re power showers

mbr2009

i know that power showers take the hot water from cylinder and mix with cold water and pump it out, but do they also need an electricity source?
bought a new house with one shower wired for electric shower. other three showers have just one hot one cold pipe, am worried that simple mixer showers will not be powerful enough. there are 2 upstairs and one downstairs, the downstairs one may be ok because of gravity, am i right??

Sparkpea

yes they need a power source but a wire from a socket or even lights may be enough - needs nothing like the power for an electric shower


yes downstairs should be ok as its gravity and the pressure will be greater.

Joey the lips

Why not fit a pump in the hot press...

As reasonable as a shower pricewise and easier to conceal the wiring....

Buford T Justice

Joey the lips wrote: »

Why not fit a pump in the hot press...

As reasonable as a shower pricewise and easier to conceal the wiring....

Plus, if its plumbed right, you can use the same pump for all of the showers in the house.

beanie10

Sparkpea wrote: »

yes they need a power source but a wire from a socket or even lights may be enough - needs nothing like the power for an electric shower


yes downstairs should be ok as its gravity and the pressure will be greater.

Wire a pump shower off lighting circuit?? Surely a pump shower should have RCD protection?

Sparkpea

beanie10 wrote: »

Wire a pump shower off lighting circuit?? Surely a pump shower should have RCD protection?

I dont do the wiring but i've seen plenty wired from lights to a fused spare just

Buford T Justice

Sparkpea wrote: »

I dont do the wiring but i've seen plenty wired from lights to a fused spare just

I'd say to be safe to have RCD protection on the shower circuit regardless of the load, since its in a water area, but you can check with the guys in electrical, they'll steer you right.

Bruthal

Fingers McGee wrote: »

I'd say to be safe to have RCD protection on the shower circuit regardless of the load, since its in a water area, but you can check with the guys in electrical, they'll steer you right.

Yes it should have an RCD on it, the load would have nothing to do with the RCD reqirement, if the pump is in the hot press a spur could probably be fed from the immersion circuit, but the ideal would be a circuit back to the mcb board. Definitely not from a lighting circuit anyway as they have no RCD, the bathroom light could possibly have an RCD on newly wired houses, but then the bathroom would be in darkness if the pump tripped its RCD/RCBO.

jenggg

Apologies for hijacking this thread but if you had a choice of an electric or power shower which would you choose? It would be the only shower in the house...

Sparkpea

if its going to be used often then electric

if you only have a standard size hot tank (36") and theres only 2 in the house then u should get away with a power shower

power showers are nice to have but u need lots of hot water for them

electric showers are good, especially in the summer when ur heat isn't on as it heats the water instantly but in winter u have hot water and then are using electric for ur shower.. so my dad uses a shower off his bath taps in winter and electric shower in summer

Bruthal

jenggg wrote: »

Apologies for hijacking this thread but if you had a choice of an electric or power shower which would you choose? It would be the only shower in the house...

The ideal setup would be to have both. The power shower needs water heated already where as the electric one heats it as its used. The power shower would have a higher flow rate as the water is already pre heated, where as because the electric shower heats it as its flowing, there are limitations to the flow rate, and the colder the water in the first place the lower the flow rate to get the same temperature output.

So there are advantages and disadvantages on both sides.
I think the electric shower is cheaper to buy and have installed also. Overall the power shower has the better flow output because of the pre heated water etc. Im sure there may be other opinions on it all. This one has come up a few times befere into big debates.

Joey the lips

jenggg wrote: »

Apologies for hijacking this thread but if you had a choice of an electric or power shower which would you choose? It would be the only shower in the house...

In my opinion showers should be picked by demand.

In a house with 2 adults a power shower will suffice. However in a house with Kids especially teenage girls a Power shower will never do. In fact only an electric or pumped electric shower will do.

If i were picking based on no issues i would pick a power shower however Triton T90's and Mira Elites are not the best selling showers just because of snappy marketing its because they are most suitable for purpose.

