Hot water not working

Slaacer

We have no hot water in any of the taps in the house. The cold water is fine and the tank upstairs in full. We've tried running the cold water in to the hot water system to try and unblock what we think is an airlock after water restrictions we've had recently. However, this has not worked. Any advice would be great. We've two kids (one a baby) and really need hot water. Thanks

bbam

Running the cold water from the tank (sink in bath or bathroom sink) into the hot water is unlikely to shift an airlock as they are virtually the same pressure as both rely on the storage tank in the loft for their pressure...

Best thing would be to connect the mains water from kitchen the sink to a hot water tap and use this to blow back into the cylinder/tank. The mains water will be at much greater pressure and should shift the airlock easily.

Slaacer

thanks for your response. I think the water in the kitchen sink comes straight from the main which also feed the dishwasher and washing machine. Hence why I done the my test with the kitchen sink.

Basically what I did was to block the tap with a hand towel (water is absolutely freezing) and open the hot tab first then the cold hoping to push the airlock back into the tank.

Was that what you recommend ? did what I do use the pressure from the main ?

Sparkpea

do what u did but without the towel, u need to use your hand and hold it as tight as possible so no water escapes. open hot first, then open cold, try hold it for at least 60sec, turn off cold, then let go of hand leaving hot open to hopefully spurt and gurgle water out to clear the air.

im saying 60seconds but the best way is to have a 2nd person in the loft watching the water tank - they should see bubbles coming up from the feed pipe, once bubbles stop your job at the sink is done.

Bruthal

Slaacer wrote: »

thanks for your response. I think the water in the kitchen sink comes straight from the main which also feed the dishwasher and washing machine. Hence why I done the my test with the kitchen sink.

Basically what I did was to block the tap with a hand towel (water is absolutely freezing) and open the hot tab first then the cold hoping to push the airlock back into the tank.

Was that what you recommend ? did what I do use the pressure from the main ?

That will work alright for airlocks, but you may have a partly frozen pipe from the attic tank out to the hot water cylinder.

I had my mains feed into attic tank frozen and the tank then emptied today. I did the blocking of kitchen mixing tap and put on hot then cold to actually refill the attic tank with warm water, which thaw`d out the frozen feed into tank as well.

You could leave your attic door open now as well to help thaw out a possibly frozen pipe and to prevent any more freezing.

Bruthal

If the tank emptied previous to this during the week then you could have an airlock, but frozen pipes are happeing all over the place this week.

teamireland

Sparkpea wrote: »

do what u did but without the towel, u need to use your hand and hold it as tight as possible so no water escapes. open hot first, then open cold, try hold it for at least 60sec, turn off cold, then let go of hand leaving hot open to hopefully spurt and gurgle water out to clear the air.

im saying 60seconds but the best way is to have a 2nd person in the loft watching the water tank - they should see bubbles coming up from the feed pipe, once bubbles stop your job at the sink is done.

Thank you Sparkpea.Water went on xmas eve. cold water came back last night.Tried your technique to get rid of the air lock on the hot tap. worked like a dream.

dna_leri

teamireland wrote: »

Thank you Sparkpea.Water went on xmas eve. cold water came back last night.Tried your technique to get rid of the air lock on the hot tap. worked like a dream.

Worked for me as well. I am still without mains water but filled my tank with hose pipe from neighbours. When hot water did not come back, I tried technique above using mixer tap in bathroom: put hand over tap, turned on hot then moved mixer to half and half, held in place for about 1 min and it cleared the airlock.

Now all I need is something to thaw out mains, trying the hot water on the stop cock, but nothing yet.

Bruthal

dna_leri wrote: »

Worked for me as well. I am still without mains water but filled my tank with hose pipe from neighbours. When hot water did not come back, I tried technique above using mixer tap in bathroom: put hand over tap, turned on hot then moved mixer to half and half, held in place for about 1 min and it cleared the airlock.

Now all I need is something to thaw out mains, trying the hot water on the stop cock, but nothing yet.

