Mosin Nagant 91/30

bazza888

just wondering would a rifle such asthe Mosin Nagant 91/30 be restricted?its Calibre is 7.62 x 54R

It wasn't me!

No, not restricted.

bazza888

asked about a .303 lee enfield on here before think people said it was restricted? i cant find the thread

It wasn't me!

bazza888 wrote: »

asked about a .303 lee enfield on here before think people said it was restricted? i cant find the thread

It's not. The Gardai are happy to work with the number stamped on the barrel rather than the widest bore diameter.

bazza888

cool,many lads using them out there?

gunhappy_ie

bazza888 wrote: »

cool,many lads using them out there?

Few lads in the VCRAI shoot them. Great rifle !

bazza888

where do they shoot?midlands?where would you buy one of these rifles iv never seen any in a gunshop apart from 1

gunhappy_ie

bazza888 wrote: »

where do they shoot?midlands?where would you buy one of these rifles iv never seen any in a gunshop apart from 1

There are sever comps on through out the year in different ranges. Log onto www.VCRAI.com for more info


John at fingal sports http://www.fingalsports.com/ specalises in the area of classics as well as being a gent to deal with. you wont go far wrong contacting him

Tell him I sent you :P

gunhappy_ie

I believe this is the page your looking for

http://www.fingalsports.com/classic.html

Limited number of the Mosin Nagant 91/30 Rifles dated between 1934 -1943. Calibre 7.62 x 54R.
These rifles are in very good condition. All numbers matching. Markings on the rifles indicate that they where manufactured in the Tula factory.
Bores are clean and crisp.

Mosin Nagant Rifle €385.00
Photo for illusitartion purposes only
Actual rifle may differ in colour
Contact us classic_rifles@fingalsports
Scope / Mounts


Orinigal PU3.5 Scope/Mount with lens covers: €265.00

bazza888

what i mean is do you just join vcrai?or would you u have join midlands?

gunhappy_ie

bazza888 wrote: »

what i mean is do you just join vcrai?or would you u have join midlands?

No, as far as im aware you will also need to be a member of an authorised range as the VCRAI is an association of like minded members from different ranges who meet up to shoot there clasic rifles.

Even if you didnt need to be a member or a range I would reccomend it as youll still want somewhere to practice, zero and meet up with other shooters other than the classic rifle shoots.

bazza888

i am a member of a range but you couldnt fire that there,i was just wondering how it works with the vcrai and were the rifles restricted

bunny shooter

Hi Baz,

The lads have all the bases covered before me :cool:

I shoot a NO.4, MK1, 1941, Long Branch, Lee Enfield, in .303", supplied by John at Fingal Sports.

It's not a restricted licence.

I'm also a member of VCRAI.

Classic rifle shooting is a great discipline and I love it

gunhappy_ie

bazza888 wrote: »

i am a member of a range but you couldnt fire that there,i was just wondering how it works with the vcrai and were the rifles restricted

Funny you hould mention that :):):):)

Im not too sure about the Mosin nagant but enfields can be got in .22 as well.

I from chattin to the lads if there were enough classic .22 owners in the club they would be interested in starting a .22 comp. Id even buy a .22 for that !

bazza888

i asked john about that as its what i was originally interested in getting but he said they are hard to find in good condition and any hes got before have been very expensive

gunhappy_ie

bazza888 wrote: »

i asked john about that as its what i was originally interested in getting but he said they are hard to find in good condition and any hes got before have been very expensive

Did he say how much ???

If there not in great condition but you can get 1 for peanuts it could be worth your while having it reconditioned ( if you really wanted it but didnt want to change range)

bazza888

i cant remember how much he said now,ill have to have a look round and chat with people at the club see if any of them are in vcrai

bunny shooter

The only Enfield I heard of in .22lr was €1000 and that was a few years ago :eek: Would love one myself :cool:

gunhappy_ie

bunny shooter wrote: »

The only Enfield I heard of in .22lr was €1000 and that was a few years ago :eek: Would love one myself :cool:

Really sorry that i cant remember the site that i saw it on (yes american) in the last week but a guy put up pics of a .22 bolt head and extactor ( for those that dont know the lee enfield .303 bolt head actually screws off) that he picekd up for a song.

He did mention that the 2 piece firing pin was missing (possible because it was off center)

It could be possible for a dealer to buy as cheap as possible .303 recievers and convert them (if there was enough interest) to .22 (a new barrel could be easily sourced) if a a full conversion kit was available.

bazza888

john said something along those lines about getting a 303 and boring it out and sleeving it in .22,anyone on here have one in 22?

gunhappy_ie

bazza888 wrote: »

john said something along those lines about getting a 303 and boring it out and sleeving it in .22,anyone on here have one in 22?

