Mc Coy / Fehily

Greensout

Mc Coy to ride Kauto..... Fehily desperately unlucky to not recover and need an opp or Nicholls not trust him enough and want to get AP if he can????..... This is the first weve heard od Fehily needing an op after what 4 weeks!!

fr wishy washy

Don't think he's been 100% since that fall so he's probably right,not sure AP McCoy and Kauto Star are a match made in heaven,I think the horse prefers a more passive ride these days.

Greensout

fr wishy washy wrote: »

Don't think he's been 100% since that fall so he's probably right,not sure AP McCoy and Kauto Star are a match made in heaven,I think the horse prefers a more passive ride these days.

True bout mc coy and kauto.. but u not think it smells a bit that fehily was constantly saying he will be ok and that everything is fine and all of a sudden nicholls tells us fehily is not ok and he is gettin Mc Coy all a bit to tidy like in real time he would have told us fehily was not lookin good and mightnt make if a while ago and now reports getting worse.. Plus now im not going here but im sure some people are going to go here and i want my position posted. Could they have been putting fehily up to lenghten odds slightly.. Dont get me wrong Fehily is a great jockey but hes no AP... i dont think this is an agenda or issue but i kow some people are going to take up on it.

fr wishy washy

Greensout wrote: »

.. Plus now im not going here but im sure some people are going to go here and i want my position posted. Could they have been putting fehily up to lenghten odds slightly.. Dont get me wrong Fehily is a great jockey but hes no AP... i dont think this is an agenda or issue but i kow some people are going to take up on it.

I don't think so as I'd say MC Coy had a job to get off Albertas Run,I don't think lengthening the odds comes into it with these particular connections.

Greensout

Nicholls told BBC Radio Five Live: ``I was disappointed for Noel, I didn't think he was particularly fit yesterday and I wasn't terribly surprised.

Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/mccoy-lands-star-ride-in-king-george-486689.html#ixzz18skR9gxH





Sounds a bit like nicholls was disappointed yesterday and perhaps fhily was under pressure to not ride kauto.. U can imagine the conversation between him and nicholls if he wasnt happy with rides horses got yesterday from noel.

NaiveMelodies

I think Fehily is genuinely unfit to race but if i was to be pessimistic about it....

First ever horse racing related winner of BBC sports personality of the year teamed up with one of the best horses of our generation winning a 5th King George..
Would be some story and what a way it would be to finish up the year in what are difficult times for the industry..


And also with Nicholls going for AP,with concerns having been raised in the past about whether the jockey will suit the horse, Kauto must be in top shape.. get on..

Big Daddy Cool

i'm sure kauto star will probably win the race, but the slight negative for me anyway is McCoy, i feel the horse likes to be patiently ridden and do his own thing, and McCoy's style just might'nt suit the horse, feel timmy murphy would have suited him better, but like i said he'll probably still win.

RichieLawlor

Your people are insane. AP is probably the greatest Jockey of all time, he can ride any horse and do it well.

What in the world are you lot on about

meriwether

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Your people are insane. AP is probably the greatest Jockey of all time, he can ride any horse and do it well.

What in the world are you lot on about

This.

Sometimes its all that simple.

minty16

Some muppets on here.

fr wishy washy

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Your people are insane. AP is probably the greatest Jockey of all time, he can ride any horse and do it well.

What in the world are you lot on about

Take off your rose coloured specs,how could you possibly think he could suit
any/every horse the way he rides,I'd take Timmy Murphy or Paul Townend on this particular horse in this particular race ahead of him,why do you think Ap only got the ride by default?

RichieLawlor

fr wishy washy wrote: »

Take off your rose coloured specs,how could you possibly think he could suit
any/every horse the way he rides,I'd take Timmy Murphy or Paul Townend on this particular horse in this particular race ahead of him,why do you think Ap only got the ride by default?

Lol, you people are hilarious.

Tony McCoy can ride a horse anyway and style.

Could you please fill me in in what his 'one dimensional' riding style is. What do you mean by 'the way he rides'.

fr wishy washy

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Lol, you people are hilarious.

Tony McCoy can ride a horse anyway and style.

Could you please fill me in in what his 'one dimensional' riding style is. What do you mean by 'the way he rides'.