Must of been luck so, as the only way the above method works is when the cold is the mains feed at sink in kitchen, it wont work using bathroom mixer in bathroom unless the cold in bathroom was a mains fed cold. I know you will say different because it seemed to work. But for a normal bathroom with hot and cold both fed via the attic tank, it can not work, so if it seemed to, its because the airlock cleared itself.

dna_leri

must be just a coincidence so, amazing after 4 hours, unless the airlock was not in the attic.

Sparkpea

robbie7730 wrote: »

Must of been luck so, as the only way the above method works is when the cold is the mains feed at sink in kitchen, it wont work using bathroom mixer in bathroom unless the cold in bathroom was a mains fed cold. I know you will say different because it seemed to work. But for a normal bathroom with hot and cold both fed via the attic tank, it can not work, so if it seemed to, its because the airlock cleared itself.

Sorry but that is complete rubbish, I understand what you're going to say about the 2 pressures being the same and fed from the same tank, height etc. but I assure you it works and it is not a coincidence. I have cleared airlocks time and time again in bathrooms on bathroom mixers and on basins, whether its even on a pair of basin taps or bath taps, I use a push fit shower type fitting like this

http://www.hardware-ironmongers.com/details.aspx?code=7701134

at the Y piece you disconnect the part going to the shower head so you're left with the suckers for hot and cold and the Y piece. needs an extra pair of hands, 1 holds the suckers onto the taps, the other holds the end of the Y and opens/closes hot/cold taps as needed, then lets go of the Y when you think its cleared and airlock removed.

Its easier to clear an airlock that is in the cold as most hot feeds are inch so therefore more force but eitherway you can still work it, water finds its own level so will push back up to the tank no problem at all. There is no pressure on the airlocked pipe as its airlocked so the other water flow forces it back up to the tank, hence why you see the bubbles.

bbam

Sparkpea wrote: »

Sorry but that is complete rubbish, I understand what you're going to say about the 2 pressures being the same and fed from the same tank, height etc. but I assure you it works and it is not a coincidence. I have cleared airlocks time and time again in bathrooms on bathroom mixers and on basins, whether its even on a pair of basin taps or bath taps, I use a push fit shower type fitting like this

http://www.hardware-ironmongers.com/details.aspx?code=7701134

at the Y piece you disconnect the part going to the shower head so you're left with the suckers for hot and cold and the Y piece. needs an extra pair of hands, 1 holds the suckers onto the taps, the other holds the end of the Y and opens/closes hot/cold taps as needed, then lets go of the Y when you think its cleared and airlock removed.

Its easier to clear an airlock that is in the cold as most hot feeds are inch so therefore more force but eitherway you can still work it, water finds its own level so will push back up to the tank no problem at all. There is no pressure on the airlocked pipe as its airlocked so the other water flow forces it back up to the tank, hence why you see the bubbles.

This definitely works as we did this at home for 30 years every time an airlock happened, it's success is not guarenteed as it will depend on the layout of the pipes, more bends and equard shapes will hold the airlock more and for some they must resort to higher pressure i.e mains feed water pressure.

Bruthal

Sparkpea wrote: »

Sorry but that is complete rubbish, I understand what you're going to say about the 2 pressures being the same and fed from the same tank, height etc. but I assure you it works and it is not a coincidence. I have cleared airlocks time and time again in bathrooms on bathroom mixers and on basins, whether its even on a pair of basin taps or bath taps, I use a push fit shower type fitting like this

http://www.hardware-ironmongers.com/details.aspx?code=7701134

at the Y piece you disconnect the part going to the shower head so you're left with the suckers for hot and cold and the Y piece. needs an extra pair of hands, 1 holds the suckers onto the taps, the other holds the end of the Y and opens/closes hot/cold taps as needed, then lets go of the Y when you think its cleared and airlock removed.

Its easier to clear an airlock that is in the cold as most hot feeds are inch so therefore more force but eitherway you can still work it, water finds its own level so will push back up to the tank no problem at all. There is no pressure on the airlocked pipe as its airlocked so the other water flow forces it back up to the tank, hence why you see the bubbles.