IME the best way to get the mose out of a conversion would be to have the full kit.


The H&K G3, FN FAL and to some extent AR platform rifles are simular.

In the case of the G3 and FAL (being 7.62 and having a design that an insert could be places into the barrel) the bold was removed and an insert placed into the barrel, the bolt was and magazine was replaced with a dedicated .22 conversion part.

an example for the G3 series rifle is... http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK-German-G3-22-caliber-Conversion-Kit-B-Grade-9p1147.htm


If it doesnt make sense, the long sleve sits into the barrel, the bolf carrier is replaced with a dedicated .22 carried as well as the magazine. In total ive a mate saying that it takes him 1-2 minutes to convert it over.


Fortunatly/Unfottunatly I have a G3 licenced here, but the kits themselves would be classed as a firearm so a seperate (restricted because of the high mag capacity) licence would be required.

In the case of a .303, if a kit could be sourced it would be easy to have a barrel manufacturer duplicate the barrel in .22 (send them off the blank and tell them what you want.

Mr.Flibble

http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3107108

rowa

what about the norinco jw 25 , i seen one somewhere just can't remember where , its a copy of the training rifle as used by the germans in the 30's and can be had for very little.

http://www.marstar.ca/gf-norinco/22-JW-25A.shtm

they're supposed to be ok and for such a small price it does the job as an interesting plinker.

gunhappy_ie

Mr.Flibble wrote: »

http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3107108

Cool, Currently 550 euro !!

rowa wrote: »

what about the norinco jw 25 , i seen one somewhere just can't remember where , its a copy of the training rifle as used by the germans in the 30's and can be had for very little.

http://www.marstar.ca/gf-norinco/22-JW-25A.shtm

they're supposed to be ok and for such a small price it does the job as an interesting plinker.

The Norinco stuff if be weary of. There M14S (advertised above the .22)can be bought for under €800 in europe. They are (as i was thinking of getting 1 I red up alot bout them) sh!te !

There ammo is supposed to be very good though !

Manic Moran

Anyone considering a Mosin must read the following comparison between the Mosin, the AK and the AR.

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinHumor.htm

Buddy of mine christened his new M-N last weekend. The comment about the 2x4 is accurate. (Actually, most of them are).

[Edit] Come to think of it, I wonder if the M-N doesn't pose an interesting problem. Some (eg M44s) were designed and sighted to be fired with the bayonet mounted in position. Does that pose any particular issues?]

NTM

bazza888

thats a good one manic!

Savage93

I remember firing .22 Lee Enfields in the FCA in 1978, all dumped off the Cork coast, what a waste!!
Also remember packing up NO4 Mk I and MkIIs to go to Dublin, I believe the best of them went to the states for £10 each, saw 10 rifles still wrapped and in cosmoline, these are now making over $1,000 each in the states, unfired, again what a waste, the best went to the States and Canada to dealers and thousands went to a watery grave off the Cork coast, the best of these were made in Fazakerly in the early '50s, great rifles.

bazza888

yes iv heard that before!i was reading up about them found a site from newzealand whee they wee going to dump and scrap all the .22 tainers there cadet force had,the rifle associations all lobbied the government and they sold them to the public then instead!

bazza888

found link its nea the end of the page
http://www.rifleman.org.uk/Enfield_Rifle_No.8.html

Savage93

How's this for semi auto me arse, you'll notice he is using his middle finger on the trigger allowing thumb and first finger to operate the bolt, in WW1 the Germans initially thought they were up against many more machine guns that the brits had because of their "mad minute" training

Savage93

Savage93 wrote: »

How's this for semi auto me arse, you'll notice he is using his middle finger on the trigger allowing thumb and first finger to operate the bolt, in WW1 the Germans initially thought they were up against many more machine guns that the brits had because of their "mad minute" training

OOOPPS here's the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HV5pSUlBz18&feature=related

Manic Moran

Savage93 wrote: »

How's this for semi auto me arse, you'll notice he is using his middle finger on the trigger allowing thumb and first finger to operate the bolt, in WW1 the Germans initially thought they were up against many more machine guns that the brits had because of their "mad minute" training

Took a crack at it last weekend with a friend and a stopwatch. Took me 20 seconds for ten aimed shots, which isn't too bad for a bolt-action (Using middle finger). Beat the heck out of my buddy with his Mosin, though in fairness, he had enough difficulty just working the bolt, before worrying about things like where the bolt is in relation to the trigger.