More often than not he's way too aggressive on horses and has left his mark on many a horse,his all guns blazing stuff doesn't suit all horses,I'll say it again Richie,he was BEHIND Noel Fehily in the pecking order in the connections eyes.

Before this gets any worse,I think AP is a great jockey but like everybody he has his faults.

RichieLawlor

fr wishy washy wrote: »

More often than not he's way too aggressive on horses and has left his mark on many a horse,his all guns blazing stuff doesn't suit all horses,I'll say it again Richie,he was BEHIND Noel Fehily in the pecking order in the connections eyes.

Before this gets any worse,I think AP is a great jockey but like everybody he has his faults.

Your wrong, completely wrong.

McCoy is not an aggressive jockey. He tries as hard as he can to win and to get everything from his mount, if only more jockeys were like that, AP doesn't ride that many top class horses.

If a horse needs to front run, AP can do that, if a horse needs to be buried in the pack, he can do that, if a horse needs to be switched off out the back, he can do that. If a horse needs cajoling along or carried along he can do either.

He can ride a horse any way he needs to and better than most aswell. He is the complete jockey.

He was not behind Noel Fehily in any pecking order. Nicholls needed someone to sub for Ruby and if AP was available he would 100% have got the gig. He wasn't and Fehily stepped in.

fr wishy washy

RichieLawlor wrote: »

He was not behind Noel Fehily in any pecking order. Nicholls needed someone to sub for Ruby and if AP was available he would 100% have got the gig. He wasn't and Fehily stepped in.

Richie,Master Minded,same connections-Fehily rode its last 2 races with MCCoy on Albertas Run (because he wasn't asked to ride M M) in the Ascot race whom MCCoy has convienientley got off (Albertas Run to ride K S at Kempton) so I would think Fehily was ahead of MCCoy either way you look at it.

Feel free to answer me and get the "last word" on it but I think you have tunnel
vision where McCoy is concerned.

Have a good Christmas

RichieLawlor

fr wishy washy wrote: »

Richie,Master Minded,same connections-Fehily rode its last 2 races with MCCoy on Albertas Run (because he wasn't asked to ride M M) in the Ascot race whom MCCoy has convienientley got off (Albertas Run to ride K S at Kempton) so I would think Fehily was ahead of MCCoy either way you look at it.

Feel free to answer me and get the "last word" on it but I think you have tunnel
vision where McCoy is concerned.

Have a good Christmas

Sigh, McCoy is attached to the Jonjo stable where Albertas run is based.

Nicholls retained Fehily to ride all his horses in Rubys absence.

It's well known that Clive Smith wanted AP (similar to the last time Ruby was injured Sam Thomas was in there and MCCoy was used aswell) and was convinced to let Fehily ride by PFN.

Also well known that AP was keeping the ride on Big Bucks in last weeks cancelled Long Walk.

fr wishy washy

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Sigh, McCoy is attached to the Jonjo stable where Albertas run is based.

Do you not think I knew that Richie like ffs?,Albertas Run is running in the same race as Kauto Star at Kempton yet MCCoy is riding K S only because Fehily is injured.

You seem to have a major problem with the fact that MCCoy was not going to ride the horse until Fehily stood himself down-that is a fact not conjecture.

There was no need to offer the ride to Fehily in the first place if it was that simple for MCCoy (which he seems to do at will)to get off Albertas Run or whatever the JJ'O Neil selected was.

I reiterate,MCCoy is a great jockey but is not suited to everything that's running out there-how could he be?

P.S. Big Bucks would be an ideal mount for AP MCCoy so I could see why he would keep the ride.

RichieLawlor

fr wishy washy wrote: »

Do you not think I knew that Richie like ffs?,Albertas Run is running in the same race as Kauto Star at Kempton yet MCCoy is riding K S only because Fehily is injured.

You seem to have a major problem with the fact that MCCoy was not going to ride the horse until Fehily stood himself down-that is a fact not conjecture.


P.S. Big Bucks would be an ideal mount for AP MCCoy so I could see why he would keep the ride.

I'm not arguing about whether McCoy should or should not be riding him.

I have a problem with the ridiculous comments that MCCoy is not suited to the horse or its a negative that he is riding.

That's laughable.

Why is Big Bucks more suited to AP in your opinion

fr wishy washy

RichieLawlor wrote: »

I'm not arguing about whether McCoy should or should not be riding him.

