Disabled parking in The Park,Carrickmines

bungler

Hi all,

I went shopping in Carrickimnes with my girlfriend today in Carricmines. I wish to point out that we both have disabled family members.

The traffic was very heavy inside the retail park and i started noticing that every car in the disabled spaces had no permits on them.

As we walked by Woodies we saw a woman mid 40's and her teenage daughter pull into a disabled space. When she got out i said "do you know this is a disabled space?" she replied by saying "So" i stated that disabled people need these spaces and she explained that she could not get a space near the shops. We could clearly see spaces 200 meters away but she felt that a disabled person can park there.


This really get to me as i know what it is like to have a disabled person in my life. I cannot contact the management company but i just want to warn people with disabilities not to travel to the Park in Carricmines as it is a death trap and i refuse to support a development that do not monitor there spaces unlike many other retail outlets.

I just feel that issue like this are ignored because there is only a minority of people in this situation.

Just a quick poll would you have done the same as the lady above and parked in a disabled space?

Rant over.

dudara

Moved to Motors

If you don't complain to the management company, then there is no chance of the situation changing. The company that built that development was Park Developments.

dudara

Iwannahurl

Commiserations.

This is an endemic problem all over Ireland, and it's a reflection of a lamentable absence of civic responsibility. Blue Badge spaces are considered fair game if the alternative is that the able-bodied driver might have to walk a little bit. The underlying attitude is "my car, and my convenience, is much more important than your rights".

Unfortunately, official attitudes towards this problem seem to be that tackling it is not a priority and that disabled rights are contingent.

Parking without a Blue badge in a disabled parking bay ought to be a penalty point offence, in both public and private parking areas. You might find it enlightening if you make enquiries regarding why this is not the case.

Abuse of Blue Badge spaces on private property may be difficult to deal with, as I have formed the impression that the Gardai and Local Authorities regard such areas as being outside of their remit.

Unless shopping centres employ conscientious and assertive security personnel, you will find it difficult to have the problem dealt with on the spot. One Dunnes manager I spoke to said that when he challenged a Blue Badge cheat, he was told "do you want to keep your teeth?" I once challenged another such Obnoxious Parker, who was busy loading up his car with booze, and he drove at me with his car while I was holding my infant son in my arms.

That's what you're up against in this country.

Max Power1

No, theres never any excuse to park in a disabled space. Scum is too good a word to describe the lowlifes that do that. Get your fat arses out a little further from the door to accomodate those more in need of the designated space.

bungler

The bit where the Guards say its on private proprty annoys me cause they cant do anything to him for parking but if i smack him they'll have me in cuffs atriaght away.

Still cant beleive that there has never been a proper law brought in to give points to these parkers

Iwannahurl

bungler wrote: »

The bit where the Guards say its on private proprty annoys me cause they cant do anything to him for parking but if i smack him they'll have me in cuffs atriaght away.

Still cant beleive that there has never been a proper law brought in to give points to these parkers

A couple of years ago the National Disability Authority (a state agency) recommended the following:

Review the current disabled parking system, provide for a significant expansion of disabled parking bays, and apply penalty points for misuse of these bays.

What other statutory agency/agencies might have a role in issuing such penalty points, and why might they have not implemented such a measure?

L1011

The NDA can recommend all they like, penalty points are for traffic offences and can't be applied on private land, which that shopping centre is. Unfortunately, in this case.

Its usually the most able to walk that park in them from what I've seen. Or the least able to park, large cars thrown in arseways because the muppet behind the wheel would never get it in to a conventional sized space.

Cunning Alias

I used to work up there. People do it a lot around xmas and the bank holidays. The staff in the shops are too busy to do anything and the management company never did a thing.

I told a guy to move one quiet Sunday and I got the whole "Ahh but il only be a few minutes". When I pushed the issue he moved the car and then proceeded to have a go at my manager about me. He was made look a rite tit and stormed out of the shop

When things calm down, drop in on a quiet day and mention it to a few of the store managers. None of them want this happening but it is never brought to their attention. I worked customer service up there for years, so I would have been the one to hear about it.

Another thing about that place that pissed me off was when people would park on the path that leads to the road outside the shop. This exists ONLY for people to bring up their cars to collect large items. We had cones up around xmas and they would never last more than 30 mins before some ****er would move them. We talked about putting up a sign and getting a clamp, but the management didn't want the hassle.