Apparently the record is 37 shots in one minute into a 36" target at 300m. That's hard enough for me to do with an M4.

How's this for semi auto me arse, you'll notice he is using his middle finger on the trigger allowing thumb and first finger to operate the bolt,

No, he's not. He's taking his index finger away from the bolt and using it on the trigger. With middle finger usage of the trigger, there is no need to let go of the bolt at all.

This guy is doing it correctly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oh_Dty4TlI

NTM

FISMA

Bazza,
If you can get the Enfield do so. Even if you have to wait a year or two and jump through hoops.

There is no comparison between the Nagant's and Enfields. Despite my love of all firearms German (like K98's) I have to give the edge to the Brits when it came to the best bolt action of WWII.

I would recommend a No4 Mk1 - a Long Branch if possible.

There's just no comparison between the two. The Enfield is a quantum leap ahead of the Nagant.

Where can you even get Nagant ammo that's not corrosive?

If you have a chance, have a look at the bolt on the Nagant - kind of scary looking.

The fit and finish is just what you expect from the commies. You know your rifle is original when they varnished over the blueing.

I am looking to buy an Enfield, however, I want one that is either new or unissued. That's a bit hard to come by these days. There's a few out there from the Irish Contract - the one that was delivered and the one that was not.

They seem to be in fair nick, but are getting pricey.

Manic Moran

I'll give the Enfield this much, compared to my semi-autos. There ain't a whole hell of a lot to cleaning it.

NTM

FISMA

Bazza,
I don't know if I would pay €385.00for the Finish version. I do know there's no way I would pay it for the standard Russian firearm.

These firearms go for under $100 in the States - here's a re-arsenalled for $69.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?groupid=90&name=Russian+1891%2f30+7.62x54R+Mosin+Nagant+Rifles

In the States, many people can just walk into their local dealer and pay $69 and walk out with the rifle. At that cost and with that ease I would say go ahead and pick one or two up. But at this price and the number of hoops you have to jump through - forget it.

A lot of people bad mouth them, including me. However, for close up shots I had no problem hitting targets at 100ya.

Again, have a look at the above image and check out the bolt. It's your eyes and face that will behind the bolt, so if you trust it, fire away. However, for me, the engineering behind this bolt was not something I was willing to bet my life on.

I just checked the site again. They have the K31?!?!?! That is a tack driver. If you can get one of these, forget the Nagant. The K31 is a quantum leap over the Nagant.

Also, the K98 Mauser?!?! Another great gun. Choosing the K98, K31, or Enfield you get more that ten times the gun at maybe twice the price.

bazza888

yes i see what you mean fisma,idont think id go for a nagant anyway!i really like the enfields,there history and look and how good people say they are!ill have have wait afew mths before i apply again for a license anyway,just put in one for a new .22!

cruisedub1

FISMA wrote: »

Bazza,
I don't know if I would pay €385.00for the Finish version. I do know there's no way I would pay it for the standard Russian firearm.

These firearms go for under $100 in the States - here's a re-arsenalled for $69.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?groupid=90&name=Russian+1891%2f30+7.62x54R+Mosin+Nagant+Rifles

In the States, many people can just walk into their local dealer and pay $69 and walk out with the rifle. At that cost and with that ease I would say go ahead and pick one or two up. But at this price and the number of hoops you have to jump through - forget it.

A lot of people bad mouth them, including me. However, for close up shots I had no problem hitting targets at 100ya.

Again, have a look at the above image and check out the bolt. It's your eyes and face that will behind the bolt, so if you trust it, fire away. However, for me, the engineering behind this bolt was not something I was willing to bet my life on.

I just checked the site again. They have the K31?!?!?! That is a tack driver. If you can get one of these, forget the Nagant. The K31 is a quantum leap over the Nagant.

Also, the K98 Mauser?!?! Another great gun. Choosing the K98, K31, or Enfield you get more that ten times the gun at maybe twice the price.

Any sale through a dealer requires a background check , some states have an instant background check other states have a mandated waiting period up to ten buisness days . Only C & R sales face to face can be made without a background check so you cant just " walk into a dealer ,buy a firearm and walk out with it " .

gunhappy_ie

FISMA wrote: »

Bazza,
I don't know if I would pay €385.00for the Finish version. I do know there's no way I would pay it for the standard Russian firearm.