I have a problem with the ridiculous comments that MCCoy is not suited to the horse or its a negative that he is riding.

That's laughable.

Why is Big Bucks more suited to AP in your opinion

It's not a negative that he's on board it's just someone else was preferred in this instance,Re-Big Bucks,he can be very lazy mid race and AP McCoy would be just the person to "persuade" him to put his best foot forward

There is no way MCCoy could have ridden all those winners without being a great jockey and at this stage we're dancing on the head of a pin.

RichieLawlor

fr wishy washy wrote: »

It's not a negative that he's on board it's just someone else was preferred in this instance,Re-Big Bucks,he can be very lazy mid race and AP McCoy would be just the person to "persuade" him to put his best foot forward

There is no way MCCoy could have ridden all those winners without being a great jockey and at this stage we're dancing on the head of a pin.

No were not. You said earlier McCoy would not be suited to Kauto Star.

That is total and utter bull****.

I'm done with this

minty16

A jockey is a jockey. For some one to say a jockey is not suited to a horse due to an aggressive riding style is simply rediculous. McCoy is not going to batter the horse unless he has to. ? Laughable.

Greensout

RichieLawlor wrote: »

I'm not arguing about whether McCoy should or should not be riding him.

I have a problem with the ridiculous comments that MCCoy is not suited to the horse or its a negative that he is riding.

That's laughable.

Why is Big Bucks more suited to AP in your opinion

Richie you have no idea what your talking Mc Coy is an aggressive rider who likes to pick his horses up and make them travel he likes to fire them at fences he likes to be in charge and make them do things his way, He is not wrong for this and i am not suggesting that he is not able to do anything else but this but it is his natural styla and approach(more often than not you will see mc coy bang up with the pace). T Murphy / R walsh are more passive riders they sit quite on a horse let them relax and then in the last mile or so pick them up to go on they try to get the horse relaxed and into a rythem they do not pick the horses up to make them jump they sit quite and still there style to works and it is another approach to doing the job. ( more often than not you will find murphy/walsh getting a bit of cover and dropping in), Iam not saying murphy/walsh are not able to ride like Mc Coy if needs be but this is there favoured style . Take barry Geraghty he is a mid way style he lets and gets horses to relax and switch off but going down the back the last time he will pick horses up and make them jump to get them into position. and there is noone stronger in a finish.
All these styles suit different horses some horses like to switch off and relax and need to be encouraged and conjoled along other horses thrive on hardship and like to be right in the line of fire jumping each and every obstacle like it is the last. Horses have different styles and jockeys have different styles and they need to be matched up especially at the highest level where every fraction counts.

If you cannot understand this concept or idea then theres nothing else can be done for you.

fr wishy washy

minty16 wrote: »

A jockey is a jockey. For some one to say a jockey is not suited to a horse due to an aggressive riding style is simply rediculous. McCoy is not going to batter the horse unless he has to. ? Laughable.

Denman.

minty16

Greensout wrote: »

Richie you have no idea what your talking Mc Coy is an aggressive rider who likes to pick his horses up and make them travel he likes to fire them at fences he likes to be in charge and make them do things his way, He is not wrong for this and i am not suggesting that he is not able to do anything else but this but it is his natural styla and approach(more often than not you will see mc coy bang up with the pace). T Murphy / R walsh are more passive riders they sit quite on a horse let them relax and then in the last mile or so pick them up to go on they try to get the horse relaxed and into a rythem they do not pick the horses up to make them jump they sit quite and still there style to works and it is another approach to doing the job. ( more often than not you will find murphy/walsh getting a bit of cover and dropping in), Iam not saying murphy/walsh are not able to ride like Mc Coy if needs be but this is there favoured style . Take barry Geraghty he is a mid way style he lets and gets horses to relax and switch off but going down the back the last time he will pick horses up and make them jump to get them into position. and there is noone stronger in a finish.
All these styles suit different horses some horses like to switch off and relax and need to be encouraged and conjoled along other horses thrive on hardship and like to be right in the line of fire jumping each and every obstacle like it is the last. Horses have different styles and jockeys have different styles and they need to be matched up especially at the highest level where every fraction counts.

If you cannot understand this concept or idea then theres nothing else can be done for you.