What is your family circumstances... ie Partner/Kids age of kids boys girls etc.

beanie10

Is that chat up line????

beanie10

Joey the lips wrote: »

In my opinion showers should be picked by demand.

In a house with 2 adults a power shower will suffice. However in a house with Kids especially teenage girls a Power shower will never do. In fact only an electric or pumped electric shower will do.

If i were picking based on no issues i would pick a power shower however Triton T90's and Mira Elites are not the best selling showers just because of snappy marketing its because they are most suitable for purpose.

What is your family circumstances... ie Partner/Kids age of kids boys girls etc.

Is that a chat up line?????

TANGLEWOOD

Hi,

Just wondering about adding a pump to a shower. I had a plumber around and he said he wouldn't add a pump to the shower as they were plastic fittings and the pump could blow them and I wouldn't know if water was leaking behind tiles etc!!! He Suggested putting in a new shower with an integrated pump. Does anyone know if installing a pump to the shower could blow plastic fittings???

Thanks.

Sparkpea

TANGLEWOOD wrote: »

Hi,

Just wondering about adding a pump to a shower. I had a plumber around and he said he wouldn't add a pump to the shower as they were plastic fittings and the pump could blow them and I wouldn't know if water was leaking behind tiles etc!!! He Suggested putting in a new shower with an integrated pump. Does anyone know if installing a pump to the shower could blow plastic fittings???

Thanks.

the answer you are looking for is very unlikely. yes like everything a fitting could blow off but that could happen whether u have a pump or not and could even happen on the new shower u get fitted. you cant say one way or another that this will happen but it is highly unlikely, there are hundreds of thousands of people with powershowers either integrated or separate pump and they are running fine whether it be done in plastic or copper. make sure the pump is not oversized, 1bar should be ample for just one shower, or if your going to pump all the hot/cold water then a house pump is better. plastic fittings have a blow off point at 10bar I think the manufactures claim.

Joey the lips

TANGLEWOOD wrote: »

Hi,

Just wondering about adding a pump to a shower. I had a plumber around and he said he wouldn't add a pump to the shower as they were plastic fittings and the pump could blow them and I wouldn't know if water was leaking behind tiles etc!!! He Suggested putting in a new shower with an integrated pump. Does anyone know if installing a pump to the shower could blow plastic fittings???

Thanks.

To an existing shower? or to a new shower? Its a little unclear what you mean.

A pump can be added to a system but it depends on whats there.

Can you explain your current situation more. Perhaps provide a photo

BigRed32

TANGLEWOOD wrote: »

Hi,

Just wondering about adding a pump to a shower. I had a plumber around and he said he wouldn't add a pump to the shower as they were plastic fittings and the pump could blow them and I wouldn't know if water was leaking behind tiles etc!!! He Suggested putting in a new shower with an integrated pump. Does anyone know if installing a pump to the shower could blow plastic fittings???

Thanks.

It is unlikely that a pump would blow the fittings, but not guarenteed. And it is always better to err on the side of caution. What you could do is pressurise the domestic hot water system.

TANGLEWOOD

Thanks guys for all your help.

It is an existing shower. It is a fixed head shower. I don't know the manufacturer of the shower and I don't even know if there are plastic fittings. It was the shower guy I got around about putting a pump onto the shower who said that they are probably plastics fittings and a pump could blow the fittings and cause a leak which I wouldn't be aware of until the damage was done and to put a mira pump shower and that way it be safer but it cost around €600.00 which is expensive!!!


@ Joey the Lips, I have tried to attach a photo but not sure how to do it but hopefully it is there in the attachments button!!!!

All your advice is very welcome. Trying to keep the expense down as much as possible.

Thanks.

Joey the lips

TANGLEWOOD wrote: »

Thanks guys for all your help.

It is an existing shower. It is a fixed head shower. I don't know the manufacturer of the shower and I don't even know if there are plastic fittings. It was the shower guy I got around about putting a pump onto the shower who said that they are probably plastics fittings and a pump could blow the fittings and cause a leak which I wouldn't be aware of until the damage was done and to put a mira pump shower and that way it be safer but it cost around €600.00 which is expensive!!!