These firearms go for under $100 in the States - here's a re-arsenalled for $69.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?groupid=90&name=Russian+1891%2f30+7.62x54R+Mosin+Nagant+Rifles

In the States, many people can just walk into their local dealer and pay $69 and walk out with the rifle. At that cost and with that ease I would say go ahead and pick one or two up. But at this price and the number of hoops you have to jump through - forget it.

A lot of people bad mouth them, including me. However, for close up shots I had no problem hitting targets at 100ya.

Again, have a look at the above image and check out the bolt. It's your eyes and face that will behind the bolt, so if you trust it, fire away. However, for me, the engineering behind this bolt was not something I was willing to bet my life on.

I just checked the site again. They have the K31?!?!?! That is a tack driver. If you can get one of these, forget the Nagant. The K31 is a quantum leap over the Nagant.

Also, the K98 Mauser?!?! Another great gun. Choosing the K98, K31, or Enfield you get more that ten times the gun at maybe twice the price.

cruisedub1 wrote: »

Any sale through a dealer requires a background check , some states have an instant background check other states have a mandated waiting period up to ten buisness days . Only C & R sales face to face can be made without a background check so you cant just " walk into a dealer ,buy a firearm and walk out with it " .

I think that while this thread has evolved from irs origional it is now going off in a tangent.

While the firearms laws and cost comparison in the US are of interest to some perhaps it should be adressed in another thread.

Back on track,

If the OP is interested in a classic rifle then there are several fine examples in the market today. Sure enough each has its own quirk, some are of better quality than others (its to be expected for firearms from certain eras in history) but they all have history.

Back to the restricted/non restricted question....

up to and including .308 is non restricted so (most popular out there) Enfields, Mosin Nagant, K31, MAS 36 Springfield 1903 etc

above .308 is restricted and includes K98, and any semi automatic rifle eg G43, M1, SAFN-49 etc

gunhappy_ie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2M1hC4c0tc&feature=grec_index


Mosin nagant at 1000 yards

firefly08

Where can you even get Nagant ammo that's not corrosive?

There is plenty of that available - and although I must admit I have no idea if anyone stocks it in Ireland, I don't see any reason why dealers couldn't order it for you. S & B, Prvi Partzan and Wolf all make non-corrosive 7.62x54R. Also bear in mind that the corrosive surplus ammo is cheap.

Having said that, I'd agree with everything you've said about the Lee Enfield - it's a much nicer rifle than the Nagant, even the Finnish Nagant, which is supposedly the best. I would sell mine and get a Lee Enfield or a K31 in a heartbeat if there was cheap surplus ammo available for either of those rifles. In fact I might do it anyway.

bazza888

talking of .22 enfields,what other old 22 rifles could you get of that vintage that are fun to shoot and accurate etc

Kryten

Just love the old BSA Martini!!!!

bazza888

have you got one?they are mad looking!where would you get something like that here?

bunny shooter

Kryten wrote: »

Just love the old BSA Martini!!!!

I knew I should have kept her

bunny shooter

bazza888 wrote: »

have you got one?they are mad looking!where would you get something like that here?

He has one..............he got it at the right price too

Jim Griffen has a few I believe

bazza888

where would you get one and what would the cost be like!very expensive im guessing!

bunny shooter

These BSA Martinis go for very SMALL money. €150 - €200 would get you an outstanding example

bazza888

are they a good rifle?why did you get rid of your one?

bunny shooter

bazza888 wrote: »

are they a good rifle?why did you get rid of your one?

From what I've seen of 'em they are very accurate. Bit heavy for hunting. I bought it for some .22 benchrest/prone shooting but I got a .22 pistol instead. Still think I made a mistake

Intershoot on here would be worth a chat with if you want one

blackpowder

hello can anyone please give some advice in getting a classic rifle here in ireland? is it only just the lee enfield versions and the moisin nagant on the market here is importation a long and ardious track for bigger caliber rifles i seen some pretty nice rifles in henry kranks around the 500 hundred stirling mark ( baby rolling block carbine in 357 mag ) is this a huge caliber? does any one shoot martini henry or sniders ect . in ireland thanks for all the information is ammo expensive? :cool:

rowa

bunny shooter wrote: »

These BSA Martinis go for very SMALL money. €150 - €200 would get you an outstanding example

maybe, but the prices have been creeping up steadily,especially the bsa internationals , the americans love them for bench rest and fultons in bisley camp in england have been buying them up and exporting them to the states for a good while now.