What TRIPE! A jockey wont ride the same way all the time, they will ride to suit a horse. I cant believe I'm reading some of this ****e on a Horse Racing forum.

fr wishy washy

RichieLawlor wrote: »

No were not. You said earlier McCoy would not be suited to Kauto Star.

That is total and utter bull****.

I'm done with this

Richie,with all due respect,that smacks of your toys coming out of the pram.
You cannot accept that others might not agree with you about AP so you think it's total and utter bull****.

Can we not just agree to disagree?

minty16

fr wishy washy wrote: »

Denman.

Sorry how many times has AP rode Denman ?

Greensout

minty16 wrote: »

What TRIPE! A jockey wont ride the same way all the time, they will ride to suit a horse. I cant believe I'm reading some of this ****e on a Horse Racing forum.

no and i eluded to this but they will set patterns and trends they will ride in a certain manner ie revert to type in most cases.....


EG1 are you telling me lets take John Cullen and Paul Townend have the same style? ( not the same way of sitting on a horse cause we all know townend is 100 times more stylist than cullen).

EG2 are you telling me Mc Coy and Walsh have the same style or way of riding?




Solution . No on both counts although Mc Coy and John Cullen Have the same style and way of riding and Paul townend and Ruby walsh have the same style of riding.




Mc Coy eludes to this fact in his autobiography... He says about the job vacancy in Martin pipes that he didnt thik he had a chance of getting it because he was not a pipe jockey he did not think his style would suit pipe.


ou are basing your judgement of jockeys on there ability in the home straight you are not taking into account the whole race

minty16

Greensout wrote: »

no and i eluded to this but they will set patterns and trends they will ride in a certain manner ie revert to type in most cases.....


EG1 are you telling me lets take John Cullen and Paul Townend have the same style? ( not the same way of sitting on a horse cause we all know townend is 100 times more stylist than cullen).

EG2 are you telling me Mc Coy and Walsh have the same style or way of riding?




Solution . No on both counts although Mc Coy and John Cullen Have the same style and way of riding and Paul townend and Ruby walsh have the same style of riding.




Mc Coy eludes to this fact in his autobiography... He says about the job vacancy in Martin pipes that he didnt thik he had a chance of getting it because he was not a pipe jockey he did not think his style would suit pipe.


ou are basing your judgement of jockeys on there ability in the home straight you are not taking into account the whole race

1/. Disagree. Are you telling me you dont see AP 'sitting on a horse down the back' or whatever way you put it ? If you say no you're even more deluded. Look at his ride on Binocular in the Champion for godsake. Your comment about there being no one better than BG in a finish is absolutely laughable too.

2/. I dont think John Cullen is a fair example. I think the argument can be used for flat jockeys but not for NH. Have to go back for the rest later.

Greensout

minty16 wrote: »

1/. Disagree. Are you telling me you dont see AP 'sitting on a horse down the back' or whatever way you put it ? If you say no you're even more deluded. Look at his ride on Binocular in the Champion for godsake. Your comment about there being no one better than BG in a finish is absolutely laughable too.

2/. I dont think John Cullen is a fair example. I think the argument can be used for flat jockeys but not for NH. Have to go back for the rest later.

http://www.goracing.ie/Content/HRI/hrivideos.aspx?id=11612

with ur last statement you just lost all credibility ... happy christmas and UNLUCKY.

fr wishy washy

minty16 wrote: »

Sorry how many times has AP rode Denman ?

3 times in 9 weeks this year,didn't win any of them.

yaboya1

Greensout wrote: »

no and i eluded to this but they will set patterns and trends they will ride in a certain manner ie revert to type in most cases.....


EG1 are you telling me lets take John Cullen and Paul Townend have the same style? ( not the same way of sitting on a horse cause we all know townend is 100 times more stylist than cullen).

EG2 are you telling me Mc Coy and Walsh have the same style or way of riding?




Solution . No on both counts although Mc Coy and John Cullen Have the same style and way of riding and Paul townend and Ruby walsh have the same style of riding.




Mc Coy eludes to this fact in his autobiography... He says about the job vacancy in Martin pipes that he didnt thik he had a chance of getting it because he was not a pipe jockey he did not think his style would suit pipe.


ou are basing your judgement of jockeys on there ability in the home straight you are not taking into account the whole race

You sure you're not mixing his autobiography up with Timmy Murphy's??

minty16

Greensout wrote: »

http://www.goracing.ie/Content/HRI/hrivideos.aspx?id=11612

with ur last statement you just lost all credibility ... happy christmas and UNLUCKY.