So if the guards can't do anything because it's private property, does that mean that the 30kph limit on the way in can be ignored? (most people ignore it anyway)

Senna

There are two disabled spots outside my place of work and i have given up on trying to watch them. I've have encountered the following many times;

-Perfectly able man (or woman) get out of car, walk to door, i tell him its a disable spot and he says he is disabled. Do i call him a liar, is he genuinely disabled and needs the spot but just isn't evident to me? Do i question why their no disable badge?

-able person gets out of car, i state disable spot, he/she goes off head as disabled person in car. This one really annoys me, as i would think they would be grateful that someone is keeping an eye on disable spot for their benefit, but no, more often than not i get abuse.

-person has a disabled badge, but looks no way disabled.


Its a small business and i really cant afford to be confrontational with customers, but i have learned i'm dammed if i do and i'm dammed if i dont. Disabled stickers aren't a guarantee and i do look for them first (from about 8 meters away) so i can spot them easily.

Having said that, i do get people to move easily if they have no need or right to be there, quite often and there are plenty of other spaces so its not a huge problem.

Cookie_Monster

Carrickmines has far too many of them for a start.

That aside, no you should never park in them. But as long as they put them closest to the shops people will abuse them. Tesco in Ballybrack is another fine example, the quick "I'll park in it there, sure I'm only running in for a few cans"

Joe10000

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Carrickmines has far too many of them for a start.

I think this is a common problem that is devaluing the disabled spots and making ppl feel easier about parking there. For instance Tesco Westport has 14 disabled spots outside the door and they are all just used as short term parking.

Does 14 spots accurately reflect the demand ?? No chance , it's overkill.

GavRedKing

I clicked yes by mistake

I used to see it alot while work in Mahon Point, Cork. It used to get so busy at weekends that people used to park in the disabled spots and just act as if nothing was wrong, used to annoy me so much.

Red Alert

There are far too many disabled spaces in Carrickmines. It's an almost idiotic proportion.

Cunning Alias

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Tesco in Ballybrack is another fine example, the quick "I'll park in it there, sure I'm only running in for a few cans"

I was going to mention there too. It's a joke there any time of the year.

OP why not bring it up with the TD'd when they come door to door next year or send an email off to all the newspapers. It would seem like an issue any TD would be happy to get behind as it would show them doing something decent that the vast majority of the public would agree with.

Cunning Alias

Red Alert wrote: »

There are far too many disabled spaces in Carrickmines. It's an almost idiotic proportion.

Not the issue. Would you park in one because you think this?

There might seem like a lot when it is quiet, but when it's mental up there and even the underground carpark is filling up, it seems like there are not enough.

Is there a percentage that has to be reached? E.g. for every 50 spaces, one has to be disabled.

biko

Parking in a disabled space have never crossed my mind.
Just issue the parking wardens with claw hammers, should rectify the problem in a few days.

Reg'stoy

Does 14 spots accurately reflect the demand ?? No chance , it's overkill.

Your kidding me, too many spots ffs take their cars off them. Christ on a f***ing bike according to the last census roughly 8% of the population can be considered disabled (an old girlfriend was a badge holder) are you telling me Mayo has less, how many car parks reflect this percentage. Ah feck it make them shop on a tuesday morning between 9 and 11.

I just love the thinking behind the statement that because there's too many :mad: spaces it encourages non badge holders to park in them. It's selfishness that causes people to park in them.

Personally I couldn't care about having to walk (unaided thank God) a little bit further and I agree 1000% that some sort of point punishment be given for parking in a space provided to allow a fellow member of society to feel somewhat included by being able to do something as radical as shop.

As for them being too close to the entrance, well that statement just beggars belief. If while you were queuing at the checkout in these supermarkets Mr/Mrs 'I couldn't care less' stepped in front of you with a full trolley because they were in a hurry, would you just stand there looking at your shoes, I doubt any of us would let them away it because it affects us directly.

Pkiernan

Sids Not

Well i was in BB's Carrickmines having a coffee last week, heres what i saw...
A black Focus in the disabled spot...Woman gets out ,on her phone..after a few minutes a clamping van arrives, ..theres much pointing and arm waving...after about 20 mins,money exchanges hands, the clamp comes off and she reverses out...Only then do i see that theres a very old woman in the passenger seat....they drive off...couple of minutes later two "scangers" pop the boot on their bruised and battered red 406, put their Heitons bags in the back and head up towards TK Maxx....oh ,they're parked in a disabled spot too...i'm guessin that its a weight disability with one (or both) of them..obviously one car had a Blue badge and the other didnt...i actually felt sorry for the woman in the Focus after .....
Now i'm not sure of the legalities of using a badge if the occtpant/s are'nt present..clarify this someone maybe ?..but, from my own experience, knowing a disabled neighbour ,that they abuse their badge ALL the time, especially at this time of year...So if it comes down to conscience..i think these people with the badges need to look inside before they start giving out.....
I've never parked in one btw...i'd feel it'd be tempting faith....:o

Red Alert

I'm not saying I'd park in one because it's just wrong - however, I can see why people would be tempted to when there's just an overkill of them.

