin

karl75 wrote: »

from what ive heard their behind in what their doing and looks like it wont be finished b4 tuesday thats when the **** hits the fan

Wanna bet?

http://www.irishrail.ie/news_centre/news.asp?action=view&news_id=986

Major infrastructural works, which took place between Dun Laoghaire and Sandycove/Glasthule Station over the holiday period is now being completed and full services will resume from 1st services tomorrow morning, Tuesday 4th January. All DART services will operate fully and Rosslare Intercity and Gorey/Arklow Commuter services will also operate fully.

The infrastrucuture works involved the renewal of track between Dun Laoghaire and Sandycove/Glasthule Station. Iarnród Éireann apologises for any inconvenience these essential works caused.