Was working. The reason I say that about flat jockey's is that it is a much more precise art being a flat jockey. FACT. I'm a big national hunt man though.

Obviously jockey's styles are not going to be the exact same. Some, like Carberry like to win in 'style' as you say but if a horse needs cover/to lead whatever then they are going to adapt there tactics. If any jockey cant ride to instructions then they should not be a professional.

You lost all face when you said that there was 'noone better' in a finish than Barry Geraghty. Oh god almighty are you serious ?

Am i basing my opinion on a home straight? Yes that's what I'm doing . Oh sorry, McCoy can only ride rag horses who need a battering, and Geraghty is some sort of genius who can do it all

Why are you posting videos of John Cullen ?

At the end of the day you need to realise that bar exceptional moments in National Hunt cases, it's the horse that wins the race, not the jockey. A jockey has to ride a horse the way he wants to be ridden and all top jockeys can/should be able to do this. A jockey doesnt say to a horse, oh mate i'm a stylish rider im going to sit easy on you and produce you late.

Do you realise how ridiculous your first post is? Your talking about jockeys saying this is what they do, that is what they do.. They don't have a 'set' way of riding. ''ake barry Geraghty he is a mid way style he lets and gets horses to relax and switch off but going down the back the last time he will pick horses up and make them jump to get them into position.
No he ****ing doesn't you idiot. Maybe he will do this if thats what the horse wants, he wont be doing it if he's riding the sawyer or rosie all over or something will he ? No. You're wrong. so go home and have a **** to barry caressing his horses.

fr wishy washy

OTT in the extreme ^^^^^

minty16

apologies.

convert

Ok, let's take a deep breath before posting.... And keep things calm and collected

Nulty

fr wishy washy wrote: »

3 times in 9 weeks this year,didn't win any of them.

There isn't a human being in existence - past or present - that would have got Denman any closer to winning at Punchestown than AP did.

He gave Denman a clean ride in the Gold Cup. He wasn't as good as Imperial Commander on the day.

fr wishy washy

Nulty wrote: »

There isn't a human being in existence - past or present - that would have got Denman any closer to winning at Punchestown than AP did.
.

I beg to disagree-R Walsh :pac:

Nulty

fr wishy washy wrote: »

I beg to disagree-R Walsh :pac:

No chance. The horse was unsteerable. No one would have got closer.

minty16

Nulty wrote: »

There isn't a human being in existence - past or present - that would have got Denman any closer to winning at Punchestown than AP did.

He gave Denman a clean ride in the Gold Cup. He wasn't as good as Imperial Commander on the day.

What he said.

RichieLawlor

fr wishy washy wrote: »

I beg to disagree-R Walsh :pac:

Are you serious. With this comment you just devalued everything you said above in our argument about Fehily/McCoy and AP riding style.

You actually haven't a clue.

Do you watch racing at all. Denman didn't want to go right handed, 10 jockeys together could not have made him turn right when he didn't want to.

fr wishy washy

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Are you serious. With this comment you just devalued everything you said above in our argument about Fehily/McCoy and AP riding style.

You actually haven't a clue.

Do you watch racing at all. Denman didn't want to go right handed, 10 jockeys together could not have made him turn right when he didn't want to.

Jesus Richie,lighten up ffs and let the air out of your head,the smilie after the comment didn't even give you a slight hint that it might be a light hearted answer?

You're just looking for something to discredit my arguments and your post above looks like desperation and is totally pathetic.

mdwexford

Not a lot of Christmas spirit in this thread. :pac:

Greensout

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Are you serious. With this comment you just devalued everything you said above in our argument about Fehily/McCoy and AP riding style.

You actually haven't a clue.

Do you watch racing at all. Denman didn't want to go right handed, 10 jockeys together could not have made him turn right when he didn't want to.

i thik 10 would have managed it now tbh

Nulty

Greensout wrote: »

i thik 10 would have managed it now tbh

Could he carry ten jockeys around Punchestown though?

Juwwi

Nulty wrote: »

Could he carry ten jockeys around Punchestown though?

I'd say a tank could carry 10 men but not 100% sure.

Maybe we should start a thread.

"How many Jockeys could Denman carry"