Sids Not

Red Alert wrote: »

I'm not saying I'd park in one because it's just wrong - however, I can see why people would be tempted to when there's just an overkill of them.

i'd much prefer to be able to walk just for the sake of a parking space near a door...Able-bodied people should'nt EVER be tempted to use them...pure laziness and ignorance..and that goes for the abusers of the badge too...

bungler

Red Alert wrote: »

I'm not saying I'd park in one because it's just wrong - however, I can see why people would be tempted to when there's just an overkill of them.

Bollox.

How is it overkill? Outside the shops such as woodies etc there is about 14-20 compared to about 1000 normal spaces.There is also another 3000 or 5000 spaces aswell

There is no excuse just because people think there is "overkill" these people are just kunts who are happy to let disabled people feel even more like a minority.

I got a call one day from my disabled father who was about to pull into a disabled space when a guy in a van flew into the space my father asked could he move and the guy walked over and kicked his wing mirror and called him lazy. I was about 4 cars behind my dad and got out of my car to speak with the guy. He was acting the hardman with my dad but when i confronted him and being a retired bodyguard he **** himself because i wasnt disabed. If the guards say they can do nothing im gonna burst someone next time they do it.

Anan1

bungler wrote: »

If the guards say they can do nothing im gonna burst someone next time they do it.

I was in complete agreement with you until I got to this bit.

Iwannahurl

bungler wrote: »

If the guards say they can do nothing im gonna burst someone next time they do it.

Anan1 wrote: »

I was in complete agreement with you until I got to this bit.

Fair enough, resorting to violence involves reducing yourself to their level and also sets you up for a possible criminal conviction. It's just not worth it.

However, you can't underestimate the sheer ignorance of these abusers of the disabled, and the anger and frustration caused by their anti-social behaviour.

Anan1

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Fair enough, resorting to violence involves reducing yourself to their level and also sets you up for a possible criminal conviction. It's just not worth it.

However, you can't underestimate the sheer ignorance of these abusers of the disabled, and the anger and frustration caused by their anti-social behaviour.

Below their level. Misusing a disabled space is pretty low, but assaulting someone is lower again.

bungler

Anan1 wrote: »

Below their level. Misusing a disabled space is pretty low, but assaulting someone is lower again.

You are missing the point. I am arguing the point that the Gurads say they CANNOT do anything because it is on private property and they cannot clamp or fine the person and i am saying what IF someone got a dig over abusing a disabled person how come all of a sudden they can then get involved.

I have no intention of assaulting anyone i mearly wanted to point the issue out.

muboop1

bungler wrote: »

You are missing the point. I am arguing the point that the Gurads say they CANNOT do anything because it is on private property and they cannot clamp or fine the person and i am saying what IF someone got a dig over abusing a disabled person how come all of a sudden they can then get involved.

I have no intention of assaulting anyone i mearly wanted to point the issue out.

Mate, Completely different classes. One is being an ignorant asshead. The other is being a danger to others and causing harm. Both are being scum. But anybody who swings digs over a parking space needs to be put down. To much **** can happen, fall hit head etc...

bungler

Red Alert wrote: »

There are far too many disabled spaces in Carrickmines. It's an almost idiotic proportion.

I take it maths wasnt your strong subject in school?

My.testicals

Sids Not wrote: »

Well i was in BB's Carrickmines having a coffee last week, heres what i saw...
A black Focus in the disabled spot...Woman gets out ,on her phone..after a few minutes a clamping van arrives, ..theres much pointing and arm waving...after about 20 mins,money exchanges hands, the clamp comes off and she reverses out...Only then do i see that theres a very old woman in the passenger seat....they drive off...couple of minutes later two "scangers" pop the boot on their bruised and battered red 406, put their Heitons bags in the back and head up towards TK Maxx....oh ,they're parked in a disabled spot too...i'm guessin that its a weight disability with one (or both) of them..obviously one car had a Blue badge and the other didnt...i actually felt sorry for the woman in the Focus after .....
Now i'm not sure of the legalities of using a badge if the occtpant/s are'nt present..clarify this someone maybe ?..but, from my own experience, knowing a disabled neighbour ,that they abuse their badge ALL the time, especially at this time of year...So if it comes down to conscience..i think these people with the badges need to look inside before they start giving out.....
I've never parked in one btw...i'd feel it'd be tempting faith....:o

legally they are supposed to display the blue badge with the picture of the person who is entitled to use the badge showing, but only the decent people who are really entitled to it do that.

it can be frustrating but you cannot prove that the person running to the car isnt entitled to use the badge

Knine

Ok so I will give my opinion. I have a blue badge for my child. I only use the disabled bay when I have my child with me.