O right ted

Sparkpea

done another 2 tonight with the shower hose bit on bath taps, everyones hot water seems to be ok but its the cold airlocking, is it because the hot has an expansion pipe?

Bruthal

i better not say as i`d only be talkin rubbish, nothing new there:eek:

Slaacer

unfortunately it didn't work for me. At the end I gave up and called a plumber who sorted it out by closing the hot valve, unscrewing the bottom nut, open the valve again to poor the water in a bucket and that did it.

I only started this thread with a simple question and would like to thank those who responded to my issue as it gave me something else to try before giving up and calling a plumber.

Honestly fedup with these water issues...

Bruthal

Slaacer wrote: »

unfortunately it didn't work for me. At the end I gave up and called a plumber who sorted it out by closing the hot valve, unscrewing the bottom nut, open the valve again to poor the water in a bucket and that did it.

I only started this thread with a simple question and would like to thank those who responded to my issue as it gave me something else to try before giving up and calling a plumber.

Honestly fedup with these water issues...

Its a pain alright, only got mains water back today to house, although next doors never went so i connected our 2 outside taps together to get me going. A few others on the road have now done that, surprising how long it has stayed frozen into some houses.

Bruthal

Sparkpea wrote: »

done another 2 tonight with the shower hose bit on bath taps, everyones hot water seems to be ok but its the cold airlocking, is it because the hot has an expansion pipe?

It could be because the cold water is more active due to toilet flushing and the toilet cisterns re-filling regularly, and when the attic tank runs low the toilet cistern will still keep trying to fill, where as with the hot pipes only the taps are going to cause it but they will be turned off when not working. The expansion pipe probably does help the hot side alright.

Buford T Justice

I'd say its because the cold water has a straight drop from the tank to the appliances, whereas the hot has to drop to the Cylinder and rise again, and then drop to the appliances. Its probably less inclined to airlock. I'd say the demand would be greater on the cold as well in general.

Bruthal

Fingers McGee wrote: »

I'd say its because the cold water has a straight drop from the tank to the appliances, whereas the hot has to drop to the Cylinder and rise again, and then drop to the appliances. Its probably less inclined to airlock. I'd say the demand would be greater on the cold as well in general.

I have an airlock on the bath cold, it slows the water, i cleared it a few times down the years using mains into the bath cold tap. But the culprit is the cold pipe goes up from the bath to attic, then slopes slightly down as it goes over toward the tank before turning up to reach the tank. So the corner in pipe above where bath is is where the air gets trapped as its is a high spot, and it is these level runs where the air seems to get trappped or just where an elbow is coming up from a drop and then the pipe right angles to level.

And i think this would be the same regardless of hot or cold, because if the air was able to make it right down to the bottom of cylinder (which obviously it can) then it would of made it right down to the cold taps also if it was the cold water drop. Once the air is into the cylinder it can escape up the expansion pipe, but in a cold tap it would of then just come out the tap.

I still think the toilet cisterns add to it a lot, flush the toilet and it keeps drawing down water as attic tank empties until either the cistern is full or the attic tank cant supply any more water, where as with a tap people will turn it off when its not working right.
I could be talkin rubbish again of course, but at least this time im not in alcohol oblivion, which means if it is rubbish this time then it really is:D

Sparkpea

robbie7730 wrote: »

I have an airlock on the bath cold, it slows the water, i cleared it a few times down the years using mains into the bath cold tap. But the culprit is the cold pipe goes up from the bath to attic, then slopes slightly down as it goes over toward the tank before turning up to reach the tank. So the corner in pipe above where bath is is where the air gets trapped as its is a high spot, and it is these level runs where the air seems to get trappped or just where an elbow is coming up from a drop and then the pipe right angles to level.

I had the same problem with a new granny flat I plumbed, worked fine for 18 months then started to airlock all the time, I was checking the tank valve was open full, the tank didnt run dry etc. all the usual things. I know it was done in polyplumb and was up and down slightly in places at different levels and in the end changed an elbow to a tee and brought like an expansion pipe off it back to the tank. Not good practice really but it worked a treat and got them off my back. Obviously air gathering somewhere in the line from the tank -> where it dropped into hot press.