@ Joey the Lips, I have tried to attach a photo but not sure how to do it but hopefully it is there in the attachments button!!!!

All your advice is very welcome. Trying to keep the expense down as much as possible.

Thanks.

I cannot see any reason why a pump cannot be attached to that shower. Get another plumber to give you an opinion. Dont mention what the other said till the end.

TANGLEWOOD

Sorry to sound totally ignorant bout the shower scenario. I presumed that the plumber was referring plastic parts supplied with the shower itself as there is copper piping!!! This guy supplies and fits shower units!!! Just want to make sure I am not being done. If I can get away with putting a pump in I reckon it would be cheaper than 600 euro but also don't want to end with house the house being flooded!!!!!

As a matter interest, what make of pump would anyone recommend and what kind of price are they?

Thanks again guys for your help.

TANGLEWOOD

Thanks Joey. I had another thought!! There are three settings in the shower head. When I put it to one of the settings it is quite powerful but the spray in that setting is too narrow (if that makes sense) and I was wondering would a new shower head solve the problem. The water pressure is good in the house as there is a pump on the water system in the estate!!! The tank is directly over the shower. Any views?

Bruthal

TANGLEWOOD wrote: »

Thanks Joey. I had another thought!! There are three settings in the shower head. When I put it to one of the settings it is quite powerful but the spray in that setting is too narrow (if that makes sense) and I was wondering would a new shower head solve the problem. The water pressure is good in the house as there is a pump on the water system in the estate!!! The tank is directly over the shower. Any views?

That setting usually has bigger holes in the centre of the head while the other more wide spray settings have smaller holes but more of them, they could be partly blocked with limescale, so-descaling the shower head might help it. Did it work well before?

TANGLEWOOD

Thanks Robbie. It is the same pressure as always. I believe Argos have a 1.5 bar pump for about 140 euro. Anyone know of anybody who has used this pump and if it is reliable?

Joey the lips

You wont need a new shower head and again a 1.5 bar pump should not do any damage. I would be brave enough to say it wont only i cannot see all your plumbing. Your head has 3 setting because it is a multimode. It is the best type you can get, Dont go changing it.

Stuart turner or monsoon is the most popular. I like salamander...outside that the choice is yours. A pump will set you back about 500 euro for supply and fit propperly.

The argos pump.... If it were a car it would be a fiat.... Its ok but i would rather have a volkswagan(monsoon) however if my budget is a fiat then so be it.

You can always buy a Skoda(stuart turner-monsoon copy) off the internet however you wont have the techanical support of modern plant to go with it.

Ronin247

TANGLEWOOD wrote: »

Hi,

Just wondering about adding a pump to a shower. I had a plumber around and he said he wouldn't add a pump to the shower as they were plastic fittings and the pump could blow them and I wouldn't know if water was leaking behind tiles etc!!! He Suggested putting in a new shower with an integrated pump. Does anyone know if installing a pump to the shower could blow plastic fittings???

Thanks.

Yes it can.I am taking a leap here but the plumber is talking about a remote pressure activated pump.I figure your house is done in qualpex pipe and if the plastic joints (fittings)are the push type there is a danger of a joint popping.If that did happen the pump would just keep pumping water to the leak!!

Bruthal

Ronin247 wrote: »

Yes it can.I am taking a leap here but the plumber is talking about a remote pressure activated pump.I figure your house is done in qualpex pipe and if the plastic joints (fittings)are the push type there is a danger of a joint popping.If that did happen the pump would just keep pumping water to the leak!!

It might be a flow switch operated pump for the shower, id say them push on fittings can take a fair bit of pressure too.

Think i might put one in myself too, i have a t90, and a gravity fed shower as well.