However regularly there are no spaces for me. If its raining out or a busy period you can be guaranteed you won't get a space. I therefore can't get my child out of the car. Life is hard enough for us without abled bodied people using disabled bays.

Recently I went to the shopping centre and was moving into a disabled space when a guy took my space. He jumped out of his car, no blue badge and I challenged him saying I needed the space.

His Answer? F**k Off.

Thats no problem. I contacted Security and 15 minutes later a Result

He was clamped.:D

Eoin

I definitely wouldn't take the spot but I don't agree at all with penalty points being applied.

Iwannahurl wrote:

Parking without a Blue badge in a disabled parking bay ought to be a penalty point offence, in both public and private parking areas

No, it shouldn't. That's not an appropriate punishment for the offence.

Cunning Alias wrote:

Is there a percentage that has to be reached? E.g. for every 50 spaces, one has to be disabled.

There's no legal requirement for private car park operators to provide any disabled parking spots.

Cookie_Monster

eoin wrote: »

There's no legal requirement for private car park operators to provide any disabled parking spots.

so its basically just a marketing gimmick then on behalf of the shop/centre, just like the parent and child spaces?

If they do provide such spaces then is the enforcement of such similar to on street spaces allocated by the local CC?

Eoin

No, the enforcement is still up to the management of the parking company. From here.

Private car park operators are responsible for policing the use of designated disabled parking bays in their own car parks and cars parked illegally in these bays may be clamped. Fees for release will vary depending on the operator. Gardai and traffic wardens will not issue tickets for cars illegally parked in disabled parking spaces in a private car park.

Note that they do use the term "parked illegally". So maybe once they do provide a spot it is illegal (unlike the parent/child spots), but the enforcement is still up to the management company.

NewApproach

Should have keyed their car.

Eoin

No they shouldn't. No need to resort to scummy behaviour like that.

Cookie_Monster

NewApproach wrote: »

Should have keyed their car.

yeah, cos thats a grown up thing to do.. makes you no better than the lowlife parked there in the first place

bungler

I have went onto the parks's website and the only contact details is an email to which i have sent 3 emails and they have not once contacted me. There is no phone number to ring them. I have also asked the carpark attendent up there and he will only tell me to go onto the website.

I think its crazy that there is no other way of contacting them but i would love to find who is responsible for the carpark, follow them home to where they live and the next day park my car in their drive way for the day and see how they feel when they have no access to park there car. Before anyone tells me thats lowlife, i am not actually going to do it but would love to see their reaction.

I remember when Dunnes Stores in cornelcourt first decided to open 24 hours years ago about 100,000 people decided to go. i live across the road from it and when i came home that night my estate was full of cars everywhere as i was about to pull into my drive way there was a family getting out of a car parked in my driveway, i jumped out and asked what the hell he was doing and the guy said "Ah there's no where to park ill only be an hour or two" I mean some people take the piss a bit too much.

My.testicals

bungler wrote: »

I have went onto the parks's website and the only contact details is an email to which i have sent 3 emails and they have not once contacted me. There is no phone number to ring them. I have also asked the carpark attendent up there and he will only tell me to go onto the website.

I think its crazy that there is no other way of contacting them but i would love to find who is responsible for the carpark, follow them home to where they live and the next day park my car in their drive way for the day and see how they feel when they have no access to park there car. Before anyone tells me thats lowlife, i am not actually going to do it but would love to see their reaction.

look buddy i have every sympathy for you and your father not getting a space in the disabled area, i work as a clamper but not in the park.
i can tell you this i have no mercy for people who park in disabled bays and not display a blue badge, for me its one of the worst things any able bodied person could do. like someone else said its a fom of bullying and i cant stand bullies.... but you dont wanna be blaming the parking warden on the fact that you cant get a space cause if you followed me home and parked your car in my garden you would be minus 1 car... just saying

MistyCheese

bungler wrote: »

i would love to find who is responsible for the carpark, follow them home to where they live and the next day park my car in their drive way for the day and see how they feel when they have no access to park there car. Before anyone tells me thats lowlife, i am not actually going to do it but would love to see their reaction.