Bruthal

Sparkpea wrote: »

I had the same problem with a new granny flat I plumbed, worked fine for 18 months then started to airlock all the time, I was checking the tank valve was open full, the tank didnt run dry etc. all the usual things. I know it was done in polyplumb and was up and down slightly in places at different levels and in the end changed an elbow to a tee and brought like an expansion pipe off it back to the tank. Not good practice really but it worked a treat and got them off my back. Obviously air gathering somewhere in the line from the tank -> where it dropped into hot press.

Yes in my case i dont use the bath a lot so i never really bothered fixing it, cleared it with mains as i said but came back again about a year later, it just slows the cold tap flow so i just left it. Something else the amount of problems with water people are having this last week.

Sparkpea

would an automatic air vent have done the same thing? only ever used them on heating systems..

marymull

thanks for that advice..it worked very well and my hot water is back!

Bruthal

Sparkpea wrote: »

would an automatic air vent have done the same thing? only ever used them on heating systems..

I was thinking the exact same while actually posting my last post.

Buford T Justice

Someone else mentioned using automatic air vents too, but again, I've never used them on anything other than heating systems either.

I wonder......

Sparkpea

if someone tries it let us know :-) maybe u should test it robbie as urs isn't working properly. i've asked the same question to some other local plumbers and I get the same answers. its the first time I ever put a vent off the cold feed but that worked so I'm guessing the auto vent will too.

last june I did a tanked flogas change over to oil and sorting out the oil feed was a particular problem as client wanted the 550G bunded tank on the same base as the gas tank was. about 50m away from the house/boiler, under extensions and at a lower level to the house. was a 150kw warmflow HE boiler too. the existing gas pipe was black iron above ground at the tank and then underground 15mm copper which rose to a regulator and dropped again outside the back door of the house, then rise beside the boiler again - was a bit concerned about this airlocking too but didn't think an autovent with the oil would do the job so ended up with a bullnosed tea and a manual airvent on it. also had trouble with the tigerloop sucking from the tank, it would work then once the burner/oil pump cut off the oil would flow backwards towards the tank leaving too much of a pull to come through the tigerloop. was a bit stumpt and it was a big money job so didnt want to get done over. ended up putting a non return valve beside the tigerloop - worked a treat and got me out of the hole.

other thing about that job too was the flue - HE flues can only be brought up to a certain height?? this flue rose up through the house and was boarderline pushing the regs, got passed in the end but wouldnt have liked to change it to a 9" flue which would cost another small fortune for 6m.

Bruthal

It just slows my bath cold tap but it will do as is so probably wont bother doing anything, its an interesting one though. Cant see it not working.

Today parents hot and cold in bathroom completely stopped from air locks. Attic tank had emptied from low mains pressure but was full again when i arrived. I used the t90 shower to clear both hot and cold, something i`ve done 3 or 4 times before. Works very well. Just taped bit of tubing onto shower hose then onto tap, make sure tap is then open and then on with shower with its heating elements off.

Irish_Nomad

I want to pass on a novel way to get rid of an airlock.

I had no water upstairs a few days ago and didn't have a hose long enough to try creating a backflow from a tap connected to the main inflow. After searching on the internet I found this suggestion : hold a hoover nozzle up to one of the taps and switch it on to suck the water through. It worked in 5 seconds for me.

Bruthal

The only real problem maybe with the second vent on the cold pipe is it could draw air down this direction if the bath cold was on and toilets being filled as only so much water can flow from the tank and now there is an alternative for air to come down as the water level in the second vent which is on the feed pipe will drop as the water flows, same might happen with an auto vent which would be fitted lower than the surface level of the attic tank to work properly.

There may be a negative pressure inside the auto vent in this situation which would`t happen in the heating situation. Interesting one though.

Sparkpea

yeah robbie I'd love to know for sure why this was happening because there isn't a logical reason. I actually got 2 other plumbers to look over my work. It's easier to find a problem with someone else's work but your own.

Irish_Nomad: You can suck it through the tap with your mouth also. My dad would do that often but I prefer to opt for the other ways as it doesn't strain your neck