Ronin247

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055767809


Check post 14. Not the only time I heard of this happening.Now put a pump into the circuit and you have a major mess.There is one particular type of pushfit that most plumbers hate for this reason.I will find out which make/brand if I can tomorrow.

Bruthal

Ronin247 wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055767809


Check post 14. Not the only time I heard of this happening.Now put a pump into the circuit and you have a major mess.There is one particular type of pushfit that most plumbers hate for this reason.I will find out which make/brand if I can tomorrow.

Interesting that, i never used anything except compression fittings and inserts myself in the small amount of plumbing i would do, not since using the acorn stuff in the 80`s anyway, but had not really heard of the push in ones failing before this.

Ronin247

I do minimal plumbing myself if I can avoid it.Just reading back through Tanglewoods posts and he says it is copper piping so I would hope that isnt done with plastic push fits!!Knocks my qualpex theory out though.

Sparkpea

are qualpex fittings like speedfit (removable)? pull the ring back and it slips off? if so.. this is the reason speedfit brought out surclips years ago to stop them being pulled at or now their newer fittings have a twist lock. tho I still prefer polyplumb where its a metal grip ring and not removable easily.

TANGLEWOOD

Hi Guys,

I am getting a little lost on the technical side of things mentioned in previous posts. I am thinking of going with a 1.5 bar pump and hopefully there will be no disasters. As mentioned I do have copper piping and I take it this means less of chance of leaks as opposed to the other type piping???!!!

I was thinking of Grundfos Pump as Monsoon pumps reallys expensive. Any views on Grundfos Pump. It is only for one shower.

Sparkpea

I know the old saying is you get what you pay for but with pumps its truely the case.

Salamander = brilliant but expensive & have lots of silly overkill regulations to follow

Stuart Turner/Monsoon = cheaper, good quality base pump without the regulations

Aqualisa used to do a pump I used now and again, they've since changed them and I've not used the newer ones but normally anything Aqualisa put their name to is pretty good! http://www.aqualisa.co.uk/Trade/our-products/Browse-showers-by-range/Mach-Pumps/ 1.2bar pump would do you well, price it maybe!

Only other pumps i've worked with are Newteam. I've not bought one for a client myself but if a client supplied it then I would install it. I think they are like a b&q pump. Cheap and cheerful like most things in b&q or argos. Do the job needed but without much guarantees to be long lasting and good performance over the years.

TANGLEWOOD

Thank you. I'll check out price of the Stuart Turner/Monsoon pump. Grundfos was quoted as 165.00. How much more do you think above pump would be?

Joey the lips

Sparkpea wrote: »

I know the old saying is you get what you pay for but with pumps its truely the case.

Salamander = brilliant but expensive & have lots of silly overkill regulations to follow

Stuart Turner/Monsoon = cheaper, good quality base pump without the regulations

Aqualisa used to do a pump I used now and again, they've since changed them and I've not used the newer ones but normally anything Aqualisa put their name to is pretty good! http://www.aqualisa.co.uk/Trade/our-products/Browse-showers-by-range/Mach-Pumps/ 1.2bar pump would do you well, price it maybe!

Only other pumps i've worked with are Newteam. I've not bought one for a client myself but if a client supplied it then I would install it. I think they are like a b&q pump. Cheap and cheerful like most things in b&q or argos. Do the job needed but without much guarantees to be long lasting and good performance over the years.

stuart turner and monsoon is controlled by modern plant down here. Arrogant attitude to probelms but brilliant repair and techanical service should you need it. But you need to buy the pump from there agents so you pay extra. Aqualisa is controlled by MT agencies down here. Again brilliant pump.

TANGLEWOOD wrote: »

Thank you. I'll check out price of the Stuart Turner/Monsoon pump. Grundfos was quoted as 165.00. How much more do you think above pump would be?

Grundfos is now marketing and controlling salamander its there cheap pump. With due respect you get what you pay for. Either buy a fiat or by a volkswagan. The choice is yours.

TANGLEWOOD

Thanks everyone for your advice. Just need to price everything now.