No, I completely understand. Just yesterday I was out for a meal and the sauce was a little too mild for my taste. So I might follow the waiter home and pour sauce all over him. Ha! Now, see how you like it, Mr. Waiter who was only doing thier job! I bet after that he'll know not to serve me mild sauce again.

bungler

I think both f you picked me up wrong. I never said the clamper or parking attendent i said the person who is responsible ie the person in the office like the managing agent who chooses not to call me back and to ignore any complaints and just couldnt be bothered. I never said i would take it out on the attendent becuase i know he has no power to do anything.

MistyCheese

So I should follow the chef home then, not the waiter? Thank you, I almost made a huge mistake

Bigcheeze

Knine wrote: »

Ok so I will give my opinion. I have a blue badge for my child. I only use the disabled bay when I have my child with me.

However regularly there are no spaces for me. If its raining out or a busy period you can be guaranteed you won't get a space. I therefore can't get my child out of the car. Life is hard enough for us without abled bodied people using disabled bays.

Recently I went to the shopping centre and was moving into a disabled space when a guy took my space. He jumped out of his car, no blue badge and I challenged him saying I needed the space.

His Answer? F**k Off.

Thats no problem. I contacted Security and 15 minutes later a Result

He was clamped.:D

If all the disabled spaces are taken by cars without a badge, I would park behind the offending cars and go about your business. If they get back before you and can't move they might start to appreciate what it's like to have a disability.

bungler

MistyCheese wrote: »

So I should follow the chef home then, not the waiter? Thank you, I almost made a huge mistake

Yes Misty do that cause i forgot that voicing my opinions about my disabled father falling because an able bodied person parked in a disabled space and wouldnt move is the same as your sauce great comparison

NewApproach

eoin wrote: »

No they shouldn't. No need to resort to scummy behaviour like that.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

yeah, cos thats a grown up thing to do.. makes you no better than the lowlife parked there in the first place

:rolleyes:

I didn't think a smilie was necessary, obviously I was mistaken

91011

Park Developments are the developers, savills are the property managers, http://www.savills.ie/case-studies/property-management-case-studies/carrickmines-case-study.aspx

There's only one thing worse than an abled bodied person using a disabled parking space, thats an abled bodied person who has managed to snag blue badge but is fully mobile and absolutley abuses the badge to the fullest extent.

Though I believe the current system is changing.

Bigcheeze

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

so its basically just a marketing gimmick then on behalf of the shop/centre, just like the parent and child spaces?

Disabled spaces are probably a condition of the planning permission.

Providing wide spaces for disabled people that are closer to the destination is hardly a bloody marketing gimmick! It's a civilised thing to do.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

If they do provide such spaces then is the enforcement of such similar to on street spaces allocated by the local CC?

Enforcement is whatever the shop feels like doing, be it clamping, warning stickers or nothing at all.

bungler

91011 wrote: »

Park Developments are the developers, savills are the property managers, http://www.savills.ie/case-studies/property-management-case-studies/carrickmines-case-study.aspx

There's only one thing worse than an abled bodied person using a disabled parking space, thats an abled bodied person who has managed to snag blue badge but is fully mobile and absolutley abuses the badge to the fullest extent.

Though I believe the current system is changing.

Yes i agree and would love to see what changes will be brought in

MistyCheese

bungler wrote: »

Yes Misty do that cause i forgot that voicing my opinions about my disabled father falling because an able bodied person parked in a disabled space and wouldnt move is the same as your sauce great comparison

You're right, it's best to keep complaining on the Internet. That'll change everything.

bungler

MistyCheese wrote: »

You're right, it's best to keep complaining on the Internet. That'll change everything.

After searching The parks website and not getting a phone number or details by complaining on the internet 91011 has posted that Savilles are the agent and i have not got a number for the senior managing agent who is calling me on Monday so thankfully complaining on the internet has worked

ironclaw

Have to agree its dispicable to park in a disabled spot if you don't need it.

However, here's a flip-side. If your with someone that has a disabled pass should you park in a disabled spot IF that person doesn't require it because of your presence?

bungler

ironclaw wrote: »

Have to agree its dispicable to park in a disabled spot if you don't need it.

However, here's a flip-side. If your with someone that has a disabled pass should you park in a disabled spot IF that person doesn't require it because of your presence?

I agree, when my father is with me and i need to get something for me ill park in a normal space and run over to the shops, the disbaled space should only be used by a disabled person who wishes to use the facility